Buick News: Rumorpile: General Motors Moves Forward With Buick Envision Import Plans

[William Maley 932]

A vehicle that many Buick dealers and a number of us here at Cheers & Gears have been wanting for a while could finally be arriving next year. Automotive News and the Wall Street Journal report that the Buick Envision will be coming to the U.S. Sources tell AN that General Motors is likely to green light the Envision for export to the U.S. as early as late spring. The Wall Street Journal says the company is targeting annual sales of 30 to 40,000 Envisions per year.

 

Now the Envision would be the first vehicle sold by the Detroit 3 that is imported from China. It will not be the first Chinese-built vehicle sold in the U.S., that honor goes to Volvo with the S60 Inscription.

 

Back in August, the UAW was not pleased with the possibility of GM exporting the Envision from China, saying it was 'alarming'. But the Journal says GM and the UAW "appear to have come to an understanding” after talking about it during contract negotiations.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Wall Street Journal

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[cp-the-nerd 452 2 Vehicles]

I'm not happy when GM imports models in general (with rare exception: Chevy SS), I'm borderline-offended that they would import from China.

[Drew Dowdell 10,202 2 Vehicles]

We're exporting Enclaves from the US to China and have been for a few years now... so it's an even swap.

 

And it makes sense... Buick will sell more Envisions in China than in the US and they sell more Enclaves in the US than they do in China.  Build 'em where you're going to sell the most of them.

[El Kabong 275]

If the build quality is there then I guess you have to do it. But it is a bit troubling to see the last bit of manufacturing that North America has a decent grip on begin to slip away.

[Drew Dowdell 10,202 2 Vehicles]

If the build quality is there then I guess you have to do it. But it is a bit troubling to see the last bit of manufacturing that North America has a decent grip on begin to slip away.

 

 

yes, that would be troubling if that were the case, but it's not.

 

Since the BK, and even before the latest round of UAW agreements, all three of the big three have re-expanded production in the US.  The UAW agreements recently reached ensure that trend will continue.  GM is doubling the size of Arlington and they made huge investments in their Michigan facilities. 

 

Hyundai/Kia have been expanding their manufacturing in the US. 

Subaru is increasing the capacity of the Indiana plant by something like 30% (don't quote me, but it's a good chunk) to build the Impreza and the new 3-row crossover.

 

Mercedes just contracted with AM General to use the former Humvee plant to build R-Classes to sell in China.  The R-Class isn't even sold in the U.S.

 

The Volvo built in China will be a one-and-done.  When the new platform arrives, production will swing to the new plant they are building in South Carolina where most US sold Volvos will thenceforth be built.

 

American Auto Manufacturing is very much alive and growing again.

 

 

Back when energy prices soared at the end of the last administration, all manufacturers got caught with their pants down... but auto manufacturers especially.  Seemingly overnight, their shipping costs jumped 100% or more.  After that, there formed an understood but unspoken policy of "If you have the capacity, build it on the continent where you're going to sell the most of them... if you don't have the capacity, build the capacity."

 

And like the Volvo, if this Envision takes off in the US, I can see GM moving production to North America for North American bound units.

[El Kabong 275]

Oh.

Must be a Canada thing then

[Suaviloquent 1,030]

Maybe that's why Oshawa is getting the Delta Platform Equinox?

[El Kabong 275]

Pretty sure it's Ingersoll, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong on that.

[smk4565 970]

A Chinese built car will be a hard sell.

 

I do think this opens up the slippery slope of build more and more in China where labor is cheap, and send those manufacturing jobs over seas.  Most car companies build vehicles where they get sold (with the exception of low volume), but if GM can get super cheap labor in China, they don't need the UAW factories anymore.  

[Suaviloquent 1,030]

Yeah I'm kind of a dumba$$ where it comes to Canadian GM facilities. Must be that Markham plant subliminal messaging trying to subvert any knowledge of GM and Ford.

 

Well, the Encore and Traxx are built in South Korea, and they sell surprisingly well.

 

GM still builds its compacts here. But yeah, I'd say it's fair to say that for the most part, more vehicles from America are exported to China than the other way around.

 

I do know that the previous gen Honda Fit was made in China for Canadian consumption. It was an utterly well built tin can that destroyed people's ear drums while they were driving it.

