The Next Ion/Astra

[titan]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Opel section. Since the Ion will essentially be the next Astra, I thought I'd put it here.

[titan]

I think it looks great. If this is truly what the next Ion will be, Saturn will have a completely awesome lineup.

[Intrepidation]

Looks good, if a bit too rounded in the back for my tastes. I hope they have a sedan version...wish the original Ion replacement hadn't be canceled.

[Croc]

That's pretty hot.

Unfortunately, I have this sinking feeling the next ION will really be the GM do Brazil Vectra...

[CARBIZ]

GM needs to bring these vehicles to these shores FAST. Opels have been hot for a long time. They will sell very well in Canada where gasoline is almost $5 a gallon now.

Under the be-careful-what-you-wish-for department: should Saturn actually get these vehicles without being watered down, it will slaughter Chevrolet up here in the hinterland. I hope GM realizes that, too.

Whereas Chevrolet is a power house in the States, the Montana routinely outsold the Venture here and the Sierra outsold the Silverado last year - something that would be unheard of south of the border.

If the Opel product goes up against the GM-DAT product, the Chevy dealers will get killed in the crossfire. Pontiac already has the Aveo (Wave) and the Pursuit (Cobalt) on the small car front. With the cool Opel product going over to Saturn, I predict it will be a blood bath for Chevrolet in Canada, especially in the larger markets (Vancouver and Toronto.)

Just thought I would point that out.

[carman21]

Is this on Delta 2?

If it is when is Delta 2 coming out?

The Saturn Astra will hit the new Jetta hard.

Edited April 24, 2006 by carman21

[Northstar]

Damn that is awesome.

There will be one problem if this becomes a Saturn: Saturn will have a $15k car that looks better than there own $22k car.

That's pretty hot.

Unfortunately, I have this sinking feeling the next ION will really be the GM do Brazil Vectra...

It's possible that we will get the Brazilian Astra, but we will still get this.

[ZL-1]

Nice chops, probably referring to an update of the current Astra.

At least it doesn't look like an angry pig like some chops of how the next Golf will look like...

Edited April 24, 2006 by ZL-1

[stickmax]

I like the current version better which is not to say this revision looks bad. Just that too many other cars have the scalloped headlight and clear backlight look.

What's with the thing on the roof? T-top? Maxima mohawk style sunroof?

[Intrepidation]

I like the current version better which is not to say this revision looks bad. Just that too many other cars have the scalloped headlight and clear backlight look.

What's with the thing on the roof? T-top? Maxima mohawk style sunroof?

It makes it fly

[Ravenfreak13]

It makes it fly

lol

[Dsuupr]

That's hot. I hope GM is smart enough to give us the diesel options as well as the wagon.

[thegriffon]

Is this on Delta 2?

If it is when is Delta 2 coming out?

The Saturn Astra will hit the new Jetta hard.

There is no Delta 2. Except for the Ion, Cobalt and HHR nothing else even uses Delta. Opel is developing a new Global Compact Car architecture, probably adapting elements from the Astra and Global Midsize architectures. This should not be confused with the Global Small Car architecture being developed by GM Daewoo.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Seen these CGI's on AutoScoops-they look boring to me, little groundbreaking whatsoever. Isn't the Daewoo Global Small Car architecture for cars like Opel/Vauxhall Agila and Chevrolet Spark? Or is that the Aveo/Corsa architecture?

[ToniCipriani]

Nice... I see a lot of Antara in it. Just if the interior isn't the usual dreadful Opel one...

[91z4me]

There is no Delta 2. Except for the Ion, Cobalt and HHR nothing else even uses Delta. Opel is developing a new Global Compact Car architecture, probably adapting elements from the Astra and Global Midsize architectures. This should not be confused with the Global Small Car architecture being developed by GM Daewoo.

So the Daewoo small car is sub-compact or smaller than the Global compact that Opel is developing?

[carstar]

would it be cheaper to make a SWB of the Elpson 2 for upcomming small cars? or would it be too complicated?

[Cadillacfan]

Why add a new platform (which is essentially what shortening the Epsilon, which I don't think is possible, will do) when you have the delta platform doing its job well?

