My recent experiences

[Camino LS6]

... with the full-size Blazer and 2-door Tahoe have gotten me wondering. I wonder how long I can tap the used market for the great stuff GM no longer builds - the stuff I actually like. Almost all of those cars are getting difficult to find in pristine, low-mile, condition. The 2-door SUVs are a great example as they never built enough of them for the demand, consequently they have been in short supply from the outset. This has kept prices quite high even for very high-mileage examples.

Seems to me, the same will be true for the GTO and other interesting GM cars going forward. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy rehabing the stuff I find, but it would be nice to find something in mint condition now and then. It just seems like all the good stuff gets used-up, rather than preserved.

As for new stuff, I can only wait and see what shows up. Maybe something I would want will show up eventually.

[Delta Force79]

I would hazard a guess that cars such as the GTO and G8 GXP among others will probably be abused in the long run and may not fair so well. On the other hand you might be able to find a mint Aztek in 20 years

[Camino LS6]

Funny.

I'm more likely to become a pedestrian than to buy an Aztek.

It just sucks a bit to go from an amazing array of stuff I like down to almost nothing.

[Delta Force79]

It is a sad reality that we unfortunately have to live with. Even cars such as my Riviera are becoming harder and harder to find in good to pristine condition, and these are only 15 years old at the most currently. People today aside from us gearheads just dont value their cars as much as I would imagine people did 30, 40 years ago. Why take care of your car and baby it today when tomorrow you're just gonna trade it in for the next big thing. The only way I can see this trend changing is with the advent of green cars becoming more common, such as the Volt. While nifty and indeed an engineering marvel, I think people like us, meaning the enthusiasts will see the changing of the guard and will hopefully be able to save more of these future classics, trying to hold on to whats left of cars as we know them.

[Robert Hall]

Well, vehicles from the '90s and today have just 'used cars' status, not really old enough to be considered collector cars or get that kind of interest from people..

[Delta Force79]

That's true, however the same could be said at the beginning of this decade about 80's cars, and yet now 3rd gen F bodies and Grand Nationals etc are considered classics ( more so the GN's) I can see the first gen Viper's, Prowlers, C5's and such becoming collectors items in the near future.

[Robert Hall]

That's true, however the same could be said at the beginning of this decade about 80's cars, and yet now 3rd gen F bodies and Grand Nationals etc are considered classics ( more so the GN's) I can see the first gen Viper's, Prowlers, C5's and such becoming collectors items in the near future.

Yes, 3rd gen F bodies and GNs are old enough and uncommon enough that people are restoring them and preserving clean originals. Kind of old enough to have fallen out of used car status. Kind of like my Mustang...most GTs and LX 5.0s were used up in the '90s, trashed by the kiddies, modified w/ a bunch of aftermarket $h!. Mine is all original and preserved that way.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Satty]

People are restoring 3rd gen F-bodies? Why? Thats like restoring a Corsica or Previa or some other POS.

[Camino LS6]

People are restoring 3rd gen F-bodies? Why? Thats like restoring a Corsica or Previa or some other POS.

Only you would think that.

[Robert Hall]

People are restoring 3rd gen F-bodies? Why? Thats like restoring a Corsica or Previa or some other POS.

I'm sure people are restoring the good ones..V8 IROC-Zs, Trans Ams, GTAs, etc. Not the common stuff.

[Camino LS6]

...1LEs, any vert, WS6s, Formulas, Firehawks, RS Camaros...

Like the 5.0 Mustangs, these cars are much loved.

[Robert Hall]

...1LEs, any vert, WS6s, Formulas, Firehawks, RS Camaros...

Like the 5.0 Mustangs, these cars are much loved.

Ya...and you just don't see them around anymore. Maybe a nice one at the occasional car show, but about the only time I see any 3rd gen on a street it's a worn out beater. Newest are 18 years old, oldest are 28...

[Satty]

Classic car!

Not buying it.

[Robert Hall]

Classic car!

Not buying it.

