Random Thoughts Thread

[daves87rs]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Corvette needs a V6 if they want to sell global.  The V8 doesn't pass European emissions, and it might pass in China, but it would bet clobbered with displacement taxes.  So there is one argument for a V6.

 

What Corvette is really has no relevance to anything Cadillac does.  Whether Cadillac wants to build a sports car, a Lamborghini Urus style SUV, a big sedan, a luxury off roader or anything else.  Cadillac should do what is best for Cadillac, not what is best for Chevrolet or Corvette or GMC or anything else.

 

I think a big problem of GM in general is one brand compromises another.  Can't make a Buick too nice or it will step on the toes of a Cadillac, can't make a sports car faster than the Corvette, can't make anything more expensive than an Escalade, can't put too much power in a Camaro or it will steal Corvette sales.  None of that crap should matter, if Ford has a 750 hp Mustang, Dodge has an 800 hp Challenger, and Chevy has a 500 hp Camaro because it can't have more power than the Corvette, then Camaro gets screwed and loses to its competitors.  And I know there is a 600-whatever horsepower Camaro but I am just using that as an example.   Same with Escalade, it was once one of the most expensive SUVs on market, now there are 10 or so that are higher priced than it. 

Now if GM decides cars with base prices over $100k is just not a money maker for them that is fine, don't go there.  But you still have to make your other products best in segment, and not position them as to no step on the toes of over brands.  This brands should be competing with each other to get better.

I bet Ford Mustang Mach -E outsells the Mustang once production is ramped up in calendar year 2022 for example, despite Mach-E costing more.  Truth of the matter is, they could sell the Corvette for $25,000 and the Toyota RAV4 would outsell it 10 to 1.  People want SUVs, the sports car market is small and shrinking.

Not really the point. I’m sure it’s won’t be long before Tesla outsells the Camry either. EV is the future, whether we like it or not.

My goal here is to keep the ICE dream alive for those of us who still want to drive gas powered fun things. The CUV/SUV craze will not change-just not be gas powered.

Sports cars should be fun. And not everything should be a ZL1 or 80k. Also doesn’t help the at GM has zero marketing skills. I think affordable Camaros (even a 60k Vette) marketed properly  could sell- especially to the NASCAR crowd. Offering different packages, different price points could draw people in.

But then again, maybe it is too late.......

[trinacriabob]

4 hours ago, riviera74 said:

@smk4565 It was not that long ago that GM makes DID compete against each other.  Prior to the Chevy Vega, GM brands were competing against each other in almost every segment of the US auto market.  Then came the 71 Vega and the dreaded homologation that led to the dismantling of different characteristics for each brand.  That is the biggest reason that Oldsmobile and Pontiac (as well as Saab and Saturn) have died.

From a marketing course I took in undergrad, the chewing into each other's market share was termed cannabalization.  If you grab market share from outside GM, that would be a good thing.  If you grab from across brand lines, not so much.  However, I think it was common.  Many people's tastes took them to Chevrolet or Pontiac, and the price points that went with that.  My dad seemed to focus on Buick and Oldsmobile, with the perception that Buick was a notch better.  I found that debatable.  Our Olds cars were always better looking than our Buick cars.  With the exception of the early odd-firing V6 we had, the Buicks lasted a little longer.  So, these cannabalizers are a stable captive audience that will be deciding on a vehicle within GM's stable.  GM knows that there's a large batch of these loyal customers.  What it will always need to do is pull people in from the ranks of other brands.

After recently spending some time behind the wheel of a Toyota RAV 4, there is no doubt in my mind I'd be back at GM looking at an Acadia or similar, even with the base engine and just FWD.  The Toyota was a slight disappointment.

[balthazar]

It's very difficult to 'prove' cannibalization (other than imprecise polling).
If one bought an Impala instead of a LeSabre, where did GM 'lose'? Further; if one bought an Impala instead of a LTD... GM's bottom line remains the same.

The theory is nebulous. More choices theoretically should bring in a larger pool of buyers.

[riviera74]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

It's very difficult to 'prove' cannibalization (other than imprecise polling).
If one bought an Impala instead of a LeSabre, where did GM 'lose'? Further; if one bought an Impala instead of a LTD... GM's bottom line remains the same.

The theory is nebulous. More choices theoretically should bring in a larger pool of buyers.

The theory is sound.  In general, more choices ought to bring in more buyers.  But given where GM and Ford and Chrysler were in 1970 versus today seems to suggest otherwise.