Astra uses a modified delta platform and was the basis for the current generation of GMNA compact vehicles(ION, cobalt, pursuit, HHR)

A newer version of the delta platform will arrive when the next Astra hits the market

The rumors of delta(and epsilon II) offering AWD have been thrown around in a few of the auto magazines in the past few months.

I would welcome that. It would allow GM to compete in more compact segments

Edited April 26, 2006 by Cadillacfan

[PurdueGuy]

Surely Europeans wouldn't mind the new design including a quad coupe? Please?

The mohawk is odd - does it serve a function?

How educated are these renderings? Are they just the dreams of a magazine, or based on... anything?

AWD would be sweet... make a Saturn Astra Red Line to compete with... the WRX? Running with the WRX ought to make the competition go "WHHAAAA?"

[Ravenfreak13]

This must be real if its on the main page! And I hope that there is a sedan!

[91z4me]

Why add a new platform (which is essentially what shortening the Epsilon, which I don't think is possible, will do) when you have the delta platform doing its job well?

9-3 and current Malibu's are SWB EP 1s.

Astra uses a modified delta platform and was the basis for the current generation of GMNA compact vehicles(ION, cobalt, pursuit, HHR)

I am pretty sure the Euro Astra is on the updated old Astra, T body I think, rather than Delta.

[rueben44]

That looks hot! Expecially the lights.

[Cadillacfan]

9-3 and current Malibu's are SWB EP 1s.

I am pretty sure the Euro Astra is on the updated old Astra, T body I think, rather than Delta.

I was responding to the poster who suggested shortening the Epsilon platform to fit compact requirements. The epsilon 1 SWB is considered midsize.

I stated that shortening it even more would be a waste of time and money when the Delta platform would perform the same exact function.

The Astra is updated from the older model but is technically considered Delta because of it being the basis for the North American Delta platform.

It may not be called Delta.. but it really is in a lot of ways.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Cadillacfan

[Mikko O]

This must be real if its on the main page! And I hope that there is a sedan!

There currently isn't a sedan, which makes quite a quandry for entry in the USA, where hatchbacks don't sell well. It will be interesting if GM spends the extra money to design a sedan version.

[Intrepidation]

There currently isn't a sedan, which makes quite a quandry for entry in the USA, where hatchbacks don't sell well. It will be interesting if GM spends the extra money to design a  sedan version.

True, but that trend may be changing, as the Caliber seems to be selling very well.

[HUMVEE]

That's awesome looking! I think it looks more like the Preview concept than the new Vue.

[torobud]

Here's an idea... can Saturn and bring Opel as is to the US... that way you can save the $5 that you lose changing the badges...

Saturn is not the plastic cheap cars that it used to be so you might as well ditch the name - allow all of the dealers to switch to Opel on a good deal and retain good practices such as the no haggle pricing (which is a joke) and the good customer service that Saturn does have going for it...

If you are going to sell a line of Opels in the in US why not just call them Opels and go with it?

[sciguy_0504]

Fast track it, GM.

[network engineer]

Here's an idea... can Saturn and bring Opel as is to the US... that way you can save the $5 that you lose changing the badges...

Saturn is not the plastic cheap cars that it used to be so you might as well ditch the name - allow all of the dealers to switch to Opel on a good deal and retain good practices such as the no haggle pricing (which is a joke) and the good customer service that Saturn does have going for it...

If you are going to sell a line of Opels in the in US why not just call them Opels and go with it?

Why is the no haggle pricing a joke? Saturns' customers seem to love it.

[PurdueGuy]

Here's an idea... can Saturn and bring Opel as is to the US... that way you can save the $5 that you lose changing the badges...

Saturn is not the plastic cheap cars that it used to be so you might as well ditch the name - allow all of the dealers to switch to Opel on a good deal and retain good practices such as the no haggle pricing (which is a joke) and the good customer service that Saturn does have going for it...

If you are going to sell a line of Opels in the in US why not just call them Opels and go with it?

