Welcome Aboard!

[tama z71]

Welcome Aboard!

A Tama Fictional Letter

May 10, 2006

Dear Toyota,

Hi! I'm General Motors, and, welcome! You boys seem set to take my spot at number one. Hell, if I didn't know otherwise, the media would have me believing you were already on top! Oh well. Since you seem set on staying here for a while, I thought I should write you this letter, and let you know what things are like around here! When the time comes to pass that you've officially taken my spot, these tips are going to help acclimate you to the position.

- When you've officially reached number one, you are going to find yourself making all kinds of new friends! Those who have so far supported you will toot your horn far and wide. If the past few years are any indication, expect such praise to last about a year.

- Congratulations! It’s been one year on the throne! Though the monumental sales growth that got you to this point has diminished, there is no reason to stop celebrating. The media is still on your side, and competitors have grown even smaller! Pay-raises for everybody!

- Now that you’re a big boy corporation, it’s time to invest in some little guys. Buy a minimal controlling interest in some of the more obscure fledgling companies still milling about. Nissan has gotten smaller, but a “mutual merger” with Ford would increase your “American Factor” five-fold!

- Uh oh – conservative backlash! While you’ve retained old friends on the coasts, now-jobless union workers are upset at your continued presence here! Allow unionization in your plants to appease those you find desirable!

- More growth! Introduce 3 new brands in five years to retain popularity!

- Congratulations on your fifth-year anniversary as King of the World! (edit: car world! only the car world) Now that you’ve spent a fair amount of time on top, things will start to change. Your old friends in the press will start to question your contributions, and once-standard comparison tests will sway out of your favor. No matter – you’ve still got the ultimate propaganda machine! hint! belie such uncertainties by reminding people how much you’ve contributed to America.

- Growth has stopped in all areas except union strength. Consolidate some platforms to retain profitability.

- Uh-oh! Profits are down, and the auto monthlies now have nothing but bad things to say about your “vanilla cars” and “cheap-o-plasticity” interiors! Initiate final “Americana” campaign to retain consumer favor!

- Well, it’s been 15 years, and already the kingdom is crumbling. The media is now totally against you, railing your company with a countdown until the little guy takes your top spot. Sales are off, reviews are negative, and conventional wisdom calls on your products as “soulless, carbon-copies of themselves.” Sell off all major assets, lose as much idle workforce as possible, and begin to import cars once again in effort to remind everyone that “hey, we are still Japanese, and still superior in quality.”

So, that’s about it! Liquor is in the cabinet, but don’t get too used to the champagne. Eventually, everything you've worked for will be cast aside to make room for the next big guy. Hyundai is a safe bet, but don't count out the Chinese -- they're resilient, and word has it they've already plagiarized every car you will design for the next 12 years.

How did that feel? Get used to it.

[Camino LS6]

Entertaining.

[Ravenfreak13]

but toyotas are already souless carbon copies!

[Sixty8panther]

I think after Huyndai eats Toyota's lunch GM will be cleaning up

and making REAL American cars once again... I hope to god.

[evok]

If it were signed:

General Motors

A retired automobile manufacturer

I would have LMAO

[enzl]

If it were signed:

General Motors

A retired automobile manufacturer

I would have LMAO

Haters unite! Toyota isn't even #1 yet, and you're already giving up!

(I thought all that new product --Lucerne, Impala, GMT900's, etc. were going to stop the slide!)

Why so much venom for Toyota? They didn't sneak up on GM....This day has been coming for a long time and GM has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory...why not congratulate them, wish 'em well, and get on with the business of saving what's left of the empire.

How about more "Fresh Ideas' and less 'mediocre complaints regurgitating other people's rants'???

I've got some ideas as starters:

Less big trucks, more real cars

More GM Europe, less GM Daewoo in the states

More designers, less bean counters

Less divisions, more inspired product

How about that? These types of threads make this place look like a bunch of crybabies...In the real world, getting lknocked down isn't a tragedy, its not getting back up that is one....c'mon, GM, come out swinging!

[tama z71]

Haters unite! Toyota isn't even #1 yet, and you're already giving up!

(I thought all that new product --Lucerne, Impala, GMT900's, etc. were going to stop the slide!)

Why so much venom for Toyota? They didn't sneak up on GM....This day has been coming for a long time and GM has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory...why not congratulate them, wish 'em well, and get on with the business of saving what's left of the empire.

How about more "Fresh Ideas' and less 'mediocre complaints regurgitating other people's rants'???

