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William Maley

LA 2011: Cadillac XTS: Comments

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GM was able to get a Cobalt SS to out handle a 3-series and the XTS is FAR more technologically advanced than a Cobalt.

Does anyone really believe that, though? I've always assumed they faked those numbers...and it's still just a Cobalt..

Trust me it was real and the handling is amazing. My top heavy HHR SS has nearly the same suspension and it is so easy to drive fast and hard vs even some RWD cars I have drive.

I have said here many times if engineer Mark Steilow at GM could make the old Delta into a car that handled this good imagine what they can do with a platform if they were given it from the start.

The GM Perforance Division guys are now not just fixing old platforms into performance car they are now tuning the platforms from the start and will also make perfromance version later. The new Cruz while not a perfromance car is a very capable sedan in it class. It rides and handle as well or better than many more expensive cars. You will find from this point out GM suspensions will be well tuned in all levels and price ranges. Even the Sonic has garnered praise for it handling already.

This car with the bits and parts going in and with what the other new GM cars are showing I expect it to be a very well balanced and tuned car. The Magnaride is something that can make tuning a car amazing. It is a very useful tool we wil see in more GM vehicles as times goes on.

As they Say in the TV spot Ferrari is borrowing something from Cadillac and I might add for good reason as the system really works.

I feel it is safe to say whole the XTS may have a few short comings based on the present platform I epxect ride and handling to be neither of the complains we will hear about. Based on the many new GM suspensions being praised and the equipment being used here they should do a good job on this. If the Lacrosse as it is has been praised the new bits on this car will only make it better.

The base price of the XTS will be more than the base price on any other Cadillac sedan. That is what I meant by it will be their top end (or most expensive) car. My guess is the XTS V6 is $10,000 more than a CTS V6.

Have you see the pricing yet?

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there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

Do you really think John Heinricy would let them edit his lap.

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Do you really think John Heinricy would let them edit his lap.

Who knows what really happens w/ these things. I'm just skeptical....I just don't think much of small FWD cars. Anyway, it's irrelevant to the XTS. Will be interesting to see how the XTS turns out.

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there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

Yeah, if the Cobalt were so great, it would still be here. I never drove an SS model, but the base Cobalt was miserable to drive.

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there is video I believe. the point isn't what the cobalt "is", Nicer dash materials don't change handling characteristics.

This is, of course, correct.

"Faking" such a thing isn't really possible.

Video can be edited... anyway, it's a moot point since the Cobalt is defunct...no one cares.

Yeah, if the Cobalt were so great, it would still be here. I never drove an SS model, but the base Cobalt was miserable to drive.

I've had a couple as rentals..noisy and hard plastics inside. Nothing special, but much better than the Cavaliers that I've driven in the past.

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As they Say in the TV spot Ferrari is borrowing something from Cadillac and I might add for good reason as the system really works.

The base price of the XTS will be more than the base price on any other Cadillac sedan. That is what I meant by it will be their top end (or most expensive) car. My guess is the XTS V6 is $10,000 more than a CTS V6.

Have you see the pricing yet?

The Ferrari borrowing from Cadillac reminds me of Suzuki Kizashi comparison ads, or Lexus IS350 ads saying they have more horsepower than a C-class. It just shows how they are followers when they have to try to convince people they are in an elite class. Think of a Mercedes S-class ad (or any Merc ad really) what car do they compare the S-class to??? No car, they already know the S-class is the best car in the world and has been for 30-40 years, the competition doesn't matter.

On the 2nd point, I have not seen pricing, that is why I said "my guess" is $10,000 more than a CTS, and I posted earlier $46,500 was what I thought the base price would be.

I've had a couple as rentals..noisy and hard plastics inside. Nothing special, but much better than the Cavaliers that I've driven in the past.

Agreed. My first car was a Cavalier and the Cobalt was better of course. But by 2011 standards, the Cobalt is pretty much was the Cavalier was in the 90s.

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The Lacrosse is already a more than competent handler. I've chased an Altima Coupe up a twisty road in a Lacrosse CXS that was built before Hi-Per strut.

Now add magnetic ride control, one of the best AWD systems out there (that can be tuned for RWD bias even in a FWD based car), and Hi-Per strut....

I am NOT saying that it will take on an M5 on the 'Ring, but it will likely more than match any E350 or 528i in feel.

and that is all it need do.

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The XTS isn't going to match a 528i, an ES350 sure, I think Jeremy Clarkson said every Lexus sedan is like driving a bucket of wall paper paste, and I imagine he is correct.

