William Maley

Cadillac News: LA 2011: Cadillac XTS

159 posts in this topic

The outside is boring, and it looks like it has no rear deck lid, the trunk is like 4% of the car's length. And what is up with the rear door pillar, then a tiny window, then a huge C pillar? And the whole car gives me a Chevy/Buick vibe, because of the shapes and design cues, especially on the dash board. And the height, it is almost 60 inches tall, why are GM and Ford making such tall cars? This car just doesn't say "expensive" or "classy" to me, although it is not as bad a train wreck as the 2013 MKS.

300 hp V6 is nothing special, acceleration will probably be similar to the Deville/DTS. AWD and capless fuel filling is off the Lincoln, we basically have a LaCrosse/MKS blend with magnetic ride control and a digital display (which they don't state if it is LCD, LED, or TFT).

This lowers the standard for Cadillac.

In this class not everyone wants a feak of nature. Most want a solid comfortable luxury car. The tall roof adds more space and makes the interior feel more open vs sitting in a bunker like the 300. Fianlly the 300 HP is the base car and will make most buyers in this class happy.

You have to look at this car for the people it is targeted at no yourself. THis is not a car for you but there is a great segment out there that will love it. If Cadillac would make only cars most here on C&G they would be missing a large slice of the market. Many here need to wake up and learn that we are not the majority of buyers here. THis is why cars we do not love lke the Civic and Camry are top sellers. Same applies to the Luxury market, Not everyone wants a 5 series M car. The Luxury market is built on many boring sedans that support the other companies AMG and M series cars the represent only a fraction of their production.

Car companies today need models that reach all buyers in class not just some.

Besides it would be 3 years min before they would get another car out and even then what would it be based on. The flagship will be on the RWD platform and they really have little else to put this segment on.

I think the sales will show GM knows there is a market here and a lot of money to be made. They did ok with a poor old DTS and this car will only improve on that.

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I know who Cadillac is targeting, but I think it is a waste of time to do so, and it further hurts brand image of being a car for old people in Florida. And I know the entry-lux market exists of people that don't care about drive train or horsepower and just want a comfortable car, but those sort of cars can be bought for less than (or equal money to) a CTS, Cadillac is going to price the XTS higher than a CTS. I wouldn't mind this car as a Buick Park Avenue to give them an actual luxury car to sit atop their lineup, but I don't like this car as a Cadillac.

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changing to RWD killed STS sales. Caddy will have ATS and CTS with RWD and a new future flagship with RWD bias, I struggle to see why an AWD XTS to replace the popular DTS style car is a bad thing.

Especially when BMW, Jag and others are going FWD too.

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Questions: does the relatively short wheelbase, narrow width and relatively long length indicate a vehicle hamstrung by a platform that is stretched beyond its limits? Because Chrysler did this in the 80's with the K-car platform, they put as much length as they could in wheelbase, then added overhangs to give the impression of size... but the platform was still a K-car.

I am using this parallel not because I think the Regal and Malibu are no better than a Reliant, or that the XTS is no better than an 80's Imperial, I'm using it to ask a serious question: is the XTS simply too big for its underpinnings?

2012 Lincoln MKS:

wheelbase - 112.9"

length - 204.1"

width - 75.9"

height - 61.6"

The MKS platform... is it a stretched version of a smaller car? I am not entirely certain what it is derived from, is it all Ford, or is it Volvo S80 derived?

2012 Volvo S80 -

wheelbase - 111.6"

length - 191.0"

width - 73.3"

height - 58.8"

Edited by ocnblu
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Yup but I think they're very close in size. What I'm not sure of is where the Taurus/MKS/Flex/Freestyle/Taurus X/Explorer/MKT platform derived from. I don't think it is based on a smaller car like the Epsilon II XTS.

Edited by ocnblu
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Yup but I think they're very close in size. What I'm not sure of is where the Taurus/MKS/Flex/Freestyle/Taurus X/Explorer/MKT platform derived from. I don't think it is based on a smaller car like the Epsilon II XTS.

