Jump to content
William Maley

GM News: GM Can't Make A Business Case for A Small Performance Car

Recommended Posts

Maybe GM should "re-badge" all of their performance oriented cars into one brand to see if people really care about buying unique pocket rockets and one-offs from the rest of the production.  I know!  They can call it "Pontiac" and sell this version of the Astra as the "Le Mans".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one wants a performance Sonic or Cruze.  Old people that don't want a Corolla buy the Cruze and the Sonic is just cheap transportation.  Once you add $5k to a Cruze or Sonic to make it a performance model, you are basically at base Camaro money, so there is your $25k sports car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I was about to say was all but covered...

 

I am neutral to a Cruze SS...because its hard for certain parts of America to choose a FWD pocket rocket over a RWD pony car. And now that a Camaro would be getting a turbo 4 cylinder of its own...it really is hard for GM to make a business case for it...especially when even the established brands of these "tuner" cars are not full steam ahead with them. Save for VW....sure Ford too.

 

But here in Quebec, I think a Cruze SS, badge engineered to a tee from the Astra OPC in Europe would sell like hot cakes.  The Verano sells in Quebec quite well...the Cruze also...Honda Civics are everywhere and the old Integras and RSXs as well...the VW GTI is a very good seller so is the Audi A3....just to gauge interest in a Cruze SS...and based on that...in my opinion...I think Quebec would be a GREAT market for a Cruze SS....especially since gas prices are very European like...unlike a place like Texas for instance...and that is why in Texas...huge pick-up trucks are king...and not in Quebec...where we are the small car capital of North America...because of said high gas prices...hell, even in Mexico, they drive bigger vehicles than Quebeckers drive...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A boost of 42lb-ft would be nice but I don't think I could convince the other half that spending the money for 91 octane would be worth it.   Darn.

 

Oh well, Regal GS AWD could be the solution. ;-)

 

I'm pretty sure GM's turbo engines all have good high-octane tables that give enough benefit to power and fuel economy that the cost of 91 octane is just about entirely offset. I'm weary of putting regular in any turbocharged engine, they're essentially being dumbed down just to be able to accept the cheap stuff.

 

Trifecta offers 1.4T tunes in a number of flavors. You can tell them what you want and they'll meet your needs.

 

I would honestly test your car on premium gas for a few tanks and just monitor the differences in fuel economy and feel, you might be surprised.

 

 

I have a road trip coming in a few weeks. I know it will do 33mpg on the highway and we get 26mpg city.  I'll have to test it with premium since work is paying anyway. 

 

Chevy has a solid performance set of cars in its line-up. Chevy, like Nissan, for instance, offers a Camaro (370Z) and a Corvette (GT-R) Each oof Chevy's models do come in "Steps" from V6 to V8 to S/C V8. VW does not do this. Ford technically does not do this, and even with the upcoming GT, will still not be doing this as that car will costs about $400,000 and be extremely limited. Then there is the price. Why the EFF, would someone pay $22K for a God Damn Fiesta ST when they could get a Mustang for only $1K more???

 

Are you saying the pocket rockets are cross shopped with GTRs and Z06s, given Chevy and Nissan's plethora of performance products and therefore should not be needed?

 

As far as why the EFF someone would pay $22K for a GD Fiesta if Mustang is $1K more:

  1. Choices - Didn't you say Cadillac is hurting in sales because of what? Choices. GM flourished in the 50s and 60s due to choices and today it doesn't.
  2. Utility - Good luck with putting your ovesized utility items in a Mustang when you make trips to Lowes
  3. One Car Does It All - Not everyone has luxury or resources to own different types of vehicles for different moods owing to financial, locational, or desirability constraints. But yet want balance of performance, utility, fuel economy and fun to drive. These cars fit the bills.
  4. Insurance Cost - Insurance is not going to be same for those two cars. And which one will a cop catch while speeding?
  5. Value - You get a lot more value for a $22k fully loaded fiesta than a $23k bottom dweller mustang.

 

So, performance is NOT the only metric here. The effing one trick pony loses to a GD pocket rocket holistically .

 

 

and RWD... in many parts of the country, RWD is a no-go. 

No one wants a performance Sonic or Cruze.  Old people that don't want a Corolla buy the Cruze and the Sonic is just cheap transportation.  Once you add $5k to a Cruze or Sonic to make it a performance model, you are basically at base Camaro money, so there is your $25k sports car.

 

Lots of people buy GTI and GLIs... why shouldn't Chevy go for that crowd?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Drew mentioned something that I always think about...but in reverse...

 

I always think about RWD cars as enthusiast cars...but not FWD cars...when in fact...FWD cars are just as capable in being enthusiast cars as RWD cars are...therefore...as Drew pointed out...in amny parts of the good ol' USA...RWD  is a no-go....in Quebec RWD is definitely a no-go...therefore a Cruze SS fits that target market quite well. Integra GS-Rs and  Type Rs were just the bomb in my neck of the woods back in the day...VW GTIs CONTINUE to carry the pocket rocket flame in Quebec...so I re-inforce my stance as a Cruze SS would be very welcomed in my neighborhood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chevy has a solid performance set of cars in its line-up. Chevy, like Nissan, for instance, offers a Camaro (370Z) and a Corvette (GT-R) Each oof Chevy's models do come in "Steps" from V6 to V8 to S/C V8. VW does not do this. Ford technically does not do this, and even with the upcoming GT, will still not be doing this as that car will costs about $400,000 and be extremely limited. Then there is the price. Why the EFF, would someone pay $22K for a God Damn Fiesta ST when they could get a Mustang for only $1K more???

 

Are you saying the pocket rockets are cross shopped with GTRs and Z06s, given Chevy and Nissan's plethora of performance products and therefore should not be needed?

 

As far as why the EFF someone would pay $22K for a GD Fiesta if Mustang is $1K more:

  • Choices - Didn't you say Cadillac is hurting in sales because of what? Choices. GM flourished in the 50s and 60s due to choices and today it doesn't.
  • Utility - Good luck with putting your ovesized utility items in a Mustang when you make trips to Lowes
  • One Car Does It All - Not everyone has luxury or resources to own different types of vehicles for different moods owing to financial, locational, or desirability constraints. But yet want balance of performance, utility, fuel economy and fun to drive. These cars fit the bills.
  • Insurance Cost - Insurance is not going to be same for those two cars. And which one will a cop catch while speeding?
  • Value - You get a lot more value for a $22k fully loaded fiesta than a $23k bottom dweller mustang.
 

So, performance is NOT the only metric here. The effing one trick pony loses to a GD pocket rocket holistically .

