NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

Cadillac Still Going to Get Lambda-based Crossover

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Cadillac Still Going to Get Lambda-based Crossover

By Erin Riches | May 26, 2010

We've heard before that Cadillac would be getting a large, 7-passenger crossover based on GM's Lambda platform architecture (already used for the Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse and GMC Acadia), but that was back before GM went into bankruptcy and emerged as a leaner, cleaner company with government backing.

Today, Karl Stracke, the automaker's vice president of global engineering, told Inside Line that a Lambda-based Cadillac crossover is absolutely a go.

We don't have any information on timing, yet, and we're taking a liberty here and speculating that the eventual large crossover will have a face like the Cadillac XTS concept unveiled this year in Detroit.

A version of the company's direct-injected 3.6-liter V6 is the obvious source of motivation for the Caddy crossover, but perhaps GM will experiment with turbocharging to find a little more power for it.

link:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/05/cadillac-still-going-to-get-lambda-based-crossover.html

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smk4565    351

Wow, a Lincoln MKT competitor, and just 3 years behind, I can't wait!!!! First we get an MKX clone 3 years too late, next an MKS clone is coming 3 years too late, now an MKT clone. Cadillac is on to something here with this copy Lincoln but 3 years later strategy. Because of course Lincoln is the gold standard of global luxury and is just dominating the sales charts here in the USA.

Back to reality, Cadillac is sunk, they have hit the iceberg are taking on water, and rearranging the deck chairs as the violins play isn't going to change the inevitable outcome. Cadillac is clueless, has no direction, no management, no vision, no pride, no ingenuity, no imagination, no brains, no integrity, and no guts. In 3 years Cadillac will just be a bunch of dressed up Chevys on the corporate platform with the corporate V6 (or corporate turbo 4). Cadillac is no different than Lincoln or Acura. Just a second tier, second rate luxury brand appealing to people who can't afford a German car.

I wish Cadillac was phased out in the early 1980s so they could at least have gone out on top. Now they are just going to be dragged through the mud. New GM is just like old GM, they will do anything for sales volume, and if sacrificing the Wreath and Crest gets a few short term sales they will do it. Cadillac is like a hall of fame baseball player that is way past his prime, should have retired a couple years ago, but is trying to hang on while hitting .200 and unable to play the field or run the bases. Cadillac is a shell of its former self and it is embarrassing. Just bring on the Cadillac Aveo and Cadillac Cruze now, so we can complete the degradation of Cadillac and end it once and for all.

On this day, I am actually glad Oldsmobile is gone, because they went out with pride and respect. Once Oldsmobile closed down, GM fell apart. If Olds was still around they would have been pumped full of rental car crap (like Pontiac) or had their cars left to rot on the vine and be ridiculed. I'll remember Oldsmobile for the good things they did, were as now my memories of Cadillac will be of a dead brand with a dead customer base trying to chase after an almost as dead Lincoln.

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FAPTurbo    1,093

Wow, a Lincoln MKT competitor, and just 3 years behind, I can't wait!!!! First we get an MKX clone 3 years too late, next an MKS clone is coming 3 years too late, now an MKT clone. Cadillac is on to something here with this copy Lincoln but 3 years later strategy. Because of course Lincoln is the gold standard of global luxury and is just dominating the sales charts here in the USA.

Back to reality, Cadillac is sunk, they have hit the iceberg are taking on water, and rearranging the deck chairs as the violins play isn't going to change the inevitable outcome. Cadillac is clueless, has no direction, no management, no vision, no pride, no ingenuity, no imagination, no brains, no integrity, and no guts. In 3 years Cadillac will just be a bunch of dressed up Chevys on the corporate platform with the corporate V6 (or corporate turbo 4). Cadillac is no different than Lincoln or Acura. Just a second tier, second rate luxury brand appealing to people who can't afford a German car.

I wish Cadillac was phased out in the early 1980s so they could at least have gone out on top. Now they are just going to be dragged through the mud. New GM is just like old GM, they will do anything for sales volume, and if sacrificing the Wreath and Crest gets a few short term sales they will do it. Cadillac is like a hall of fame baseball player that is way past his prime, should have retired a couple years ago, but is trying to hang on while hitting .200 and unable to play the field or run the bases. Cadillac is a shell of its former self and it is embarrassing. Just bring on the Cadillac Aveo and Cadillac Cruze now, so we can complete the degradation of Cadillac and end it once and for all.

On this day, I am actually glad Oldsmobile is gone, because they went out with pride and respect. Once Oldsmobile closed down, GM fell apart. If Olds was still around they would have been pumped full of rental car crap (like Pontiac) or had their cars left to rot on the vine and be ridiculed. I'll remember Oldsmobile for the good things they did, were as now my memories of Cadillac will be of a dead brand with a dead customer base trying to chase after an almost as dead Lincoln.