[daves87rs]

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

It's very difficult to 'prove' cannibalization (other than imprecise polling).
If one bought an Impala instead of a LeSabre, where did GM 'lose'? Further; if one bought an Impala instead of a LTD... GM's bottom line remains the same.

The theory is nebulous. More choices theoretically should bring in a larger pool of buyers.

Sadly we are going the opposite way now. Less choices equal more profits for Wall Street.....

[David]

14 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

From a marketing course I took in undergrad, the chewing into each other's market share was termed cannibalizations.  If you grab market share from outside GM, that would be a good thing.  If you grab from across brand lines, not so much.  However, I think it was common.  Many people's tastes took them to Chevrolet or Pontiac, and the price points that went with that.  My dad seemed to focus on Buick and Oldsmobile, with the perception that Buick was a notch better.  I found that debatable.  Our Olds cars were always better looking than our Buick cars.  With the exception of the early odd-firing V6 we had, the Buicks lasted a little longer.  So, these cannabalizers are a stable captive audience that will be deciding on a vehicle within GM's stable.  GM knows that there's a large batch of these loyal customers.  What it will always need to do is pull people in from the ranks of other brands.

After recently spending some time behind the wheel of a Toyota RAV 4, there is no doubt in my mind I'd be back at GM looking at an Acadia or similar, even with the base engine and just FWD.  The Toyota was a slight disappointment.

Did ya try the Rav4 Hybrid, everyone I know says it is night and day different than the rest of the Rav4's and once you drive one, you wonder how you could ever drive a traditional ICE version let alone many of the competition products.

I am interested to know if you did test drive one what you thought compared to the commercial reviews.

2 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Sadly we are going the opposite way now. Less choices equal more profits for Wall Street.....

Or the less options is due to the bulk of society wants a certain image, certain jones jones competition of being seen in the same type of auto.

I use my 4x4 / AWD all the time off road and up on the mountain passes during winter and yet the bulk of the folks in my cul-d-sac never go out especially if it is a little icy here in the suburbs. As such, very much a jones jones thing has led to the death of the car over the bulk of everyone wanting a cuv/suv or truck.

[balthazar]

Among my family, friends & many customers, I only know 1 person who has a RAV4.

[daves87rs]

37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Among my family, friends & many customers, I only know 1 person who has a RAV4.

Pretty sure that is a good thing.... 🙂 

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Among my family, friends & many customers, I only know 1 person who has a RAV4.

How many of then own a CR-V or a Rogue?  I have one aunt who has a Rogue bought by her son.

[frogger]

My colleague had a RAV4 rental late last year, I'm guessing it was the base model, it was really meh inside, enough so that he preferred his Jeep Cherokee (and he doesn't really like his Cherokee).  Upper trim levels are nicer and the hybrid is quieter/more powerful but wife preferred the Outback as it drives closer to a traditional midsize car.

 

[balthazar]

53 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

How many of then own a CR-V or a Rogue?  I have one aunt who has a Rogue bought by her son.

Zero

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Did ya try the Rav4 Hybrid, everyone I know says it is night and day different than the rest of the Rav4's and once you drive one, you wonder how you could ever drive a traditional ICE version let alone many of the competition products.

I am interested to know if you did test drive one what you thought compared to the commercial reviews.

It was a conventional gas engine (ICE) and it was a 2.5 L 4.  It was a rental.  I was supposed to have an intermediate, like a Hyundai Elantra, but they did not have cars.  Just trucks/SUVs/CUVs.

[trinacriabob]

5 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Sadly we are going the opposite way now. Less choices equal more profits for Wall Street.....

So true.  It's all about the sharp pencil.  I am not asking that they offer 7 colors for your vehicle's interior like they did in '77 (when they had green, blue, and burgundy).  However, they make enough Malibus, for example, where they should offer the conventional three interior colors:  black, gray, and tan.  If you do the "build and price" on one of those, even up the ladder to LT, the only interior you can get for most exterior colors is black.  Similarly, on the base Dodge Charger, they only offer a black interior, probably to keep the price at $ 29 K.  For the price difference from a decently equipped Malibu LT, the Charger is quite a bit more car, so I'd work around the one interior color choice on that one.