Well U only quoted part of my post. If U take the time to read what I wrote entirely then U will see that I was not saying that I didn't want them to build pocket rockets.. My post points out that I see WHY they have come to the decision not to in the near future. The part about the Fiesta vs the Mustang stands tho.. Has the car I picked been a Focus the your point would have been valid. There is very limited utility in a Fiesta. The Focus and Cruz? Yeah. I blatantly said the old Cobalt formula should be put in to place for the Cruze. Even the Sonic.. As it is slightly larger than the Fiesta... A car I see as more of girl car that anything else

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Chevy has a solid performance set of cars in its line-up. Chevy, like Nissan, for instance, offers a Camaro (370Z) and a Corvette (GT-R) Each oof Chevy's models do come in "Steps" from V6 to V8 to S/C V8. VW does not do this. Ford technically does not do this, and even with the upcoming GT, will still not be doing this as that car will costs about $400,000 and be extremely limited. Then there is the price. Why the EFF, would someone pay $22K for a God Damn Fiesta ST when they could get a Mustang for only $1K more???

 

Are you saying the pocket rockets are cross shopped with GTRs and Z06s, given Chevy and Nissan's plethora of performance products and therefore should not be needed?

 

As far as why the EFF someone would pay $22K for a GD Fiesta if Mustang is $1K more:

  • Choices - Didn't you say Cadillac is hurting in sales because of what? Choices. GM flourished in the 50s and 60s due to choices and today it doesn't.
  • Utility - Good luck with putting your ovesized utility items in a Mustang when you make trips to Lowes
  • One Car Does It All - Not everyone has luxury or resources to own different types of vehicles for different moods owing to financial, locational, or desirability constraints. But yet want balance of performance, utility, fuel economy and fun to drive. These cars fit the bills.
  • Insurance Cost - Insurance is not going to be same for those two cars. And which one will a cop catch while speeding?
  • Value - You get a lot more value for a $22k fully loaded fiesta than a $23k bottom dweller mustang.
 

So, performance is NOT the only metric here. The effing one trick pony loses to a GD pocket rocket holistically .

Well U only quoted part of my post. If U take the time to read what I wrote entirely then U will see that I was not saying that I didn't want them to build pocket rockets.. My post points out that I see WHY they have come to the decision not to in the near future. The part about the Fiesta vs the Mustang stands tho.. Has the car I picked been a Focus the your point would have been valid. There is very limited utility in a Fiesta. The Focus and Cruz? Yeah. I blatantly said the old Cobalt formula should be put in to place for the Cruze. Even the Sonic.. As it is slightly larger than the Fiesta... A car I see as more of girl car that anything else

 

 

I was seeking clarifications regarding your point there. WHY GM thinks it doesn't need the pocket rockets cannot be logically proved from your statement of so called tiered performance approach that Chevy has but others lack. These cars are going to be bottom of the GM's so called performance steps approach anyways and will not be competing with cars you mentioned in GM's lineup. So GM's logic, if it's per your comment, is flawed.

 

Your initial argument was, why would someone buy Fiesta ST over base Mustang for $1K more. I gave you multitude of reasons as to why one would do so. It seems like you believe the statement for utility is incorrect. Let's look at the numbers: the hatchback offers cargo volume of 10 feet3 (26 feet3 with rear seats folded) compared to 13 feet3 in the Mustang's dickie. So okay I will give that to you are correct about limited utility of the Fiesta, given smaller trunk volume. Although that statement assumes no one is ever going to use hatch's versatility of folding back seats and/or having extra set of doors. Mustang has none such option. But it seems like you have no comments on the rest of the points for Fiesta's superiority, so either you approve what I say or you ignore to point your correctness.

 

As far as Focus ST is concerned, I am glad you didn't include in your comment, otherwise the statement would have made sense like smk's statements - Blatant superlatives with no numbers or solid premises to backup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Chevy has a solid performance set of cars in its line-up. Chevy, like Nissan, for instance, offers a Camaro (370Z) and a Corvette (GT-R) Each oof Chevy's models do come in "Steps" from V6 to V8 to S/C V8. VW does not do this. Ford technically does not do this, and even with the upcoming GT, will still not be doing this as that car will costs about $400,000 and be extremely limited. Then there is the price. Why the EFF, would someone pay $22K for a God Damn Fiesta ST when they could get a Mustang for only $1K more???

 

Are you saying the pocket rockets are cross shopped with GTRs and Z06s, given Chevy and Nissan's plethora of performance products and therefore should not be needed?

 

As far as why the EFF someone would pay $22K for a GD Fiesta if Mustang is $1K more:

  • Choices - Didn't you say Cadillac is hurting in sales because of what? Choices. GM flourished in the 50s and 60s due to choices and today it doesn't.
  • Utility - Good luck with putting your ovesized utility items in a Mustang when you make trips to Lowes
  • One Car Does It All - Not everyone has luxury or resources to own different types of vehicles for different moods owing to financial, locational, or desirability constraints. But yet want balance of performance, utility, fuel economy and fun to drive. These cars fit the bills.
  • Insurance Cost - Insurance is not going to be same for those two cars. And which one will a cop catch while speeding?
  • Value - You get a lot more value for a $22k fully loaded fiesta than a $23k bottom dweller mustang.
 

So, performance is NOT the only metric here. The effing one trick pony loses to a GD pocket rocket holistically .

Well U only quoted part of my post. If U take the time to read what I wrote entirely then U will see that I was not saying that I didn't want them to build pocket rockets.. My post points out that I see WHY they have come to the decision not to in the near future. The part about the Fiesta vs the Mustang stands tho.. Has the car I picked been a Focus the your point would have been valid. There is very limited utility in a Fiesta. The Focus and Cruz? Yeah. I blatantly said the old Cobalt formula should be put in to place for the Cruze. Even the Sonic.. As it is slightly larger than the Fiesta... A car I see as more of girl car that anything else

 

 

I was seeking clarifications regarding your point there. WHY GM thinks it doesn't need the pocket rockets cannot be logically proved from your statement of so called tiered performance approach that Chevy has but others lack. These cars are going to be bottom of the GM's so called performance steps approach anyways and will not be competing with cars you mentioned in GM's lineup. So GM's logic, if it's per your comment, is flawed.

 

Your initial argument was, why would someone buy Fiesta ST over base Mustang for $1K more. I gave you multitude of reasons as to why one would do so. It seems like you believe the statement for utility is incorrect. Let's look at the numbers: the hatchback offers cargo volume of 10 feet3 (26 feet3 with rear seats folded) compared to 13 feet3 in the Mustang's dickie. So okay I will give that to you are correct about limited utility of the Fiesta, given smaller trunk volume. Although that statement assumes no one is ever going to use hatch's versatility of folding back seats and/or having extra set of doors. Mustang has none such option. But it seems like you have no comments on the rest of the points for Fiesta's superiority, so either you approve what I say or you ignore to point your correctness.

 

As far as Focus ST is concerned, I am glad you didn't include in your comment, otherwise the statement would have made sense like smk's statements - Blatant superlatives with no numbers or solid premises to backup.

 

 

 

No.. my original "argument" was to the point of PERFORMANCE in these cars to dollars. Why would anyone wanting to purchase a performance car.. buy a Fiesta ST when the Mustang is only $1K more? Make your argument with the Focus ST and I would give U some credit.. but the Fiesta ST is not a real stepping stone IMO. The Focus ST actually offers relevant performance. I 'll stick with 0-60 times despite 0-60 being a metric I hate using when talking about performance. The Focus ST,.. 0-60 in 6.1 which is pretty close to Mustang times. The Fiesta ST??? 6.7seconds. The Chevy Volt is now a competitor. Road and Track

 

and WTF am I arguing about Fiestas for??? I Feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills. LMFAO :banghead:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Excuses. There's already development of these vehicles from GM-Europe and most of the new platforms are federalized.

