Jump to content
  • Greetings Guest!

    CheersandGears.com was founded in 2001 and is one of the oldest continuously operating automotive forums out there.  Come see why we have users who visit nearly every day for the past 16+ years. Signup is fast and free, or you can opt for a premium subscription to view the site ad-free.

William Maley

Future Of The Commodore Still Uncertain

Recommended Posts

William Maley

Staff Writer - CheersandGears.com

September 4, 2012

There's a lot of questions dealing with Holden Commodore after 2017. The facelifted Commodore, the VF, will be debuting next year on the Zeta platform. But when 2017, Zeta will not be used at all.

“Zeta is not a global platform for GM,” said Holden boss, Mike Devereux, during a tour of the Elizabeth production facility.

Holden has confirmed that it will produce two new Australian-made cars based on two global platforms as part of a billion-dollar investment to guarantee building vehicles in Australia until 2022. The first vehicle will likely be the new Cruze which will be based on new platform which will combine Delta II and Theta platforms into one. The other vehicle, which could be the Commodore could go a number of ways.

“It could be that we stick with the configuration that we have here, in terms of rear-wheel drive sports sedan. It could be bigger, it could be smaller, it could be that we don’t go with rear-wheel drive and go with front-wheel drive. And the difficulty is that we have to make decisions very quickly here that we have to live with until 2022,” Devereux said.

If the next generation Commodore was to go RWD, most likely it would use a GM's Alpha platform. If it goes to FWD/AWD, Epsilon II could be it.

“I’d talk about it in terms of a larger car. Whether it’s a Commodore, if it feels like a Commodore, if it’s called a Commodore... the whole thing is having to predict what to do post-VF commodore in that late 2016, early 2017 time frame and coming up with a winner.”

Source: Carsales.com.au

William Maley is a staff writer for Cheers & Gears. He can be reached at william.maley@cheersandgears.com or you can follow him on twitter at @realmudmonster.


View full article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This could be why we are not seeing a Ute and anything other than the SS short term.

The Alpha could be used for several more cars including the replacment of the Zeta. Also we have an Omega that so far is only listed for the LTS. We all know GM will use some form of it for something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Likely the Omega will have some interchangeable cheaper bits, that is likely the future of the commodore, IF there is one.

I doubt it's necessary, really.

GM needs to invest in the next gen of platforms to replace the bulk of their vehicle lineup so they can keep up with the crazy stupid cafe, which is seemingly the big driver.

AU will get assimilated, Epsilon3 or whatever it will be will be the large car future.

Edited by regfootball

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AU will get assimilated, Epsilon3 or whatever it will be will be the large car future.

Holden will probably just get an Impala rebadge..they are getting the Malibu, after all...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before the tin foil hats come out, this is one of those "no sh*t Sherlock" articles. By 2017 Zeta will be eleven years old and past its expiration date. Alpha and/or Omega will likely take the lion's share of Zeta vehicles.

officerBarbrady.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also as I stated a while back Holden will be Chevy and Chevy will be Holden. The greatest difference will be the Lion in the grill and the wheel on the right.

Like I said this may answer a lot of questions on why we are not seein a high volume SS and related models right now. I get the feeling Oshawa will be busy with RWD models on new platforms. This also falls into to line with the Alpha Camaro time line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because GM does not talk publically about future plans 5 years out anymore. Reporters are left to work with what they can find out.

To say the least I think few are suprised with the limited future life of the Zeta as it should not become the new W body. Lets face it GM can afford to do better now and no longer just have to make due with what they have. The ATS is a good example of that.

Edited by hyperv6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr Devereux is being a little cagey in his answer. Although final decisions haven't been made (and things can always change at the last moment at GM), there are some things that can be said.

1. The next Commodore will almost certainly be Alpha. The next Falcon will be much the same car as the next Taurus (FWD/AWD), and GM will have a large version of Alpha under the skin of the CTS coming up next year. Holden has to decide if they are going with that platform or the Espilon II under the new Impala/XTS. I don't have the ears in Holden as I used to, but they're going to almost certainly choose the large Alpha.

