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Interesting review on how the Kia Telluride is still king after 18,000 miles especially over the Hybrid Highlander from Toyota.

I will say that they mention the 2021 winner being the Land Rover Defender and after seeing the video @A Horse With No Name I believe posted about a review group who bought for long term testing a Defender and are on their 3rd one in only 200 miles, I highly question their 2021 Winner.

I have not heard of the issues for the Kia compared to the Defender.

2020 Kia Telluride Long-Term Update: Still the King After 18,000 Miles (motortrend.com)

Love write ups like this on cool Barn finds, but I do find it sad that someone bought it and just let it sit rather than enjoy driving it.

Barn Find Cars, Chevy Camaro Edition: Featuring ’69 Z/28s and a Yenko Conversion (motortrend.com)

I have started to wonder if BMW and their huge grill is them wanting to really be a Royal Royce Phantom as those auto's also have a huge freak'in grill. 🤔

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2021 GMC Sierra Elevation crew cab / 6.5' bed. 3.0L DuraMax / 10-spd.   It's only money.

This whole crossover craze has gone a bit too far....

• • • ORDERED A TRUCK TODAY. • • •

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7 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

I don't know how I became part this fray, but your outburst is nonsensical. I don't dislike you and I never left... I simply haven't found much to comment about on this tread lately exactly because of the prevalence of this kind of diatribe.

My position on EV is very simple and it hasn't changed.

(1) EVs do not currently make economic sense because of the cost of batteries exceeds the cost of fuel over the lifetime of the battery (and often times that of the vehicle). That is why they need subsidizes and tax bates to survive on the market.

(2) EVs also do not make convenience sense because they cannot be recharged in 3 minutes like a gas tank can be refueled. This is a big deal because convenience is the very reason automobiles exist -- if you don't care much for it you'll be happy waiting for the bus and consulting train schedules.

(3) That said, EVs do offer a massive leap in refinement because of the lack of vibrations and noise from electric motors. However, brands like Tesla have done a terrible job making their vehicles refined, luxurious or simply quiet.

(4) Given the above, I have always advocated for a primarily electric vehicles with a SMALL battery enough for 40~50 miles and a micro turbine generator -- which does not have to be efficient, just extremely compact and devoid of a cooling system -- for infrequent trips that exceed that.

The man makes some good points. 🙂  Adding thoughts:

1) I think cost is going to be big- but I also wonder if the batteries will be able to be repaired by cell, or if the whole thing gets tossed like a Duracell. I can also add the cost to charge it up....

2) Time is still an issue, but like phones, I think they will be able to charge them faster. And, like gas powered cars, they would not need to be fully charged- enough to get home to finish it up. Still requires planning though!

3) For all the talk about Tesla, their cars remind me of cheap Chinese cars you see crash tested. I have yet to know a person who has a Tesla that has not has not had some sort of issue with it. And most of it from being cheap. I used to work for a supplier that fed parts to Tesla, and they were famous for cutting corners.......

 

4) Agreed!

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2 hours ago, daves87rs said:

The man makes some good points. 🙂  Adding thoughts:

1) I think cost is going to be big- but I also wonder if the batteries will be able to be repaired by cell, or if the whole thing gets tossed like a Duracell. I can also add the cost to charge it up....

2) Time is still an issue, but like phones, I think they will be able to charge them faster. And, like gas powered cars, they would not need to be fully charged- enough to get home to finish it up. Still requires planning though!

3) For all the talk about Tesla, their cars remind me of cheap Chinese cars you see crash tested. I have yet to know a person who has a Tesla that has not has not had some sort of issue with it. And most of it from being cheap. I used to work for a supplier that fed parts to Tesla, and they were famous for cutting corners.......

 

4) Agreed!

Like I said elsewhere...Tesla fails to understand 1940s technology. They need to do basic fundamental manufacturing right.