 

Mr. Reuss, by spending money on things like these you are keeping and creating customers who go to other brands because of lack of choices, even if it means less ROIC than other bread and butter vehicles. For me, e.g., I am looking at a GTI, ST, Mazda3 S hatch as a daily driver, why? Because there's nothing in GM stable that provides utility, performance, fuel economy and fun-to-drive factor in a smaller, cheaper to insure package.

 

When it comes to the main stream cars, GM is following Toyota model for being boring and appealing masses rather than covering all bases. It had a goodwill in Cobalt SS, HHR SS Turbo and blew it with Cruze by not offering one.

 

 

You, my good friend, are in a rare crowd right now. None of these cars are big sellers at the moment, and I know Ford is cutting back on ST production right now. And while it's good to have a halo car right now, I'm just not sure if the time is right just yet. With GM working on a bunch of updated models right now, I would rather see that finished first.

 

And I am not so sure about the Cruze...I've seen quite a few modded ones, so I know there is some movement out there. Lots of folks are modding that 1.4 anyways..

 

Trust me, as a small car guy myself, I'd love to agree with ya! Just not GM is ready yet....

 

 

I never said that the sales will be sky high, hence my reference to reduced ROIC (Return of Invested Capital). And I never mention them to be halo cars. These cars are never intended to be sold at rate of 25,000 a month, but even at 2,500 to 3,000 a month that is additional 10% sales. GM always seems to look at 80-20, target the 80 and ignore the 20 and this my friend is no different. These cars are mainly for goodwill and keeping enthusiasts within the family while adding some profit and GM is horrible at retention.

 

When is the right time, if not now? Unlike Z-06, Z-28, or V which take substantial R&D, most of these cars are high performance versions of lesser siblings that can be developed with them simultaneously, just ask Mercedes Benz how it does with AMG. Suspension tuning and handling is the only part that will require extra work. But it's not like starting ground up.

 

Given GM's size it will ALWAYS be working on updating models. GM was not ready with Cruze 6 years ago when it did not bring SS version (yes fully agree with bankruptcy) but nothing is preventing that now, I guess with this mentality it will never be ready.

 

 

 

Nah, I'll think they'll be ready...I onl y have to look at the new Camaro to see where the future lies for cars like the Cruze. I think for the first time in a long time, we'll like what we'll see......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one wants a performance Sonic or Cruze.  Old people that don't want a Corolla buy the Cruze and the Sonic is just cheap transportation.  Once you add $5k to a Cruze or Sonic to make it a performance model, you are basically at base Camaro money, so there is your $25k sports car.

 

 

Believe it or not, if we're talking fun daily driver and not all out model, I think it might not be much more....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was seeking clarifications regarding your point there. WHY GM thinks it doesn't need the pocket rockets cannot be logically proved from your statement of so called tiered performance approach that Chevy has but others lack. These cars are going to be bottom of the GM's so called performance steps approach anyways and will not be competing with cars you mentioned in GM's lineup. So GM's logic, if it's per your comment, is flawed.

 

Your initial argument was, why would someone buy Fiesta ST over base Mustang for $1K more. I gave you multitude of reasons as to why one would do so. It seems like you believe the statement for utility is incorrect. Let's look at the numbers: the hatchback offers cargo volume of 10 feet3 (26 feet3 with rear seats folded) compared to 13 feet3 in the Mustang's dickie. So okay I will give that to you are correct about limited utility of the Fiesta, given smaller trunk volume. Although that statement assumes no one is ever going to use hatch's versatility of folding back seats and/or having extra set of doors. Mustang has none such option. But it seems like you have no comments on the rest of the points for Fiesta's superiority, so either you approve what I say or you ignore to point your correctness.

 

As far as Focus ST is concerned, I am glad you didn't include in your comment, otherwise the statement would have made sense like smk's statements - Blatant superlatives with no numbers or solid premises to backup.

 

 

No.. my original "argument" was to the point of PERFORMANCE in these cars to dollars. Why would anyone wanting to purchase a performance car.. buy a Fiesta ST when the Mustang is only $1K more? Make your argument with the Focus ST and I would give U some credit.. but the Fiesta ST is not a real stepping stone IMO. The Focus ST actually offers relevant performance. I 'll stick with 0-60 times despite 0-60 being a metric I hate using when talking about performance. The Focus ST,.. 0-60 in 6.1 which is pretty close to Mustang times. The Fiesta ST??? 6.7seconds. The Chevy Volt is now a competitor. Road and Track

 

and WTF am I arguing about Fiestas for??? I Feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills. LMFAO :banghead:

 

 

 

Then there is the price. Why the EFF, would someone pay $22K for a God Damn Fiesta ST when they could get a Mustang for only $1K more???

 

I don't see anywhere mention about performance. But fine I will give your metrics to argue of 0-60 mph. Honda Accord V6 and Camry V6 are faster than your performance oriented V-6 Mustang, Why should I buy the Mustang now, if Accord and Camry satisfy the other aspects, which a Mustang doesn't? You need more of your crazy pills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Excuses. There's already development of these vehicles from GM-Europe and most of the new platforms are federalized.

 

Mr. Reuss, by spending money on things like these you are keeping and creating customers who go to other brands because of lack of choices, even if it means less ROIC than other bread and butter vehicles. For me, e.g., I am looking at a GTI, ST, Mazda3 S hatch as a daily driver, why? Because there's nothing in GM stable that provides utility, performance, fuel economy and fun-to-drive factor in a smaller, cheaper to insure package.

 

When it comes to the main stream cars, GM is following Toyota model for being boring and appealing masses rather than covering all bases. It had a goodwill in Cobalt SS, HHR SS Turbo and blew it with Cruze by not offering one.

 

 

You, my good friend, are in a rare crowd right now. None of these cars are big sellers at the moment, and I know Ford is cutting back on ST production right now. And while it's good to have a halo car right now, I'm just not sure if the time is right just yet. With GM working on a bunch of updated models right now, I would rather see that finished first.

 

And I am not so sure about the Cruze...I've seen quite a few modded ones, so I know there is some movement out there. Lots of folks are modding that 1.4 anyways..

 

Trust me, as a small car guy myself, I'd love to agree with ya! Just not GM is ready yet....

 

 

I never said that the sales will be sky high, hence my reference to reduced ROIC (Return of Invested Capital). And I never mention them to be halo cars. These cars are never intended to be sold at rate of 25,000 a month, but even at 2,500 to 3,000 a month that is additional 10% sales. GM always seems to look at 80-20, target the 80 and ignore the 20 and this my friend is no different. These cars are mainly for goodwill and keeping enthusiasts within the family while adding some profit and GM is horrible at retention.

