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The view of Sally fields posterior as she looks out the back window at about 2:19 is as good as the vintage Pontiac action....enjoy!

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They may be "low maintenance" but I ride a bus every day and we break down a handful of times per year on things that likely aren't just a $100 fix. I wouldn't doubt if they spend $5000 a year maintaining/fixing. The last time we swapped buses when we walked around back there was a puddle of motor oil under the engine. 

Fuel costs is a hue difference in the total operating costs. Personally, I don't know the difference but electricity costs a lot less than diesel and oil. That is where the savings are. Do you think a bus uses $12,000 a year in fuel? 

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Some simple and very estimating maths...

With their estimated range of 120 miles per charge I'll assume 175 miles total per day, with a charge in between, seem fair? Maybe it's way less.. I really don't know. This changes things a lot if the miles dropped to 120. 

Anyway... 

175 * 5 days = 875 miles per week

875 miles * 4.3 weeks per month = 3762.5 miles per month

3762.5 miles * 8 months of school(3 months of summer plus miscellaneous days off for holidays and such =  30100 miles per year.

They get what, 8mpg? 

30100 / 8pmg = 3762.5 gallons

3762.5 gallons * $3.00(gallon of diesel rounded down) = $11,287.50 in fuel costs alone.

@dfelt Figure out what that costs roughly for an EV bus to operate.

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Posted (edited)

^ Interesting anecdote. I rode a school bus everyday thru grade, junior & high school and we never broke down a single time.

Whoa! 175 miles/day for a school bus??
Average bus annual mileage is 8,000 according to feds.
180 days of school (give or take) is 44 miles per day, not 175.

 

Screen Shot 2019-08-23 at 4.29.49 PM.png

Edited by balthazar
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44 miles is a massive difference and can cut the fuel cost in a fourth. 

So about $3000 instead. Much different. 

Living in a rural area, I guess I just assumed they put a lot more than 44 miles a day on them(and they probably do around me). 

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Posted (edited)

A BE bus might only charge once a week (tho without a doubt it'll be written that they charge every. single. night). 
But note how the dollars per miles driven over 80,000 is going to seriously affect the 'cheaper to operate' cost of a bus that's $125 grand more than a diesel version. If a school could operate one for -say- 20 years, that disparity worth diminish. Maybe the rules could be re-written with an EV bus (not holding my breath, because; "THE CHILDREN!!!")
- - - - -
In other news, Drew; time to smash your piggy bank open!
http://www.roadkill.com/someone-is-selling-a-267-mph-oldsmobile-aerotech-on-craigslist-for-3-5-million/?fbclid=IwAR1tpQwn0dEm26xI2JPYkC3Wy1Lo6zAVhlI81MR09rTFxVOAdwBDMcre0uo

Edited by balthazar

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

😄 buses seem logical for BE power.... as long as $500,000 buses dont bump school taxes as they explode budgets.

After about five years, an BEV school bus will pay for itself in diesel and motor oil and other maintenance savings.   I would like to see municipal buses be replaced by BEVs too for the same reasons.

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53 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Interesting anecdote. I rode a school bus everyday thru grade, junior & high school and we never broke down a single time.

Oh yeah, it isn't a school bus I ride to work..lol 

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

After about five years, an BEV school bus will pay for itself in diesel and motor oil and other maintenance savings.   I would like to see municipal buses be replaced by BEVs too for the same reasons.

No it very likely won't; the buy-in premium is far too high. $70K vs. $200K. If buses could be allowed to be in service for longer, or ran a lot more miles, the answer might be otherwise. Too high price for a BE bus, too short a service life, too little miles.

I too thought it was a good possible market, but the numbers aren't even close.

If you have other numbers, please post them up.

Edited by balthazar

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@ccap41 @balthazar

Funny you guys are discussing this as Columbia University just released an indepth long term cost annalysis of EV Bus versus Diesel bus and for the 12yr life of the buses even with the EV bus for mass transit costing with charging equipment about $300,000 more than Diesel, the EV bus saves $39,000 a year compared to Diesel and this is taking into account paying for the Driver and everything.

http://www.columbia.edu/~ja3041/Electric Bus Analysis for NYC Transit by J Aber Columbia University - May 2016.pdf

This was a report done in 2016 for NY. The end result of this study then was that the lifetime cost of operating an electric bus was $1.18 million compared to $1.35 million for diesel buses over the 12 year life.