Riveting tale, chap!

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Drew Dowdell    5,159

Wow, a Lincoln MKT competitor, and just 3 years behind, I can't wait!!!! First we get an MKX clone 3 years too late, next an MKS clone is coming 3 years too late, now an MKT clone. Cadillac is on to something here with this copy Lincoln but 3 years later strategy. Because of course Lincoln is the gold standard of global luxury and is just dominating the sales charts here in the USA.

Bigger than the MKT by a lot. It's actually pushing itself into a new class that hasn't been done yet other than Enclave..... the full size luxury crossover. The SRX was out before the MKX. The new SRX is too small to be an MKX clone.

Back to reality, Cadillac is sunk, they have hit the iceberg are taking on water, and rearranging the deck chairs as the violins play isn't going to change the inevitable outcome. Cadillac is clueless, has no direction, no management, no vision, no pride, no ingenuity, no imagination, no brains, no integrity, and no guts. In 3 years Cadillac will just be a bunch of dressed up Chevys on the corporate platform with the corporate V6 (or corporate turbo 4). Cadillac is no different than Lincoln or Acura. Just a second tier, second rate luxury brand appealing to people who can't afford a German car.

BMW and Benz certainly have you fooled. Their marketing department should get an extra candy cane in their stocking this Christmas for the work they've done on you.

Answer me this.... what engines not in the AMG or M lines aren't corporate engines at BMW and Benz?

Some examples with Benz

The 3.0 litre CDI is used in C-Class, E-Class, S-Class, M-Class, Grand Cherokee, Euro spec Chrysler 300, Freightliner Sprinter

The 3.5 litre gas is used in the SLK, CLS, CLK, C, E, S CL, R, ML, CLC, Sprinter, Viano

The 5.5 litre gas is used in the E, CL, CLS, GL, ML, S, CLK

Some examples with BMW

The 1.4 and 1.6 gas are used in the Mini, the Peugeot 207 and 308, and the Citroen C4 and a modified version of the engine with more proprietary BMW technology is in the 316i

The 3.0 is used in the 1, 3, 5, 7, X6, and Z4

The 3.0T is used in the 1, 3, 5, and 5GT

I wish Cadillac was phased out in the early 1980s so they could at least have gone out on top. Now they are just going to be dragged through the mud. New GM is just like old GM, they will do anything for sales volume, and if sacrificing the Wreath and Crest gets a few short term sales they will do it. Cadillac is like a hall of fame baseball player that is way past his prime, should have retired a couple years ago, but is trying to hang on while hitting .200 and unable to play the field or run the bases. Cadillac is a shell of its former self and it is embarrassing. Just bring on the Cadillac Aveo and Cadillac Cruze now, so we can complete the degradation of Cadillac and end it once and for all.

2 years ago I couldn't have said this, but I think today, GM is better at predicting the future than you are. As much as I like the Escalade, we are going to have fuel issues in the near future... near enough that the next generation of vehicles has to be built to that future now. A lambda Cadillac with Escalade size seating and turbo engine but with better mileage is a smart move for GM. You keep ranting about the SRX, but every review of it has been stellar and it's outselling nearly it's entire class.... including all the similarly priced RWD models.

Oh and BTW, remember that we're getting a Mini-based BMW "0-series" and the A-class and B-Class are coming to our shores... when that happens, if Cadillac came out with a Delta or Gamma based car... are you going to accuse them of "just following the Germans"?

On this day, I am actually glad Oldsmobile is gone, because they went out with pride and respect. Once Oldsmobile closed down, GM fell apart. If Olds was still around they would have been pumped full of rental car crap (like Pontiac) or had their cars left to rot on the vine and be ridiculed. I'll remember Oldsmobile for the good things they did, were as now my memories of Cadillac will be of a dead brand with a dead customer base trying to chase after an almost as dead Lincoln.

I'd love to see the average buyer age for Cadillac over the past few years. I'm certain it's dropped. DTSes are almost all fleet and STS doesn't sell enough to matter.

What you don't understand SMK... is that most people don't care about what you care about. They don't care about the displacement of the engine, they just want the feeling of power. It could be a 2 liter, single cylinder, pushrod, diesel, mounted upside down on the roof, for all they care as long as it gets them to 60 in about 6 seconds with minimal noise and fuel use. The SRX is selling well. The CTS could be doing better, but it's soon time for an MCE on that. The ATS is coming. This Lamda Cadillac is coming. The XTS is coming. If AWD is standard on the latter two, I doubt potential buyer would even know which way the engine was oriented.... or even that engines can be oriented different ways.

