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NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

Russia's Putin signals battle for Opel not over

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Russia's Putin signals battle for Opel not over

NOVEMBER 4, 2009 14:01 CET

MOSCOW (Reuters) -- Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin hinted the battle for carmaker Opel was not over, saying it was the trust overseeing Opel, not the board of General Motors Co., its parent, that should decide any further steps.

GM opted on Tuesday to keep its European arm, which includes Opel and UK sister brand Vauxhall, after months of negotiations to sell it to a Canadian-Russian consortium of Magna International Inc. and Sberbank.

The Russian government and the Kremlin have repeatedly said the sale of Opel to a Russian-backed group would show the readiness of U.S. President Barack Obama to boost economic ties with Russia and reset political relations with Moscow.

"It is well known that GM has earlier transferred the management of its European division to a trust, which has cleared the deal, and all further steps should be de facto decided by the trust," spokesman Dmitry Peskov quoted Putin as saying.

"Therefore the GM board decision is surprising," he said adding that Magna and Sberbank would make a legal analysis of the situation.

"The Russian government had been ready to share risks including financial risks to reduce pressure on the German government and encourage the deal because the consortium planned to invest in the Russian car industry," he added.

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Why are we in such a f'ing hurry to hand over our technologies to backwards countries like China and Russia? It has taken 100 years for Detroit to get where it has (for better or worse), it's bad enough Toyota and Honda got a free ride (by Ford/Chevy dealers buying Toyopet and Honda franchises for a song in the '70s, then teaching Japan how to market and sell in North America for FREE), but why would we allow potential enemies to accelerate 100 years in only a few?

We are just so blinded by greed, we cannot see the forest for the trees! Let China and Russia trade with each other.

Oh, that's right: THEY DON'T TRUST EACH OTHER.

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Why are we in such a f'ing hurry to hand over our technologies to backwards countries like China and Russia? It has taken 100 years for Detroit to get where it has (for better or worse), it's bad enough Toyota and Honda got a free ride (by Ford/Chevy dealers buying Toyopet and Honda franchises for a song in the '70s, then teaching Japan how to market and sell in North America for FREE), but why would we allow potential enemies to accelerate 100 years in only a few?

We are just so blinded by greed, we cannot see the forest for the trees! Let China and Russia trade with each other.

Oh, that's right: THEY DON'T TRUST EACH OTHER.

In the case of Japan, we may have helped their economy after WW2, but now they are firmly on our side, and are not potential enemies, unlike China and Russia(Though I don't think their would be any full scale war between either, all the sides know the stakes involed). Also, a side benefit to having great trading relations between 2 countries, is that country will be less likely to wage war with you, because doing so could devestate their economy.

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In the case of Japan, we may have helped their economy after WW2, but now they are firmly on our side, and are not potential enemies, unlike China and Russia(Though I don't think their would be any full scale war between either, all the sides know the stakes involed). Also, a side benefit to having great trading relations between 2 countries, is that country will be less likely to wage war with you, because doing so could devestate their economy.

Fact: China has 1.2 billion people.

Fact: It's middle class is now larger than that of the United States population.

Fact: China graduates more engineers every year than does the United States.

Fact: China and Japan are only a few hundred kilometers apart.

There are more than one way to wage a war. Ask Zenith, Electrohome, RCA or Admiral. Japan was the dress rehearsal. China will end up owning North America and will be our landlord - without firing a shot! How many billions does the U.S. spend stationing its own troops in Korea and Japan as the bastion of democracy? Hmm, maybe that money could have been spent in bolstering technology here, or Medicare, no? Why wouldn't Japan be 'friendly' with you guys? You're the biggest patsies they've ever met!!!

The U.S. arrogantly assumes that since a) everyone in the world wants to be like them and b) they have the biggest economy in the world, they can elevate Brazil, China and India SIMULTANEOUSLY to their standard of living, like they did in the '50s with vanquished Japan and Germany.

First off, Brazil hates the States and they have been cozying up the the Chinese for years (food, mineral wealth). Secondly, China only has to acheive 25% parity per capita with the U.S. to surpass it in GDP. Thirdly, the labor pool in China, India and Brazil is fantastically enormous! How will its citizens ever attain 'our' standard of living - and if they do, God help mother Earth because we just don't have the resources to had 50% of the world's population consume what we do in a given day! Mark my words, a clash of civilzations is coming.