...apparently you don't understand the value of a brand name. Do you have any idea how many people would have no clue what an "Opel" is? Saturn has a great reputation, and much of it is not product-based but service based, which makes it something great to work with. Also, at the level of production of each badge style, you wouldn't save anything by making all the badges the same. Costs the same to make an opel badge as it does a Saturn badge.

[Intrepidation]

...apparently you don't understand the value of a brand name.  Do you have any idea how many people would have no clue what an "Opel" is?    Saturn has a great reputation, and much of it is not product-based but service based, which makes it something great to work with.  Also, at the level of production of each badge style, you wouldn't save anything by making all the badges the same.  Costs the same to make an opel badge as it does a Saturn badge.

Don't forget Vauxhall.

Well said btw

[V6powerr]

I like the wagon it looks sporty and cargo friendly!

[91z4me]

I was responding to the poster who suggested shortening the Epsilon platform to fit compact requirements.  The epsilon 1 SWB is considered midsize. 

I stated that shortening it even more would be a waste of time and money when the Delta platform would perform the same exact function.

The Astra is updated from the older model but is technically considered Delta because of it being the basis for the North American Delta platform.

It may not be called Delta.. but it really is in a lot of ways.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/saab/93/index.html

You were saying what about Epsilon SWB being Midsize?

[ToniCipriani]

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/saab/93/index.html

You were saying what about Epsilon SWB being Midsize?

The 9-3 is a special case. Saab took the plaform and modified it to a point where it's technically not Epsilon anymore.

I've been in an 9-3 and it's really not much larger than my old Cavalier.

[Cadillacfan]

Look at the Malibu sedan or the Opel Vectra. Both are Short Wheel Base Epsilons and are definitely midsize. The Long Wheel Base Epsilons are what the G6, Malibu Maxx, and Aura are riding on.

The 9-3 may be considered compact by edmunds but it's still larger then the Delta platform and heavier then the other compacts in the segment.

Exterior Dimensions

Saab 9-3:

Curb Weight Automatic (lbs) 3285

Curb Weight Manual (lbs) 3175

Honda Civic:

Curb Weight Automatic (lbs) 2804

Curb Weight Manual (lbs) Not Applicable

Mazda3

Curb Weight Automatic (lbs) 2807

Curb Weight Manual (lbs) 2762

Look at how heavy the platform is. Delta is the much wiser decision.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Cadillacfan

[91z4me]

Look at the Malibu sedan or the Opel Vectra.  Both are Short Wheel Base Epsilons and are definitely midsize.  The Long Wheel Base Epsilons are what the G6, Malibu Maxx, and Aura are riding on.

The 9-3 may be considered compact by edmunds but it's still larger then the Delta platform and heavier then the other compacts in the segment.

SAAB 9-3 SPORT SEDAN HONDA CIVIC SEDAN MAZDA MAZDA3

Exterior Dimensions

Saab 9-3:

Curb Weight Automatic (lbs)  3285

Curb Weight Manual (lbs)    3175

Honda Civic: 

Curb Weight Automatic (lbs) 2804

Curb Weight Manual (lbs)      Not Applicable               

           

Mazda3

Curb Weight Automatic (lbs)    2807

Curb Weight Manual (lbs)        2762

Look at how heavy the platform is.  Delta is the much wiser decision.

Look up interior and exterior dimensions since that is a better way to rate the size class of a vehicle:

Cobalt Mazda 3 Civic SAAB 9-3

Length 180.3 in. 176.7 in. 178.7 in. 182.5 in.

Width 67.9 in. 69 in. 69.1 in. 69 in.

Height 57.1 in. 56.5 in. 57.7 in. 56.8 in.

Front Headrm 38.5 in. 38.1 in. 39.1 in. 38.9 in.

Rear Headrm 37.7 in. 36.7 in. 37.4 in. 37 in.

Front Sh Rm 53 in. 53.6 in. 54.9 in. 56.3 in.

Rear Sh Rm 51.4 in. 52.3 in. 54 in. 55.1 in.

Front Leg Rm 41.8 in. 42.2 in. 41.9 in. 42.3 in.

Rear Leg Rm 33.7 in. 34.6 in. 36.3 in. 35.1 in.