I've got some ideas as starters:

Less big trucks, more real cars

More GM Europe, less GM Daewoo in the states

More designers, less bean counters

Less divisions, more inspired product

How about that? These types of threads make this place look like a bunch of crybabies...In the real world, getting lknocked down isn't a tragedy, its not getting back up that is one....c'mon, GM, come out swinging!

This was just a humor piece. And everything you listed has been talked about endlessly.

[bowtie_dude]

I agree - GM did not get knocked down because they were #1, they lost the consumer's and media's goodwill after years and years of shoddy, ill conceived, mediocre product.  GM lost touch with the public's taste and the public has moved on. 

Toyota and the media are not to blame for the state of the US OEMs.  The US OEMs are their own worst enemies.  For 30 years they have been ignoring the public and yet stating they are turning the corner and about to right the sinking ship.

In GMs case - I was told Rick said last year "He will fix the company for the last time!"

Let us see if that is the last time I hear that!

PS: Tama I found the piece amusing with my little addition.

Will Toyota begin to lose touch with consumers? What causes that to happen? Nothing but arrogance, which GM had plenty of for the past 30 years and Toyota has oozing out of its ass. Will Toyota repeat GM's mistakes? I think it possible, if Toyotas most recent fumbles, the Yaris, the new 6-spd tranny, Avalon's teething problems, are any indication.

I dunno, its possible that Toyota learned from GMs mistakes, but just as likely that they're destined to repeat them, especially with the Koreans coming up fast on their six.

Time will tell.

[sciguy_0504]

Guaranteed: if the Yaris had ABS, side airbags and power locks/windows standard, which it should, it would be preceived to be as good of a car as it is. Take them out and it's cheap.

Edited May 11, 2006 by sciguy_0504

[evok]

Will Toyota begin to lose touch with consumers?  What causes that to happen?  Nothing but arrogance, which GM had plenty of for the past 30 years and Toyota has oozing out of its ass.  Will Toyota repeat GM's mistakes?  I think it possible, if Toyotas most recent fumbles, the Yaris, the new 6-spd tranny, Avalon's teething problems, are any indication.

I dunno, its possible that Toyota learned from GMs mistakes, but just as likely that they're destined to repeat them, especially with the Koreans coming up fast on their six.

Time will tell.

When Toyota ignores the customer than they will fail like GM. The issues you just mentioned as reported by the press is not relevant. If they start falling JD Power, CR etc, and the issues are not properly rectified in short order Toyota will fail. But at this point all signs indicate that they are the best managed auto company on the globe.

The difference between GM and Toyota arrogance is that Toyota is not letting the customer down. At this time there management has not lost sight that their customers come first.

[Mr.Krinkle]

The difference between GM and Toyota arrogance is that Toyota is not letting the customer down.  At this time there management has not lost sight that their customers come first.

you obviously havent been hearing all the complaints from sqeaks and rattles to cheap plastics to 6 speed transmission and avalon teething problems but its toyota and the best managed company on the globe so well all just look the other way.

[Mr.Krinkle]

PS: Tama I found the piece amusing with my little addition.

that was quite funny. you know what might be more amusing if it was a form letter pohotocopied a couple hundred thousand times and signed by everyone that loses their job.

thatd be really funny.

only a deranged, antisocial, lump of a human being could find the slighest iota of humor in something like that.

[Mr.Krinkle]

could you remind us why gm kicked you to the curb?

[Mr.Krinkle]

the piece was a humorous spin (without the addition) and it took a look at what happens as you reach number one.

the territory that comes with being number one isnt all that lighthearted with wine and roses--for long.

if you dont think you are a target simply for being number one you spend way too much time parkes in front of your computer.

whether its the bulls baskeball, the yankess, any dynasty, the president of the US, anytingh...you become a target. bill gates is hated simply because he is uber loaded. many successful people are hated for the simple reason they are successful.

bill gates was worth 90 billion 7 years ago now a paltry 50 billion. and he doesnt like being the wealthiest person in the world.

find any lottery winner and they will tell you a tale of woe. how these people they dont know crawl out from under a rock just to say hello, i missed you, cuz.

granted id rather have all those problems than not but its incrediby naive to think everyone will love you if you are the best.

tama-i though it was a great read and summarized how things can go horribly wrong in an entertaining way. very tongue in cheek.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[evok]

you obviously havent been hearing all the complaints from sqeaks and rattles to cheap plastics to 6 speed transmission and avalon teething problems but its toyota and the best managed company on the globe so well all just look the other way.

Show me data and not anecdotal stories.

Do not waste my time otherwise as you have been at your attempts to dispute my posts.

You obviously are either very young or not very bright. I can go either way.

[Drew Dowdell]

Show me data and not anecdotal stories.

Do not waste my time otherwise as you have been at your attempts to dispute my posts.

