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What is really the difference between a full time 4wd and AWD?  My 99 Z71 has a multimode 4wd hat includes 2WD, high, low, and full-time.  And in the fulltime mode it will transfer power between axles for traction.  03-04 Dakotas also offered a fulltime 4wd system with full-time, 4 high, and 4 low.  I am pretty sure the Canyon is available with a fulltime 4wd system as well.  it is one of the things I liked in the Canyon vs the Colorado.  It would still have a 2WD setting btw. 

 

The only thing really special is the torque vectoring in the Honda system and one has to think what ood is that gonna be on a truck?

 

"Full time 4WD, also called permanent 4WD, (not to be confused with:part time 4WD ) is a system that powers all four wheels at all times and it can be used full time on all surfaces including pavement. The additional feature of a differential incorporated into the transfer case makes it possible to use 4WD all the time.

2WD is not available (only part time 4WD offers that option)"

 

 http://www.rubicon-trail.com/4WD101/difference_4WD_awd.html

 

The system the "auto" system that Chevy does, my Avalanche had it, leaves the front wheels on partially.   In Auto, I could drive it normally.  In 4Hi, the front wheels would bind up if I tried to take too tight of a turn. It was more of a "locked front end" when in 4Hi.

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What is really the difference between a full time 4wd and AWD?  My 99 Z71 has a multimode 4wd hat includes 2WD, high, low, and full-time.  And in the fulltime mode it will transfer power between axles for traction.  03-04 Dakotas also offered a fulltime 4wd system with full-time, 4 high, and 4 low.  I am pretty sure the Canyon is available with a fulltime 4wd system as well.  it is one of the things I liked in the Canyon vs the Colorado.  It would still have a 2WD setting btw. 

 

The only thing really special is the torque vectoring in the Honda system and one has to think what ood is that gonna be on a truck?

 

"Full time 4WD, also called permanent 4WD, (not to be confused with:part time 4WD ) is a system that powers all four wheels at all times and it can be used full time on all surfaces including pavement. The additional feature of a differential incorporated into the transfer case makes it possible to use 4WD all the time.

2WD is not available (only part time 4WD offers that option)"

 

 http://www.rubicon-trail.com/4WD101/difference_4WD_awd.html

 

The system the "auto" system that Chevy does, my Avalanche had it, leaves the front wheels on partially.   In Auto, I could drive it normally.  In 4Hi, the front wheels would bind up if I tried to take too tight of a turn. It was more of a "locked front end" when in 4Hi.

 

 

Ya Rock! :metal:

 

That was a great link to explain the differences. Cadillac really needs to clarify the Full Time 4WD. 

 

AWD with a 4LO option is what it really is and that is great.

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What is really the difference between a full time 4wd and AWD?  My 99 Z71 has a multimode 4wd hat includes 2WD, high, low, and full-time.  And in the fulltime mode it will transfer power between axles for traction.  03-04 Dakotas also offered a fulltime 4wd system with full-time, 4 high, and 4 low.  I am pretty sure the Canyon is available with a fulltime 4wd system as well.  it is one of the things I liked in the Canyon vs the Colorado.  It would still have a 2WD setting btw. 

 

The only thing really special is the torque vectoring in the Honda system and one has to think what ood is that gonna be on a truck?

 

"Full time 4WD, also called permanent 4WD, (not to be confused with:part time 4WD ) is a system that powers all four wheels at all times and it can be used full time on all surfaces including pavement. The additional feature of a differential incorporated into the transfer case makes it possible to use 4WD all the time.

2WD is not available (only part time 4WD offers that option)"

 

 http://www.rubicon-trail.com/4WD101/difference_4WD_awd.html

 

The system the "auto" system that Chevy does, my Avalanche had it, leaves the front wheels on partially.   In Auto, I could drive it normally.  In 4Hi, the front wheels would bind up if I tried to take too tight of a turn. It was more of a "locked front end" when in 4Hi.

 

 

Ya Rock! :metal:

 

That was a great link to explain the differences. Cadillac really needs to clarify the Full Time 4WD. 

 

AWD with a 4LO option is what it really is and that is great.

 

 

I think all of the GM products that have 4wd can be run in "auto 4wd" all the time. It hits you at the gas pump, but you can do it.  Most of the time, I ran my Avalanche in 2wd mode because there was no need for more than that.