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Screen Shot 2020-06-21 at 7.23.28 AM.png

Ohio has a garage full of woodworking equipment that should have this in it instead.... gorgeous.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

1925 Graham ::

25 Graham.png

I would like to learn more about Graham. They built interesting vehicles.

8 hours ago, David said:

This looks like Killer Fun!

 

Just....no.

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9 hours ago, David said:

Interesting review on how the Kia Telluride is still king after 18,000 miles especially over the Hybrid Highlander from Toyota.

I will say that they mention the 2021 winner being the Land Rover Defender and after seeing the video @A Horse With No Name I believe posted about a review group who bought for long term testing a Defender and are on their 3rd one in only 200 miles, I highly question their 2021 Winner.

I have not heard of the issues for the Kia compared to the Defender.

2020 Kia Telluride Long-Term Update: Still the King After 18,000 Miles (motortrend.com)

Love write ups like this on cool Barn finds, but I do find it sad that someone bought it and just let it sit rather than enjoy driving it.

Barn Find Cars, Chevy Camaro Edition: Featuring ’69 Z/28s and a Yenko Conversion (motortrend.com)

I have started to wonder if BMW and their huge grill is them wanting to really be a Royal Royce Phantom as those auto's also have a huge freak'in grill. 🤔

Telluride is the current King of three row SUV's

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14 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

I don't know how I became part this fray, but your outburst is nonsensical. I don't dislike you and I never left... I simply haven't found much to comment about on this tread lately exactly because of the prevalence of this kind of diatribe.

My position on EV is very simple and it hasn't changed.

(1) EVs do not currently make economic sense because of the cost of batteries exceeds the cost of fuel over the lifetime of the battery (and often times that of the vehicle). That is why they need subsidizes and tax bates to survive on the market.

(2) EVs also do not make convenience sense because they cannot be recharged in 3 minutes like a gas tank can be refueled. This is a big deal because convenience is the very reason automobiles exist -- if you don't care much for it you'll be happy waiting for the bus and consulting train schedules.

(3) That said, EVs do offer a massive leap in refinement because of the lack of vibrations and noise from electric motors. However, brands like Tesla have done a terrible job making their vehicles refined, luxurious or simply quiet.

(4) Given the above, I have always advocated for a primarily electric vehicles with a SMALL battery enough for 40~50 miles and a micro turbine generator -- which does not have to be efficient, just extremely compact and devoid of a cooling system -- for infrequent trips that exceed that.

Hi Dwight, Always appreciate your take and input on this.

1) I will disagree with you on economic sense. If looking at the bigger picture of how much toxic exhaust to toxic chemicals current ICE auto's can drop into the environment as well as the affect an ICE auto has versus an EV auto on the same environment, for people who can afford them now, they would see the long term affect of having a 21st century EV auto as being cost effective. One cannot just take a black and white approach to EVs due to cost alone. The bigger picture of how auto's affect the planet's climate cannot be denied as they exhaust does have an affect and many people are taking that into affect. On top of this battery costs are being reduced greatly each year and I do expect by 2025 to be on par with ICE.

2) We have had this discussion @Drew Dowdell has pointed out the change in thinking many times and we are moving to get there with rapid charging and solid state batteries that can recharge in minutes. Currently you cannot unless it is an Econ box sub compact with a tiny gas tank of less than 10 gallons fuel all auto's in 3 min. Average fuel tank size on full size trucks and SUV's is 26 gallons. USA limits gas pumps to a maximum flow of 10 gallons a minute from the main tank if all else is perfect. With filters and multiple auto's fueling this rate is usually reduced to an average of 5 gallons per min based on the industry. That would mean for an average 26 gallon fuel tank your are taking from empty 5 to 6 minutes to fuel. Yet many people fill up from a quarter tank or due to limited funds only put in a few dollars and go. EV you can always just get enough energy to get home and then plug in and finish over night. EV's will cause a change in approach to how one fuels their auto due to options that never existed with ICE auto's.