[balthazar]

[daves87rs]

7 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

So true.  It's all about the sharp pencil.  I am not asking that they offer 7 colors for your vehicle's interior like they did in '77 (when they had green, blue, and burgundy).  However, they make enough Malibus, for example, where they should offer the conventional three interior colors:  black, gray, and tan.  If you do the "build and price" on one of those, even up the ladder to LT, the only interior you can get for most exterior colors is black.  Similarly, on the base Dodge Charger, they only offer a black interior, probably to keep the price at $ 29 K.  For the price difference from a decently equipped Malibu LT, the Charger is quite a bit more car, so I'd work around the one interior color choice on that one.

Choices are what made cars fun!! 🙂 

[trinacriabob]

Are you finding that you are o.k. with masks?

I now have 3 boxes of them (2 with 10 and 1 with 50) and am still working on the first box.  The supermarkets and drug stores are now pushing them.  And, I still have bandannas. 

Are you finding that you are o.k. with hand sanitizer?

I now have small bottles in each room which I accumulated as I checked out of grocery stores.

I have disinfectant wipes in the bathrooms and in the console of my car, not to mention my travel bag.

And, I have 2 mini bottles that are meant for a backpack or whatever, one of which was given to me free as a courtesy when picking up some office supplies.

How supply and demand have changed in one month!

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

Mercedes owner came into my buddy's shop a few years ago- said her brakes weren't working well :

[David]

WOW 😵 https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/ 

[frogger]

1 hour ago, trinacriabob said:

Are you finding that you are o.k. with masks?

I now have 3 boxes of them (2 with 10 and 1 with 50) and am still working on the first box.  The supermarkets and drug stores are now pushing them.  And, I still have bandannas. 

Are you finding that you are o.k. with hand sanitizer?

I now have small bottles in each room which I accumulated as I checked out of grocery stores.

I have disinfectant wipes in the bathrooms and in the console of my car, not to mention my travel bag.

And, I have 2 mini bottles that are meant for a backpack or whatever, one of which was given to me free as a courtesy when picking up some office supplies.

How supply and demand have changed in one month!

I'm not going to retail places often, my wife goes to the regular grocery store and Korean grocery store once a week each, and I go to the bakery and fruit/veggie market each week.  Other than that a couple times to garden centres and hardware stores over the last few months.  So we are not using our masks much, just making do with reusable multi-layer cloth ones.    They are not that comfy outdoors now with the heat, should probably get some disposables.  I carry a small hand sanitizer with me on my walks to the stores, not much of a shortage of those around here any longer either.  We put a soap pump outside next to the hose bib to wash our hands before going in the house.  We try to be careful with my inlaws isolating with us in our home during this period.

My wife works at a hospital and is given two disposable masks a day to use there.

 

 

 

[David]

2 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Are you finding that you are o.k. with masks?

I now have 3 boxes of them (2 with 10 and 1 with 50) and am still working on the first box.  The supermarkets and drug stores are now pushing them.  And, I still have bandannas. 

Are you finding that you are o.k. with hand sanitizer?

I now have small bottles in each room which I accumulated as I checked out of grocery stores.

I have disinfectant wipes in the bathrooms and in the console of my car, not to mention my travel bag.

And, I have 2 mini bottles that are meant for a backpack or whatever, one of which was given to me free as a courtesy when picking up some office supplies.

How supply and demand have changed in one month!

Overall, I tolerate the masks, I find it hard to breath through my N95 mask and the wife who is Korean and used to masks as are our kids have washable ones and so use them when in stores, but then put them into a paperbag upon getting back into the auto, then hand sanitizer before touching anything else in the auto.

I have tried the paper ones, tried the cloth ones and the big size of my face causes the exhaled air to go up and fog my glasses, so back to the N95 which has a rubber seal under my eyes so it does not affect my glasses, breath in through my nose, out through the mouth to go out the front exhaust port. Over all Tolerable as I said, Other than our Costco runs and Korean grocery store run, the once a month run to Home Depot, anything else is Amazon and we stay socially distant from all family and friend for now till a vaccine is available. Just not taking the chances as so many others in HOT states of infection are. Zoom calls with family and friends works for us.

[Robert Hall]

I haven't had to go into any retail stores since February.  Doing home delivery from local groceries directly and via Instacart, heavy use of Amazon Prime, and Home Depot home delivery.   Had to make a couple trips to my local Ace Hardware for curbside pickup of mulch, etc.  (mulch is unobtainium right now from them, though).   Made a few trips to the Post Office to drop off shipments for my sister and to the UPS Store. 