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Once upon a time all the SUVs were body on frame, rear drive 4x4.  Blazers, Explorers, etc.  Then the wave of front drive unibody crossovers took over.  I think Honda could win some people over.  This level truck isn't used for anything heavy duty.

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Once upon a time all the SUVs were body on frame, rear drive 4x4.  Blazers, Explorers, etc.  Then the wave of front drive unibody crossovers took over.  I think Honda could win some people over.  This level truck isn't used for anything heavy duty.

 

That's exactly what this truck is for.... people who think they need an 4x4 Truck to bring home 10 bags of mulch from Lowes... 

 

(yet my '04 CRV handles at least 16)

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I believe the AWD is not in all for some of the reasons you give but also the fact people are paying more for a Denali just for the extra plastic chrome. lighted rockers and wood trim on the wheel and not expecting a much more expensice drive system. Just look at the Terrain Denali vs. the SLT2. It is not worth the money when your really look at what all you get for the price difference. But yet is sells and makes a lot of money. Standard AWD would add to the cost and not really add an equal amount of money. 
 

I still wish the Denali was like an SS package with some real mechanical hardare on all model that make it special. Be it a larger or more powerful engine a better suspsnesion or the like to go with the trim. Denali on some models today are like what the SS became when it was added ot the old Malibu 10 years ago.

 

I understand but but it is a wish.

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I believe the AWD is not in all for some of the reasons you give but also the fact people are paying more for a Denali just for the extra plastic chrome. lighted rockers and wood trim on the wheel and not expecting a much more expensice drive system. Just look at the Terrain Denali vs. the SLT2. It is not worth the money when your really look at what all you get for the price difference. But yet is sells and makes a lot of money. Standard AWD would add to the cost and not really add an equal amount of money. 

 

I still wish the Denali was like an SS package with some real mechanical hardare on all model that make it special. Be it a larger or more powerful engine a better suspsnesion or the like to go with the trim. Denali on some models today are like what the SS became when it was added ot the old Malibu 10 years ago.

 

I understand but but it is a wish.

I hear what you are saying and would agree with most of it. I believe there is a proper place for the Denali package as is today as most people just want a top of the line auto with trimmings. Then I believe there should be a Denali Syclone and Denali Typhoon packages. These would have everything plus the performance parts.

 

Denali Syclone would be on all trucks.

 

Denali Typhoon would be on all SUV/CUVs.

 

New Package would be:

 

Denali Hurricane package

 

This would be the hardened capabilities of the Hummer on any Truck or SUV/CUV. This would allow GMC to have the H4 to compete with the wrangler but also GMC would then have a Raptor competitor.

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I would build a Raptor competitor but I would not go as far as trying to relive the past.

 

GMC has moved on and needs to create new legends not try to rehash a past that was cool but pails compared to today.

 

The AWD and extra power I see is not so much a performance package like the old Syclone. It is more a point of just giving more to the customer for the extra money. Case in point the standard 6.0 and AWD that has been offered on the Denali Sierra.

 

GMC does need a performance model or two but not on everything. The Denali name is enough. I own a Terrain and trust me it is not my desire for a performance model. I hauls well. Rides great and is comfortable. Luxury is more the point.

​Now to take a Sierra or Canyon and make a  Raptor competitor would be fine and I would love a Sport version of both trucks in 2 wheel drive too. Lowered suspension larger tires and a variety  of engine options. Much like the ZQ8. People could tailor the package to their wallet and taste. Many ZQ8 models were 4 cylinders even with the V6 option. I would love a 2.0 Turbo option in the Canyon. Offer It with a tune package that could easily see 300+ HP and 340 FT#.

 

But in no way can you rehash the Syclone much like the GN. It was what it was for the time and there are new ideas and opportunities that should be created.

 

The fact is when you have no ideas and no money living in the past is a quick, cheap and easy way out. GM does not have to live that way anymore.

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Regardless of personal opinion, the hard fact remains that what is familiar has a leg up in marketing.

Look, for example, at the candy industry. The popular, volume names have been around forever. Reese's Pieces is a newcomer, and it's 37 years old.

Challenger, Mustang, Camaro, Stingray, Ferrari, Lambo (basically building the same silhouette since 1973) wouldn't be all doing excellent if they didn't speak to potential buyers on both a product AND image basis. Look at what "Hemi" has done for Chrysler.