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smk4565    351

Bigger than the MKT by a lot. It's actually pushing itself into a new class that hasn't been done yet other than Enclave..... the full size luxury crossover. The SRX was out before the MKX. The new SRX is too small to be an MKX clone.

The MKT is 207.8 inches long, that is 7 inches longer than an Enclave or Escalade. The MKT is also 5,000 lbs just like the Enclave, the Enclave is about 5 inches taller though, they have similar widths.

The SRX is 190 inches long, it is bigger than a Lexus RX, and certainly bigger than an Lincoln MKX which is only 186 inches long. Both vehicles are between 75.0 and 76.0 inches wide, both have base curb weights of 4200-4250 lbs.

If the XTS is 204 inches long, they have just gone 3 for 3 in copying Lincoln's sizes with products based on a FWD Chevy. And do we even know for sure that the ATS won't just be a Cruze based car with standard AWD and a turbo 4, pretending to be 3-series. They at least will be ahead of Lincoln there, I don't think there is a Lincoln Focus coming out.

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smk4565    351

What you don't understand SMK... is that most people don't care about what you care about. They don't care about the displacement of the engine, they just want the feeling of power. It could be a 2 liter, single cylinder, pushrod, diesel, mounted upside down on the roof, for all they care as long as it gets them to 60 in about 6 seconds with minimal noise and fuel use. The SRX is selling well. The CTS could be doing better, but it's soon time for an MCE on that. The ATS is coming. This Lamda Cadillac is coming. The XTS is coming. If AWD is standard on the latter two, I doubt potential buyer would even know which way the engine was oriented.... or even that engines can be oriented different ways.

Because Cadillac is going after the import buyer, they have given up on it. They are going after the middle America buyer that had a Buick, Lincoln, or Chrysler. That is why Cadillac is lowering prices and moving down market. They are going to where Buick and Oldsmobile were 10-20 years ago, so that Buick can go down to where Pontiac and Saturn were.

And why 4 Lambdas (the Cadillac would really be the 5th)? They didn't learn their mistake with 6 GMT360' or the Montana/Uplander/Relay/Terrazza fiasco. New GM thinks the same as old GM. Just give every brand a product on every platform we have, to appease the dealers and get volume. All that does is make competition for themselves and drive down prices.

All Cadillac is (and is becoming) is Acura with poorer resale value. I knew Lincoln was dead, and would never challenge the imports, but I always held out hope that Cadillac one day would step up and give American cars a good name, but Cadillac is a second rate company going no where.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159

You always pick one random stat and use that to compare the whole vehicle.

The MKT isn't packaged as well on the inside as the Lambdas are. There is much more interior room in the Lambdas. The back row of the MKT is only useable by people 5'10" and under... I was barely able to fit back there and I wouldn't want to go on a long trip in the back of an MKT. The Lambdas on the other hand would be quite comfortable for someone my height or even taller on a long trip.

The SRX isn't packaged as well as the RX or even the MKX and that's mostly because of styling. As far as the interior is concerned, the SRX is sized the same as the X3 and GLK.

Since you like picking out one random statistic for comparison.... the SRX and the X3 have the same wheelbase, so clearly the SRX and the X3 are the same.

If the XTS is 204 inches long it will also be within an inch of the Audi A8L, Jaguar XJL, Mercedes Benz S-Class, Lexus LS, BMW 750Li..... so clearly, if the XTS is going to suck because it's 204 inches long like the MKS, then don't all of those German, British, and Japanese sedans automatically suck too?

The ATS is being built on a new platform that, yes, will be shared with other divisions including Chevy. However, it is a RWD based platform so you can pick that wad of your panties out of your crack.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159

Because Cadillac is going after the import buyer, they have given up on it. They are going after the middle America buyer that had a Buick, Lincoln, or Chrysler. That is why Cadillac is lowering prices and moving down market. They are going to where Buick and Oldsmobile were 10-20 years ago, so that Buick can go down to where Pontiac and Saturn were.

And why 4 Lambdas (the Cadillac would really be the 5th)? They didn't learn their mistake with 6 GMT360' or the Montana/Uplander/Relay/Terrazza fiasco. New GM thinks the same as old GM. Just give every brand a product on every platform we have, to appease the dealers and get volume. All that does is make competition for themselves and drive down prices.

All Cadillac is (and is becoming) is Acura with poorer resale value. I knew Lincoln was dead, and would never challenge the imports, but I always held out hope that Cadillac one day would step up and give American cars a good name, but Cadillac is a second rate company going no where.