The U.S. has lost the ability to out-manufacture any future enemies - the REAL reason it won WWII over the Axis powers. Yes, yes, I love the theory that China would never invade the U.S. because they need the American market for to sell its goods, but that day is fast disappearing. China's own consumer market will absorb any manufacturing capacity that it has. And with all our manufacturing over there, how the hell do you imagine we could build enough tanks, planes or weapons to defend ourselves, let alone meet China head to head in east Africa? China is going to have a voracious appetite for materials. For now, it is content spending OUR money buying up companies, assets and property in Brazil, Canada, East Africa - and even the States. For now.

I have great faith in the ingenuity of America, but I fear by the time the people wake up and see what has happened it will be too late. If not already.

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Fact: China graduates more engineers every year than does the United States.

Fact:Chinese, and many other Asian trained engineers are not the same as western trained engineers. They are mostly equivalent to technicians

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Fact: China has 1.2 billion people.

Fact: It's middle class is now larger than that of the United States population.

Fact: China graduates more engineers every year than does the United States.

Fact: China and Japan are only a few hundred kilometers apart.

You forgot one fact. Regardless of what the US does, the Chinese economy is going to keep growing. And I believe it's 1.6 billion people now. Either our companies get a part of that growth, or they don't. We put up more trade barriers, and they won't get a part of that growth, and we WILL be the enemy.

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Fact:Chinese, and many other Asian trained engineers are not the same as western trained engineers. They are mostly equivalent to technicians

1.2 billion is 4 times the population of the United States. Nearly double the population of the US and Europe. Therefore, they could have half as many engineers per capita and still be ahead of us, technologically speaking. The laws of very big numbers is scary.

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You forgot one fact. Regardless of what the US does, the Chinese economy is going to keep growing. And I believe it's 1.6 billion people now. Either our companies get a part of that growth, or they don't. We put up more trade barriers, and they won't get a part of that growth, and we WILL be the enemy.

The miraculous growth of China is only the result of one thing: when Mao died and the Chinese opened their doors (peeking through Hong Kong), they have used the West's technology. Without our technology, they would still all be rice farmers. Japan learned that 170 years ago when Perry arrived in Edo Bay. It took China 150 years to figure that out (not terribly smart, those Chinese!) As I said, in our greed and total disdain for the future, Western companies are falling all over themselves to form 'partnerships' (because now the Chinese are far too savvy to allow Western individuals or corporations to buy up or control THEIR assets - something that we might want to take long, hard look at!)

The question is: what will the Chinese do with their new-found wealth? The West barely escaped Japan's invasion intact (judging by the decimation in Detroit, they might still win!), and that was from a tiny island nation with only 100 million souls.

How will the West confront an imperialist China? On some levels, it is too late. They have our manufacturing. They are emigrating by the millions. Perhaps this will be the first war in history won by not firing a shot. One might argue that this is pay back for the West's former imperial ways; however, I doubt very much the Chinese will be as altruistic as many in the West are. We are saps, and willingly go like lambs to the slaughter.

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In the case of Japan, we may have helped their economy after WW2, but now they are firmly on our side, and are not potential enemies, unlike China and Russia(Though I don't think their would be any full scale war between either, all the sides know the stakes involed). Also, a side benefit to having great trading relations between 2 countries, is that country will be less likely to wage war with you, because doing so could devestate their economy.

Japan never ended the war with the U.S. they just changed their mode of attack.

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Japan never ended the war with the U.S. they just changed their mode of attack.

And our economy is sufferring so much right? And it had nothing to do with the housing bubble bursting, that was all Japans doing. It's not their fault the Big 3 basically went into autopilot mode 30 years ago.

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The miraculous growth of China is only the result of one thing: when Mao died and the Chinese opened their doors (peeking through Hong Kong), they have used the West's technology. Without our technology, they would still all be rice farmers. Japan learned that 170 years ago when Perry arrived in Edo Bay. It took China 150 years to figure that out (not terribly smart, those Chinese!) As I said, in our greed and total disdain for the future, Western companies are falling all over themselves to form 'partnerships' (because now the Chinese are far too savvy to allow Western individuals or corporations to buy up or control THEIR assets - something that we might want to take long, hard look at!)

The question is: what will the Chinese do with their new-found wealth? The West barely escaped Japan's invasion intact (judging by the decimation in Detroit, they might still win!), and that was from a tiny island nation with only 100 million souls.

How will the West confront an imperialist China? On some levels, it is too late. They have our manufacturing. They are emigrating by the millions. Perhaps this will be the first war in history won by not firing a shot. One might argue that this is pay back for the West's former imperial ways; however, I doubt very much the Chinese will be as altruistic as many in the West are. We are saps, and willingly go like lambs to the slaughter.