 

Also, Mexico is the new automotive assembly jurisdiction of choice. Can't avoid that NAFTA. *Grumble (but uor jerbs!!!)*

[Drew Dowdell 10,202 2 Vehicles]

A Chinese built car will be a hard sell.

 

I do think this opens up the slippery slope of build more and more in China where labor is cheap, and send those manufacturing jobs over seas.  Most car companies build vehicles where they get sold (with the exception of low volume), but if GM can get super cheap labor in China, they don't need the UAW factories anymore.  

 

Chinese labor isn't as cheap anymore and there is the huge uncertainty of energy costs involved in shipping cars.

 

If I had to guess.... Buick needed this car in the US three years ago, but with all of the other stuff coming, there isn't a place to build it, so they're just going to build it in China until they can find a place.

[hyperv6 778]

This is the deal. The Buick will be here before the Nox. That being the case there is no plant yet set up to build this model.

I read Buick the first year expects only 30-40K to be imported. This sounds to be the same deal as the Regal when the first year was imported from Germany and them moved to Canada.

Quality is not an issue as these products are made to a standard and it matters little where the plant is.

The bottom line is if they plan to expand production over the small number they have stated they will need to move it here and by then the Nox and Terrain line should be up and the Buick could easily joint them.

Also this sends a signal to the UAW that they have options so negotiate in good faith

[El Kabong 275]

Trust me on this: build quality varies quite a bit from country of origin to country of origin. Even within a single company.

[hyperv6 778]

A Chinese built car will be a hard sell.

 

I do think this opens up the slippery slope of build more and more in China where labor is cheap, and send those manufacturing jobs over seas.  Most car companies build vehicles where they get sold (with the exception of low volume), but if GM can get super cheap labor in China, they don't need the UAW factories anymore.

Labor and shipping is not as cheap as you thing. Now in a case of lower volumes as this will be in the first year it is cheaper but expand volume it will be moving here.

As for hard to sell the majority of the public have no idea they no longer put a spare in most cars let alone where it is made. Hell they can't even name who is Vice President.

The UAW will squawk a little but it will die down.

Have you seen an out cry for the Tesla 3 moving to China for production. Has anyone really noticed the Jeep Renegade is from Italy? Not really. It is a different market today.

GM would build everything here but then people won't buy if the price is too high too.

Everyone wants to make a million dollars but they all want to shop at Walmart. Think about it. The Viscous Cycle.

[El Kabong 275]

The last part of your post pretty much echoes what I was saying during the Takata mess: Wal-Mart nation gets what Wal-Mart nation deserves.

Edited November 14, 2015 by El Kabong

[Drew Dowdell 10,202 2 Vehicles]

This is the deal. The Buick will be here before the Nox. That being the case there is no plant yet set up to build this model.

 

 

Thanks Hyper, that was the gist of what I was getting at but with more detail.

[hyperv6 778]

The last part of your post pretty much echoes what I was saying during the Takata mess: Wal-Mart nation gets what Wal-Mart nation deserves.

It is not so much that. Everyone thinks if we stop buying Walmart they will be enriched. That is still a dead end just as if we continue to pay lower prices.

The key to getting ahead is to improve your life and not rely on just the cost of items or hand out from governments.

The path of improvement is shown by many who come to this country with nothing and have nothing given to them. To do this you must educate yourself or attain a solid needed skill few have and work hard.

The problem today many in this country grew up with everything and have had many things handed to them. Then they get out of school and expect to have it all handed to them and live like their parents who worked 50 years to get what they had.

Lets face it so many younger people today want the fancy car and the big house at 24 years and still not show up everyday at work because the new Call of Duty game just came out. I see it often at very good paying jobs.

I worked near a Cambodian community years ago. They were in a bad neighborhood and most came here with nothing after the war in the 70's. They took nothing from the government but were a tight family based community that worked hard. They got their kids educated and started business. That group today is one of the most successful groups of people for miles around. They should be used as an example of what can be done. Yet we have so many people going around wanting things given to them just look at the latest round of mess at the universities.

The bottom line here is the path of prosperity is not from stop shopping at Walmart, the government giving you free collage or the union that demands more and more wages for the same amount of output. That is just all parts of the viscous circle that continues to repeat and repeat.

If people want to advance they must break out. While I did do all the Cambodians did here I did work my way through collage and I worked some crappy jobs to get where I am at today. I may not live in Malibu but I do have it well and earned what I have as no man gave it to me.

