Has anyone seen the new XTS commercials?

[riviera74]

It seems to me that the new XTS commercials I have seen in the last week or so emphasize CUE and the interior as opposed to any semblance of performance.

Here are a few videos via YouTube for you to judge for yourself.

[ClassyEldo]

The XTS ads appear well done, in my opinion. I think the XTS should emphasize luxury and contemporary features--the high quality interior and the ease of using CUE infotainment. There is quite an emphasis on safety features, too. There will be time to develop ride and performance ads relative to the XTS in the future.

[ocnblu]

I think the ads are pretty good. I don't believe Cadillac is positioning the XTS as a performance car, I think the entertainment factor in this car will be the gadgets and that's it, really.

[David]

For this line of car, I think they hit the advertising on the head. This should be about luxury, ease of use and comfort. I believe they have nailed it for the demographic of Customer.

[smk4565]

It is good that they highlight CUE, it is all this car has to highlight, but I don't think the typical Cadillac buyer is of the iPad generation. And I know Cadillac wants to get the iPad generation into their showrooms, but I don't think these ads will do it. So they still need to draw in the loyalists, which these ads don't do as much. Interesting how they mention the E-class in the first ad, is that the XTS's main competition? And the E-class has a laundry list of things the XTS doesn't.

[Robert Hall]

It is good that they highlight CUE, it is all this car has to highlight, but I don't think the typical Cadillac buyer is of the iPad generation. And I know Cadillac wants to get the iPad generation into their showrooms, but I don't think these ads will do it. So they still need to draw in the loyalists, which these ads don't do as much. Interesting how they mention the E-class in the first ad, is that the XTS's main competition? And the E-class has a laundry list of things the XTS doesn't.

That is odd they would mention the E-class...the XTS' main competition is the ES and MKS, I would think.

[Drew Dowdell]

MKS yes, but XTS is out of the ES price and options range.

[Robert Hall]

MKS yes, but XTS is out of the ES price and options range.

Same formula, though...FWD V6 on a platform shared w/ mainstream models..both have about the same wheelbase, the XTS has longer overhangs.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

That means the 7-series and G8 are totally competitors then...

[Robert Hall]

That means the 7-series and G8 are totally competitors then...

No...but the ES and XTS are more similar than different. The ES is the only Lexus the XTS is comparable to, since the GS and LS are RWD.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Just because it is the only FWD Lexus doesn't make them equivalents. Using that same logic, the G8 is still a 7-series fighter because it was the only RWD Pontiac sedan.

The ES is a Lacrosse competitor. The XTS is a whole class above those two based on technology and options. The XTS has Magnaride, a limited slip rear differential on AWD models, CUE, a vastly better interior (the new ES didn't move the ball forward at ALL), the wheelbase of the XTS is exactly half way between the E-class and ES. The ES isn't even using Direct Injection engines yet.

[Robert Hall]

the wheelbase of the XTS is exactly half way between the E-class and ES.

Not quite..the XTS wheelbase is 0.6 longer than the ES, 1.4 inches shorter than the E class.

Just because it is the only FWD Lexus doesn't make them equivalents. Using that same logic, the G8 is still a 7-series fighter because it was the only RWD Pontiac sedan.

Wrong. The G8 and 7 series weren't comparable because BMW and Pontiac weren't comparable. BMW and Cadillac are comparable brands, just as Lexus and Cadillac are comparable brands (both premium brands). But the XTS doesn't compare to anything at BMW or Mercedes because of the mainstream FWD platform. The Lincoln MKS, ES, maybe Volvo S80 and Acura RL are the competitors in it's niche.

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing them in person. Just got a postcard from the local Caddy store introducing the XTS (shown in black on black).

Edited June 30, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ Buyers don't care about FWD / RWD. They also generally don't know which their cars feature.

They MIGHT care a bit more on AWD vs. non-AWD, tho, THAT they can comprehend (usually).

[Robert Hall]

^ Buyers don't care about FWD / RWD. They also generally don't know which their cars feature.

They MIGHT care a bit more on AWD vs. non-AWD, tho, THAT they can comprehend (usually).

That's just ignorance.

[balthazar]

"Reality is complex".

[Drew Dowdell]

Most buyers don't even know that engines can be turned 90 degrees. All they know is from their Mickey Mouse cartoons growing up what an engine might look like. Most 1-series drivers thought they were buying a FWD car!

[smk4565]

The ES is a Lacrosse competitor. The XTS is a whole class above those two based on technology and options. The XTS has Magnaride, a limited slip rear differential on AWD models, CUE, a vastly better interior (the new ES didn't move the ball forward at ALL), the wheelbase of the XTS is exactly half way between the E-class and ES. The ES isn't even using Direct Injection engines yet.

