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William Maley

Cadillac News: Spying: Cadillac CTS

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The point of the XT$ is money.

The Town Car was a cash cow for Ford. GM already had much of the basic work and money invested in the XTS. They can sell this as the Volume car and target the other three lines to specific buyers who don't want to see their car in fleet sales.

The XT$ may not advance Cadillac technology or Image wise but it will do no harm money wise.

Lexus offers the 250 also as a car for those who demand FWD. For just being a tarted up Camry it still brings in money and does little harm to the image.

Fact remains there are many who will not buy a RWD car. While it is smaller in this segment as most also have a suv at home for winter there are some who still want FWD. Their money is green too.

Edited by hyperv6
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What I find most amusing is the people bitching about it most are those driving 100k mile cars and will never buy a flagship from ANYONE.

That's kind of a low blow and not relevant to the topic at hand.

Well you're not buying an S-Class, a 7-series, or an XTS anytime soon are you? There is a predilection on C&G to pre-judge cars and to declare anything that doesn't fit the person's definition of "a good car" as a crap car that will never ever sell.

SMK and you have both been proven wrong by the SRX and Lacrosse. GM clearly has a better read on the market than you two do.

As I've told SMK in the past I will tell you too. You cannot judge the future success of the XTS on the efforts of it's competition. The MKS wasn't built well and its sales figures reflect that. It has nothing to do with FWD/RWD and everything to do with the fact that the driver can see the foam insulation inside the HVAC vents while in a normal seating position. The Acura RL sells terrible, not because it is FWD based, but because it is a styling dud and offers very little over an Accord DeLuxe in terms of... anything.

The XTS, if they build it right, will do well.

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Last I looked, and to Pauli's dismay, the Lacrosse is holding its value pretty well.

Alas, yes... was hoping to snatch one up dirt cheap, but unlike the last gen LaX, this one is retaining its value rather well.

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Last I looked, and to Pauli's dismay, the Lacrosse is holding its value pretty well.

Alas, yes... was hoping to snatch one up dirt cheap, but unlike the last gen LaX, this one is retaining its value rather well.

Its not just the LaX... with higher gas prices, the extinction of large cars being manufactured and C4C removing a lot of serviceable large cars from the used car pool, decent cars LaX sized and above are hard to find.

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What I find most amusing is the people bitching about it most are those driving 100k mile cars and will never buy a flagship from ANYONE.

That's kind of a low blow and not relevant to the topic at hand.

Well you're not buying an S-Class, a 7-series, or an XTS anytime soon are you? There is a predilection on C&G to pre-judge cars and to declare anything that doesn't fit the person's definition of "a good car" as a crap car that will never ever sell.

SMK and you have both been proven wrong by the SRX and Lacrosse. GM clearly has a better read on the market than you two do.

As I've told SMK in the past I will tell you too. You cannot judge the future success of the XTS on the efforts of it's competition.

It's laughable how many believe a great majority of consumers shop for cars by overall length or which wheels drive.

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What I find most amusing is the people bitching about it most are those driving 100k mile cars and will never buy a flagship from ANYONE.

That's kind of a low blow and not relevant to the topic at hand.

Well you're not buying an S-Class, a 7-series, or an XTS anytime soon are you? There is a predilection on C&G to pre-judge cars and to declare anything that doesn't fit the person's definition of "a good car" as a crap car that will never ever sell.

SMK and you have both been proven wrong by the SRX and Lacrosse. GM clearly has a better read on the market than you two do.

As I've told SMK in the past I will tell you too. You cannot judge the future success of the XTS on the efforts of it's competition.

It's laughable how many believe a great majority of consumers shop for cars by overall length or which wheels drive.

I can guarantee ALL BUT TWO of my friends know which wheels drive their cars. They don't know, and they don't care. And one of the two who knows, but doesn't care.

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It's laughable how many believe a great majority of consumers shop for cars by overall length or which wheels drive.

The great majority of consumers are sheep that only believe what is written in Consumer Reports. Cadillac is supposed to be above that... a luxury brand, not pushing common, mainstream FWD appliances..Cadillac should .leave the appliances to Chevy and Buick and focus on serious, RWD luxury cars.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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Sheep have money too.