It seems like you would only be happy if the US had all the power and money, and every other country was poor, and were rice farmers living on $1 a day.

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It seems like you would only be happy if the US had all the power and money, and every other country was poor, and were rice farmers living on $1 a day.

Their condition is their own issue, not ours. By attempting this idiocy of global economic parity we only wound ourselves.

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You forgot one fact. Regardless of what the US does, the Chinese economy is going to keep growing. And I believe it's 1.6 billion people now. Either our companies get a part of that growth, or they don't. We put up more trade barriers, and they won't get a part of that growth, and we WILL be the enemy.

We are very much locked out of the Chinese economy already. The Buick brand might be a huge seller in China... but where are those Buicks built and why are they built there?

The Chinese will allow products to be sold in their country if they are manufactured in China.

The best thing for the U.S. to do is set up reciprocal trade policy. If China wants to sell products in the U.S. they are certainly welcome to.... as long as they are manufactured in the U.S.

Same goes for Japan, Korea, etc.

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Maybe we should give Great Britain back their technology which started off this country in the colonial days.

Absurd.

We had the same technology they did, and we made ourselves free - owing them nothing.

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It seems like you would only be happy if the US had all the power and money, and every other country was poor, and were rice farmers living on $1 a day.

Not at all. But don't bleat about "Free Trade" with the U.S. if you aren't going to actually practice it.

You know the Chinese auto companies want to sell vehicles here. Let's have the same requirement for Chinese vehicles in the U.S. as China has for U.S. vehicles in China.

If they want to sell it here, they've gotta build it here. - That's China's Stand*

*With apologies to Allstate

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Not at all. But don't bleat about "Free Trade" with the U.S. if you aren't going to actually practice it.

You know the Chinese auto companies want to sell vehicles here. Let's have the same requirement for Chinese vehicles in the U.S. as China has for U.S. vehicles in China.

If they want to sell it here, they've gotta build it here. - That's China's Stand*

Agreed.

We have played the magnanimous partner in trade agreements for far too long.

Guess what?

We are going broke because of it.

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Not at all. But don't bleat about "Free Trade" with the U.S. if you aren't going to actually practice it.

You know the Chinese auto companies want to sell vehicles here. Let's have the same requirement for Chinese vehicles in the U.S. as China has for U.S. vehicles in China.

If they want to sell it here, they've gotta build it here. - That's China's Stand*

*With apologies to Allstate

Do you think the US is always fair? Not even in just the economy, but in actual wars? Like backing the oppressing Shah of Iran, then when they overthrow him, we cut them off from basically the world. Then, we give Iraq biological weapons, and basically the ok to use them against Iran in their war, only to take over Iraq when when Hussain doesn't want to be our puppet anymore?

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And our economy is sufferring so much right? And it had nothing to do with the housing bubble bursting, that was all Japans doing. It's not their fault the Big 3 basically went into autopilot mode 30 years ago.

uhm. You clearly don't understand the causes of all of this. The housing bubble busting was the symptom not the cause.

Zenith, RCA, Emerson, the entire textile industry, the steel industry, toy manufacturers.. the list goes on and on.

How can a country wipe out so much of it's manufacturing base and still expect to be able to afford a 3,000 sq/ft McMansion for everyone?

Don't forget, wiping out all of those manufacturing jobs depressed salaries for the white collar jobs as well.

The whole credit bubble (it is far more than just housing BTW, and it's no where near done bursting), was created to make up for 30 years of zero wage growth for everyone except the top 1%.

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Do you think the US is always fair? Not even in just the economy, but in actual wars? Like backing the oppressing Shah of Iran, then when they overthrow him, we cut them off from basically the world. Then, we give Iraq biological weapons, and basically the ok to use them against Iran in their war, only to take over Iraq when when Hussain doesn't want to be our puppet anymore?

Of course not..the US foreign policy, trade, etc isn't about 'fair', it's about maximing profit for the corrupt multinational corporations that control the US government.

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Do you think the US is always fair? Not even in just the economy, but in actual wars? Like backing the oppressing Shah of Iran, then when they overthrow him, we cut them off from basically the world. Then, we give Iraq biological weapons, and basically the ok to use them against Iran in their war, only to take over Iraq when when Hussain doesn't want to be our puppet anymore?

The U.S. is not free from sin... but in terms of economics, we'd eat our young for the sake of a dollar. Our actions in terms of trade and economic policy for the past 50 years have been solely for the benefit of the top 1%.

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