2. As for Zeta disappearing after 2017, not quite. To a large degree the Cadillac Flagship will be a spinoff of Zeta.It will likely be shown shortly after the new CTS is in showrooms. The short development time is a dead giveaway that it's based on an existing platform, and the fact that it's RWD and larger than CTS pretty much leaves only one choice. This chassis will be called Omega. Expect weight reductions using much the same ways used on the Alpha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice to see you posting here, Guy. Your presence is much appreciated.

RE: your first point - I wonder how much the Commodore's racing pedigree comes into play. Given Holden's involvement with and success in V8 Supercars, i doubt GM would alter a successful formula too much. Though some pretty decent handling cars have come off Epsilon II, I can't think of a single race car driver that would prefer an Epsy over a similarly sized RWD car. But with the Commodore's main competitor going FWD-based, I suppose anything is possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep thanks for the info.

I had wondered if they would take parts of the Zeta for the Omega or would have started a new plaform and replaced the Zeta with it as the flagship had to have something to share with. Time wise was hard to judge as so many of GM cars right now have had work started and stopped work so many times that we do not know about it is hard to judge the development times.

As for the racing it may be off the table as the Austrailan series was working on their new racing car and it will be much more like a NASCAR Cup Car. They are expecting that Ford could go to FWD and if GM ever does they would have to change the race cars to keep both MFG in the series. Also they want to attract many of the other brands in OZ into the series. If the don't adapt the series will end up with only one make and so their after die. So no matter what kind of car some of the MFGs may come up with they may still be able to race them since they will all use a standard tube chassis package under a semi fabed body.

Even todays series cars are getting farther and farther away from stock to keep everyone compeititve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. I'd rather V8 supercars die with dignity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry racing is a buisness and not an art form.

If you want pure racing go to a Amature SCCA

The Supercars were to the point they are not as stock as some would like to believe they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry racing is a buisness and not an art form.

If you want pure racing go to a Amature SCCA

The Supercars were to the point they are not as stock as some would like to believe they are.

True, but they still do look like real cars...real, RWD cars..not FWD appliances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry racing is a buisness and not an art form.

If you want pure racing go to a Amature SCCA

The Supercars were to the point they are not as stock as some would like to believe they are.

True, but they still do look like real cars...real, RWD cars..not FWD appliances.

Where are the cars that look like a FWD?

NASCAR does not even come close to that unless you count stickers a grill and tail lights.

The only thing I have seen of late that is remotely close to stock in any major pro racing are the Grand Am Continental series. I got to spend a race weekend with the Sunoco Camaro team 2 years ago and I was shocked just how stock these cars really were. But if the MFG put money into this series more so than they have it will go by the way side too.

Money and compitition kill nearly every racing series there is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry racing is a buisness and not an art form.

If you want pure racing go to a Amature SCCA

The Supercars were to the point they are not as stock as some would like to believe they are.

True, but they still do look like real cars...real, RWD cars..not FWD appliances.

Where are the cars that look like a FWD?

NASCAR does not even come close to that unless you count stickers a grill and tail lights.

The problem with NASCAR is that they have RWD race cars using the names of FWD street cars (Impala, Fusion, Camry). There are plenty of series that do have production-based FWD race cars (WTCC, BTCC, Grand Am, etc).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NASCAR is just a rolling billboard for selling product the RWD and FWD name is not a big deal as they know they are not fooling anyone and if they are the fan deserves it.

Most Series that are FWD are either not here or entry level racing. I have seen the FWD in Grand Am, Hell I remember the Champion Spark Plug challange cars from the IMSA series 30 years ago.

NASCAR next year will have a Stickered RWD SS so GM will live up to what some expect I guess. The Nationwise Series has all RWD models but they only look real from the front.