3) Totally agree with you on this point, I think the existing OEMs will bring a far superior EV auto to market due to their experience in mass production that Tesla has FAILED to learn from.

4) I totally get this point and I think that is where Hybrids will come in for those that have a harder time changing habits with an EV. I do believe that the newest solid state battery designs that have been published and are going into production for auto's that will come to market in 2024 and 2025 will help greatly with this as we see increased energy density in the individual cells that will allow for smaller battery packs where needed or keeping the same size but drastically increasing range. Already GM has revised their Ultium battery packs to now have 450 miles of range.

6 hours ago, daves87rs said:

The man makes some good points. 🙂  Adding thoughts:

1) I think cost is going to be big- but I also wonder if the batteries will be able to be repaired by cell, or if the whole thing gets tossed like a Duracell. I can also add the cost to charge it up....

2) Time is still an issue, but like phones, I think they will be able to charge them faster. And, like gas powered cars, they would not need to be fully charged- enough to get home to finish it up. Still requires planning though!

3) For all the talk about Tesla, their cars remind me of cheap Chinese cars you see crash tested. I have yet to know a person who has a Tesla that has not has not had some sort of issue with it. And most of it from being cheap. I used to work for a supplier that fed parts to Tesla, and they were famous for cutting corners.......

 

4) Agreed!

GM Ultium design of small cell packs allows for ease of replacement if a section has a bad cell or two. This does allow for repair rather than total replacement. Toshiba, LG and Samsung have all moved to a modular design for this very reason. Panasonic has stated they have battery change designs coming, but have not clearly stated what those changes are. Tesla seems to want to build excess cells in to off set the potential for a bad cell or two but has remained vague on this. 

It will be interesting to see the direction we go in how battery repairs / maintenance is done for EV auto's.

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Ummm @oldshurst442... what did I do to get drawn into this fight lol? Long time my friend.. but after sifting thru some of this.. I am still lost as to why @ocnblu is so in love with ICES that he still finds the need to talk $h! about the EV movement. INSANITY.. Propulsion that moves us around faster and more efficiently and if I rev the engine/motor/ up with a kid standing behind it... he won't get carbon monoxide poisoning and die? U'd think NO BRAINER. OCNBLU.. U must work for an oil company up there in PA. Rest assured.. I'm trying to hold out for either that Hummer EV or the Escalade EV as my next. Completely ready to exchange everyone of my gas burner V8s for a plug-in. 

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1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Ummm @oldshurst442... what did I do to get drawn into this fight lol? Long time my friend.. but after sifting thru some of this.. I am still lost as to why @ocnblu is so in love with ICES that he still finds the need to talk $h! about the EV movement. INSANITY.. Propulsion that moves us around faster and more efficiently and if I rev the engine/motor/ up with a kid standing behind it... he won't get carbon monoxide poisoning and die? U'd think NO BRAINER. OCNBLU.. U must work for an oil company up there in PA. Rest assured.. I'm trying to hold out for either that Hummer EV or the Escalade EV as my next. Completely ready to exchange everyone of my gas burner V8s for a plug-in. 

....good to see you back. My sister just bought an Escalade and loves it, thought of you when she drove it home. I now have a Ford and a Chevy in my driveway so I am all domestic...my Daughter jsut boguth a Z06 (C6) thought of you when she brought that home. 

GM should do very well with the electric tech they are developing, for the first time in years I am kind of bullish and optomistic about the US auto industry. 

But I am going to put an little Euro love in here, Ducati....love Euro motorbikes. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Ummm @oldshurst442... what did I do to get drawn into this fight lol? Long time my friend.. but after sifting thru some of this.. I am still lost as to why @ocnblu is so in love with ICES that he still finds the need to talk $h! about the EV movement. INSANITY.. Propulsion that moves us around faster and more efficiently and if I rev the engine/motor/ up with a kid standing behind it... he won't get carbon monoxide poisoning and die? U'd think NO BRAINER. OCNBLU.. U must work for an oil company up there in PA. Rest assured.. I'm trying to hold out for either that Hummer EV or the Escalade EV as my next. Completely ready to exchange everyone of my gas burner V8s for a plug-in. 