More than I care to dig through due to work, but you can search for electric versus diesel or ev versus diesel and you will find tons of reports that show the cost of electricity and maintenance on EV buses versus Diesel buses have Electric coming up the winner. Matching Diesel in cost but cleaner air and quieter operation is LNG/CNG buses.

https://www.transit.dot.gov

On top of this is Proterra which has 400, 500 and 600 mile range electric buses for sale for mass transit are guaranteeing a lower cost of operation compared to Diesels. Proterra is also offering a leasing program to help departments write off the cost of the buses better.

https://www.proterra.com/press-release/proterra-and-mitsui-co-ltd-create-200-million-credit-facility-to-scale-proterra-battery-leasing-program/

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Funny you guys are discussing this as Columbia University just released an indepth long term cost annalysis of EV Bus versus Diesel bus and for the 12yr life of the buses….

Doesn't seem like you read any of the conversion above, dave. 
EVs lose compared to diesel in the school bus segment. Different operating parameters.

Edited by balthazar

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3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Doesn't seem like you read any of the conversion above, dave. 
EVs lose compared to diesel in the school bus segment. Different operating parameters.

First just to make it clear, please call me DAVID. I am not Dave.

Second, I did not miss the School bus thing but wanted to get all my info so you guys @ccap41 can see the difference here. 

There are multiple companies that are taking old Blue Bird diesel school buses and converting them to electric with 100 mile range for much less of a cost than a new Blue Bird School bus yet needing 15yrs of use to equal the 12yr Diesel school bus use.

Multiple reports based on 2018 technology says that EV School buses will equal cost of Diesel school buses by 2030.

http://www.orkas.com/ev-school-buses-take-two/

At this same time, Blue Bird School buses just announced a new EV School bus with Bus to Grid feature. These new buses have a 150kW battery pack with a dedicated 100 mile range making them perfect for a days use of morning and afternoon routes. Recharge over night and back at it the next day.

Better yet, if for some reason power issues hit, the buses can be plugged back in and the power used from the buses by the buildings.

https://electrek.co/2017/07/14/all-electric-school-buses-blue-bird/

Now with that, the EPA also has reports that show that with Solid State batteries, this will be the game changer that should allow more types of Bus / Commercial fleet use to make cost parity come way down on an EV version over Diesel. Just search the EPA site link I posted earlier and you can find the reports on it.

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On top of this, California is using Voter approved funds to replace a big bulk of the diesel buses with clean EV school buses to reduce student exposure to air pollution and help the state reach voter approved clean air standards sooner.

https://ngtnews.com/california-funds-hundreds-of-diesel-to-electric-school-bus-replacements

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Seems we have reached a trade deal with Japan but NO CHANGE in how they treat auto's going into Japan or what they ship to the US.

So much for Trade negotiations to give US auto companies better access to foreign markets.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Japan-and-US-reach-trade-deal-by-putting-off-auto-tariffs

🙄

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, dfelt said:

On top of this, California is using Voter approved funds to replace a big bulk of the diesel buses with clean EV school buses to reduce student exposure to air pollution and help the state reach voter approved clean air standards sooner.

https://ngtnews.com/california-funds-hundreds-of-diesel-to-electric-school-bus-replacements

$70,000,000 / 225 buses = $311,111 paid for a $60,000 bus.
Insanity in CA knows no boundaries. 
Article goes on to claim they'll save $120,000 in maintenance per bus over 20 years (I guarantee you CA school districts do no permit 20 yr old buses in their fleet); They save $120K in maintenance but paid $250K more to buy them. That means each bus will COST the district another $130K to the bottom line. 

Edited by balthazar
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Sitting at a buick dealer. Why are buick gmc stores always such dead sad yucky places. Go to a Honda shop it’s hopping GM needs to figure out that their dealerships and sales strategies might be a big reason folks don’t go

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4 hours ago, regfootball said:

Sitting at a buick dealer. Why are buick gmc stores always such dead sad yucky places. Go to a Honda shop it’s hopping GM needs to figure out that their dealerships and sales strategies might be a big reason folks don’t go

reminds me of what it will be like at the admissions office into a nursing home

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