 

The bottom of "NEW!!" is structurally unsound. Auto design as at it's 95th percentile of development right now (it's also why you see the degree of retro we've seen in the last 15-20 years. No major automotive OEMs EVER did 'retro' before the 2000s. The well is nearly dry). Marketing is right there with it (witness the madness of nothingness of alphanumerics, pretty much decoupled from the 'code' it was brought out under). 

 

If the product can be well engineered & designed, speak to a targeted segment that will buy at levels to reasonably support a ROI, going with heritage marketing can be the one thing that pushes ROI over into the black. IMO, were Buick to bring out a dedicated, slinky performance coupe with 'high image', and the market folk had it boiled down to "ARX66" and "Grand National", there's one choice that's unquestionably smarter than the other, from a business perspective.

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I would build a Raptor competitor but I would not go as far as trying to relive the past.

 

GMC has moved on and needs to create new legends not try to rehash a past that was cool but pails compared to today.

 

The AWD and extra power I see is not so much a performance package like the old Syclone. It is more a point of just giving more to the customer for the extra money. Case in point the standard 6.0 and AWD that has been offered on the Denali Sierra.

 

GMC does need a performance model or two but not on everything. The Denali name is enough. I own a Terrain and trust me it is not my desire for a performance model. I hauls well. Rides great and is comfortable. Luxury is more the point.

​Now to take a Sierra or Canyon and make a  Raptor competitor would be fine and I would love a Sport version of both trucks in 2 wheel drive too. Lowered suspension larger tires and a variety  of engine options. Much like the ZQ8. People could tailor the package to their wallet and taste. Many ZQ8 models were 4 cylinders even with the V6 option. I would love a 2.0 Turbo option in the Canyon. Offer It with a tune package that could easily see 300+ HP and 340 FT#.

 

But in no way can you rehash the Syclone much like the GN. It was what it was for the time and there are new ideas and opportunities that should be created.

 

The fact is when you have no ideas and no money living in the past is a quick, cheap and easy way out. GM does not have to live that way anymore.

 

Usually I can agree with the majority of your thinking, but this time I have to disagree. The Syclone and Typhoon have performance heritage that is not tarnished and you could use the names on 21st century  modern versions. Maybe these would have AWD with an Electric boost system that we have seen in other auto's. I believe you are right that not all legacy names should be reused, but some sure could be used over again on a 21st century version auto.

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I would build a Raptor competitor but I would not go as far as trying to relive the past.

 

GMC has moved on and needs to create new legends not try to rehash a past that was cool but pails compared to today.

 

The AWD and extra power I see is not so much a performance package like the old Syclone. It is more a point of just giving more to the customer for the extra money. Case in point the standard 6.0 and AWD that has been offered on the Denali Sierra.

 

GMC does need a performance model or two but not on everything. The Denali name is enough. I own a Terrain and trust me it is not my desire for a performance model. I hauls well. Rides great and is comfortable. Luxury is more the point.

​Now to take a Sierra or Canyon and make a  Raptor competitor would be fine and I would love a Sport version of both trucks in 2 wheel drive too. Lowered suspension larger tires and a variety  of engine options. Much like the ZQ8. People could tailor the package to their wallet and taste. Many ZQ8 models were 4 cylinders even with the V6 option. I would love a 2.0 Turbo option in the Canyon. Offer It with a tune package that could easily see 300+ HP and 340 FT#.

 

But in no way can you rehash the Syclone much like the GN. It was what it was for the time and there are new ideas and opportunities that should be created.

 

The fact is when you have no ideas and no money living in the past is a quick, cheap and easy way out. GM does not have to live that way anymore.

 

Usually I can agree with the majority of your thinking, but this time I have to disagree. The Syclone and Typhoon have performance heritage that is not tarnished and you could use the names on 21st century  modern versions. Maybe these would have AWD with an Electric boost system that we have seen in other auto's. I believe you are right that not all legacy names should be reused, but some sure could be used over again on a 21st century version auto.

 

 

The Syclone was a limited model that was cool but never made a ton of impact long term. The Typhoon is all but forgotten by most including some enthusiast..

 

To do both today they both would be very costly and the more content would reduce the profitability.