The D3/D4 platform was originally based on the Volvo S60/S80 platform (P2) that came out in '99. Debuted w/ the Five Hundred and Montego back in MY '05.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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Well then, the P2 platform was involving smaller cars, the S60 is not very big.

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I assume one reason the Epsilon II cars are narrow is that it is a global platform. I don't really care for the tall and narrow design trait of so many cars today, I prefer lower-longer-wider.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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I read somewhere, probably Blue Oval News, that Ford's D3 has more in common with the Volvo XC90 version of P2 than the S80 version of P2. That may be why the D3 sedans are so tall. There are rumors the next MKS will switch to the Ford Flex wheelbase which may help proportions.

I also think the XTS is 21st century version of the early 1990's K based Imperial/Fifth Avenue.

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I know who Cadillac is targeting, but I think it is a waste of time to do so, and it further hurts brand image of being a car for old people in Florida. And I know the entry-lux market exists of people that don't care about drive train or horsepower and just want a comfortable car, but those sort of cars can be bought for less than (or equal money to) a CTS, Cadillac is going to price the XTS higher than a CTS. I wouldn't mind this car as a Buick Park Avenue to give them an actual luxury car to sit atop their lineup, but I don't like this car as a Cadillac.

See this is where you are wrong. GM needs to sell to all people not just a few groups. There are several groups within the Luxury group. Also I think you will find this car will have some appeal to more than just snow tops. Unlike some want to believe not all buyers want a CTSV but they do want a car that is better than the old DTS.

THis is not a car for you and that is fine but you also have to understand you do not represent the main stream.

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Questions: does the relatively short wheelbase, narrow width and relatively long length indicate a vehicle hamstrung by a platform that is stretched beyond its limits? Because Chrysler did this in the 80's with the K-car platform, they put as much length as they could in wheelbase, then added overhangs to give the impression of size... but the platform was still a K-car.

I am using this parallel not because I think the Regal and Malibu are no better than a Reliant, or that the XTS is no better than an 80's Imperial, I'm using it to ask a serious question: is the XTS simply too big for its underpinnings?

2012 Lincoln MKS:

wheelbase - 112.9"

length - 204.1"

width - 75.9"

height - 61.6"

The MKS platform... is it a stretched version of a smaller car? I am not entirely certain what it is derived from, is it all Ford, or is it Volvo S80 derived?

2012 Volvo S80 -

wheelbase - 111.6"

length - 191.0"

width - 73.3"

height - 58.8"

This car is not that much larger than the Lacrosse and I see few people complain about it's size in any dim. I think once most see this car in person they will be fine with it.

The other issue is most larger cars will be this size soon as the market for large cars will become smaller and more expensive just as large engines will. Even today Jags leader is wanting to build a City car. These are very telling signs to the lenght the market will go. It is sad but we will see small boxes from some great names. We may be lucky to have a car as large as the XTS that we can afford by 2025.

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City cars will become popular be cause of population boom in urban areas. China and India combined have about 2.5 billion people, I'd want a car I can sell to those markets and to the cities that have populations of 10 or 20 million people.

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I want to make a comparison.

1998 Cadillac Seville

300 hp

295 lb-ft torque

Wheelbase: 112.2 inches

Length: 201 inches

Width: 75 inches

Height: 55.4 inches

Weight 4001 lbs

XTS:

300 hp

264 lb-ft torque

Wheelbase: 111.7 inches

Length: 202 inches

Width: 72.9 inches

Height: 59.1 inches

Weight ??? lbs

14 years later we have a taller, narrower Seville with less torque. How exciting.

Edited by smk4565
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The technology on the 98 Seville was probably greater than the average car than the XTS technology compared to the average car. A lot of cars now have blue tooth, lane departure warning, parking aides, back up cameras. Radar/Lasar cruise control is fairly common among luxury cars, magnetic ride control is what sets the XTS apart from an average car, but the 2002 Seville had MagnaRide, and Acura, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Corvette and Ferrari use a form of magnetorheological suspension.

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No other car has a system as advanced and as seamless as CUE, nor do any of their systems have the 'haptic,' touch feedback of it.