I don't think the ES is really a LaCrosse competitor. The LaCrosse is $30,000, the 2013 ES350 is $38,000 (estimated), and the XTS is $45,000. The LaCrosse isn't up-market enough, nor does it have a true luxury badge to really compete with the ES head on. Likewise the ES is a bit smaller and cheaper than the XTS. I can however see people cross shopping the ES350 against a high end LaCrosse or base XTS. It is like shopping vanilla ice cream from Breyers, Haggan Daas and Ben and Jerry's, it is basically all the same, just different package and price.

The Toyota Avalon actually carries a higher price tag than the LaCrosse, I see that as Buick's competition. Of Lexus models, the ES350 is closest to the XTS, and I don't really see the XTS competing too directly with any German sedan. MKS is very similar in size and pricing.

[Robert Hall]

Most buyers don't even know that engines can be turned 90 degrees. All they know is from their Mickey Mouse cartoons growing up what an engine might look like. Most 1-series drivers thought they were buying a FWD car!

Again, that is just ignorance on the part of consumers. The blind acceptance of transverse engine FWD mediocrity is part of the dumbing down of society.

[hyperv6]

This is a car that is a bridge from the past to the future for some Cadillac owners.

It mixes some of the old from the DTS with the new features Cadillac will supply to new models.

Also the fact that when this car was concieved before they got the bail out. Once bailed out GM could move their eyes to the goal they really wanted not just what they could afford.

SInce it was pretty much done and an LTS is far off they will use it for extra income vs dead showroom space till other models are ready. In time the XTS will play the Captiva card and take the resale fleet bullet that will be spared from the ATS and CTS.

Lincoln is doing mostly XTS like cars because they can not afford to invest much with as much money as they are pumping into the Ford line. They chose to fix Ford first and then Lincoln. Even now the LIncoln people are fighting for the new Mustang platform for their own use as they are even tired of waiting for the funding to come to them. They know they may not make it if they are left to hang out to dry too long.

The XTS is not a peformance car, it is not a Euro car and it is pretty much in a class of it's own for now. It could be transformed later or replaced as time will tell.

[Robert Hall]

The thing that gets me is that the XTS has a wheelbase almost 2 inches shorter than the CTS and is barely 0.4 inches wider. That is so wrong...a shortcoming of using the weak FWD Epsilon II platform, I guess..being above the CTS, it should have a considerably longer wheelbase and be several inches wider..the old DTS was better in that respect.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

Put in those terms, I do not see the XTS as "above" the CTS. If anything, it is at best lateral, if not downhill slightly. It's just different and not better.

[smk4565]

Put in those terms, I do not see the XTS as "above" the CTS. If anything, it is at best lateral, if not downhill slightly. It's just different and not better.

Although Cadillac is charging $10,000 more for an XTS than a CTS. And if they increase the CTS $10,000 in price, what does that do to CTS sales, and what happens when 2 cars with the same price are on the same showroom floor. That strategy didn't bode well for the DTS and STS.

[Robert Hall]

Put in those terms, I do not see the XTS as "above" the CTS. If anything, it is at best lateral, if not downhill slightly. It's just different and not better.

True, maybe above in terms of the brand heirachy...i.e. ATS->CTS->XTS. The way the STS and DTS were above the CTS. I agree, though, with the narrowness, short wheelbase, and inferior platform, it's definitely more parallel and in it's own track, like the ES is separate from the IS->GS->LS heirarchy.

[smk4565]

Also the fact that when this car was concieved before they got the bail out. Once bailed out GM could move their eyes to the goal they really wanted not just what they could afford.

So basically (to steal a line from The Dark Knight), the XTS isn't the flagship they deserved, but the flagship they needed right now.

[Robert Hall]

Also the fact that when this car was concieved before they got the bail out. Once bailed out GM could move their eyes to the goal they really wanted not just what they could afford.

So basically (to steal a line from The Dark Knight), the XTS isn't the flagship they deserved, but the flagship they needed right now.

Yeah...at some point, though, GM can't keep using bankruptcy as an excuse..they have to strive for world-class excellence for Cadillac or else be content to compete w/ Lincoln.

[hyperv6]

The XTC is in no relation to the CTS. The XTS is just different and is in it's own class. If fills that void between the older dying [figuratively and literally] Cadillac customer and younger expanding youth market.