 

When is the right time, if not now? Unlike Z-06, Z-28, or V which take substantial R&D, most of these cars are high performance versions of lesser siblings that can be developed with them simultaneously, just ask Mercedes Benz how it does with AMG. Suspension tuning and handling is the only part that will require extra work. But it's not like starting ground up.

 

Given GM's size it will ALWAYS be working on updating models. GM was not ready with Cruze 6 years ago when it did not bring SS version (yes fully agree with bankruptcy) but nothing is preventing that now, I guess with this mentality it will never be ready.

 

 

Nah, I'll think they'll be ready...I onl y have to look at the new Camaro to see where the future lies for cars like the Cruze. I think for the first time in a long time, we'll like what we'll see......

 

 

Perception is different than reality. Unless you have internal knowledge or concrete facts, you are just posting your opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was seeking clarifications regarding your point there. WHY GM thinks it doesn't need the pocket rockets cannot be logically proved from your statement of so called tiered performance approach that Chevy has but others lack. These cars are going to be bottom of the GM's so called performance steps approach anyways and will not be competing with cars you mentioned in GM's lineup. So GM's logic, if it's per your comment, is flawed.

Your initial argument was, why would someone buy Fiesta ST over base Mustang for $1K more. I gave you multitude of reasons as to why one would do so. It seems like you believe the statement for utility is incorrect. Let's look at the numbers: the hatchback offers cargo volume of 10 feet3 (26 feet3 with rear seats folded) compared to 13 feet3 in the Mustang's dickie. So okay I will give that to you are correct about limited utility of the Fiesta, given smaller trunk volume. Although that statement assumes no one is ever going to use hatch's versatility of folding back seats and/or having extra set of doors. Mustang has none such option. But it seems like you have no comments on the rest of the points for Fiesta's superiority, so either you approve what I say or you ignore to point your correctness.

As far as Focus ST is concerned, I am glad you didn't include in your comment, otherwise the statement would have made sense like smk's statements - Blatant superlatives with no numbers or solid premises to backup.

No.. my original "argument" was to the point of PERFORMANCE in these cars to dollars. Why would anyone wanting to purchase a performance car.. buy a Fiesta ST when the Mustang is only $1K more? Make your argument with the Focus ST and I would give U some credit.. but the Fiesta ST is not a real stepping stone IMO. The Focus ST actually offers relevant performance. I 'll stick with 0-60 times despite 0-60 being a metric I hate using when talking about performance. The Focus ST,.. 0-60 in 6.1 which is pretty close to Mustang times. The Fiesta ST??? 6.7seconds. The Chevy Volt is now a competitor. Road and Track

and WTF am I arguing about Fiestas for??? I Feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills. LMFAO :banghead:

Then there is the price. Why the EFF, would someone pay $22K for a God Damn Fiesta ST when they could get a Mustang for only $1K more???

I don't see anywhere mention about performance. But fine I will give your metrics to argue of 0-60 mph. Honda Accord V6 and Camry V6 are faster than your performance oriented V-6 Mustang, Why should I buy the Mustang now, if Accord and Camry satisfy the other aspects, which a Mustang doesn't? You need more of your crazy pills.

I this back and forth? Yeah.. 'script me up. 3 refills minimum.

The very thread is about performance pocket rockets. Why would I not realize that U was talking about it?

Why would one buy Mustang non-GT, I assume since U brought up Camcorder and faster? Well because of non boring styling, RWD handling, iconic name plate, it's not POS Japanese car... to name a few.

Edited by Cmicasa the Great

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a whole segment of car guys who have no interest in RWD pony cars.  It doesn't matter how good the performance is and for how cheap, you'll never catch them in a Mustang or Camaro.   If the Sonic 5-door had a better performing powertrain option, you might be able to pry them out of their Civics or Scions.... but GM will never ever do it with a Camaro.

 

It's not wrong or right, it is simply a preference segment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I this back and forth? Yeah.. 'script me up. 3 refills minimum.

The very thread is about performance pocket rockets. Why would I not realize that U was talking about it?

Why would one buy Mustang non-GT, I assume since U brought up Camcorder and faster? Well because of non boring styling, RWD handling, iconic name plate, it's not POS Japanese car... to name a few.

 

 

It's no back and forth buddy, I am a doctor to help you find the root cause of your ailment. I just need to diagnose you right before I can put my name on the prescription. :)

 

Well, I am using your standards of your choice to dispute validity of arguments you are posing about superiority of Mustang. As Drew has said here, just look at the target demographics for these cars and their desires. With that let us bring the thread back to the subject.

 

It is not ONLY PERFORMANCE but balance of performance, utility, fuel economy, fun to drive factors and value. Sure there is a 6/10 of a second sacrifice to 60 mph but it is not going to make someone loose sleep over. When Fiesta can go 10 to 20% farther even with a smaller tank of gas, while offering room for carrying weekend goods, fully loaded with features and carve the roads at the same time at may be 85% of the potential of a true RWD performance car costing more. It is able to park in the smallest of the parking lots in the city. That's why GTI is loved. It is a true all rounder for someone who doesn't need, want, afford or like all out performance.

 

And that is the segment that GM doesn't compete in. And it is performance segment because you do not have base engines making anemic horsepowers and reaching your performance metric of 60 mph in 12 seconds. Just metrics are different my friend. It is a compromise of all and well rounded at everything segment of performance. If you don't like it fine, you have all out Camaro to go to. But where is a GM fan looking for above going to go to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I this back and forth? Yeah.. 'script me up. 3 refills minimum.

The very thread is about performance pocket rockets. Why would I not realize that U was talking about it?

Why would one buy Mustang non-GT, I assume since U brought up Camcorder and faster? Well because of non boring styling, RWD handling, iconic name plate, it's not POS Japanese car... to name a few.

 

 

It's no back and forth buddy, I am a doctor to help you find the root cause of your ailment. I just need to diagnose you right before I can put my name on the prescription. :)

 

Well, I am using your standards of your choice to dispute validity of arguments you are posing about superiority of Mustang. As Drew has said here, just look at the target demographics for these cars and their desires. With that let us bring the thread back to the subject.

 

It is not ONLY PERFORMANCE but balance of performance, utility, fuel economy, fun to drive factors and value. Sure there is a 6/10 of a second sacrifice to 60 mph but it is not going to make someone loose sleep over. When Fiesta can go 10 to 20% farther even with a smaller tank of gas, while offering room for carrying weekend goods, fully loaded with features and carve the roads at the same time at may be 85% of the potential of a true RWD performance car costing more. It is able to park in the smallest of the parking lots in the city. That's why GTI is loved. It is a true all rounder for someone who doesn't need, want, afford or like all out performance.

 

And that is the segment that GM doesn't compete in. And it is performance segment because you do not have base engines making anemic horsepowers and reaching your performance metric of 60 mph in 12 seconds. Just metrics are different my friend. It is a compromise of all and well rounded at everything segment of performance. If you don't like it fine, you have all out Camaro to go to. But where is a GM fan looking for above going to go to?