Many BMW's are sold to people who have no clue on the performance nature and just buy them for the image.

In fact they made a crap load of money off the old 318's to people who had no clue.

The XTS is short term as I do not expect it to be around forever. Even if it does last it may be sold as a fleet machine just as the Captiva and the Caprice. That is unless there is enough pubic demand GM could leave it avail to the public even longer. There are still a lot of people out there that love cars like this. Lexus has made a crap load of money off the 250.

Either way it will be nice for Cadillac to have a 3rd car in the show room as it will still take some time for a flagship. This a no harm car and will bring in easy money. That is the point of selling cars is it not?

At least with FWD/AWD/RWD there is no reason that anyone should leave the showroom looking for something that is not offered.

You have to look at this big picture not from an enthusiast point of veiw.

Edited by hyperv6
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Yeah XTS should only be a 1 Gen car, as Caddy intros the flagship and others roll out this kind of car can go to Buick as the pricing will be wrong for Caddy by then

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It's laughable how many believe a great majority of consumers shop for cars by overall length or which wheels drive.

The great majority of consumers are sheep that only believe what is written in Consumer Reports. Cadillac is supposed to be above that... a luxury brand, not pushing common, mainstream FWD appliances..Cadillac should .leave the appliances to Chevy and Buick and focus on serious, RWD luxury cars.

You aren't addressing some nebulous, upper-tier market slice of spec-conscious enthusiasts, but a micro-NICHE. Cadillac is not tesla or fisker, and neither is BMW or mercedees- the vast majority of their vast volume of consumers are EXACTLY like Paulie's friends.

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You aren't addressing some nebulous, upper-tier market slice of spec-conscious enthusiasts, but a micro-NICHE. Cadillac is not tesla or fisker, and neither is BMW or mercedees- the vast majority of their vast volume of consumers are EXACTLY like Paulie's friends.

WIth BMW and M-B, though, the vast majority of their cars are proper RWD luxury cars, not FWD appliances. That is the difference, and it makes all the difference in the world... I couldn't imagine paying $60k let alone $30k for a FWD appliance. FWD is fine for cheap appliances, but not for anything serious...maybe it's a generational thing and all the younger buyers have grown up w/ FWD and don't know any better...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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Sheep have money too.

Many BMW's are sold to people who have no clue on the performance nature and just buy them for the image.

In fact they made a crap load of money off the old 318's to people who had no clue.

The XTS is short term as I do not expect it to be around forever. Even if it does last it may be sold as a fleet machine just as the Captiva and the Caprice. That is unless there is enough pubic demand GM could leave it avail to the public even longer. There are still a lot of people out there that love cars like this. Lexus has made a crap load of money off the 250.

I don't think the ES has been a 250 in over 10 years...it's the 350 currently..and GM has Buick to sell such models..and again, BMW and M-B don't have such things in their lineups...3,5,6,7....C-,E-,CLS-, S-class...all RWD goodness w/ no mainstream FWD in sight.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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Anyway, enough of my tangent. Back to the thread topic, it's going to be interesting to see what they do w/ the next CTS...can't tell much from the spy pics but it looks evolutionary from the current model...maybe it will have some rounded edges like the ATS...

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Sorry I ment ES350 as it is nothing more than a warmed over Toyota.

The whole thing boils down to the fact GM had the XTS done for the most part. They did not have a flag ship or any other RWD in the works till well after the chapter 11. Buick already has a Lacross. The simple fact is Cadillac has one car and only one more new one ready to go into production being the ATS.

So do they duplicate the car over at Buick or do they add somethings to it that could not be had on a Buick and make some money with a third model for a few years?

Cadillac has not been and still is not BMW or Benz. To become one of this class will take time and money.

I feel it Cadillac will be better served with a left over FWD/AWD transition car vs living off one car and a bunch of chomed Chevy [but profitable] SUV's.

Once Cadillac get the larger car ready we will see the XTS fade away. In time Cadillac will become what you want but till then they just don't have the finished product.