If the XTS is $39,000 then handling to beat a LaCrosse, Lincoln, ES350 is fine and will be all those buyers want. At $50k, you can get a 5-series or E-class or A6, Infiniti M, etc. Once you get against the big boys you better bring the A-game.

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The A6 is FWD based. I know, I've driven a FWD diesel A6 on the Autobahn. The FWD Lacrosse is at least equal to that now.

I have not driven an A6, but have driven the A4. I think an A4 Quattro has better handling than a CTS, it at least feels more nimble, but it is smaller and lighter. The CTS does have better ride though. I have not driven the LaCrosse, but I know it doesn't handle better than a CTS. I doubt a LaCrosse can keep up with an A6 Quattro, which is a pretty solid car. Personally though I don't care for the A6, and neither do many other people since the E-class and 5-series outsell it about 8 to 1. Maybe Audi needs to dump that platform and make a true RWD car.

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Lacrosse 3.6 V6 AWD v. Audi A6 3.0T Quattro would be matched up pretty close. Same weight, same wheel base, the Audi has a little more torque at a lot lower RPM and could probably outrun the Buick, slightly, on the straightaways.

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Lacrosse 3.6 V6 AWD v. Audi A6 3.0T Quattro would be matched up pretty close. Same weight, same wheel base, the Audi has a little more torque at a lot lower RPM and could probably outrun the Buick, slightly, on the straightaways.

The A6 3.0T Quattro does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. That is over a full second quicker than a LaCrosse, that is much quicker than a CTS even. The Audi would run 4 rings around a Buick, a CTS AWD would probably struggle to keep up with an A6. Plus the A6 interior is better than any American car interior. Although I personally don't like Audis, they do a few things well.

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THE PENALTY OF LEADERSHIP

In every field of human endeavour, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man’s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work be mediocre, he will be left severely alone - if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongues a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius. Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountback, long after the big would had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy - but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions - envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. If the leader truly leads, he remains - the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live - lives.

Cadillac ad 1915 Saturday Evening Post.

Lets just lay the cards on let the car show what it can do and what the public thinks as it is their opionion not ours here that count. So lets just put this to the ultimate test and let the market decide who is right!.

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Cadillac isn't a leader, but the frustrating thing is they could be up in the conversation with BMW and Mercedes. Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Lincoln, and even Audi have flaws that Cadillac could be and should be exploiting. If they added $10,000 to the base price of the CTS it would allow them to equip the car so that it can go against the A6, M, 5-series, E-class. Problem is I think that is where they will price the XTS, then you have the DTS-STS price overlap all over again, just with different models.

The ATS is what I am waiting for, it is a Cadillac I might actually want to buy. But my fear there is they cheap it out too much to keep the price under the where the CTS sits now. The 2012 3-series pricing basically matches the CTS, so does the ATS cost as much as a CTS or does it become a poor man's 3-series with compromises.

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I am sick and tired of every thread becoming a GM bashing, RWD praising, any brand other than GM humping pointless tirades. There is no constructive discussion left on the website anymore.

At the start of the thread, there were some very valid points regarding the design changes and ideological inaccuracies of the car countered by valid reasons of sales numbers and easy money necessary to keep the brand alive.

If GM cannot do anything right, and other manufacturers do, then this is not the forum for you, move on and join those forums. There is one thing to point mistakes and talk constructively and then there is other to just constantly keeping on bitching, moaning, and whining about anything GM does.

this.

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Lacrosse 3.6 V6 AWD v. Audi A6 3.0T Quattro would be matched up pretty close. Same weight, same wheel base, the Audi has a little more torque at a lot lower RPM and could probably outrun the Buick, slightly, on the straightaways.

The A6 3.0T Quattro does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. That is over a full second quicker than a LaCrosse, that is much quicker than a CTS even. The Audi would run 4 rings around a Buick, a CTS AWD would probably struggle to keep up with an A6. Plus the A6 interior is better than any American car interior. Although I personally don't like Audis, they do a few things well.

keep it on f@#king topic. We are talking handling here. The Buick could have a cardboard interior and then Audi have one built from f@#king angel farts but it would have no f@#king bearing on how either car handles. We are addressing your STUPID assertion that the XTS is automatically inferior in handling to the Audi despite them BOTH being front wheel drive. If you hate GM so much, why are you here?

Magnetic ride control is what lets the heavier CTS run with the lighter M3 to the point where any differences are the result of driver error.

I'm driving a Hi-Per strut Regal GS this week and there is NO torque steer from a 295 ft-lb front driver.

You simply haven't got a clue because you HAVEN'T DRIVEN THESE CARS.