Well, at least it's not a disposable $h!box, like a Toyota..

[Camino LS6]

Classic car!

Not buying it.

Perfect hot rod fodder - and people will buy it for that.

C'mon Satty, face the reality, people love these cars even if you don't.

[Delta Force79]

Also not just the GN's but RWD G bodies in general are becoming sort of classics, especially Monte Carlo SS' and the Aero coupes. Hell even K cars are beginning to develop a following.

[Camino LS6]

Follow the prices and it becomes obvious, the G-bodies,F-bodies,and Fox bodies are all gaining value.

[Satty]

1985 Corolla

41 bids, up to over $2000. Just because people will pay doesn't mean its worth paying for.

[Camino LS6]

Go do a search on an '85 IROC, and then talk to me.

[Camino LS6]

A 41k original Toyota $h!box in pristine condition can only muster 2k after 41 bids.

Once a $h!box, always a $h!box.

ANY RWD GM or Ford from the same year in that condition would be big bucks by comparison.

That's how you define collectible and classic.

[balthazar]

AS I see it; maintaining a good condition '90s vehicle is all well & good (WRT future possible collectibles), but the nature of this era makes full-scale restorations prohibitive or impossible. The electronics & the sheer volume of time-sensitive plastics (with no aftermarket repro) makes it a formidable job compared to -say- a '66 Chevelle.

I also don't see many 3rd gen F-bodies on the road, tho I have spotted a number 'parked for future projects'.

I cannot recall the prices, but in a discussion w/ my brother, he said both a Prowler & a GNX went for big $$ at BJ.

-- -- -- -- --

>>"I would hazard a guess that cars such as the GTO and G8 GXP among others will probably be abused in the long run and may not fair so well. "<<

This will be like the musclecars of yore: a polarized result. Many will be abused / preventibly wrecked, but the position of these 2 among enthusiasts is well-known : some will be babied & saved with regards for the future. Those that are used as regular transportation until their life is over will be the minority.

Edited December 27, 2009 by balthazar

[Camino LS6]

Most G8 GXPs are likely to be preserved, the GTs won't fare as well. Many GTOs are already ruined by their owners.

[balthazar]

There's a beautiful black GTO 5.7L across from my M-I-L in the inner city. Usually parked on the street, the owner dotes on it. I talked to him last year- he was going to ship it to TX and have a PMD 455 powertrain installed, but hasn't as of yet. It's a beaut.

You are right- many will die hard & too early, but these are not mainstream 4-dr sedans; I guarantee you a (minority) percentage will be babied & preserved. Prying them out of their owner's fingers... and when, is another question.

[Delta Force79]

...especially now with Pontiac's demise.

[Camino LS6]

There's a beautiful black GTO 5.7L across from my M-I-L in the inner city. Usually parked on the street, the owner dotes on it. I talked to him last year- he was going to ship it to TX and have a PMD 455 powertrain installed, but hasn't as of yet. It's a beaut.

You are right- many will die hard & too early, but these are not mainstream 4-dr sedans; I guarantee you a (minority) percentage will be babied & preserved. Prying them out of their owner's fingers... and when, is another question.

Agreed completely.

As for when to do the prying, I suspect that the optimal time would be very soon.

[z28luvr01]

1985 Corolla

41 bids, up to over $2000. Just because people will pay doesn't mean its worth paying for.

Go do a search on an '85 IROC, and then talk to me.

1985 IROC

30K original miles. 2 bids. $2550. 8 days left on the auction. My crystal ball tells me he'll get his 10K. Stuff that in your Corolla's tailpipe and smoke it.

Heck, I'm having a hard time deciding between it and new furniture. I'm a sucker for black/red.

[Camino LS6]

Exactly.

[ocnblu]

I would take that base model gray Camaro Satty posted, restore the body and interior to factory original, put in a proper modern smallblock that fits under the low hood, re-do the transmission, driveline and brakes, put modern tires on it with the original rims, and go smoke some rice. Sleepers rock.