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CTS is the right size on the outside, but too small on the inside. I was at the Pittsburgh Auto show today and yesterday, sat in the E-class both days, it feels much more roomy than a CTS and the cars are the same size. Even a Sonata or Optima feels roomier than a CTS does. With better space management, I think the exterior of the CTS can stay the same size and interior can grow. The cramped interior needs to be addressed. I even heard many people saying the CTS was too small for them and they want a bigger car. I think the interior fools them into thinking the CTS is smaller than it actually is.

I got a good look at the XTS, the lady said pricing was expected to be $45-60k. The XTS doesn't look as big as it is, which is good, because the MKS looks bigger than it is, and looks ridiculous. The interior looked nice (could not sit in it), but not as well made as an E-class or 5-series. It is better than a Lexus or Acura interior of that price range, but that isn't saying much. I can tell old guys that want a roomy car and don't want to drive over 55 mph will like the XTS. But that demographic isn't a big one, as witnessed by STS/DTS and MKS/Town Car sales.

On a side note, the new M5 looks spectacular and the difference between that and a CTS-V is dramatic. The M5's brakes are more impressive than the whole CTS-V. CTS-V looks so tacky, and the build quality isn't very good either.

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Are Audis including the A8 just FWD appliances? Don't give me that crap about which way the engine is mounted, it doesn't matter a hill of beans now with Hi-Per strut. The weight balance of an A8 and Lacrosse AWD are nearly identical.

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Are Audis including the A8 just FWD appliances? Don't give me that crap about which way the engine is mounted, it doesn't matter a hill of beans now with Hi-Per strut. The weight balance of an A8 and Lacrosse AWD are nearly identical.

Audis don't sell very well in the USA. They appeal to the luxury customer that wants sub-dued styling and AWD because they think it is safe, and perhaps like the fuel economy of a small displacement, boosted engine. There is a market for that type of car, but it isn't the biggest segment of buyers.

And the A7 has a disappointing interior for what it costs, and a 310 hp 3.0 liter V6 at $77,000, I think not. The Cadillac press person even mentioned how the XTS has more interior room than an Audi A6 (which I would hope since the XTS is far bigger) but if they are looking to steal A6 sales, how many are there to steal. No one buys an A6, or an Acura RL or Volvo S80. But the XTS will get sales of the 70+ crowd that only buys American because there are no other big American cars left, expect for the terrible MKS.

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Are Audis including the A8 just FWD appliances? Don't give me that crap about which way the engine is mounted, it doesn't matter a hill of beans now with Hi-Per strut. The weight balance of an A8 and Lacrosse AWD are nearly identical.

Audis are AWD in the US. And except for the A3, they don't have transverse engines and thus don't suffer from the weak too-short front wheel-to-door distance that transverse FWD models suffer from..their proportions are closer to RWD..

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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What they are doesn't matter, what they're based on is what counts..... or so you've told me. So what you're saying is that if Cadillac sold the SRX as only AWD, yours and SMK's bitchfest about the second best selling mid-size luxury crossover would end? Somehow, I don't think it would.

When you're done chewing on that one, talk to me about the front-wheel to door distance at Audi

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Thanks for posting. Appears to be the concept XTS, not sure if the production car's proportions match it. Notice the base of the windshield stretches over the wheel arch on the Cadillac, whereas the Audi's stops fully behind.

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.... which is a function of greenhouse design... Not drive train layout... See new new VW Beetle.

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The A4/5/6/7 have better proportions than the A8, but the A8 isn't bad...doesn't look like a typical weak FWD profile.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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A8 is a much better car than XTS... regardless of powertrain layout. And besides the A8's engine is mounted longitudinally, which allows for a predictable full-time Torsen AWD system.

None of which actually matters, because the XTS is Cadillac's ES350. It will sell by virtue of being large, cushy, and inexpensive compared to its similarly sized European rivals. Engineering a $100K Cadillac supersedan at this time simply doesn't make sense.

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.... which is a function of greenhouse design... Not drive train layout...

True- look at the 'Steering Wheel to A-Pillar Base' of each. :wacko:

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