While I don't like the cars styling I understand it is entertainment and marketing. The races can be much more fun to watch than the follow the leader of other series. I just wish they would run more road race tracks as these cars put on a good show there as they have little down force and it shows who really can drive.

I wish they would do like ARCA and put in a dirt race too. I would like to see them make these guys show they have more than one skill. They used to do it before and I think if they want to fill the stands they should do it again.

I am just sad with the NHRA and how they are handling things. THey have killed the 1/4 mile and the cars are expensive jokes. If it were not for John Force and Schumacker they would be in a world of hurt. Our new Camaros are more pro mod vs pro stock now and I find it sad. I would like to see them go back to the bodies in white in pro stock.

Also Read the interview with Garlits in Hot Rod and how he would fix Top Fuel. Put it back into the drivers hands not the guy tuning the engine or clutch.

The thing the Supercar series has for it is the drivers are still in charge. They have few aids and on a road race track it is up to them more than the car. The driver can be the difference of 1-2 second.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am just sad with the NHRA and how they are handling things. THey have killed the 1/4 mile and the cars are expensive jokes. If it were not for John Force and Schumacker they would be in a world of hurt. Our new Camaros are more pro mod vs pro stock now and I find it sad. I would like to see them go back to the bodies in white in pro stock.

Yeah, what call 'Pro Stock' today is hilarious...I saw one of those vile rounded turds that was labeled a Pontiac G6, it was more of a funny car than anything 'stock'....Pro Stock should require 100% stock body panels, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr Devereux is being a little cagey in his answer. Although final decisions haven't been made (and things can always change at the last moment at GM), there are some things that can be said.

1. The next Commodore will almost certainly be Alpha. The next Falcon will be much the same car as the next Taurus (FWD/AWD), and GM will have a large version of Alpha under the skin of the CTS coming up next year. Holden has to decide if they are going with that platform or the Espilon II under the new Impala/XTS. I don't have the ears in Holden as I used to, but they're going to almost certainly choose the large Alpha.

2. As for Zeta disappearing after 2017, not quite. To a large degree the Cadillac Flagship will be a spinoff of Zeta.It will likely be shown shortly after the new CTS is in showrooms. The short development time is a dead giveaway that it's based on an existing platform, and the fact that it's RWD and larger than CTS pretty much leaves only one choice. This chassis will be called Omega. Expect weight reductions using much the same ways used on the Alpha.

Good to see you posting here!

So it would be Alpha for models up to CTS/Commodore size; and Omega (heavily reworked LWB Zeta, if I read your words correctly) for the larger models: Cadillac LTS, Buick Park Avenue (China), and Holden/Chevrolet Caprice?

Edited by ZL-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      When General Motors decided to study the Ford F-150 to help make the next-generation Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra, they sent engineers to the front door of where the F-150 is built. 
      According to Reuters, engineers went on a public factory tour of Ford's Dearborn truck plant to study how Ford was building them. Special attention was paid to workers attaching aluminum body panels to the trucks. After watching and timing the fitment of parts with stopwatches, GM engineers found some problems.
      “They had a real hard time getting those doors to fit,” said Tim Herrick, executive chief engineer for GM truck programs.
      Focusing on the doors, engineers bought F-150 doors as parts and took them apart. What they realized is that they could cut weight in their trucks with a combination of aluminum and thinner high strength steel for a lower cost. 
      GM could have gone all-aluminum with their trucks. Herrick said the debate at the company “was a really hotly contested item for us.” But at the end of the day, the decision to use mixed metals will allow for a larger profit on the trucks.
      “We think we have thousands of dollars advantage (over Ford) just in the aluminum costs. It’s big,” said Herrick.
      Source: Reuters