 

 

 

 

The thing is, and I think U keep missing or ignoring, is that say for instance in your mentioning of the Golf.. GTi in particular.. I have no issue with GM offering a Verano GS, Verano GS Hatch, a Cruze SS, Cruze hatch SS.. even a Sonic SS or RS with actual HP upgrades... then we are in agreement. But the Fiesta ST is not really kicking out, IMO, a worthwhile performance upgrade, not to mention its cargo area, to your utility argument,  is nothing to write home about.. and no better than a small trunk. The Sonic at least has a nice sized cargo area, despite being similar in exterior length to the Fiesta. It even comes off as a larger car than the Fiesta,.... which would be like us asking Chevy to create a SPARK SS.

 

Again I get your argument about having a POCKET ROCKET.. I just don't agree that the Fiesta is the one to have.. or in Chevy's case.. a SPARK. 

 

Review:

 

I agree with a:

Sonic SS (or RS with actual more HP)

Cruze SS

Verano GS

Encore GS

Trax SS

Focus ST,RS

 

 

I don't agree with:

 

Spark SS

Fiesta ST.

 

No to mention that this segment is somewhat stale and not really producing any numbers to make a real case for. The Fiesta isn't exactly setting the world on fire in terms of sales since the intro of the ST. In fact the Sonic is beating it in sales by a few thousand YTD , and that's WITH the Spark and Trax  on the same lot stealing sales.

 

 

Lastly... I get that U wanna have "a car for everyone" at Chevy.. but looking at my statement above proves that the market apparently does have somewhere to go to at Chevy.. and that the slight uptick in HP really isn't making a huge business case for GM to decide in its favor. Furthermore, your argument could be made for various manufacturers not ALWAYS having a car for everyone seeking a particular niche.

 

Where at Toyota, Honda, or VW can I get a Corvette competitor??? How about at Hyundai for a Pick-up??? Why can't I get an Escalade competitor over at BMW??? Why do I have to settle for a 278HP max Accord Coupe at Honda if I wanted to get back at Chevy for not making the Camaro look like the Gen 2??? Why can't I get a cheap, POS, ugly, pedestrian, snout nosed, $h!ty driving compact Mercedes??? OH WAIT!!! 1r45kn.jpg

 

9192_cc0640_001_650.jpg

 

 

Its a conundrum being me.. as I see what U are saying, and would applaud the intro of several products that handle niche... but then I also see it from a business point of view as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My issue with GM is that they hold back the good stuff from North America.  

 

The 1.6T is a 200hp, 206 lb-ft direct injected engine that returns fantastic fuel economy.  The Europeans get it... so far, it's here only in the Buick Cascada.  Why can't we get this engine in the Sonic and Cruze and Encore and Trax?  Even the 1.5T with 160hp and 184lb-ft would be a welcome upgrade in these cars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My issue with GM is that they hold back the good stuff from North America.  

 

The 1.6T is a 200hp, 206 lb-ft direct injected engine that returns fantastic fuel economy.  The Europeans get it... so far, it's here only in the Buick Cascada.  Why can't we get this engine in the Sonic and Cruze and Encore and Trax?  Even the 1.5T with 160hp and 184lb-ft would be a welcome upgrade in these cars

 

 

 

Just thinking that a "LIKE" button would be kinda cool when the new software arrives. 

 

Anyway.. I agree. I think that U should be able to have a choice of at least 2 engines in each car. Add the cost in for the accommodation. 200hp, 206lb-ft would be a damn nice add on in a Cruze RS and a Sonic SS

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My issue with GM is that they hold back the good stuff from North America.  

 

The 1.6T is a 200hp, 206 lb-ft direct injected engine that returns fantastic fuel economy.  The Europeans get it... so far, it's here only in the Buick Cascada.  Why can't we get this engine in the Sonic and Cruze and Encore and Trax?  Even the 1.5T with 160hp and 184lb-ft would be a welcome upgrade in these cars

 

 

 

Just thinking that a "LIKE" button would be kinda cool when the new software arrives. 

 

Anyway.. I agree. I think that U should be able to have a choice of at least 2 engines in each car. Add the cost in for the accommodation. 200hp, 206lb-ft would be a damn nice add on in a Cruze RS and a Sonic SS

 

 

We have the Vote Up and Vote Down buttons in place of the Like button.  Look for the red and green arrows.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

My issue with GM is that they hold back the good stuff from North America.  

 

The 1.6T is a 200hp, 206 lb-ft direct injected engine that returns fantastic fuel economy.  The Europeans get it... so far, it's here only in the Buick Cascada.  Why can't we get this engine in the Sonic and Cruze and Encore and Trax?  Even the 1.5T with 160hp and 184lb-ft would be a welcome upgrade in these cars

 

 

 

Just thinking that a "LIKE" button would be kinda cool when the new software arrives. 

 

Anyway.. I agree. I think that U should be able to have a choice of at least 2 engines in each car. Add the cost in for the accommodation. 200hp, 206lb-ft would be a damn nice add on in a Cruze RS and a Sonic SS

 

 

We have the Vote Up and Vote Down buttons in place of the Like button.  Look for the red and green arrows.

 

 

 

I just keep overlooking stuff.. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Excuses. There's already development of these vehicles from GM-Europe and most of the new platforms are federalized.

 

Mr. Reuss, by spending money on things like these you are keeping and creating customers who go to other brands because of lack of choices, even if it means less ROIC than other bread and butter vehicles. For me, e.g., I am looking at a GTI, ST, Mazda3 S hatch as a daily driver, why? Because there's nothing in GM stable that provides utility, performance, fuel economy and fun-to-drive factor in a smaller, cheaper to insure package.

 

When it comes to the main stream cars, GM is following Toyota model for being boring and appealing masses rather than covering all bases. It had a goodwill in Cobalt SS, HHR SS Turbo and blew it with Cruze by not offering one.

 

 

You, my good friend, are in a rare crowd right now. None of these cars are big sellers at the moment, and I know Ford is cutting back on ST production right now. And while it's good to have a halo car right now, I'm just not sure if the time is right just yet. With GM working on a bunch of updated models right now, I would rather see that finished first.

 

And I am not so sure about the Cruze...I've seen quite a few modded ones, so I know there is some movement out there. Lots of folks are modding that 1.4 anyways..

 

Trust me, as a small car guy myself, I'd love to agree with ya! Just not GM is ready yet....

 

 

I never said that the sales will be sky high, hence my reference to reduced ROIC (Return of Invested Capital). And I never mention them to be halo cars. These cars are never intended to be sold at rate of 25,000 a month, but even at 2,500 to 3,000 a month that is additional 10% sales. GM always seems to look at 80-20, target the 80 and ignore the 20 and this my friend is no different. These cars are mainly for goodwill and keeping enthusiasts within the family while adding some profit and GM is horrible at retention.

 

When is the right time, if not now? Unlike Z-06, Z-28, or V which take substantial R&D, most of these cars are high performance versions of lesser siblings that can be developed with them simultaneously, just ask Mercedes Benz how it does with AMG. Suspension tuning and handling is the only part that will require extra work. But it's not like starting ground up.