Ask yourself this, why are Audi, BMW and Mercedes moving down market? Sing it with me! 1-series, 0-series! A-Class B-Class! A1 A3!

I'd argue that they already have moved way down market in on their own continent years ago but are now just catching up with that process here in North America.

Also what does an import buyer looking for? Do they really care about the orientation of the engine or are they just looking for luxury and good performance. Only a few hardcore folks will care which way the engine in the SRX faces. Suzy McMansion trading in her rough riding X3 doesn't care... she just wants it to look good and go fast-ish.

There is a good amount of differentiation between the Lamdas in styling and some content. You can't even mistake an Enclave for an Acadia on a side profile. I imagine that a Cadillac lambda is not going to look like a Traverse with vertical headlights.

I wonder if this beast will be the next Escalade or in addition to the Escalade?

If I were GM, I'd cancel the short wheelbase Escalade, but keep the nameplate on the ESV and EXT

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Lamar    72

Oldsmoboi and SMK, you both make good points.

Lincoln has no real competitor to the CTS line or the SRX line.

No CTS competitor is true. The refreshed MKX, though, will match up with the SRX extremely well and even surpass it in some respects.

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Intrepidation    848

smk makes good points in his last to posts actually. GM is still got it in its head that every brand needs a version of the same damn thing. Cadillac should at least be getting unique platforms to work with since it's supposed to be the most different and upmarket of all the GM brands, yet it's going to be saddled with an Epsilon and a Lambda platform, both which is exist in multiple other brands, both are FWD.

It seems to be that there's two groups of people running Cadillac: one that wants it to be the Standard of the World and go toe-to-toe with the best from Germany (CTS and all its variants) and those who want to keep costs low and go after Lincoln and Acura...which is what Buick should be doing.

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Report: Cadillac to get seven-seat Lambda variant

by Zach Bowman (RSS feed) on May 27th 2010 at 11:31AM

Brace yourself, Cadillac fans. Word has just come down the pike that The Crest will "absolutely" be getting a new model based on none other than the Lambda architecture. That means that a variant of the Chevrolet Traverse will be sold under all four of The General's brands. So far, drivetrain options are still up in the air and vague at best, but we'd be willing to bet our lucky penny that both front- and all-wheel drive models will be available. Chances are that power will come from the same 3.6-liter V6 found under the hood of every other Lambda out there, too.

It's hard not to approach this with a cynical eye. Right after the company's 2009 bankruptcy blitzkrieg, GM promised the world that it was through with badge engineering for good. Swapping nameplates and fenders had done much to lead the company to the brink of collapse, and the waves of fresh new models hitting our shores had us thinking that maybe the company had turned over a new leaf.

By all accounts, the Chevrolet Traverse and Buick Enclave are selling well, so is this a case of Detroit getting greedy or is the company simply trying to spread development costs as thin as possible? Either way, it will take something really special to convince us that this is a smart move.

link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/27/report-cadillac-to-get-seven-seat-lambda-variant/

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Drew Dowdell    5,159

No CTS competitor is true. The refreshed MKX, though, will match up with the SRX extremely well and even surpass it in some respects.

I think their relative sizes of interiors are too different to be a direct comparison. The Edge I just had is the same size as the MKX and it felt like a 2-row Lambda in size and heft. The SRX is much smaller inside.

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Lamar    72

I think their relative sizes of interiors are too different to be a direct comparison. The Edge I just had is the same size as the MKX and it felt like a 2-row Lambda in size and heft. The SRX is much smaller inside.

True, the MKX is bigger inside.

But when it boils down to it, if both vehicles' main focus is to compete with the RX350, then they ultimately compete with each other as well.

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regfootball    250

You always pick one random stat and use that to compare the whole vehicle.

The MKT isn't packaged as well on the inside as the Lambdas are. There is much more interior room in the Lambdas. The back row of the MKT is only useable by people 5'10" and under... I was barely able to fit back there and I wouldn't want to go on a long trip in the back of an MKT. The Lambdas on the other hand would be quite comfortable for someone my height or even taller on a long trip.

The SRX isn't packaged as well as the RX or even the MKX and that's mostly because of styling. As far as the interior is concerned, the SRX is sized the same as the X3 and GLK.

Since you like picking out one random statistic for comparison.... the SRX and the X3 have the same wheelbase, so clearly the SRX and the X3 are the same.

If the XTS is 204 inches long it will also be within an inch of the Audi A8L, Jaguar XJL, Mercedes Benz S-Class, Lexus LS, BMW 750Li..... so clearly, if the XTS is going to suck because it's 204 inches long like the MKS, then don't all of those German, British, and Japanese sedans automatically suck too?

