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William Maley

LA 2011: Cadillac XTS: Comments

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The biggest factor in car sales in the luxury brands is "I like the way it looks".

This.

My Buick is a puller. You would never know unless you did. The car doesn't give it away.

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With time and each new generation the needs for large V8 engines and RWD has not been a must factor with many buyers.

Many in todays market grew up in 4 cylinder FWD Honda and never rode in or drove anything else.Many in the new generation are more interested in the on board electronics than they are size of the engine or what wheels pull. The market is evolving and changing. While there is still a must need to offer a RWD V8 at Cadillac it is not the only car that needs to be offered. Even today BMW and Benz are now looking to change their RWD only formulas.

With this car the only way to settle this argument is to let the market decide. Just as the argument over the old vs new SRX the market has spoken.

As for AWD even here in the snow belt we have them but not in great numbers. If Cadillac could offer this at a resonable price we may see more of them here. The nice thing is they at least went to one of the best systems in the world and that will make a big difference in how the car will perform and drive. It will only be a bonus to the car to offer this system.

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And GM had the design chops to pull it off too. This was contemporary to the XTS showcar:

post-394-0-56590900-1321749948.jpg

Now see this would appeal to me but not to those who the XTS are targeted at. I would rather see this kind of design also offered to take in more sales from both segments.

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If front wheel drive and corporate platforms are good enough for the most expensive Cadillac sedan, then why not make the CTS off the Malibu platform, and the ATS off the Cruze platform. Where does it stop. If Cadillac replaced the current CTS with a car built on the Regal/Malibu platform and gave it a turbo 4, everyone would cry bloody murder. Yet when Cadillac makes their top end sedan with that formula, people defend it. I don't get it.

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If front wheel drive and corporate platforms are good enough for the most expensive Cadillac sedan, then why not make the CTS off the Malibu platform, and the ATS off the Cruze platform. Where does it stop. If Cadillac replaced the current CTS with a car built on the Regal/Malibu platform and gave it a turbo 4, everyone would cry bloody murder. Yet when Cadillac makes their top end sedan with that formula, people defend it. I don't get it.

I don't get it either... I guess they've been brainwashed by 30 years of FWD mediocrity that Detroit embraced.

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Maybe its getting all wheel drive AND all wheel steering.

AWS is a gimick I would not expect to see repeated soon on any car.

Apparently, your sarcasm detector is not working today.

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If front wheel drive and corporate platforms are good enough for the most expensive Cadillac sedan, then why not make the CTS off the Malibu platform, and the ATS off the Cruze platform. Where does it stop. If Cadillac replaced the current CTS with a car built on the Regal/Malibu platform and gave it a turbo 4, everyone would cry bloody murder. Yet when Cadillac makes their top end sedan with that formula, people defend it. I don't get it.

Who says this is their top sedan. With a coming flag ship and a new larger CTS the XTS is just a volume Luxury sedan like the Lexus ES 350.

I defend it for what it is and not make it more than it is. You on the other hand I think are placing this car much higher in the line up than Cadillac. The Car you crave is yet to come and was not started till after GM got the new money.

The fact is GM could not offer the Lacrosse with many of the features on this car and still get anyone to pay the price they would have to ask. They did not offer the Haldex AWD on the Regal because it would have taken the already expensive GS to the level even the die hard fans would have a hard time paying that amount.

The new ATS is based on the same platform used for the Camaro too? Does that cheapen the ATS because it is used with a lesser Chevy?

Edited by hyperv6

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If front wheel drive and corporate platforms are good enough for the most expensive Cadillac sedan, then why not make the CTS off the Malibu platform, and the ATS off the Cruze platform. Where does it stop. If Cadillac replaced the current CTS with a car built on the Regal/Malibu platform and gave it a turbo 4, everyone would cry bloody murder. Yet when Cadillac makes their top end sedan with that formula, people defend it. I don't get it.

Who says this is their top sedan. With a coming flag ship and a new larger CTS the XTS is just a volume Luxury sedan like the Lexus ES 350.