I'll probably venture out next week to the BMV to get a new driver's license, mine expires on my birthday (the 28th)--was only a 3 yr license when I moved here, unlike the 30 year license I had in Arizona..

[frogger]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

WOW 😵 https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-coronavirus-cases-world-map/ 

I was thinking developing densely populated countries with areas of mass poverty like India and Pakistan would fail to control the spread the most.

 

 

 

[trinacriabob]

3 minutes ago, frogger said:

I was thinking developing densely populated countries with areas of mass poverty like India and Pakistan would fail to control the spread the most.

South America seemed almost untouched for a while ... and now they are being hit hard.  The way South American countries differ, I would expect the northern, more humid, and poorer parts of the continent to deal with it more clumsily.  And countries like Uruguay and Chile to deal with it more like Europe, which they resemble in so many ways to begin with.

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

HEY HEY WE'RE THE MONKEES!!!

[David]

WOW, Some very cool news and I know some will really like, looking @ocnblu will love this confirmation. 

BRONCO to have 7sp manual transmission with a Crawl gear for the 4x4.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/2021-bronco-s-seven-speed-manual-will-boast-a-low-range-crawl-gear/ar-BB15lMbd?ocid=msedgntp

Ford Executive is now saying the Bronco will be superior in every way to the Wrangler.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/ford-exec-talks-smack-says-bronco-will-be-superior-to-wrangler/ar-BB15jACj?ocid=msedgntp

More Leaked photos's of the Bronco.

https://www.motor1.com/news/403527/2021-ford-bronco-leaked-again/?utm_source=msn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn-feed

https://www.motor1.com/news/403191/2021-ford-bronco-possible-leak/?utm_source=msn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn-feed

 

1969 Chevrolet Kingswood with 427

[David]

Love at first site!!! 

1965 Pontiac 2+2

One I will always think fondly of is the 1993 GMC Typhoon. 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds, AWD and faster than a Ferrari 348 of the same time periof.

[ocnblu]

[David]

Hey, just saw this, did not realize Mazda is coming back to the truck market. It is an Isuzu based truck and will have a turbo diesel along with gas that @ocnblu should like.

https://www.motor1.com/news/428154/2021-mazda-bt50-teaser/

[frogger]

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Hey, just saw this, did not realize Mazda is coming back to the truck market. It is an Isuzu based truck and will have a turbo diesel along with gas that @ocnblu should like.

https://www.motor1.com/news/428154/2021-mazda-bt50-teaser/

Seems that the BT-50 is sold in international markets (Australia from what I can tell), and this is just the next generation.  Doesn't seem to indicate it will be coming to the US.

 

[riviera74]

It was not that long ago that Mazda was selling the B-series which was based on a Ford Ranger.  No surprise that Mazda would do this again.

[David]

I cannot imagine any car person who would not love to own this.

1970 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser 442 

1973 Chevrolet Chevelle Laguna 454

[balthazar]

27,692 posts, and zero from Balthy.  🤔

You guys can use a vacation thread from me. 😄

[ocnblu]

Thank you SO MUCH 

[David]

UK Unions have told the news that manufacturing is on the brink of Collapse due to inaction from the government.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/tunedin/uk-manufacturing-industry-on-brink-of-historic-collapse/vi-BB15lU7K?ocid=msedgntp

Seems they think every auto company in UK will be gone if the gov does not respond.

[David]

Reported by Bloomberg, Goldman cuts Tesla and makes GM a buy on better than expected sales.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-12/goldman-cuts-tesla-and-makes-gm-a-buy-on-better-sales-outlook

[daves87rs]

14 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Are you finding that you are o.k. with masks?

I now have 3 boxes of them (2 with 10 and 1 with 50) and am still working on the first box.  The supermarkets and drug stores are now pushing them.  And, I still have bandannas. 

Are you finding that you are o.k. with hand sanitizer?

I now have small bottles in each room which I accumulated as I checked out of grocery stores.

I have disinfectant wipes in the bathrooms and in the console of my car, not to mention my travel bag.

And, I have 2 mini bottles that are meant for a backpack or whatever, one of which was given to me free as a courtesy when picking up some office supplies.

How supply and demand have changed in one month!

Have a hard time finding Santizer and any kind of wipes here...

Short of my local Kroger or CVS, that is pretty much it. Ran to both ACE and Home Depot once. We do grab some take out from some local places..