 

Given GM's size it will ALWAYS be working on updating models. GM was not ready with Cruze 6 years ago when it did not bring SS version (yes fully agree with bankruptcy) but nothing is preventing that now, I guess with this mentality it will never be ready.

 

 

Nah, I'll think they'll be ready...I onl y have to look at the new Camaro to see where the future lies for cars like the Cruze. I think for the first time in a long time, we'll like what we'll see......

 

 

Perception is different than reality. Unless you have internal knowledge or concrete facts, you are just posting your opinion.

 

 

 

Maybe... just can't say.... :scratchchin:

 

Point is you don't think the new camaro's tech is not going to rub off on other models?

 

 

Can't dream of a twin turbo Cruze? :metal:  :bowdown:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My issue with GM is that they hold back the good stuff from North America.  

 

The 1.6T is a 200hp, 206 lb-ft direct injected engine that returns fantastic fuel economy.  The Europeans get it... so far, it's here only in the Buick Cascada.  Why can't we get this engine in the Sonic and Cruze and Encore and Trax?  Even the 1.5T with 160hp and 184lb-ft would be a welcome upgrade in these cars

Agreed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Nah, I'll think they'll be ready...I onl y have to look at the new Camaro to see where the future lies for cars like the Cruze. I think for the first time in a long time, we'll like what we'll see......

 

 

Perception is different than reality. Unless you have internal knowledge or concrete facts, you are just posting your opinion.

 

 

 

Maybe... just can't say.... :scratchchin:

 

Point is you don't think the new camaro's tech is not going to rub off on other models?

 

 

Can't dream of a twin turbo Cruze? :metal:  :bowdown:

 

 

What new tech? Most of the tech already exists and the small cars with performance exist. Bring one then we can talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The thing is, and I think U keep missing or ignoring, is that say for instance in your mentioning of the Golf.. GTi in particular.. I have no issue with GM offering a Verano GS, Verano GS Hatch, a Cruze SS, Cruze hatch SS.. even a Sonic SS or RS with actual HP upgrades... then we are in agreement. But the Fiesta ST is not really kicking out, IMO, a worthwhile performance upgrade, not to mention its cargo area, to your utility argument,  is nothing to write home about.. and no better than a small trunk. The Sonic at least has a nice sized cargo area, despite being similar in exterior length to the Fiesta. It even comes off as a larger car than the Fiesta,.... which would be like us asking Chevy to create a SPARK SS.

 

Again I get your argument about having a POCKET ROCKET.. I just don't agree that the Fiesta is the one to have.. or in Chevy's case.. a SPARK. 

 

Review:

 

I agree with a:

Sonic SS (or RS with actual more HP)

Cruze SS

Verano GS

Encore GS

Trax SS

Focus ST,RS

 

 

I don't agree with:

 

Spark SS

Fiesta ST.

 

No to mention that this segment is somewhat stale and not really producing any numbers to make a real case for. The Fiesta isn't exactly setting the world on fire in terms of sales since the intro of the ST. In fact the Sonic is beating it in sales by a few thousand YTD , and that's WITH the Spark and Trax  on the same lot stealing sales.

 

 

Lastly... I get that U wanna have "a car for everyone" at Chevy.. but looking at my statement above proves that the market apparently does have somewhere to go to at Chevy.. and that the slight uptick in HP really isn't making a huge business case for GM to decide in its favor. Furthermore, your argument could be made for various manufacturers not ALWAYS having a car for everyone seeking a particular niche.

 

Where at Toyota, Honda, or VW can I get a Corvette competitor??? How about at Hyundai for a Pick-up??? Why can't I get an Escalade competitor over at BMW??? Why do I have to settle for a 278HP max Accord Coupe at Honda if I wanted to get back at Chevy for not making the Camaro look like the Gen 2??? Why can't I get a cheap, POS, ugly, pedestrian, snout nosed, $h!ty driving compact Mercedes??? OH WAIT!!! 1r45kn.jpg

 

Its a conundrum being me.. as I see what U are saying, and would applaud the intro of several products that handle niche... but then I also see it from a business point of view as well. 

 

 

Dear Patient, before I put you on other of your crazy pills, let us get this straight that Fiesta ST was brought by you in this thread by comparing it with base Mustang not me. And I gave you five reasons as to why Fiesta ST would be chosen in comparison with Mustang, which you thought was a straight forward choice. At least I did not comprehend in your post about Fiesta ST being compared to a larger FWD smaller vehicles. But then please enlighten me, where in that post you say so. I even didn't make reference to the Fiesta ST in my last response here, but you regurgitated it.

 

You may think Fiesta is Spark competitor, but numbers and magazines say otherwise. Ford may have not packaged its interior better than its competitors, but it is packaged better in utility, COMPARED TO A MUSTANG to which you compared with in that post.

 

Okay I will even agree with you that Fiesta sized vehicles should never be performance oriented. But then Ford has balls to at least make it so, even if it means selling 10 of them a month (see I agree with you here also). Where are GM's balls for Sonic, which according to you should have performance version? Given lack of debt from bankruptcy, flexibility of manufacturing it promised from reemerging since bankruptcy, and existence of similar vehicles in other markets GM should be able to make profits on cars with low volumes, unlike Ford, which still has debt to pay. Isn't that the precise reason why Sonic was moved to US? At least that's what GM croaked as to it being the first small car to be manufactured in US due to GM's manufacturing flexibility.

 

As far as reading comprehension, "It is a true all rounder" or "It is a compromise of all and well rounded at everything segment of performance." is equivalent to "a car for everyone"? I don't think I am the one missing or ignoring.

 

Also,

 

 

Where at Toyota, Honda, or VW can I get a Corvette competitor??? How about at Hyundai for a Pick-up??? Why can't I get an Escalade competitor over at BMW??? Why do I have to settle for a 278HP max Accord Coupe at Honda if I wanted to get back at Chevy for not making the Camaro look like the Gen 2??? Why can't I get a cheap, POS, ugly, pedestrian, snout nosed, $h!ty driving compact Mercedes??? OH WAIT!!!

 

The argument above would not have been made, if comment below was read carefully in one of my other posts, because the single major hole in that theory is none of those manufacturers offer ANY equivalent car in other market, unlike GM, which it does. Your Chevroletdes Benz comment just further solidifies how much you read around here. May be you should own one of the FWD tri-star because based on your post, it seems like you really want one (clarification for your comprehension - assumption here is there's no sarcasm in that post).

 

 

There's already development of these vehicles from GM-Europe and most of the new platforms are federalized.

 

 

Unlike Z-06, Z-28, or V which take substantial R&D, most of these cars are high performance versions of lesser siblings that can be developed with them simultaneously, just ask Mercedes Benz how it does with AMG. Suspension tuning and handling is the only part that will require extra work. But it's not like starting ground up.