The ATS is being built on a new platform that, yes, will be shared with other divisions including Chevy. However, it is a RWD based platform so you can pick that wad of your panties out of your crack.

Lambda has the best packaging.

However, it does not have a 365hp twin turbo that goes balls out and has no fuel economy penalty.

a cadillac lambda can't get by on the standard v6.

MKt will outhandle the lambda too, by a lot.

I think their relative sizes of interiors are too different to be a direct comparison. The Edge I just had is the same size as the MKX and it felt like a 2-row Lambda in size and heft. The SRX is much smaller inside.

new MKX will fix the interior issues. the SRX now has a bangup interior. If you don't use the back seats, the extra space of the MKx won't be an issue. I want to see if Ford stuffs the ecoboost in the MKx too. In that regard it will have an advantage over the SRX with its gutless base engine and non functioning optional turbo.

Edited by regfootball

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Drew Dowdell    5,159

Lambda has the best packaging.

However, it does not have a 365hp twin turbo that goes balls out and has no fuel economy penalty.

a cadillac lambda can't get by on the standard v6.

On this we agree completely..... I suspect the basic DI3.6 won't be the engine... or at least not the only engine choice...

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regfootball    250

GM doesn't need to experiment.... the Turbo 2.8 is the same family of engine. A Turbo-DI 3.6 should be good for 360+ horsepower

they apparently didn't experiment with regular octane gas.....

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Drew Dowdell    5,159

new MKX will fix the interior issues. the SRX now has a bangup interior. If you don't use the back seats, the extra space of the MKx won't be an issue. I want to see if Ford stuffs the ecoboost in the MKx too. In that regard it will have an advantage over the SRX with its gutless base engine and non functioning optional turbo.

What to you mean "non-functioning turbo"?

If you're referring to the recall, the problem was that it's functioning too well.....

they apparently didn't experiment with regular octane gas.....

Does the Ecoboost V6 require premium? I bet there is a severe power penalty if you put regular in it.

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smk4565    351

Ask yourself this, why are Audi, BMW and Mercedes moving down market? Sing it with me! 1-series, 0-series! A-Class B-Class! A1 A3!

I'd argue that they already have moved way down market in on their own continent years ago but are now just catching up with that process here in North America.

Also what does an import buyer looking for?

Mercedes hasn't gone down market yet in the USA, and even if they do, they have no other brand to do it with, unless you count Smart, which I am not. GM has Buick, GMC, and Chevy for the mainstream stuff, Cadillac doesn't need to go down to $30,000 because that is what Buick and GMC are for. Even if Mercedes brings the B-class here and sells it for $25,000, it will be a compact like a Civic, but at a $8,000 premium, so it will still look like a premium car compared to other small cars. Right now if you want a midsize Mercedes (car or SUV) you are still looking at about $50,000 to start, the same can't be said for a midsize Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, or Lexus. Mercedes also has the S-class and AMG Gullwing which give their other products a massive image boost.

Import buyers, and many of the people that buy a Lexus or Mercedes are looking for status and image. Cadillac just doesn't have the same image those brands have, Cadillac is still a car that when you buy it, you have to defend why you made the choice.

And perhaps the biggest difference between Cadillac and Mercedes is Mercedes doesn't compromise. If Mercedes wants to build a sub-compact, then it will be the best engineered, most luxurious sub-compact out there. Cadillac doesn't set out to engineer and design the best car possible. They set out to do the best job they can working with an existing GM platform like Epsilon, Lambda or Theta, and then try to cram the round peg in a square hole in hopes they get close to what everyone else is doing.

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smk4565    351

My guess is the BOF Escalade stays, that is a profit machine as long as sales hold out. The Acadia will stay to appease dealers and GMC already sells 6 clones, so why not one more. The Cadillac Lambda will be Escalade size, but with the softer, car-like ride and slot in the price gap between the SRX and Escalade. Figure $45-55,000 range so it is more than the other lambdas. But really, what is the Cadillac Lambda's biggest competitors? The Escalade, Envlace and Yukon, along with the MKT? Maybe Audi Q7 which is rather expensive and pretty much the answer to a question that nobody asked.

This just reeks of Cadillac selling out and chasing volume, even if it is at the expense of their own image or sales from another GM brand.

On a side note, I just got my Car and Driver in the mail, and they compared the Taurus, LaCrosse, ES350 and Genesis 3.8. Surprise, surprise, the Genesis won easily. Imagine that, the purpose built rear drive architecture was better than a modified Camry, Malibu and S80/Five Hundred platform. Hyundai does it right, why can't Cadillac?

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