You obviously are either very young or not very bright.  I can go either way.

One doesn't need data. The car rags already prove that.

[Mr.Krinkle]

  I can go either way.

hey, its a free country. you just might not be able to get an official marriage liscence right now.

Do not waste my time otherwise as you have been at your attempts to dispute my posts.

thats really poor english by way...and youd have me believe im either young or not too bright.

you're wrong on both accounts. actually they say the new 70 is like 60 so who knows in these topsy turvy times.

dispute your post?? im merely saying there are more and more unsatisfied toyota consumers. feel free to check it out yourself.

can i go in peace now?

dispute your post--thats rich. it wasnt all that hard.

edit: from the person who believes the toyota camry is better than the 55 chevy. more so than the 57 which was overrated.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Have you been reading the customer complaints on the Avalon by chance, evok?

[CARBIZ]

Do not confound these people with FACTS. That will only scare them.

As this has quickly degenerated into yet another personal attack by a certain person who has also started personal attacks on other threads recently, I think we are all missing the point of this interesting thread.

Frankly, being #1 sucks. You constantly have a target on your back. Look at Ford: since they quietly dropped to the 3rd largest car company in the world, everyone is ignoring them as they set their sights firmly on GM.

Nobody can remain #1 forever.

[enzl]

Do not confound these people with FACTS.  That will only scare them.

  As this has quickly degenerated into yet another personal attack by a certain person who has also started personal attacks on other threads recently, I think we are all missing the point of this interesting thread.

  Frankly, being #1 sucks.  You constantly have a target on your back.  Look at Ford: since they quietly dropped to the 3rd largest car company in the world, everyone is ignoring them as they set their sights firmly on GM.

  Nobody can remain #1 forever.

TaDah....right on time....

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105624

No large automaker escapes the recall blues....The Toyota stories, while certainly not good news for them, are news because their product usually avoids these types of embarassing hiccups.

I don't think those who live in glass houses should cast stones. BTW-pointing out others failings in no way indicates some sort of progress on GM's behalf...I might be beating a dead horse, but I find it exhausting that you guys choose to jump on every competitors' negative story while conveniently avoiding issues like the link above...

I'm rooting for perfect GM launches and better product. If you're building a better mousetrap, the competitions' issues magically become immaterial...let's all hope for that one day, huh?

[Mr.Krinkle]

the whole point of this thread was the territory that comes with being number one.

no one is throwing stones and no one is claiming to be exempt from recalls. the fact of the matter is that when you are number one everyone is gunning for you.

how long was ford in the news concerning their problems. now they are out of the spotlight and there are biger fish to fry.

guaranteed as soon as ford does shift and come back, once they gain momentum all the stories will focus on their tremendous turnaround.

the comeback of the century! (brought to you by toyota!)

toyota wants to be number one, hey who doesnt...just know once that happens things will change. priorities shift. diversification, expansion. increased output....quality control cant compensate for the massive influx of cars and car parts. how could it? the laws of probability will bite them on the ass.

their reputation precedes them on this one, so every recall and glitch kind of eats away at that. their greatest sales point is their so called reliability. of course it hurts to see that maybe they arent so immune to these eventualities.

and as an aside...more people are complaining about their new hondas and toyotas. talk to enough people or read up on message boards or whatever, its not isolated to American made cars.

maybe, and this is just speculation, but maybe all the negative write ups and press have made people more aware of the foibles of a car. the squeaks and rattles... fit and finish inconsistencies. every problem anyone has ever read about pertaining to a chevy or ford taurus or whatever can now be applied to whatever car they decide to purchase.

picture the new camry buyer thinking that they just got te gratest deal and car of a life time...uh oh, thats that noise....that shouldnt be.

it happens.

cars make noise people. i might be more worried if they didnt.

enzl...you would have made a great point if you didnt include the recall link.

it contradicted everything else you said, but i know what you were getting at with that. its not about recalls. it never was.

[Camino LS6]

Even a piece of obvious humor turns into a pissing contest with you guys.

Unbelieveable.

[CARBIZ]

Evok & Enzl. I went back and read the entire thread and it wasn't Krinkle who hijacked this thread...he didn't jump in until both of you had commented on Tama's posting - infact, Tama had to jump in and defend the posting before Krinkle did.

Those of us who are real GM supporters HAVE to defend GM because their is precious little in the media going on to do it.

Enzl - do you not have any sense of delicious irony? You triumphantly post yet another recall of GM's, yet prove the point that I have been trying to make all along - THE RELENTLESS NEGATIVE SLANT OF EVERY PIECE OF NEWS, GOOD OR BAD, ABOUT GM.