[Camino LS6]

I would take that base model gray Camaro Satty posted, restore the body and interior to factory original, put in a proper modern smallblock that fits under the low hood, re-do the transmission, driveline and brakes, put modern tires on it with the original rims, and go smoke some rice. Sleepers rock.

Yes they do.

That is very likely what will happen to it.

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, vehicles from the '90s and today have just 'used cars' status, not really old enough to be considered collector cars or get that kind of interest from people..

C5 Zo6

Grand national C4

C4 ZR-1

Firehawk

Cyclone

Typhoon

Impala SS

Several variants of Miata

Integra type R and GSR

Toyota Supra

Several variants of Mustang

1LE Camaro's and firebirds

FD RX-7

BMW M3

BMW Z3

BMW Clownshoe Coupe

Lots of moderately collectable stuff from the era...

Then again, not sure if a lot of (other)cars from the era merit preservation.

[A Horse With No Name]

...and Camino...Why not just keep the current barn door?

My suggestion-3 vehicles, or 4-

El cheapo plow truck/work truck, Barn door, a (not current gen) Wrangler, and some cool, unique old GM/GMC commercial vehicle.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

The Sy/Ty twins have suffered pretty badly in this way - so few have been preserved well.

And that's just sad.

[A Horse With No Name]

I would take that base model gray Camaro Satty posted, restore the body and interior to factory original, put in a proper modern smallblock that fits under the low hood, re-do the transmission, driveline and brakes, put modern tires on it with the original rims, and go smoke some rice. Sleepers rock.

Problem with third gen stuff is that it goes sooo cheap it's almost not worth restoring.

Yes, a few really well preserved cars bring big bucks....but most of those third gen Camaro's and firebirds sell wayy cheap.

Selling a vehicle for $3500 after I've put 9k into it just doesn't float my boat.

Believe me though , I've thought of the possibilities...1LE spec...thumpin small block...sticky set of Hoosiers...

But

[Camino LS6]

...and Camino...Why not just keep the current barn door?

My suggestion-3 vehicles, or 4-

El cheapo plow truck/work truck, Barn door, a (not current gen) Wrangler, and some cool, unique old GM/GMC commercial vehicle.

Chris

Oh I'm planning on keeping the Barn door for a while, but you know me - so many cars, so little time.

Wrangler is out.

ROPOS is temporary (I am still short a towing machine).

Projects will come and go.

[A Horse With No Name]

The Sy/Ty twins have suffered pretty badly in this way - so few have been preserved well.

And that's just sad.

Yes it is...amazing cars right from GM.

What makes me really sad is how uncommon it is for me to see a Grand National anymore. THAT is a GM car I aspire to own!

Chris

Why would a Wrangler be out??

It's not Asian...

Edited December 27, 2009 by 66Stang

[Camino LS6]

Problem with third gen stuff is that it goes sooo cheap it's almost not worth restoring.

Yes, a few really well preserved cars bring big bucks....but most of those third gen Camaro's and firebirds sell wayy cheap.

Selling a vehicle for $3500 after I've put 9k into it just doesn't float my boat.

Believe me though , I've thought of the possibilities...1LE spec...thumpin small block...sticky set of Hoosiers...

But

But nothing!

That's one of the best things about these cars, they are still an affordable toy that can deliver real performance.

[A Horse With No Name]

Camino for me, the promise of the 4th gen cars performance wise, and the realtive affordability of the C5 Corvettes kind of put the third gens on back burner status.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Never been a Wrangler fan, only considered one when hunting for a plow vehicle.

Just don't like them all that much.

[Camino LS6]

Camino for me, the promise of the 4th gen cars performance wise, and the realtive affordability of the C5 Corvettes kind of put the third gens on back burner status.

Chris

I can understand that, though the major difference between 3rd and 4th gen performance is drivetrain - and that's easily remedied. The third gen handles amazingly well, so much so that LS1 conversions are becoming quite popular.