 

Given GM already has OPC, GTC versions and the necessary power train along with car platforms are geared to be world platforms, the cost of federalization is much lower than Toyota building a Corvette competitor, which it is BTW with BMW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Dear Patient, before I put you on other of your crazy pills, let us get this straight that Fiesta ST was brought by you in this thread by comparing it with base Mustang not me. And I gave you five reasons as to why Fiesta ST would be chosen in comparison with Mustang, which you thought was a straight forward choice. At least I did not comprehend in your post about Fiesta ST being compared to a larger FWD smaller vehicles. But then please enlighten me, where in that post you say so. I even didn't make reference to the Fiesta ST in my last response here, but you regurgitated it.

 

You may think Fiesta is Spark competitor, but numbers and magazines say otherwise. Ford may have not packaged its interior better than its competitors, but it is packaged better in utility, COMPARED TO A MUSTANG to which you compared with in that post.

 

Okay I will even agree with you that Fiesta sized vehicles should never be performance oriented. But then Ford has balls to at least make it so, even if it means selling 10 of them a month (see I agree with you here also). Where are GM's balls for Sonic, which according to you should have performance version? Given lack of debt from bankruptcy, flexibility of manufacturing it promised from reemerging since bankruptcy, and existence of similar vehicles in other markets GM should be able to make profits on cars with low volumes, unlike Ford, which still has debt to pay. Isn't that the precise reason why Sonic was moved to US? At least that's what GM croaked as to it being the first small car to be manufactured in US due to GM's manufacturing flexibility.

 

As far as reading comprehension, "It is a true all rounder" or "It is a compromise of all and well rounded at everything segment of performance." is equivalent to "a car for everyone"? I don't think I am the one missing or ignoring.

 

Also,

 

 

Where at Toyota, Honda, or VW can I get a Corvette competitor??? How about at Hyundai for a Pick-up??? Why can't I get an Escalade competitor over at BMW??? Why do I have to settle for a 278HP max Accord Coupe at Honda if I wanted to get back at Chevy for not making the Camaro look like the Gen 2??? Why can't I get a cheap, POS, ugly, pedestrian, snout nosed, $h!ty driving compact Mercedes??? OH WAIT!!!

 

The argument above would not have been made, if comment below was read carefully in one of my other posts, because the single major hole in that theory is none of those manufacturers offer ANY equivalent car in other market, unlike GM, which it does. Your Chevroletdes Benz comment just further solidifies how much you read around here. May be you should own one of the FWD tri-star because based on your post, it seems like you really want one (clarification for your comprehension - assumption here is there's no sarcasm in that post).

 

 

There's already development of these vehicles from GM-Europe and most of the new platforms are federalized.

 

 

Unlike Z-06, Z-28, or V which take substantial R&D, most of these cars are high performance versions of lesser siblings that can be developed with them simultaneously, just ask Mercedes Benz how it does with AMG. Suspension tuning and handling is the only part that will require extra work. But it's not like starting ground up.

 

Given GM already has OPC, GTC versions and the necessary power train along with car platforms are geared to be world platforms, the cost of federalization is much lower than Toyota building a Corvette competitor, which it is BTW with BMW.

 

 

 

 

No. The Fiesta ST was brought up by the original Article. Look at the quote from Autonews. The problem with your "utility" argument really stems from the fact that this article.. the one that we are actually discussing.. isn't talking about UTILITY. It is talking about cheap performance "pocket rockets.." which technically, at $21K, the Fiesta is not. It also isn't really a "rocket" with a 0-60 time at 7seconds. A time that my 5000lb Yukon would leave in the dust. Hell the SPARK EV is almost the same with 7.5. 

 

2) I obviously don't ever even want to be seen around, let alone owning a CLA

 

3) The Toyota/BMW isn't here yet, and we are looking at almost 3 years before it is supposed to debute

 

4) I agree on the "bring the already developed cars here" ideology. I have long said, and even in my first few posts in this thread reiterated that I believe the Cruze and Verano should get OPC/VXR treatments. I also said that the Sonic RS should get more than cosmetic changes. As it stands tho the Sonic does get a factory warrantied upgrade if the owner wished for $695, but I think the 10 more HP (up to 148 HP) and 10%increase in torque (+15 lb.-ft.) doesn't go far enough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Social Stream

  • Similar Content

    • By Drew Dowdell
      Ford and GM, the U.S.'s top two auto manufacturers are bracing themselves for the worst.  They have been running economic modeling to determin the steps they would take given a medium or severe recession in the US and across global markets.  General Motors has a stockpile of $18 billion in cash while Ford has $20 billion saved up.
      GM is relying on deferring non-essential capital expenditures and a shift in production to lower cost vehicles as part of its plan to save costs in the event of a a strong downturn.  Ford says is is evaluating its future moves. 
      Fears of a recession have plagued Wall St. most of 2019 while a trade war with China rages on.  Higher costs of materials due to tariffs is adding to the pain of weak product demand in the U.S., China, and Europe.  In Germany, Europe's biggest economy, growth shrank by 0.1 percent in Q2 2019 as trade conflicts and auto industry troubles weighed heavily on the economy.  Both exports and lagging demand at home have put a strain on German automakers already looking to slash costs. 
      Today, a strong signal that a recession is looming appeared as the 10-year treasury yield dropped below the 2-year treasury yield while do Dow Jones Industrial Average sank over 450 points.  
      Related:
      Honda Slowing Production, Cutting Shifts
      Nissan Profit Plunges 99%; 12,500 Job Cuts Eminent
      Ford Europe Laying Off Another 12,000
      Daimler Books First Quarterly Loss in Ten Years

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Ford and GM, the U.S.'s top two auto manufacturers are bracing themselves for the worst.  They have been running economic modeling to determin the steps they would take given a medium or severe recession in the US and across global markets.  General Motors has a stockpile of $18 billion in cash while Ford has $20 billion saved up.
      GM is relying on deferring non-essential capital expenditures and a shift in production to lower cost vehicles as part of its plan to save costs in the event of a a strong downturn.  Ford says is is evaluating its future moves. 
      Fears of a recession have plagued Wall St. most of 2019 while a trade war with China rages on.  Higher costs of materials due to tariffs is adding to the pain of weak product demand in the U.S., China, and Europe.  In Germany, Europe's biggest economy, growth shrank by 0.1 percent in Q2 2019 as trade conflicts and auto industry troubles weighed heavily on the economy.  Both exports and lagging demand at home have put a strain on German automakers already looking to slash costs. 
      Today, a strong signal that a recession is looming appeared as the 10-year treasury yield dropped below the 2-year treasury yield while do Dow Jones Industrial Average sank over 450 points.  
      Related:
      Honda Slowing Production, Cutting Shifts
      Nissan Profit Plunges 99%; 12,500 Job Cuts Eminent
      Ford Europe Laying Off Another 12,000
      Daimler Books First Quarterly Loss in Ten Years
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Back in early May, we reported that electric truck maker Workhorse was in talks with General Motors to buy the shuttered Lordstown Assembly plant that formerly built the Chevrolet Cruze.  The plan seemed founded more on hopes and dreams rather than actual financial reality.  Workhorse's only model, the W-15 is a truck with an 80 mile range and a built in range extender, has not exactly been climbing the sales charts.   In fact, the company booked only $6,000 in sales in the 2nd quarter of 2019, roughly $70 per day.  Following that report, the company's stock plunged 35%. Deliveries of the truck are currently on hold and will resume in the 4th quarter this year. There is currently a $70 Million backlog of orders to fill.
      Hopes of a solution for Lordstown coming from Workhorse are dim, but there is one thing that could save the deal: a $6.3 Billion contract from the US Postal Service to build the next generation of mail trucks, though Tom Colton, a spokesman for Workhorse said that the Lordstown deal isn't contingent on the contract from the USPS. 
      Under the proposed Lordstown deal, a new company would be formed called Lordstown Motors Corp. which would license the Workhorse technology to produce vehicles based on the W-15 model.  Workhorse itself would own a minority stake in the company. 
      The UAW is still in talks with General Motors to reopen the plant and assign new product to it.