The DTS is the past of Cadillac other than a handfull of diehards like my mother inlaw there is little market for this kind of car anylonger. Cadillac just took what they had already had done and tweeked it with new technology and some other bits to buy time till the ATS, new CTS and LTS hit the market. It also will be kept around in the Captiva mode to protect the resale value of the other Cadillacs. There is little mystey to this.

There is no bankruptcy excuse here with the XTS as it just fill an empty show room with what they had on the shelf that could be here before 2016 or so. The Excuses stop with the LTS and that is why it will take time to get this one right. Yes they could have rushed the program underfunded to get it on the market sooner but then it would be like many of the past attempts at being good but not good enough.

I think we all know here that it will take time to fix Cadillac and to do it right will take even more money. Where is that money coming from? Truck sales and do we have a new truck and SUV coming to help generate more cash coming in .....yes.

I also expect people to see a much different Cadillac in the ATS and new CTS as they will be more than they need to be when they hit the market. We already know that GM has attacked the ATS with the cronic weight issue they have always had and that will carry over to reductions in weight with the new CTS. I also expect many of the nit pick things will be addressed too. The coming road test will be telling on the progress at Cadillas. Even the road test of the XTS by Autoweek was telling. While the XTS is not their kind of car they were impressed with it and really found little fault. If they could do that on the Lacross platform they can do wonders with the Alpha that was developed with them in mind from the starts.

I feel the good review on the XTS should tell us that the new Impala should be well recieved too.

[smk4565]

Cadillac has had years (and in reality decades) to get it right. In 2002 when they started with the CTS, STS, XLR and SRX that was supposed to be the product wave and that flopped. There is nothing to indicate that the ATS and next gen CTS won't just be more of the same. When they redid the Deville and decided to call it DTS in 2006, that was supposed to be a stop gap and 6 years later, yet another. Who's to say that in 2018 there isn't a new version of the XTS and the CTS failed to go up market, so it has to go back down to where it is now, and the ATS is striped down to fight the Acura TSX and Audi A3.

Not saying that that will happen, but I think it is just as possible as Cadillac moving up to take on BMW and Mercedes.

[ocnblu]

Good one hyper, but I do not feel a wave of XTC when I look at the XTS.

[hyperv6]

Cadillac has had years (and in reality decades) to get it right. In 2002 when they started with the CTS, STS, XLR and SRX that was supposed to be the product wave and that flopped. There is nothing to indicate that the ATS and next gen CTS won't just be more of the same. When they redid the Deville and decided to call it DTS in 2006, that was supposed to be a stop gap and 6 years later, yet another. Who's to say that in 2018 there isn't a new version of the XTS and the CTS failed to go up market, so it has to go back down to where it is now, and the ATS is striped down to fight the Acura TSX and Audi A3.

Not saying that that will happen, but I think it is just as possible as Cadillac moving up to take on BMW and Mercedes.

Cadillac has had years (and in reality decades) to get it right. In 2002 when they started with the CTS, STS, XLR and SRX that was supposed to be the product wave and that flopped. There is nothing to indicate that the ATS and next gen CTS won't just be more of the same. When they redid the Deville and decided to call it DTS in 2006, that was supposed to be a stop gap and 6 years later, yet another. Who's to say that in 2018 there isn't a new version of the XTS and the CTS failed to go up market, so it has to go back down to where it is now, and the ATS is striped down to fight the Acura TSX and Audi A3.

Not saying that that will happen, but I think it is just as possible as Cadillac moving up to take on BMW and Mercedes.

Well you look to have no clue again.

Everything up to the Chapter 11 has been a compromise of costs. They never could do fully what they wanted or intended. Even the present CTS is better but compromised.

The indication this have changed with the Alpha is it had the proper funding to get what it needed to have from the start. This platform is the first to be done post Chapter 11 and will show the merits of the extra funding. The weight loss alone is a sign that they took the time and money to do what they needed to do and could not afford to do in the past. The rest I expect will unfold with the first road test.

It clear Cadillac has to put the right no compromised product out now. They have to move lower volume higher price to make it. The whole GM plan for Buick hinges on the fact Cadillac has to move up. If Cadillac stays where they are at they will die along with Buick.

The DTS was not a stop gap it was just what they could put together with the platform and parts they had in hand. The car was out of touch with where the majority of the buyer and just made the old school buyers happy. GM needed money so they did what they could do,

The Fact is GM compromised nearly everything they built. Why did the 4th gen Camaro's have crappy interiors and bad window motors. They did not have enough money to finish the cars. This was the case for nearly every model GM made. Why did the Vette have crappy interiors same thing etc. When you are told this from a GM brand manager it should tell you much of why there were issues. Nearly all of GM's line up pre ATS took short custs some where. While Lutz made improments he still did not have the money to do all he wanted to do. He fixed much of the styling and tried to improve the interiors but he could not afford to cut weight and other things needed to be done as they could not afford a new platform.