Welcome back my friend, great to see you post, been a long time. Hope all is well in your family and no one has been affected by Covid-19.

Stay safe and well everyone.

Sadly, I just learned my nephew who works for the FAA in Chicago and is a Type 1 diabetes had been moved to an administrative roll working from home when the pandemic started. His two room mates continued to work in the tower at Ohara airport. They brought home the virus and now Garrett is sick and had to go to the hospital as the virus does seem to affect those with health issues harder than without.

Stay safe everyone, I would hate to have any of you deal with this virus.

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1 minute ago, David said:

Welcome back my friend, great to see you post, been a long time. Hope all is well in your family and no one has been affected by Covid-19.

Stay safe and well everyone.

Sadly, I just learned my nephew who works for the FAA in Chicago and is a Type 1 diabetes had been moved to an administrative roll working from home when the pandemic started. His two room mates continued to work in the tower at Ohara airport. They brought home the virus and now Garrett is sick and had to go to the hospital as the virus does seem to affect those with health issues harder than without.

Stay safe everyone, I would hate to have any of you deal with this virus.

Very sorry to hear ab out this. It's scary stuff. 

On the bright side, a morning ride through Milwaukee. Enjoy...have a great day, everyone. 

 

 

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On 11/26/2020 at 6:07 AM, ocnblu said:

That pissed me off when I read it... but what would you expect when they have a far leftist parent company.

Thought you were against speaking politics here (and yes, saying things like "but what would you expect when they have a far leftist parent company." is very much political)?

26 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Ummm @oldshurst442... what did I do to get drawn into this fight lol? Long time my friend.. but after sifting thru some of this.. I am still lost as to why @ocnblu is so in love with ICES that he still finds the need to talk $h! about the EV movement. INSANITY.. Propulsion that moves us around faster and more efficiently and if I rev the engine/motor/ up with a kid standing behind it... he won't get carbon monoxide poisoning and die? U'd think NO BRAINER. OCNBLU.. U must work for an oil company up there in PA. Rest assured.. I'm trying to hold out for either that Hummer EV or the Escalade EV as my next. Completely ready to exchange everyone of my gas burner V8s for a plug-in. 

Blu doesn't work for the oil industry but he sure acts like he has lifetime stock in it lol. 

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9 hours ago, balthazar said:

Des Moines, 1939 ::

DesMoinesIA39 1.png

My dad was born in 1939....amazing how much the world has changed since then. 

 

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15 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

I don't know how I became part this fray, but your outburst is nonsensical. I don't dislike you and I never left... I simply haven't found much to comment about on this tread lately exactly because of the prevalence of this kind of diatribe.

My position on EV is very simple and it hasn't changed.

(1) EVs do not currently make economic sense because of the cost of batteries exceeds the cost of fuel over the lifetime of the battery (and often times that of the vehicle). That is why they need subsidizes and tax bates to survive on the market.

(2) EVs also do not make convenience sense because they cannot be recharged in 3 minutes like a gas tank can be refueled. This is a big deal because convenience is the very reason automobiles exist -- if you don't care much for it you'll be happy waiting for the bus and consulting train schedules.

(3) That said, EVs do offer a massive leap in refinement because of the lack of vibrations and noise from electric motors. However, brands like Tesla have done a terrible job making their vehicles refined, luxurious or simply quiet.

(4) Given the above, I have always advocated for a primarily electric vehicles with a SMALL battery enough for 40~50 miles and a micro turbine generator -- which does not have to be efficient, just extremely compact and devoid of a cooling system -- for infrequent trips that exceed that.