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Back in early May, we reported that electric truck maker Workhorse was in talks with General Motors to buy the shuttered Lordstown Assembly plant that formerly built the Chevrolet Cruze.  The plan seemed founded more on hopes and dreams rather than actual financial reality.  Workhorse's only model, the W-15 is a truck with an 80 mile range and a built in range extender, has not exactly been climbing the sales charts.   In fact, the company booked only $6,000 in sales in the 2nd quarter of 2019, roughly $70 per day.  Following that report, the company's stock plunged 35%. Deliveries of the truck are currently on hold and will resume in the 4th quarter this year. There is currently a $70 Million backlog of orders to fill.
      Hopes of a solution for Lordstown coming from Workhorse are dim, but there is one thing that could save the deal: a $6.3 Billion contract from the US Postal Service to build the next generation of mail trucks, though Tom Colton, a spokesman for Workhorse said that the Lordstown deal isn't contingent on the contract from the USPS. 
      Under the proposed Lordstown deal, a new company would be formed called Lordstown Motors Corp. which would license the Workhorse technology to produce vehicles based on the W-15 model.  Workhorse itself would own a minority stake in the company. 
      The UAW is still in talks with General Motors to reopen the plant and assign new product to it.
    • By Drew Dowdell
      DETROIT — General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) delivered 746,659 vehicles in the United States in the second quarter of 2019.
      Crossover sales set a new second quarter record after sales grew year over year by 17 percent. Sales of the Chevrolet Silverado 1500 crew cab and GMC Sierra 1500 crew cab were both up 12 percent year over year. The Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse and GMC Canyon all delivered record second quarter sales. Sales of every Buick crossover were up year over year, with the Envision posting a 28 percent sales increase. The Enclave was up 21 percent and the Encore was up 5 percent. Buick deliveries were up 5 percent and GMC deliveries were up 10 percent. The all-new Cadillac XT4 continues to lead its segment and the all-new Cadillac XT6 has begun shipping to dealers. Cadillac crossover deliveries were up 19 percent in total year over year, helping the brand grow both total and retail sales. The Chevrolet Suburban, Tahoe and GMC Yukon XL were each up more than 20 percent compared to a year ago. Overall, GM deliveries during the second quarter were down 1.5 percent versus a year ago, in line with third-party estimates for industry sales. The company estimates that its retail market share was even with a year ago, with truck and crossover deliveries offsetting lower passenger car sales.  
       
        QUARTER 2 (CALENDAR YEAR-TO-DATE) JANUARY - JUNE   2019 2018 %Change Volume   2019 2018 %Change Volume   Cascada 1,312 1,374 -4.5   2,058 2,292 -10.2   Enclave 15,159 12,551 20.8   27,739 22,420 23.7   Encore 24,291 23,167 4.9   48,897 48,635 0.5   Envision 9,138 7,118 28.4   16,761 16,814 -0.3   LaCrosse 2,487 4,053 -38.6   5,389 11,119 -51.5   Regal 2,985 4,507 -33.8   6,393 8,215 -22.2   Buick Total 55,373 52,891 4.7   107,240 109,695 -2.2   ATS 371 3,785 -90.2   893 7,747 -88.5   CT6 1,862 2,427 -23.3   4,050 4,894 -17.2   CTS 2,443 2,640 -7.5   4,871 5,082 -4.2   Escalade 9,432 9,655 -2.3   16,251 17,766 -8.5   XT4 7,080 0 ***.*   14,106 0 ***.*   XT5 13,118 17,045 -23.0   26,396 31,890 -17.2   XT6 74 0 ***.*   74 0 ***.*   XTS 5,359 3,665 46.2   9,093 8,563 6.2   Cadillac Total 39,739 39,222 1.3   75,734 75,949 -0.3   Blazer 11,772 0 ***.*   14,795 0 ***.*   Bolt EV 3,965 3,483 13.8   8,281 7,858 5.4   Camaro 12,433 13,588 -8.5   24,516 25,380 -3.4   Colorado 31,669 41,016 -22.8   65,163 69,875 -6.7   Corvette 5,788 5,785 0.1   9,731 10,242 -5.0   Cruze 16,166 37,836 -57.3   39,477 77,691 -49.2   Equinox 85,657 73,967 15.8   174,157 156,365 11.4   Express 21,528 21,413 0.5   38,743 41,187 -5.9   Impala 12,536 13,595 -7.8   25,795 27,662 -6.7   LCF 1,305 756 72.6   1,864 1,286 44.9   Malibu 30,974 42,267 -26.7   65,171 76,417 -14.7   Silverado HD 31,496 37,452 -15.9   61,037 76,471 -20.2   Silverado LD 109,930 118,077 -6.9   194,426 214,603 -9.4   Silverado MD 1,038 0 ***.*   1,314 0 ***.*   Sonic 4,024 4,582 -12.2   8,484 10,565 -19.7   Spark 7,226 4,454 62.2   13,649 11,399 19.7   Suburban 18,266 15,136 20.7   29,295 29,861 -1.9   Tahoe 32,942 26,880 22.6   53,795 50,523 6.5   Traverse 38,152 35,892 6.3   72,375 74,090 -2.3   Trax 21,790 26,507 -17.8   46,370 46,989 -1.3   Volt 1,146 4,336 -73.6   3,666 7,814 -53.1   Chevrolet Total 499,847 528,100 -5.3   952,248 1,019,019 -6.6   Acadia 28,420 20,108 41.3   59,620 50,008 19.2   Canyon 11,909 9,635 23.6   18,863 16,848 12.0   Savana 9,503 7,167 32.6   16,069 11,964 34.3   Sierra HD 13,946 14,364 -2.9   23,188 27,022 -14.2   Sierra LD 42,911 45,042 -4.7   74,215 73,852 0.5   Terrain 24,988 22,327 11.9   50,352 55,291 -8.9   Yukon 20,023 19,520 2.6   34,970 34,522 1.3   GMC Total 151,700 138,163 9.8   277,277 269,507 2.9   GM Vehicle Total 746,659 758,376 -1.5   1,412,499 1,474,170 -4.2  
  • My Clubs

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×
×
  • Create New...