GM was so short money the first year GTO did not get the hood scoops and split exhaust. The director of Pontiac motor sports told me that in 2004. He said if they had the money they would have not put it off a year. Many people really do not understand how bad things were and for how long.

[hyperv6]

Good one hyper, but I do not feel a wave of XTC when I look at the XTS.

You had better keep your day job as I don't see that gig at the comedy club working out for you.

[smk4565]

Well you look to have no clue again.

Everything up to the Chapter 11 has been a compromise of costs. They never could do fully what they wanted or intended. Even the present CTS is better but compromised.

How do we know that things are any better now. Opel is losing nearly $1 billion a year, GM turns out less net profit now than they did in the 1990s when they couldn't afford to do things right. I still don't think GM has the money to fund Cadillac.

[balthazar]

GM posted a 2011 profit of almost $8 billion in 2011.

[Drew Dowdell]

Because the Verano, Cruze, and Sonic, though started pre-bk, have everything needed to be class leaders, and show an even bigger improvement than the '08 CTS did.

[hyperv6]

GM posted a 2011 profit of almost $8 billion in 2011.

Ok th

Well you look to have no clue again.

Everything up to the Chapter 11 has been a compromise of costs. They never could do fully what they wanted or intended. Even the present CTS is better but compromised.

How do we know that things are any better now. Opel is losing nearly $1 billion a year, GM turns out less net profit now than they did in the 1990s when they couldn't afford to do things right. I still don't think GM has the money to fund Cadillac.

First off they have cut their cost to a great degree. They employee less people. They have cut the number of models and not really hurt market share. They are now doing more global platforms that share more parts than ever. I think you get the idea. Even with the loss at Opel they have made many more gains in how the money is spent. They have only started on the road to recovery it is not a 5 year deal.

[hyperv6]

Ok 2011 + 5-6 years is 2016 and 2017. That should help pay for the work on the LTS and a maybe a new Regal or what ever else is due then. 8 Billion is not what is used to be.

Being a millionaire ain't what it used to be just as a Billion dollars just does not go as far as it used to in a multi national company. GM needs to continue profits and continue to bring in cash not only to pay off what they need to but to also keep investing in new product. Add to the the time it takes to make a new platform and model for that platform.

The ATS is only the first step on a path to rebirth. The path is neither short nor cheap. What will fix Cadillac is only time and money.

As for that 8 billion most of it went to Chevy as they are the key to this deal. Chevy is going global and they needed the most work. Not only is Chevy going global but the money there is also revamping Holden. They can change the emblems and grills but they are still Chevys.

[smk4565]

GM posted a 2011 profit of almost $8 billion in 2011.

$7.6 billion in 2011, which is the same number Daimler-Benz posted. But GM is off to a slow start this year, $1 billion first quarter. GM had one big year, but Opel is bleeding money, and I still wonder if they will really invest in Cadillac or if they will keep diverting it to trucks or dividends to try to keep the stock price up. The government still owns a lot of that stock so who knows where the real priorities lie this close to coming out of bankruptcy.

Interesting though is Daimler spent $4.7 billion on R&D for Mercedes-Benz Cars in 2011. I don't think GM spend $4 billion in one year on Cadillac. Cadillac v. Mercedes is a bit Pittsburgh Pirates v. New York Yankees, the deck is heavily stacked in one team's favor.

Edited July 2, 2012 by smk4565

[balthazar]

^ mercedees probably needs to spend that level of money; cargo vans & garbage trucks don't design & build themselves.

[hyperv6]

I think the Car and drive review puts the XTS into perspective.

Cue is great.

The XTS is not a performance car but the suspension and brakes offers control and confidence.

The interior is the best Cadillac has ever offered.

Styling is clean and elegant.

The XTS is not directed at the German and Japanese cars. But the XTS hads redefined the American luxury sedan.

In a nut shell this is not a performance car but it was still enough to impress Car and Driver. Now think of the improvments the Alpha and LTS will bring to a RWD and Performance cars and I think you will find that they will be cars that are in play.

The only real challange is to change the image to get buyer to give Cadillac a chance. You can build the best in class but if no one buys.... I am convinced Cadillac can build the cars but can they build trust and change people minds. The public is not as GM blind as we are here.