[A Horse With No Name]

That's cool....

I think will still be a few nice GTO's around...

[Camino LS6]

That's cool....

I think will still be a few nice GTO's around...

...and I may have to claim one.

I can only go so long without a manual.

[A Horse With No Name]

Of all the (non Corvette) V8 GM cars since the golden era (1955-1974) Modern GTO is the one to get IMHO.

Although a nice C5 might be a good change of pace for you. And they are becoming VERY affordable...still lots of cars around in great shape...

[Camino LS6]

Well, I still haven't owned a Vette...

The GTO was such a perfect fit that I'll probably have another.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

I totally understand. I know my Toronado is rare and it was hard to come by. The option package I have is rare. When I do go looking for Toronados, most are Trofeos. Then it becomes and issue of quality and condition.

[caddycruiser]

Most G8 GXPs are likely to be preserved, the GTs won't fare as well. Many GTOs are already ruined by their owners.

This one has my mind going in circles some days, when I drive mine. A rare GT, as it is, in Pacific Slate and Premium/Sport with no roof, I'd have trouble replacing it as is right now let alone years down the line. A lot of GT's are being just as pampered, just modded to different degrees such as mine, and GXP's are just scant all together. GXP's are mainly seeing wheel swaps, tunes, intakes, and exhaust. Not terribly much else, at least not enough to harm them.

Months back I was very close to seriously trying to buy what was one of the last Pacific Slate/Auto GXP's. What stopped me is it would have to be a daily driver and though a car is a car, between what I had already modded on my GT and how many miles I know I rack up, it sort of defeated the "special-ness" of it. In reality, there's such a small difference in every way between a GT and GXP, yet the rarest form of a rare car makes it cool. Period. Still plan on finding one, because with 14.5k miles in 10 months on my GT, I can't see anything else giving me the same package for anywhere near the same price when the time comes. I've thought about a Camaro, but now with one in the family, I like it but it's just not the same package. I'd still buy one, but it can't do everything a G8 can and won't be nearly as rare or special, by any means.

So I'm already plotting to find another G8 in time to come, hopefully a GXP, and be able to either split use between the two or keep one a little more preserved.

The "special" car market from the past decade or two is going to get interesting. GTO's, G8's, rare truck combo's--I still also want one of the next to none '08+ 2wd Tahoe's with the 6.2L option...not a package you can't get in another model, but special regardless--and then older, things like the G bodies, B/D bodies, etc. LOVE new GM, but at the same time, there's a lot from recent times that retain a big "want" factor and that new GM won't produce the likes of again...

Edited December 28, 2009 by caddycruiser

[Camino LS6]

That sums my fears up quite well, Caddycruiser.

The only G8 I'll ever seek out would be a GXP, not so much for the rarity, but for the manual. Otherwise, I just couldn't do the sedan thing.

If I ever see one in Pacific Slate, I may do something irrational to get my hands on it.

I'm still crushed that the ST never saw the light of day.

[caddycruiser]

I just had a conversation about that yesterday too...hah.

When discussing my G8 situation with my brother over the weekend, after just looking at my odometer & realizing it's still not yet a year, I said a) I need to find a slightly used GXP or another G8 of some form before too long when I have a bazillion miles on this one or they've all been used well and b) I'd actually like it to be a stick...just because. That was THE package to have. And in this car, as much as I enjoy the 6L80E, I just really, really, really, really want to drive and have one that's a stick...plain and simple. It'd accelerate my lacking stick skills pretty quickly. Of course I'd buy another auto too, because especially with a tune it's a scalded beast and runs like butter with no effort, but if one could be found...Mr. Gotta Shift It would be fine by me. As long as it isn't Liquid Red

[A Horse With No Name]

Speaking of doing irrational things...for me that car is the Solstice GXP targa...

Now that car....hmmm...anyone want a slighly used and abused firstborn son?

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Yes, the GXP targa is an instant collectible.

It's beautiful, and I would love to own one just on general principles.