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Glorious victory: How the Camaro takes it to Bavaria's finest


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Been saying it for a while.. BMW lost it. The fact that U have Chevys.. let alone Cadillacs now beating BMW in a genre it created also tells U exactly who BMW is targeting with this Bavarian Bull$h!... and it ain't the cool kids or the enthusiasts. I will also throw this on the M5 and M6. After driving both.. I came away feeling completely unsatisfied and as if nothing was special about either. 

 

I will say that the LF4 in the ATSV vs the LT1 in the Camaro is a matter of preference. I still believe that Cadillac should have anything above 450HP sporting an LT series engine.. anything under that HP number should have a tunable TT from 2.0L to 3.6L.. these being base to VSports. 

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WOW, Very interesting comparison.

 

M4

 

425HP / 406 lb-ft

 6sp manual

110.7 Wheelbase

3512lbs

Cost $81,045

 

Camaro

 

455hp / 455 lb-ft

6sp manual

110.7 Wheelbase

3696lbs

Cost $46,095

 

WOW, not purfect but the Camaro clearly cleans up.

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WOW, Listen to them just rip apart the nickel and dime BS of BMW that comes standard on the Camaro! BMW has finally really failed!

 

Love the Knock about Overhead dual cams. As many of us have stated, the small block V8 still rules over turbo!

 

Hats off to Chevy, Camaro is a superior sports car.

 

Gotta love their quotes.

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BMW is between a rock and a hard place. 

With new regulations it has limited their ability to do many things anymore and have had to go conservative. 

Now GM also has shown how they can really do a car right and refined with the proper funding for once. The days of just slapping stiffer springs, larger bars and bigger tires are over. This has put the BMW like performance in cars much cheaper than their own. 

Now few will cross shop these cars but it will spur interest in some and a really cool David and Goliath story. 

 

GM and the Camaro will carve out their own place in the market. The first thing they need to do is try to stop the Pony car label from being applied as they are truly a world class GT car that is still affordable. 

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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

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As much as I want to celebrate and dance with glee....

(OK...let me show some level of joyous enthusiasm)

 

giphy.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But....unfortunately...butterface.

18ff361420f3e3fb9a6670f9de567760529a93fb

 

 

 

Well...Ill admit...Id take the Camaro out for a spin...umm....maybe not!!!! :yuck:

EpicButterface.png

Edited by oldshurst442
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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

 

 

Much of the engine play is because of the emissions laws in various markets. Some also due to engine size taxes too. 

As for Chassis tuning it was just a choice as so many BMW owners are getting older maybe they expect a smoother ride? That one you can choose. 

As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

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Only thing I would say RE the Camaro is it could be an inch to 1.5-in lower.

 

I'm a big block guy, but man! that SB sounds awesome!

Yeah, the SBC does sound awesome.

 

And Im being too harsh on the Camaro's looks myself.

It really is an attractive car on the Alpha Platform.

It does look better than the BMW M4.

Ive grown more tired of the BMW M4 faster than I have with the Camaro's looks.

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Only thing I would say RE the Camaro is it could be an inch to 1.5-in lower.

 

I'm a big block guy, but man! that SB sounds awesome!

Maaaan I noticed that too! I actually took a couple of screen shots when they were doing the donuts and it looked like that front end was a foot off the ground. I'll try and post it Monday when I can add pictures(can't from my phone)
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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

 

 

Much of the engine play is because of the emissions laws in various markets. Some also due to engine size taxes too. 

As for Chassis tuning it was just a choice as so many BMW owners are getting older maybe they expect a smoother ride? That one you can choose. 

As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

 

Audi has made good interiors for years, Mercedes currently does also.  And Mercedes put a V8 in the C-class, they have to follow the same rules as BMW.   BMW gave up on what made the 90s and early 2000s M3 and M5 so good.  They better find their secret sauce again.  Luckily for them, they have a loyal following.

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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

 

 

Much of the engine play is because of the emissions laws in various markets. Some also due to engine size taxes too. 

As for Chassis tuning it was just a choice as so many BMW owners are getting older maybe they expect a smoother ride? That one you can choose. 

As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

 

Audi has made good interiors for years, Mercedes currently does also.  And Mercedes put a V8 in the C-class, they have to follow the same rules as BMW.   BMW gave up on what made the 90s and early 2000s M3 and M5 so good.  They better find their secret sauce again.  Luckily for them, they have a loyal following.