Edited July 2, 2012 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

^ mercedees probably needs to spend that level of money; cargo vans & garbage trucks don't design & build themselves.

They spent $4.7 billion on Mercedes Benz Car line (SUV included), the commercial trucks and Freightliner and Western Star, etc have a different budget.

[smk4565]

The only real challange is to change the image to get buyer to give Cadillac a chance. You can build the best in class but if no one buys.... I am convinced Cadillac can build the cars but can they build trust and change people minds. The public is not as GM blind as we are here.

Bingo, and the XTS embraces the old image of Cadillac, it doesn't help to change it. That is my #1 problem with the car. The people that don't give Cadillac a chance now, aren't going to have their mind changed by the XTS.

[hyperv6]

The only real challange is to change the image to get buyer to give Cadillac a chance. You can build the best in class but if no one buys.... I am convinced Cadillac can build the cars but can they build trust and change people minds. The public is not as GM blind as we are here.

Bingo, and the XTS embraces the old image of Cadillac, it doesn't help to change it. That is my #1 problem with the car. The people that don't give Cadillac a chance now, aren't going to have their mind changed by the XTS.

WRONG!

It does not embrace it. What Cadillac has done is made a car that will appeal to the aging base while not delivering a wallowing beached whale.

The XTS delivers the ride and comfort the want but with tuning that drives with confidence vs numb on center. Like I have been saying this is the bridge to the future and this car will be seen as the missing link where it will move the base to the future.

Also you can't make money on empty space in the show room. Right now am I the only one who thinks it is wrong that Cadillac has only one car with no way to get the CTS or LTS here sooner?

I saw these points made about another brand. "clarity, commitment, authenticity and relevance." These are marketing points GM needs to sell and win at. I can see Cadillac making a play with each with all their new models. The XTS plays to the Autenticity for holding the Cadillac image for Luxury based on the interior and ride while Commited to still serve the base.

I see no issue with Cadillac offering this car as it is. It is not the flagship and it will serve those who love traditional American cars. I would like to think that Cadillac is like a Swiss Army knife and there will be a tool for several uses here.

Lets face it too that Cadillac can not turn away their True American Luxury Car base yet as they still have not owned any other segment yet.

[Drew Dowdell]

well... 2 cars other than XTS..... the ATS and CTS.

I'm looking forward to driving the XTS. With Magnaride, Cadillac can make the car do anything they want.

[smk4565]

well... 2 cars other than XTS..... the ATS and CTS.

I'm looking forward to driving the XTS. With Magnaride, Cadillac can make the car do anything they want.

But a CTS with a longer wheel base, RWD, a light weight chassis and Magnaride will ride and handle better than the XTS. I'd like to see them upstage the XTS interior in the new CTS as well. It is very possible that the 2014 CTS is lighter, quicker, better handling, better riding, more fuel efficient, roomier and with a more luxurious interior than the XTS. And that will be a win for CTS and for Cadillac because they will finally have the car they need to challenge the Germans.

[balthazar]

CTS already DOES challenge the germans.

[Drew Dowdell]

well... 2 cars other than XTS..... the ATS and CTS.

I'm looking forward to driving the XTS. With Magnaride, Cadillac can make the car do anything they want.

But a CTS with a longer wheel base, RWD, a light weight chassis and Magnaride will ride and handle better than the XTS. I'd like to see them upstage the XTS interior in the new CTS as well. It is very possible that the 2014 CTS is lighter, quicker, better handling, better riding, more fuel efficient, roomier and with a more luxurious interior than the XTS. And that will be a win for CTS and for Cadillac because they will finally have the car they need to challenge the Germans.

The only way the CTS-V lost against the Germans was when a 78 year old man was driving the Cadillac and a 21 year old was driving the BMW.

[smk4565]

The CTS doesn't have the interior to challenge the German mid-sizers. CTS lives in the entry level price class and doesn't sell outside the North America either. They still have ground to make up, although I believe if they go all out they can get in the conversation with the German trio. My fear is, that they dumb down the CTS interior, so they can continue to justify the XTS's existence.

[Drew Dowdell]

We already know the XTS is a short timer...I doubt they will be making any decisions in deference to it.

[smk4565]

We already know the XTS is a short timer...I doubt they will be making any decisions in deference to it.

Let's hope, because if you take XTS platinum interior, with ATS handling and put that with a twin turbo v6 into a CTS you have a winner.

[ocnblu]

The XTS is a nice car if people let it be what it is and quit trying to make it into something it wasn't meant to be.

[Drew Dowdell]

The XTS is a nice car if people let it be what it is and quit trying to make it into something it wasn't meant to be.

This