While the depression did a lot of damage it taught a lot of people how to survive and thrive on their own. We have lost that today. I can not get people to show up to work daily and they lose their job. I had one woman who got drunk and ran over of all things a cop. It is just getting hard to find people with what it takes anymore.

Sorry for the rant but when I see the full on attacks on Walmart I am not defending them but just pointing out they are just a symptom of what greater is wrong here. Too few know about it and even many who do they don't want to hear that it is on them not Walmart or the government to enrich their own lives.

Sorry for the off topic but I was painting some rooms tonight and listening to the TV and Paris and I really worry about my family and my teen. What will he contribute and what kind of a world will he face. I will prepare him but it is up to him if he makes it or not. I had some expectations too but I learned I had to do it myself and did. I hope he does too.

[hyperv6 778]

This is the deal. The Buick will be here before the Nox. That being the case there is no plant yet set up to build this model.

 

Thanks Hyper, that was the gist of what I was getting at but with more detail.

Sorry back on topic.

No problem. I have been reading post all over the web on this and too few can see the big picture. Too many micro analyze things like this and do not get the whole thing of timing, volume and that one product often is tied to another product.

GM could hold up a year or two an just build this in Canada but then they get trashed for taking too long and some saying why did China get it and not us.

Eve a few here have no idea of the big picture as either they do not consider it or just don't know how things work internally.

I got what you said and was happy to see it. I just thought some needed the rest filled it to get it.

[cp-the-nerd 452 2 Vehicles]

I'll be more open to the situation if the goal is to move production stateside.

[regfootball 882]

i worry the styling isn't good enough.  the interior looks ok, but the exterior is lacking, in a way like the Captiva is awkward compared to the Equinox.  and i don't like so much what i've seen from the new Verano, LaCrosse and Regal teasers and spy shots.  The Avenir looks American. But that's just a concept.

[Suaviloquent 1,030]

Eh, It'll do fine. It looks like a Buick. By that I mean it looks really like nothing else. If anything, being original atleast means that Buick is solidifying its identity.

 

Has anyone seen the teasers for the new Lacrosse to be shown on the 18th?

 

It's the first time I've ever been excited for a Buick. That's a lot to say about folks of my generation.

[ocnblu 2,185 6 Vehicles]

I am with reg on his opinion of the Envision.  There is something about it that is all "parallel universe" in its design.  It is off-putting.  I also agree with those that say a vehicle like this should have been here a while ago from Buick... at the very least for Rendezvous customers who love their vehicle, but need to replace it.  I just hope that any future dedicated N.A. version gains a more traditional Buick design aesthetic.  This is GM being caught flat-footed in their home market.

[hyperv6 778]

#1 Who says it looks like this. Chevy has made major changes for their cars sold in Asia vs. here. What you see here may not be what you totally get. Lets just see what we get before we throw in the towel.

#2 This one is not bad looking in the photo's and if you look around at the others GM could do much worse.

#3 GM was not caught flat footed like Chrysler has been. They did store up many models before the chapter 11 to buy them some time after the dust had settled. While some of the models ages till they got them out they at least did have something and are not trying to sell mild refreshed old models as new. GM has a lot on their plate and there are few companies that could have done as much product and new platforms as fast they have. Sometimes you just have to make do with what you have and they have done well. Buick in the US market is not as important as it is in China and as Opel will be in Europe and Australia.

#4 My real interest is how they will add new SUV models at Buick dealers and not damage sales of the GMC line or even not compete with them. Lets face it 90% of the Buick dealers have GMC in the same showroom. How do you make a similar product Work at the same dealer. The two larger SUV models have not competed as the Enclave is a clear step up. But with this model the Denali Terrain and the XT5 are in similar price range of this vehicle. That should be more of a concern. How to keep them from hurting each other. I expect GM has a plan but I am curious.

[Drew Dowdell 10,202 2 Vehicles]

One assumes the interior of the Envision will be a big step up from the Terrain..... But I'm not a fan of the Terrain/Nox interior, so that shouldn't be much of a hurdle for them.

[hyperv6 778]

One assumes the interior of the Envision will be a big step up from the Terrain..... But I'm not a fan of the Terrain/Nox interior, so that shouldn't be much of a hurdle for them.

I expect the Nox and Terrain to be a step up from what they are now. Being oldest in the segment they are showing what was prime years ago.