 

 

The Germans on a whole make dark, drab looking uninspired interiors as a whole. Even in the top quality models they are dull. 

 

In the more base models they are down right cheap. I have two examples of 944 Seats in my garage now that show how cheesy they can be. 

 

As for Benz did they put a BMW V8 in their car and is that same car the same one BMW sends to other markets where Benz may offer different engines. Dude you really need to look at all the details not just the superficial ones. 

 

It is not so much a loyal following but the fact their image still sells. People like to say I own a Beemer and their friends are too stupid to know that really does not hold as much meaning anymore. 

 

Note too When I say crap interiors I do not question the Benz quality but I do question the look and styling. Hence the dull, drab and dark. The lighter colors are rare. Note I hate most Chevy interiors for the same thing. 

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BMW styling is beyond tired. Same thing, minority tweaked, over & over & over & over again. Bo Ring.

 

 

It is tired but the last time they tired to fix it we got the Bangle look with the big butt and  Dame Edna front. It made it where they were better off with tired styling. 

 

I think BMW is to a point time has moved on and they can not find that formula to move forward. They are afraid to do too much different but yet the conservative moves are leaving them behind. That is why cars like a Camaro are as much fun to drive now. If they can find the image thing BMW is in real trouble. 

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BMW styling is beyond tired. Same thing, minority tweaked, over & over & over & over again. Bo Ring.

Same old thing, like the Camaro, Corvette and Mustang.  Yet those are considered America's best.

 

Could you have made a more ignorant post?

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Yes, these are so dark, drab and monotone.  Any car with black on black interior is monotone, so don't pick all black, they offer other colors.

 

2012_audi_a6_16.jpg

 

 

001-2017-mercedes-e-class-interior-1.jpg

 

audi-a8-2014-interior-wallpaper-3.jpg

 

7seriessedan.overview.interior.jpg

This one is really dark...

2016-bmw-7-series-interior-images-1900x1

And, once again, you are not paying attention. He mentioned that they offered the lighter colors but the majority out there are of the black and drab variety. He never said, not once, that they ONLY offered the dark and drab. Go ahead and deny that if you want, but me personally, I have rarely seen any of those colors you have shown here out in the wild. Clearly, most MB buyers (and BMW buyers as well), prefer dark and drab looking. 

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Well that is like saying most cars are silver and beige, and it is boring. If a company offers 10 colors and 50% of the consumers pick gray/silver, then it isn't the companies fault that more people don't buy red or yellow.

Good grief. Not the point SMK. THe point is that you were not paying attention to what he actually said and had to go out of your way to show some pretty pictures that probably account for less than 10% of the S Class sales out there.

And yes I down voted you for it and stated why.

Also, I swore this was about the Camaro spanking a BMW, not how many colors and completely unrelated car has.

What is funny here is that SMK could only point out their most expensive car as having a "variety of colors". There's a reason for that I'm sure.

Edited by surreal1272
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As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

 

 

The Germans on a whole make dark, drab looking uninspired interiors as a whole. Even in the top quality models they are dull. 

 

 

 

 "on a whole"  "even in top quality models"

 

The 3-series interior is a bit lackluster, but mainly because A4 and C-class stepped their game up.  You can get an M3/M4 in 9 different leather colors including Nutmeg, Red, Silver, White, Beige, Black, Golden Brown, Cohiba Brown, and Amaro Brown.  Maybe most BMW buyers like black, and that is what they buy.  I hate all black interiors personally.  But BMW does offer a long color list on the M4.  I give them credit for that.

 

I still think the M4 is over priced, gotten a bit too big, and doesn't have an engine different enough from the 340i, which makes it seem even more over priced.  I don't necessarily want more performance from the M4, but it shouldn't be $81k with options left on the table.  The previous car was loved and cost about $65k, these new M cars seem like the used the Porsche pricing system and they don't feel as special as the old ones.  And it isn't because they have more M models, it is because the M3 and M5 are big, heavy, lack steering feel, they lost that essence of driving, where it is all about exhaust note, and steering and suspension.  The new cars seem to fake all that.

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You take the average German car model and it is flat Drab. The fact is in ever photo you posted is a car that is very high end and very limited. 

If you go to a dealer lot 98% of them have no large screens, hey have no lighter colors and and most are not the top trim either. 