Besides the fact that part of your assessment is subjective (example, I knew three people in Arizona that owned Teslas and not ONE complained about it not being quiet or luxurious enough which, again, is a subjective term), its statements like No.2 that have me laughing because its the same argument that the anti-EV crowd likes to use while ignoring the fact that you cannot fill up your ICE auto at home while you eat, sleep, enjoy time with your family. In addition, regarding No.3, there are now other EV options in the luxury game so singling out Tesla doesn't really accomplish much there.

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Getting back to vehicles, the RAM looks damn fine set up as an overlanding rig. 

127109554_10218806596615199_919153195919

11 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Besides the fact that part of your assessment is subjective (example, I knew three people in Arizona that owned Teslas and not ONE complained about it not being quiet or luxurious enough which, again, is a subjective term), its statements like No.2 that have me laughing because its the same argument that the anti-EV crowd likes to use while ignoring the fact that you cannot fill up your ICE auto at home while you eat, sleep, enjoy time with your family. In addition, regarding No.3, there are now other EV options in the luxury game so singling out Tesla doesn't really accomplish much there.

 

 

I do like the idea of fueling at home. 

As Balthazar said, Thread Cleanse. 

128269770_3437019283012060_9223019849582

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On 11/26/2020 at 2:27 AM, balthazar said:

How is BMW unique vs. the other makes? Or Mercedes? Or any mass mainstream brand?
To be honest about it, the auto industry has embraced MASSIVE homogenization.
1990 vs. 2020 :

Screen Shot 2020-11-26 at 2.25.58 AM.png

None of the four is soemthing I want in my driveway. Hard pass....and I get your point...

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Interesting read on Diesel trucks and modifications in America. After the Diesel Brothers Discovery show was found and fined $850,000 for illegal modifications to diesel auto's, the EPA did research and reported on the roughly 15% of Diesel auto's that are running around with illegal performance modifications that have greatly increased the Toxic spew out of the tail pipe poisoning the local community in which they live.

Interesting is that this study by the EPA focused on the last 10 years starting from 2010 and found that North Dakota has the highest number of illegal diesel auto's with removed emissions systems at more than 25% of the registered diesels in the state. This is compared to California that inspects yearly the emission systems and has only found on average 3% with deleted emissions systems.

The study does point out how we have gone from high NOX emissions in the 80's to super clean today and when you remove the emissions system, we go back to being even worse than the 1980's and this is due to the power of the modern diesel motors and what they put out to produce such power. The need to burn up the toxic emissions.

Very interesting read. 🤔

Illegal emissions tampering on diesel trucks is rampant—and apparently a big business (greencarreports.com)

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7 minutes ago, David said:

Interesting read on Diesel trucks and modifications in America. After the Diesel Brothers Discovery show was found and fined $850,000 for illegal modifications to diesel auto's, the EPA did research and reported on the roughly 15% of Diesel auto's that are running around with illegal performance modifications that have greatly increased the Toxic spew out of the tail pipe poisoning the local community in which they live.

Interesting is that this study by the EPA focused on the last 10 years starting from 2010 and found that North Dakota has the highest number of illegal diesel auto's with removed emissions systems at more than 25% of the registered diesels in the state. This is compared to California that inspects yearly the emission systems and has only found on average 3% with deleted emissions systems.

The study does point out how we have gone from high NOX emissions in the 80's to super clean today and when you remove the emissions system, we go back to being even worse than the 1980's and this is due to the power of the modern diesel motors and what they put out to produce such power. The need to burn up the toxic emissions.

Very interesting read. 🤔

Illegal emissions tampering on diesel trucks is rampant—and apparently a big business (greencarreports.com)

They really need to crack down on this here in Ohio. Seriously. Fine people and impound trucks. 

Financial pentalties for this houdl be severe. Do not mind the Diesel Brothers being fined. 

Glad someone did it. 

Edited by A Horse With No Name
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