 

On the other hand a sport model would give some flexibility to let people built what they want. Also I do see a place for a Raptor competitor if it could be done for the right price. No $70K models here Ford has kept the price down so GM would have to do the same.

​The sales of any performance model will be limited so you have to do it right and smart.

 

As for reusing names there are times and places they work but too often they are the cheap and easy way out. Also many times they are used to fix products that were not right to start with.

 

​GM tried to wait and use the GTO name on the right model after using it on two FWD based show cars. That was the right thing to do but even when they did use it in the hail mary before the bail out trying to save Pontiac.

​I think Lutz knew it was too later but was willing to risk it all in a remote chance they could pull it off. 

 

The Stingray name was fine for the Vette. But while many say they should use the Grand National name or GNX again that is wrong. There is not much relation to a present day car to what the GN really was. Even the meaning behind the GN is no longer viable. It is one that needs left to the ages.

 

Also for Buick they need to move on as if they want people to think they are no the same Buick of the past then stop using the old names. I was pleased the new cars are showing up sans portholes. If you want to be seen as different then be different.

 

Chevy should move on from repeating the LT engine names. This just adds confusion. These new engines are good enough for their own names.

 

The time right now is key for GM to convince they are not the same old GM. They have the best product they have had in decades. So in some key areas I would carry over some names that have not been damaged like Silverado and Malibu or Camaro. But in other areas like Buick I would rename them all. So few people care about the old names as it is the time is right to move on.

 

I really would rather see GMC get more Hummer like and in place of doing a Trax rehash lets revisit the Hummer Jeep concept. Make something more like a Renegade but cooler and less of a box on wheels. In other words butch it up a little.

 

But in the end luxury sells much better than Performance in the SUV segment anymore. Same for the SUV segment. Unless you get real expensive. Now do a car/SUV like the Porsche the performance there or Audi appears a little more in line but the it gets expensive again and more of a Cadillac priced thing.

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The Avista is not a Grand National successor.  It is more rightly a Wildcat.  Authoritative, sporty grand tourer... not a quarter mile good ol' boy two dimensional situation with this car.

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This RL is a worthy successor to previous, which of course is not saying a whole lot. Perfect for Honda customers.  I bet sales will double.  Which is also not saying a lot.  But double is better than zero, so worth the effort.

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The Avista is not a Grand National successor.  It is more rightly a Wildcat.  Authoritative, sporty grand tourer... not a quarter mile good ol' boy two dimensional situation with this car.

 

I never said it was a GT successor.

​But yet many on the web cry to name it that?

 

It is not even a wildcat as it was a large boat and not known for grand touring.

 

You want to convince Buick is not your grandfathers car then don't name the damn thing after your grandfathers car.

 

Granted I am not keen on Alvista but god please save us from repeating the past to those who are looking for a future. The truth is Buick has never really made a car like the Alvista. The closest they have come is the 63-65 Riv and it was not a true Euro like GT like the Alvista is trying to be.

​Then the Riv went the wrong direction if it wanted to be a GT and only got bigger and heavier.

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Well it's an interesting truck, because Hyundai has confirmed it will build a Santa Cruz truck, which will be a competitor to this, and it will also be FWD based.

 

There is segment that is looking for a compelling small(er) truck. It's evident as this is hoe the Tacoma has remained in production and how the GM twins has lit it up.

 

This kind of vehicle is refreshing in its honesty. It's a lifestyle truck. Most truck buyers need nothing more than this. The interior is a carbon copy of the Pilot, so it should be the best in the midsize class.

 

Putting the spare under in a bunker under the bed is just a headscratcher at best and stupid at worst though. 

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The Avista is not a Grand National successor.  It is more rightly a Wildcat.  Authoritative, sporty grand tourer... not a quarter mile good ol' boy two dimensional situation with this car.

 

I never said it was a GT successor.

​But yet many on the web cry to name it that?

 

It is not even a wildcat as it was a large boat and not known for grand touring.

 

You want to convince Buick is not your grandfathers car then don't name the damn thing after your grandfathers car.

 

Granted I am not keen on Alvista but god please save us from repeating the past to those who are looking for a future. The truth is Buick has never really made a car like the Alvista. The closest they have come is the 63-65 Riv and it was not a true Euro like GT like the Alvista is trying to be.