Back in 1998, crank windows could still be standard on cars and air conditioning was an option. Now everyone has technology. But the real challenge is offering the most complete package that has the best feature-set, and integration. The XTS offers the best, most cohesive package that is above anything in the automotive world. Sounds like a new standard to me.

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I want to make a comparison.

1998 Cadillac Seville

300 hp

295 lb-ft torque

Wheelbase: 112.2 inches

Length: 201 inches

Width: 75 inches

Height: 55.4 inches

Weight 4001 lbs

XTS:

300 hp

264 lb-ft torque

Wheelbase: 111.7 inches

Length: 202 inches

Width: 72.9 inches

Height: 59.1 inches

Weight ??? lbs

14 years later we have a taller, narrower Seville with less torque. How exciting.

You tend to forget that the XTS we see now is only the start. We are getting the Haldex AWD system which is world class as well as more power and even an advanced hybrid system, there is more to come.

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City cars will become popular be cause of population boom in urban areas. China and India combined have about 2.5 billion people, I'd want a car I can sell to those markets and to the cities that have populations of 10 or 20 million people.

They are more an necessary evil to sell cars in Europe and America. To meet future standards the line up many of these compomanies are not going to meet Emission And Fuel standards. They are now planting the seeds to classes of small cars we would never have seen unless they were forced to it. Companies like VW and GM have options but companies like Aston and Jag have no options and are running scared. So far the Aston has sold well but when the novalty has worn off where will they turn.

The Luxury and Truck markets will show the great changes in the next 12-15 years. Greater than we have seen in the past. Lets just hope Cadillac does better than they did in the past.

As we know now the STS was a nice car but most could not see spending more money on a car that for the most was just a large CTS. The next CTS will change as with the ATS it will lose sales to it.

Diversity at Cadillac is needed as they can not just live on 3-4 expanded and shrunk sized CTS cars.

I think you will find this car to be more advanced, quiet and with the best ride vs handling of any Cadillac in history.

The fact remains with the last few generations not all cars have to be overly large RWD or V8 to sell in this class. There is a large segment of buyers that have been found and this is the car for them.

I still think since they have hinted at a V we will see a Haldex AWD with well over 400 HP. Combined with the Magnaride and larger tires and ceramic brakes this could prove to be an interesting car after all.

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What does CUE do that MMI, COMMAND, iDrive and MyLincoln touch don't do? And reconfigurable instrument cluster is nice to suit needs of different drivers, but it has been done before, and I still prefer real gauges to a screen.

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What does CUE do that MMI, COMMAND, iDrive and MyLincoln touch don't do? And reconfigurable instrument cluster is nice to suit needs of different drivers, but it has been done before, and I still prefer real gauges to a screen.

Not cause the driver to smash into a power pole trying to figure out how to switch XM stations.

You can keep rationalizing all you want but this car is quite ahead of the competition. Maybe it won't be ahead of a BMW 5 on the Nurburgring, but it'll be so much more pleasant.

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What does CUE do that MMI, COMMAND, iDrive and MyLincoln touch don't do? And reconfigurable instrument cluster is nice to suit needs of different drivers, but it has been done before, and I still prefer real gauges to a screen.

Not cause the driver to smash into a power pole trying to figure out how to switch XM stations.

You can keep rationalizing all you want but this car is quite ahead of the competition. Maybe it won't be ahead of a BMW 5 on the Nurburgring, but it'll be so much more pleasant.

Many of the other luxury cars with driver interface systems either have secondary controls or voice command. And I don't see many German sedans wrapped around power poles. So that doesn't really answer my question as to what CUE does, that MMI/COMMAND/iDrive/MyFordTouch don't already do.

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It does everything they do. But better, and in a more integrated fashion. It's the Apple iOS of the industry... its competitors are Windows ME by comparison.

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Is there a video demonstration of Cadillac's system somebody can post here, or link to?

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The new Cadillac XTS - the luxury car for gadget geeks and grey hairs!

Sorry guys, couldn't resist.

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