For the time being, it is the top sedan. Nothing else has been announced. Any other flagship is just a rumor at this time. Isn't the LaCrosse the volume luxury sedan that should be competing w/ the ES? That was the Buick marketing angle a while back IIRC..

Now a proper flagship model in the style of Ciel would be an interesting direction...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar

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Who says this is their top sedan. With a coming flag ship and a new larger CTS the XTS is just a volume Luxury sedan like the Lexus ES 350.

I defend it for what it is and not make it more than it is. You on the other hand I think are placing this car much higher in the line up than Cadillac. The Car you crave is yet to come and was not started till after GM got the new money.

The new ATS is based on the same platform used for the Camaro too? Does that cheapen the ATS because it is used with a lesser Chevy?

The XTS will be more expensive than an ATS or CTS, so for the foreseeable future it is their top sedan.

The ATS chassis doesn't exist on any car currently for sale. It it new, and the Camaro will be based off the ATS. That I am fine with, the Camaro is a sports car, they should base it off a sporty platform. And the Camaro will have a basic interior, it won't be at all similar to the Cadillac. I was fine with the XLR and Corvette platform sharing, I thought the XLR was a great looking car too, the interior and performance just fell short of the price tag.

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For the time being, it is the top sedan. Nothing else has been announced. Any other flagship is just a rumor at this time. Isn't the LaCrosse the volume luxury sedan that should be competing w/ the ES? That was the Buick marketing angle a while back IIRC..

Now a proper flagship model in the style of Ciel would be an interesting direction...

That was the marketing angle of the Lacrosse at the time, but my belief was always that the LaCrosse competed with the Avalon, Taurus, Chrysler 300, maybe Maxima and Azera. I never saw Buick as a Lexus competitor, the ES350 bases higher than a CTS, the LaCrosse upon debut based around $26 or 27,000.

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The ATS chassis doesn't exist on any car currently for sale. It it new, and the Camaro will be based off the ATS. That I am fine with, the Camaro is a sports car, they should base it off a sporty platform. And the Camaro will have a basic interior, it won't be at all similar to the Cadillac.

That's the same scenario with the LaCrosse & the XTS; not at all similar.

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The ATS chassis doesn't exist on any car currently for sale. It it new, and the Camaro will be based off the ATS. That I am fine with, the Camaro is a sports car, they should base it off a sporty platform. And the Camaro will have a basic interior, it won't be at all similar to the Cadillac.

That's the same scenario with the LaCrosse & the XTS; not at all similar.

It isn't the same, because the Camaro will be able to have acceleration and handling like a 3-series or G37 so it should match up well against a Mustang, Genesis Coupe, 370Z etc. The platform won't limit the Camaro's performance. The XTS can't handle like other luxury sedans with the same price point. And the LaCrosse has a lot of the features that the XTS has, the Impala has the same engine/transmission. The DTS is a sales dog, and Cadillac just rebuilt the same car on a different platform. Weak effort.

Edited by smk4565
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For what it is, the XTS is a decent car. I'm not as disgusted by it's FWD-ness as I am with the SRX, because it has a pretty decent stance/proportions for a front-driver. I still see the XTS as 1) a Fritz car that was too far along to be stopped and 2) a transitional vehicle for Caddy that could serve to wean the population off of a DTS-like vehicle. Some of the blue-hairs that like the more sedate DTS styling might take their business over to Lexus because Art & Science is too much for them.

The XTS will do well for a couple of years at least, and that could be what Caddy needs to get its flagship ready.

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If people buy 7ers and S-Class' as status symbols and nothing else, GOOD FOR BMW AND MERCEDES. Decades of consistent engineering, design and branding gets you somewhere after all.

The fact that brands like BMW and MB can attract buyers on name alone is a GREAT thing and might have something to do with years and years of consistency. Yet somehow this is reduced to dumb luxury car buyers with more money than brains who don't know or care what wheels drive their car. How could it possibly be perceived as a bad thing that a brand has reached the level of being an aspirational product?

Cadillac might want to think about positioning itself as a marque these mindless idiots will spend their money on based on name alone.

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Who says this is their top sedan. With a coming flag ship and a new larger CTS the XTS is just a volume Luxury sedan like the Lexus ES 350.