​Then the Riv went the wrong direction if it wanted to be a GT and only got bigger and heavier.

 

I can see it now:  "Buick ALvista Bundy Special Edition".  SUHWEET.

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The Avista is not a Grand National successor.  It is more rightly a Wildcat.  Authoritative, sporty grand tourer... not a quarter mile good ol' boy two dimensional situation with this car.

 

I never said it was a GT successor.

​But yet many on the web cry to name it that?

 

It is not even a wildcat as it was a large boat and not known for grand touring.

 

You want to convince Buick is not your grandfathers car then don't name the damn thing after your grandfathers car.

 

Granted I am not keen on Alvista but god please save us from repeating the past to those who are looking for a future. The truth is Buick has never really made a car like the Alvista. The closest they have come is the 63-65 Riv and it was not a true Euro like GT like the Alvista is trying to be.

​Then the Riv went the wrong direction if it wanted to be a GT and only got bigger and heavier.

 

I can see it now:  "Buick ALvista Bundy Special Edition".  SUHWEET.

 

 

Ok?????

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Not to draw out the far more interesting Buick discussion in a dull Honduh thread, but the Avista is very much so in the '63-65 Riviera position, a very distinctive, powerful upscale 'image' coupe. Wildcat was a trim variant on the full-size models but the Riv was completely unique. They are completely comparable.

 

Spread-01.jpg

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dude really?

You missed the sarcasm in the last couple question marks! :P

Not to draw out the far more interesting Buick discussion in a dull Honduh thread, but the Avista is very much so in the '63-65 Riviera position, a very distinctive, powerful upscale 'image' coupe. Wildcat was a trim variant on the full-size models but the Riv was completely unique. They are completely comparable.

 

Spread-01.jpg

 

That is just sex on wheels.  :wub:

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      According to media who got the chance to see the car in person during a preview event, the 2020 Passat's interior features a new center stack with an updated infotainment system. Overall interior space is still expansive.
      We were hoping that the next Passat would transition over to the MQB platform, but the model will remain on the PQ46 platform that underpins the current model. Why is that?
      “This segment is shrinking, and we figured that we can give the customers all they need with the current platform instead of spending to switch to a new one,” said Kai Oltmanns, product manager for the Passat to Motor1.
      Automotive News reports that the 2020 Passat will retain the turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder and six-speed automatic.
      Pricing for the 2020 Passat will be announced near to its release date, expected to sometime next summer.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Motor1, Volkswagen

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Volkswagen has released some sketches of the upcoming 2020 Passat that will be debuting next month at the Detroit Auto Show. It is clear that the automaker is addressing one of the biggest complaints about the current model, the boring exterior. Volkswagen is taking some ideas from the smaller Jetta with a larger, upright grille; creasing along the side, and new trunk lid design. Aside from the roof, Volkswagen says all of the body panels are new or modified.
      According to media who got the chance to see the car in person during a preview event, the 2020 Passat's interior features a new center stack with an updated infotainment system. Overall interior space is still expansive.
      We were hoping that the next Passat would transition over to the MQB platform, but the model will remain on the PQ46 platform that underpins the current model. Why is that?
      “This segment is shrinking, and we figured that we can give the customers all they need with the current platform instead of spending to switch to a new one,” said Kai Oltmanns, product manager for the Passat to Motor1.
      Automotive News reports that the 2020 Passat will retain the turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder and six-speed automatic.
      Pricing for the 2020 Passat will be announced near to its release date, expected to sometime next summer.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Motor1, Volkswagen
    • By William Maley
      If you were hoping that Chevrolet would bring the house down next month with the debut of the mid-engine Corvette at the Detroit Auto Show, we have some bad news for you.
      GM Authority has learned from GM that Chevrolet isn't planning to show anything car or crossover related at the show. Motor Authority was able to confirm this report by speaking to sources who know GM's plans for future vehicles. It is expected that the Cadillac XT6 crossover will debut at the show.
      Rumor has it that GM could debut the mid-engine Corvette at the New York Auto Show - the original 1953 Corvette debuted at the Motorama event that year in New York - or hold its own event to have the media focus on the new model and nothing else. The latter option seems the most likely to us.
      We'll keep you posted if anything changes.
      Source: GM Authority, Motor Authority

      View full article
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