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Even just on handling alone, I'd take an Audi over a Buick. The A4 is pretty similar to the CTS as far as handling, but the A4 is firmer, probably has less body roll (but it is lighter too). I can't see any Buick handling like a CTS. I'd actually be interested in driving a Regal or LaCrosse to see how far GM fwd has come since cars like the Aurora, Seville STS, Grand Prix GTP, Malibu, 9-5 Aero because I have driven all those. But I am driving my last fwd car, and my next car will be rwd, so I haven't bothered to look at anything fwd.

I am not anti front wheel drive, for compacts and mainstream sedans it is great, for the demographic that buys an ES350 and doesn't want power and performance it suits their needs. But Cadillac should build "Standard of the World," take magnetic ride, hyperstruts, air springs, etc and put that on a rear drive chassis. I'd like to see them take the CTS-V suspension and put it on the base model ATS and go BMW hunting, but the bean counters won't allow that.

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But Cadillac should build "Standard of the World," take magnetic ride, hyperstruts, air springs, etc and put that on a rear drive chassis.

They ARE. It's just not this car. Cadillac can not offer more than one vehicle type at a time?! The RWD flagship wasn't even given the go ahead till Whitacre became CEO. It is also going to be on an entirely new platform. You don't get a new platform like you download apps on your phone. They take time to build and develop.

In the meantime, Cadillac dealers need more than CTS, SRX, Escalade to sell.

There is no need for hi-per strut on a RWD vehicle. There will be an ATS-V using Magaride, but probably not air springs. But why should Cadillac give away one of their signature technologies on a base ATS? They can already go BMW hunting in a Cobalt SS... no need for Magnaride.

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But in 2005 after the CTS, XLR, STS, and SRX were on sale, they did the DTS rehash for 2006 and an Escalade update also. Why in 2006 were they not planning for the next generation of rear drive Cadillacs? It is like they re-did the CTS and let the rest die on the vine. To me the most frustrating thing about Cadillac is they won't get the model line in order, like you said, they have CTS, SRX and Escalade right now. It seems like even with 4 brands GM can't keep the pipelines full. BMW has had that 3, 5, 7 set up since the 80s, after 30 years Cadillac is still trying to get to the small, medium, large sedan line going, and they keep fumbling the ball.

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But in 2005 after the CTS, XLR, STS, and SRX were on sale, they did the DTS rehash for 2006 and an Escalade update also. Why in 2006 were they not planning for the next generation of rear drive Cadillacs? It is like they re-did the CTS and let the rest die on the vine. To me the most frustrating thing about Cadillac is they won't get the model line in order, like you said, they have CTS, SRX and Escalade right now. It seems like even with 4 brands GM can't keep the pipelines full. BMW has had that 3, 5, 7 set up since the 80s, after 30 years Cadillac is still trying to get to the small, medium, large sedan line going, and they keep fumbling the ball.

They were. There is a lot of evidence, pictures, and documents of Cadillac working on a RWD Platform (Zeta) vehicle for a true flagship that most of us of us WANT. But then there this little thing called BANKRUPTCY which wiped the slate clean and cause many GM projects to be canned or revised. One of those projects canned was the RWD Cadillac flagship.

The bankruptcy put GM back a few years in their product cycle and caused them to take a closer look at what they're doing.

Is the XTS the true savior of Cadillac? No.

The XTS does give GM/Cadillac something they desperately need: TIME. Time to get the the rumored RWD Flagship ready by mid-decade. Time to figure out what other models Cadillac needs to build up.

The bankruptcy really screwed up GM's product plans. The RWD nirvana that a good amount of people want is coming, but not soon as we think.

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But in 2005 after the CTS, XLR, STS, and SRX were on sale, they did the DTS rehash for 2006 and an Escalade update also. Why in 2006 were they not planning for the next generation of rear drive Cadillacs? It is like they re-did the CTS and let the rest die on the vine. To me the most frustrating thing about Cadillac is they won't get the model line in order, like you said, they have CTS, SRX and Escalade right now. It seems like even with 4 brands GM can't keep the pipelines full. BMW has had that 3, 5, 7 set up since the 80s, after 30 years Cadillac is still trying to get to the small, medium, large sedan line going, and they keep fumbling the ball.

Did you not notice GM was out of money.

A fumble here would be not to have a new product in the show room for 4 more years. The DTS could not go on any longer and there was just not enough time to get a new platform for the XTS yet. Do you leave the slot empty like they did with the Camaro or do you take a program that was aready well underway and improve it with new and better technology and use it in the market to fill the showroom till the car you want can be properly designed and built?

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Nice to have some allies here again... but geeze, when you manage to even piss mudmonster off...

I think most of us had your back on this one. It was clear who is informed and who is not.

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