Started this whole thing with N95 masks (have a small supply due to asthma/yard work), worked down to a thinner mask, and as of last week-now down to cloth masks. I only wear masks when I am in a public places (stores and such). I do order a bit online more-but order very little as I am still waiting to go back to both jobs (hopefully soon). Wipe down stuff from Krogers (always folks coughing in there).

Would like to stock up a bit more for the second wave.....

[David]

5 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Have a hard time finding Santizer and any kind of wipes here...

Short of my local Kroger or CVS, that is pretty much it. Ran to both ACE and Home Depot once. We do grab some take out from some local places..

Started this whole thing with N95 masks (have a small supply due to asthma/yard work), worked down to a thinner mask, and as of last week-now down to cloth masks. I only wear masks when I am in a public places (stores and such). I do order a bit online more-but order very little as I am still waiting to go back to both jobs (hopefully soon). Wipe down stuff from Krogers (always folks coughing in there).

Would like to stock up a bit more for the second wave.....

Here the modeling by the University of Washington has September 15th as the rough date of the start of the second wave with 10's of thousands expected to die form the second wave of infection across the US.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/washington-state-seattle-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-updates/281-f25ae809-6b2d-4577-8915-2c04f5655589

[daves87rs]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Here the modeling by the University of Washington has September 15th as the rough date of the start of the second wave with 10's of thousands expected to die form the second wave of infection across the US.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/washington-state-seattle-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-updates/281-f25ae809-6b2d-4577-8915-2c04f5655589

I was kinda thinking around that...(on our anniversary-great 😞 )  Since the economy won’t close this time- could be a wildcard.

Don’t want to get too heavy into this (depress the folks here) but I think the protest and the unrest is setting for a perfect storm of sick folks. My thought is it goes two ways:

1. Unrest will keep setting waves over the summer- more chaos now- but a much lighter fall and winter of infections.

2.  It will jump up and down- but will set up a monster amount of sick and infected-possibly worse than the first wave.

What also plays into this will be the weather. Thru the Great Lakes and midwestern areas are supposed to have an Indian Summer- so warmer weather until mid October might help folks be a better shape for winter.....

[A Horse With No Name]

On 6/2/2020 at 7:58 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Makes sense...I finally figured out who you REALLY are! 

You are Yankee Doodle!

You distance yourself from things expelling gas...so Im betting you ride a pony.  Although ponies also expel another type of, ahem, gas. Hear me out.   I got another clue.

You got a feather in your cap.  All I gots to know if you call THAT, macaroni.   

 

 

 

Better make that a Shetland Pony or a quarter horse, he is not exactly a big guy....

 

(Horse ducks from wrench thrown from PA...!)

 

Good morning, everyone. 

[A Horse With No Name]

 

Love the orange, this thing rips. 

[David]

12 hours ago, daves87rs said:

I was kinda thinking around that...(on our anniversary-great 😞 )  Since the economy won’t close this time- could be a wildcard.

Don’t want to get too heavy into this (depress the folks here) but I think the protest and the unrest is setting for a perfect storm of sick folks. My thought is it goes two ways:

1. Unrest will keep setting waves over the summer- more chaos now- but a much lighter fall and winter of infections.

2.  It will jump up and down- but will set up a monster amount of sick and infected-possibly worse than the first wave.

What also plays into this will be the weather. Thru the Great Lakes and midwestern areas are supposed to have an Indian Summer- so warmer weather until mid October might help folks be a better shape for winter.....

I get what your saying, cold allows the virus to replicate and mutate, yet also moisture does the same thing, so too humid of a summer could set us up for a perfect storm of infection and death.

This is following the same trends of the Influenza of 1918 where the first wave hit early spring and then the worse was fall of 1918 before a vaccine was created and it settled down. 

This time, I suspect it will be worse than 1918 as we have more population and with incompetence in government, even with states taking on a bigger role for PPE, I think the civil unrest and global stand up to the cast of 1% that think they are better than the rest is going to leave us with a much larger hit to the population.

One does have to wonder since this is hitting smokers, seniors and out of shape folks harder than those that can afford to eat healthier and stay in shape how much the governments are hoping it kills off the population that relies now on certain government programs. From Social Services to our paid and due to all US citizens who have paid in the much earned Social Security check and Medicare.

We do live in interesting times.