Max Lug Cap 13.9 cu.ft. 12 cu.ft. 11.4 cu.ft. 15 cu.ft.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Looks excellent, but I'm willing to bet that GM DUMBS it down too much when it comes here...

The Aura looks good, but it sure ain't the Aura that I would've bought from a few years ago.

[PurdueGuy]

Looks excellent, but I'm willing to bet that GM DUMBS it down too much when it comes here...

The Aura looks good, but it sure ain't the Aura that I would've bought from a few years ago.

How can GM "dumb down" a design that they didn't make? I don't think these are GM renderings...

[Ravenfreak13]

How can GM "dumb down" a design that they didn't make?  I don't think these are GM renderings... 

yeah...i agree...They can't do too much to it to cheapen it up...plastic door handles...and plastic rims is all i can think of..

[Cadillacfan]

Look up interior and exterior dimensions since that is a better way to rate the size class of a vehicle:

                    Cobalt        Mazda 3        Civic           SAAB 9-3

Length    180.3 in.  176.7 in.  178.7 in.  182.5 in.

Width            67.9 in. 69 in.          69.1 in.   69 in.

Height            57.1 in. 56.5 in. 57.7 in.  56.8 in.

Front Headrm 38.5 in.      38.1 in.     39.1 in.         38.9 in.

Rear Headrm  37.7 in.      36.7 in.     37.4 in.         37 in.

Front Sh Rm 53 in.        53.6 in.    54.9 in. 56.3 in.

Rear Sh Rm    51.4 in.    52.3 in.         54 in.       55.1 in.

Front Leg Rm  41.8 in.  42.2 in. 41.9 in.  42.3 in.

Rear Leg Rm  33.7 in.  34.6 in. 36.3 in.  35.1 in.

Max Lug Cap  13.9 cu.ft.  12 cu.ft.  11.4 cu.ft. 15 cu.ft.

Interior space isn't really what I'm worried about. The size of the car itself (weight) is the direct result of the heavier platform. The Delta platform is fully capable to serve as the next Astra or another compact car and it's been proven to work well for other GM brands. Why fiddle around reducing weight of the epsilon platform(which is growing in size anyway with Epsilon II) when you can spend the development money on more important things.

[91z4me]

Interior space isn't really what I'm worried about.  The size of the car itself (weight) is the direct result of the heavier platform. The Delta platform is fully capable to serve as the next Astra or another compact car and it's been proven to work well for other GM brands.  Why fiddle around reducing weight of the epsilon platform(which is growing in size anyway with Epsilon II) when you can spend the development money on more important things.

The point is that the 9-3 right now IS a viable compact sedan. Now admit you were wrong and lets move on.

[04monteintimidator]

3 words about the car

I. HATE. hatchbacks.

end of story

[ToniCipriani]

3 words about the car

I. HATE. hatchbacks.

end of story

The primary market of the Opel and Vauxhall Astra isn't the US. It's just sold as the Saturn.

[Focusst]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Opel section.  Since the Ion will essentially be the next Astra, I thought I'd put it here.

First it was the predicted 2009 Ford Focus and now this from Opel. Are these awsome, knockout styling renditions just the work of some Photoshop hotshot or are they indications of what Ford and GM are planning to bring to market in the next couple of years? If Ford and GM had brought these to market already they would not have the freefall in market share that they are experiencing.

[Dsuupr]

So the big question, now that we know Saturn is using the Astra, are these the 2007 Ion replacements or ???

[Robert Hall]

There currently isn't a sedan, which makes quite a quandry for entry in the USA, where hatchbacks don't sell well. It will be interesting if GM spends the extra money to design a  sedan version.

GM already has a compact sedan in the Cobalt..do they really need another? Given the Ion was a dud, going all-hatchback would be a good differentiator for Saturn..

[Cadillacfan]

You have to remember that the Astra is a premium compact sedan.. well, compared to the Cobalt anyway. They could produce a sedan for the American market if they wanted to and probably will on the NG model to meet our tastes.

I prefer the hatchbacks because they offer more space and storage and they tend to be more attractive.

Oh.. and 91z4me, I'm not wrong.. but I have moved on.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Cadillacfan