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      When General Motors decided to study the Ford F-150 to help make the next-generation Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra, they sent engineers to the front door of where the F-150 is built. 
      According to Reuters, engineers went on a public factory tour of Ford's Dearborn truck plant to study how Ford was building them. Special attention was paid to workers attaching aluminum body panels to the trucks. After watching and timing the fitment of parts with stopwatches, GM engineers found some problems.
      “They had a real hard time getting those doors to fit,” said Tim Herrick, executive chief engineer for GM truck programs.
      Focusing on the doors, engineers bought F-150 doors as parts and took them apart. What they realized is that they could cut weight in their trucks with a combination of aluminum and thinner high strength steel for a lower cost. 
      GM could have gone all-aluminum with their trucks. Herrick said the debate at the company “was a really hotly contested item for us.” But at the end of the day, the decision to use mixed metals will allow for a larger profit on the trucks.
      “We think we have thousands of dollars advantage (over Ford) just in the aluminum costs. It’s big,” said Herrick.
      Source: Reuters
    • By William Maley
      The Buick Envision finds itself in a tough spot. General Motors has been exporting the model to the U.S. since 2016. But with the on-going trade-war between the U.S. and China, it means the Envision could smacked with a 25% percent tariff. That is why GM is asking for exemption on the model.
      In a statement provided to Reuters, GM said that it filed the exemption request on July 30th to the U.S. Trade Representative. In the request, GM makes some sound arguments as to why the Envision should be excluded.
      Price is major factor. If the vehicle is hit with a 25 percent tariff, GM would be forced to pull it from the U.S. unless it wants to a take serious loss on each model.
      Why not build it here? The Envision has been a target of critics of Chinese-made goods, including leaders of UAW. GM explains that the sales volume of the Envision doesn't justify moving it to the U.S. Last year, Buick only sold 41,040 Envisions in the U.S. In China, Buick moved about 210,000 models. In addition, the current Envision is reaching the end of its current lifecycle before the company could make the preparations to build the model here.
      GM also makes the argument that the loss of the Envision would put them in a distinct disadvantage against foreign competitors such as Acura and Volvo.
      You can check out GM's request on regulations.gov website, which is tracking requests for exclusions from the Section 301 tariff.
      If the Envision does get hit with a 25 percent tariff, GM has already taken some steps to relieve some of the pain. Before the higher import tariffs went into affect, GM shipped in a six-month supply of Envisions that would be hit with the much smaller 2.5 percent tariff. This should keep dealers happy in terms of stock and not having to deal with a higher price. 
      Source: Reuters, Regulations.gov

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The Buick Envision finds itself in a tough spot. General Motors has been exporting the model to the U.S. since 2016. But with the on-going trade-war between the U.S. and China, it means the Envision could smacked with a 25% percent tariff. That is why GM is asking for exemption on the model.
      In a statement provided to Reuters, GM said that it filed the exemption request on July 30th to the U.S. Trade Representative. In the request, GM makes some sound arguments as to why the Envision should be excluded.
      Price is major factor. If the vehicle is hit with a 25 percent tariff, GM would be forced to pull it from the U.S. unless it wants to a take serious loss on each model.
      Why not build it here? The Envision has been a target of critics of Chinese-made goods, including leaders of UAW. GM explains that the sales volume of the Envision doesn't justify moving it to the U.S. Last year, Buick only sold 41,040 Envisions in the U.S. In China, Buick moved about 210,000 models. In addition, the current Envision is reaching the end of its current lifecycle before the company could make the preparations to build the model here.
      GM also makes the argument that the loss of the Envision would put them in a distinct disadvantage against foreign competitors such as Acura and Volvo.
      You can check out GM's request on regulations.gov website, which is tracking requests for exclusions from the Section 301 tariff.
      If the Envision does get hit with a 25 percent tariff, GM has already taken some steps to relieve some of the pain. Before the higher import tariffs went into affect, GM shipped in a six-month supply of Envisions that would be hit with the much smaller 2.5 percent tariff. This should keep dealers happy in terms of stock and not having to deal with a higher price. 
      Source: Reuters, Regulations.gov
  • My Clubs

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.