"Hmm. Maybe GM's turn signals are trying to tell the carmaker something." Edmunds just can't resist that jab, and every article they ever write is always full of subtle, or not so subtle, jabs at GM.

You've just proved my point. I am fully aware of GM's failings. I drive GM products every day. Have for 15 years. I don't need you to remind me, I have Edmunds.

My mission in life is to stockpile Toyota's and HOnda's failings to make sure that my customers, and everyone I talk to, are educated that when they buy a Toyota product they are not buying something built by God Hersef.

[BatmanGTO]

Nothing but arrogance, which GM had plenty of for the past 30 years and Toyota has oozing out of its ass.

Anal Leakage??? did toyota try those new olean pringles?

and if arrogance come from there thank the car gods i dont have that....

[BatmanGTO]

are educated that when they buy a Toyota product they are not buying something built by God Hersef.

no no no god would have to be a man.... "cuz no woman would F*ck sh*t up this much" George Carlin

[Mr.Krinkle]

Are related to razorsedge?

He went away at around the same time you started spaming this board with your insightful posts.

im gonna go ahead and guess you are asking if i am related to "razorsedge" and i dont know who that is and i dont give a sh*t either. just a quick once over can help these obvious grammatical errors that appear the more angry you get.

you like to change topics or runaway when someone has something contrary to your opinion. much in the same you ran away after saying the 07 camry is better than the 55 chevy.

i got news for you bub...this whole place is filled with opinion, you dont like mine too f*ckin bad. get over it but dont spread false bull$h! and get me tangled up with some chump i dont even know.

spaming? what is that? are you the only one capable of insight here guy?

piss off.

just one question for you...ive been wondering this for a while now, are you and enzl the same person because i noticed you like to answer for him an awful lot. and he answers for you too. you share all the same opinions and stroke each other a helluva lot.

the whole one lies and the other swears routine. just curious. im guessing your both big boys, try and answer for yourselves. thanks.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Mr.Krinkle]

.

  "Hmm.  Maybe GM's turn signals are trying to tell the carmaker something."  Edmunds just can't resist that jab, and every article they ever write is always full of subtle, or not so subtle, jabs at GM.

    My mission in life is to stockpile Toyota's and HOnda's failings to make sure that my customers, and everyone I talk to, are educated that when they buy a Toyota product they are not buying something built by God Hersef.

i noticed that same garbage too. its such a lousy pot shot.

the toyota and honda stuff always gets swept under the carpet.

its nothing to gloat about but it deserves at least equal attention irrespective if you dont usually have these hiccups. yea, hiccups. all of a sudden a major safety recall or defective drivetrain component becomes a hiccup. ooops, pardon me.

the "rules" shouldnt be so arbitrary.

[Mr.Krinkle]

The linked proved the point that all OEM's have issues now and then. 

really professor? weve been saying that all along. you know a glass belly button might help you. this way when your head is so far up your ass you can look and see what were all doing out here.

And if you understood his point, why bring it up

i didnt bring it up.  are you even reading the same thing as me or everyone else.

i said he would have great point witout the theatrical tadah and here everyone look what i found that has nothing to do with anything.

unless you mean...why not bring it up.  there i cant help you.

Tama wrote a funny editorial before it was hijacked by your opinion of everything else besides that.

hijacked? get real. unless its thoughts and gospel according to evok time everything else is hijacked. not bloody likely you half twit. i didnt ask you to bring this on but its here now so i have to deal with it. thats it though. im going to be more selective when it comes to responding to this bs because its really eating into my time now.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Flybrian]

I, like Camino, shake my head.

First off, Evok is not Enzl and Mr. Krinkle is not Razoredge. How do I know? 'Cause I do. Those little accusations have passed their prime.

Second, mutual respect in the face of vastly different opinions should be the protocal of the day here. I don't need to name names; you know who you are.

There's a very good discussion somewhere in here. Let's dust ourselves off and try again, try again.

[enzl]

Evok & Enzl.  I went back and read the entire thread and it wasn't Krinkle who hijacked this thread...he didn't jump in until both of you had commented on Tama's posting - infact, Tama had to jump in and defend the posting before Krinkle did.

  Those of us who are real GM supporters HAVE to defend GM because their is precious little in the media going on to do it. 

  Enzl - do you not have any sense of delicious irony?  You triumphantly post yet another recall of GM's, yet prove the point that I have been trying to make all along - THE RELENTLESS NEGATIVE SLANT OF EVERY PIECE OF NEWS, GOOD OR BAD, ABOUT GM.

  "Hmm.  Maybe GM's turn signals are trying to tell the carmaker something."  Edmunds just can't resist that jab, and every article they ever write is always full of subtle, or not so subtle, jabs at GM.