I defend it for what it is and not make it more than it is. You on the other hand I think are placing this car much higher in the line up than Cadillac. The Car you crave is yet to come and was not started till after GM got the new money.

The new ATS is based on the same platform used for the Camaro too? Does that cheapen the ATS because it is used with a lesser Chevy?

The XTS will be more expensive than an ATS or CTS, so for the foreseeable future it is their top sedan.

The ATS chassis doesn't exist on any car currently for sale. It it new, and the Camaro will be based off the ATS. That I am fine with, the Camaro is a sports car, they should base it off a sporty platform. And the Camaro will have a basic interior, it won't be at all similar to the Cadillac. I was fine with the XLR and Corvette platform sharing, I thought the XLR was a great looking car too, the interior and performance just fell short of the price tag.

How can I argue with a aman with double standards?

As for price and future it is not the flag ship no matter what. Also how do you know on price? I really don't see this car passing the CTS V in price. That right now is as close to a flag ship as they have.

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XTS is a bean-counter's car - plain and simple.

They probably were wetting themselves at the prospect of replacing two cars with one.

Especially when a mass-market chassis would be the base.

This is Fritz's finest parts-bin special.

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If front wheel drive and corporate platforms are good enough for the most expensive Cadillac sedan, then why not make the CTS off the Malibu platform, and the ATS off the Cruze platform. Where does it stop. If Cadillac replaced the current CTS with a car built on the Regal/Malibu platform and gave it a turbo 4, everyone would cry bloody murder. Yet when Cadillac makes their top end sedan with that formula, people defend it. I don't get it.

This isn't Cadillac's top end sedan. This is Cadillac's largest sedan. Cadillac's top end car has not been it's largest car since at least 1967.

Going backwards chronologically:

CTS-V

STS-V/XLR-V

STS

Allante

Seville/Eldorado

Eldorado

The Deville and Fleetwood haven't been Cadillac's flagship for decades.... RWD or not. In fact, Cadillac's flagships were front wheel drive from 1967 till 2004.

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The ATS chassis doesn't exist on any car currently for sale. It it new, and the Camaro will be based off the ATS. That I am fine with, the Camaro is a sports car, they should base it off a sporty platform. And the Camaro will have a basic interior, it won't be at all similar to the Cadillac.

That's the same scenario with the LaCrosse & the XTS; not at all similar.

It isn't the same, because the Camaro will be able to have acceleration and handling like a 3-series or G37 so it should match up well against a Mustang, Genesis Coupe, 370Z etc. The platform won't limit the Camaro's performance. The XTS can't handle like other luxury sedans with the same price point. And the LaCrosse has a lot of the features that the XTS has, the Impala has the same engine/transmission. The DTS is a sales dog, and Cadillac just rebuilt the same car on a different platform. Weak effort.

You've driven an XTS already? Care to share pics and do a writeup?

You have NO bloody idea what the car handles like. GM was able to get a Cobalt SS to out handle a 3-series and the XTS is FAR more technologically advanced than a Cobalt.

You've gotten in trouble for making assertions you couldn't possibly back up before. Don't start down that path again.

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GM was able to get a Cobalt SS to out handle a 3-series and the XTS is FAR more technologically advanced than a Cobalt.

Does anyone really believe that, though? I've always assumed they faked those numbers...and it's still just a Cobalt..

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there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

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That is one of the most ignorant comments, up there with some of the others' comments who are known to make such. If such is the case then there is no reason to believe any numbers for any cars about lap times on the Ring.

See the comparisons for the car; Car and Driver had it third - when it had better numbers than most - reason Interior. Road and Track had it first when despite lack a LSD it outperformed all. In Car and Driver's lightning lap it even decimated RWD Lexus IS-F, 135i, AWD Evo MR. I have driven one and other than its cheap interiors, the car will makes expensive cars run wimpy and naked when you push it in the corners. Too bad GM made the recipe evaporate.

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there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

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The base price of the XTS will be more than the base price on any other Cadillac sedan. That is what I meant by it will be their top end (or most expensive) car. My guess is the XTS V6 is $10,000 more than a CTS V6.

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there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

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