[balthazar]

The difference is we have a coast-to-coast awareness and unprecented PPE in public spaces. I don't believe any 2nd wave will come close to the 1st. I also think the most subceptible succumbed at the highest rate, and perhaps there are less of that group left by the fall (unfortunately).
Heat is going to trump the humidity- the 'host' droplet evaporates and the virus dies in high heat. Humidity is not going to reconstitute that droplet.

IF there actually was any Gov't desire to see a population decrease, it would be MORE than offset by the sheer greed of the revenue stream. State is no better than the federal Gov't in efficiency.

[David]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The difference is we have a coast-to-coast awareness and unprecented PPE in public spaces. I don't believe any 2nd wave will come close to the 1st. I also think the most susceptible succumbed at the highest rate, and perhaps there are less of that group left by the fall (unfortunately).
Heat is going to trump the humidity- the 'host' droplet evaporates and the virus dies in high heat. Humidity is not going to reconstitute that droplet.

IF there actually was any Gov't desire to see a population decrease, it would be MORE than offset by the sheer greed of the revenue stream. State is no better than the federal Gov't in efficiency.

I see the points your are making and will say that I agree in some way with it, that some states over others have stepped up to insure PPE is there for the medical, first line responders and the public is at a much larger time than would ever happen in the past due to the internet for communication to Amazon and others for ease of buying things online such as material to make washable face masks is allowing humanity to react.

We are still in the first wave and seeing surges due to people getting out and about. History is on the side of this fall being worse and will be interesting to see what ends up happening.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html

Good facts on the virus: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Coronavirus-Disease-2019-Basics

Good info for cleaning and disinfecting: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/disinfecting-your-home.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fprepare%2Fdisinfecting-your-home.html

No matter what, I hope everyone here, is able to stay healthy and safe.

[balthazar]

^ ‘Very likely’, ‘generally’, ‘not thought to’, ‘it is believed’.....

That’s NOT what I call “good facts/info” , and from the CDC to boot.

They are still guessing.

[David]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

^ ‘Very likely’, ‘generally’, ‘not thought to’, ‘it is believed’.....

That’s NOT what I call “good facts/info” , and from the CDC to boot.

They are still guessing.

Better to have some medical common sense guidance even vague than incompetent non medical folks making up stuff or trying stuff that is dangerous.

[balthazar]

Basically I agree, but I expect a LOT more from ‘medical experts’ than we’ve gotten. We’re 6 months in, the ‘expert’ info is sketchy and sometimes self-cancelling, and all the future guesswork comes off as an average of ‘cover our ass in case it goes haywire’ and ‘we literally have no idea whatsoever but feel pressured to say SOMETHING’.

 

[David]

19 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Basically I agree, but I expect a LOT more from ‘medical experts’ than we’ve gotten. We’re 6 months in, the ‘expert’ info is sketchy and sometimes self-cancelling, and all the future guesswork comes off as an average of ‘cover our ass in case it goes haywire’ and ‘we literally have no idea whatsoever but feel pressured to say SOMETHING’.

 

Yes, I would totally agree with you. Sadly this is the failure of poor leadership that has forced our medical and health departments into a cover our ass and make something up during a time of investigation.

John Hopkins web site was also very vague even in their Q&A area. sadly, too much politics being played rather than letting the science work and let the leaders of these health organizations state true facts of what they know now without making things up or at least give common sense guidance based on what is happening in the hospitals. 

Our country truly needs to come together and work with empathy more than ever to combat this.

Thank you for being willing to discuss this in a civil manner with me. I truly look for the best in the future for all humanity.

[balthazar]

Not sure what you are specifically referring to above. ‘Leadership’ and ‘failure’ from whom? The medical community?

And I thought we agreed that ‘science’ is still guessing, not “stating true facts”.

Frankly, there was no way the outcome in the US was going to be much different no matter who did what differently. It would’ve had to been Draconian measures such as banning interstate travel by Jan 30.

[balthazar]

This is the B-59 package shelf. 4 small holes at the ends, and a central one... I believe for a rear seat speaker (the convertible's went in the seat back). The ends were just a bit of lightening, I believe- pretty sure there was no rear defroster option.

 

This is the package shelf of a '57 Plymouth. I have next to no idea what was going on here, tho I do know the center hole & slot were for a super-rare rear defroster option. But the outer 2 'speaker' holes aren't that- there was no dual rear speakers in a world of mono AM radios only.

Edited June 13, 2020 by balthazar