  You've just proved my point.  I am fully aware of GM's failings.  I drive GM products every day.  Have for 15 years.  I don't need you to remind me, I have Edmunds.

  My mission in life is to stockpile Toyota's and HOnda's failings to make sure that my customers, and everyone I talk to, are educated that when they buy a Toyota product they are not buying something built by God Hersef.

I was using the article to point out that no automaker is immune to recalls...their are plenty of positive pieces about GM out there, I notice noone here picks up on those either...I'm not sure how you'd spin a recall piece as anything but negative anyway.

Regardless, if you'd made it your 'mission in life' to do anything, I have no interest in dissuading you, however, there are many posters here that perpetually spout half-truths and misleading info that are presented as fact. If Evok, myself and others disagree with those 'facts', we're the bad guys...I get it.

As far as highjacking this thread, I understood the humor attempted, I just feel like the prevailing attitude amongst the diehards here is more about rooting for others' failure than trumpeting GM's successes...and that, IMO, is sad and not in the spirit of the site....if you'd like to lift yourself and your biz up by disparaging others, that's your call..Sales 101 regards that as amatuer, unimaginative and ineffective....but, hey, what do I know, I just manage a conglomerate of auto franchises of all stripes....

[Mr.Krinkle]

thanks for weighing in with the "admin power" dealy

for the record, i never really thought they were the same little e and big e but i wanted him to see how ridiculous thats sounds. nothing i said was directed towards him but he had to chime in on little e's behalf. i dont appreciate blatant character assassination attempts. its not the first time i got condescending dismissals. im here to talk about cars and read other peoples takes on unique topics but not to be judged by prof. evok. and get bitter backlash when someone doesnt share the same views.

[Mr.Krinkle]

just feel like the prevailing attitude amongst the diehards here is more about rooting for others' failure than trumpeting GM's successes...and that, IMO, is sad and not in the spirit of the site....if you'd like to lift yourself and your biz up by disparaging others, that's your call..Sales 101 regards that as amatuer, unimaginative and ineffective....but, hey, what do I know, I just manage a conglomerate of auto franchises of all stripes....

i understand that sentiment and i agree.

its not a triumph when theres a recall for a rival and is certainly nothing to celebrate.

i never understood that logic.

edit to add: even though with more and more recalls and consumer awareness about these eventualities it has to take a toll on the image. more so when people specifically shop for a brand that has the reputation, deserved or not, that their cars are defect free. that is their biggest selling point, im almost positive about that so unless its kept in check it wont always be that way.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Mr.Krinkle]

No but enzl is a great addition to the board and the CG community.  He brings rational, intelligent thoughts and experience to CG. enzl has an excellent grap of the problems GM faces in the market as well as can support his thoughts not only with experience in automotive but with industry data.

It is one thing to have an opinion and completely another to have an educated opinion.  For that reason, I can agree with many of enzl's educated thoughts and I opion that enzl has brought the level of thought to CG up a notch.

that was very transparent and there was no need to answer that. it was already put to rest.

no one ever said he wasnt. its a big sand box grow up already.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[tama z71]

It warms my heart to see three pages of response to one of my write-ups, but I'd appreciate you fellas not getting it locked.

I spent 12 days refining a write-up for GMi some time ago, got 7 pages of response in less than a day, and had it subsequently locked due to stupid commentary, much like some of you are providing now.

I'd like very much not to see that happen again.

[Camino LS6]

Perhaps we can steer this back to the topic of the perils of being #1 in general.

I don't want to lock Tama's post.

So, let's hit rewind.

[evok]

Perhaps we can steer this back to the topic of the perils of being #1 in general.

I don't want to lock Tama's post.

So, let's hit rewind.

Just delete this thread and repost Tama's article with only appropriate posts.

[tama z71]

Just delete this thread and repost Tama's article with only appropriate posts.

Nah... even if got out of hand for a little while, I'd rather it look like a popular thread. People are more likely to check out a read with 35 responses, not 0. It can be a good discussion.

[bowtie_dude]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Mr.Krinkle]

nice way to kill your own thread.

[tama z71]

nice way to kill your own thread.

Do you tend to ruin a lot of threads?

[Mr.Krinkle]

oh, good you removed your little comment about i and e before c or some nonsense.

i dont want to speak for bowtiedude but i think he was alluding to revisionist theory. if the mods cut and post whatever comments they fell like its not really a discussion anymore. it leads to censorship and goes downhill from there, hence the corruption.

sort of like you did by deleting your post.

and to answer your question: i thought it kind of fizzled after you said what you now deleted. no, i dont think so.