As it is well know German cars like Tesla low ball a figure on their cars and by the time you get to the stuff that is on top you can spend $25K-30K more. Yes Cadillac is starting to do this now too. It is just part of the segment. 
 

My point is not that they don't offer it at all but the fact that it is not a common thing to find the best interiors in just any German car, 

 

But you did point out how badly they really need to work on their wood trim. I was in a Benz last month and it had the black wood trim. God it may have been good material but it looked so JC Whitney. 

 

I do like the Quilted leather like above and as seen in Bentley's but there again only rarely is it found in the top trim level rarely seen. 

 

I also will be honest many companies are guilty of the dull like Chevy as I pointed out. But then again I am not paying Six Figures to get a nice interior. There are some changes I would like to see in some Cadillac's too but at least even the lower end cars shill have a better contrast to them. 

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The first two pictures are A6 and E-class, so that isn't a top trim $100k car.

The M4 interior is still way better than a Camaro's. But if you are just buying for performance, the M4 interior isn't $35,000 better than a Camaro.

The Camaro has really good performance, the numbers back it up. M4 isn't a bad car, it just seems over priced to me because it is $30k more than a 340i and for what?

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The first two pictures are A6 and E-class, so that isn't a top trim $100k car.

The M4 interior is still way better than a Camaro's. But if you are just buying for performance, the M4 interior isn't $35,000 better than a Camaro.

The Camaro has really good performance, the numbers back it up. M4 isn't a bad car, it just seems over priced to me because it is $30k more than a 340i and for what?

 

They are still the most expensive versions of that model and still not cheap or average. The Audi is a little closer to average. They do have the better interiors in the less expensive cars but still noting special over Cadillac that still needs some tweaks. 

 

On a visual level the M4 is dull. Bla.  As for better than a Camaro interior I would hope so but it is not that much better. That is the only true statement you have made. 

 

As for price if they can get it God Bless em. Much of what they do anymore is all based on image public perception. It is like Toyota and Honda anymore as they are not the best in the Camry and Accord segment anymore but yet people buy them because of public perception. 

FYI that E class dash is just horrible. Kinda has that Korean look about it that even the Korean cars dumped. 

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Anyways, I'm too lazy to rotate the pics, so let me lay it down: the above sticker for the Camaro is 60 grand Canadian. It includes a sunroof that you can easily delete, plus it has the upsized brakes and six-speed stick.

The Shelby, minus the sunroof, rings in at 75 grand. And I'm not even 100% sure if that includes and Track Pack stuff.

The Camaro is, simply put, a superb car. Very little can go up against it and not look foolish, either from a performance or price perspective.

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This is a Camaro vs M4 thread, Bong. Nice Chevy being cheaper than a GT350 plug though, classic. 

 

 

 

Anybody else think after this comparison what the V6 or I4 would do to the 340i and 328i? I'd like to see those compared as well, ya know, just for $h!s. Especially the V6 and 340i. I wonder if the M4 would have stood a chance had the SS gotten the 1LE package. 

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This is a Camaro vs M4 thread, Bong. Nice Chevy being cheaper than a GT350 plug though, classic. 

 

 

 

Anybody else think after this comparison what the V6 or I4 would do to the 340i and 328i? I'd like to see those compared as well, ya know, just for $h!s. Especially the V6 and 340i. I wonder if the M4 would have stood a chance had the SS gotten the 1LE package. 

Yet you say nothing about another posters constant mentions of Mercedes even though this is NOT Mercedes either. 

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"As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied." That was said by Hyper and it went from there. It was an evolving process about interiors unlike nobody mentioning Ford vs Chevy until very abruptly, out of nowhere. Very different. 

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This is a Camaro vs M4 thread, Bong. Nice Chevy being cheaper than a GT350 plug though, classic.

Anybody else think after this comparison what the V6 or I4 would do to the 340i and 328i? I'd like to see those compared as well, ya know, just for $h!s. Especially the V6 and 340i. I wonder if the M4 would have stood a chance had the SS gotten the 1LE package.

Yet you say nothing about another posters constant mentions of Mercedes even though this is NOT Mercedes either.

No, no. He's correct. They even say straight-up in the vid that the Camaro has advanced beyond being compared to the Mustang.

Accuracy in posting is a good thing. I'm glad he pointed it out.

Edited by El Kabong
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"As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied." That was said by Hyper and it went from there. It was an evolving process about interiors unlike nobody mentioning Ford vs Chevy until very abruptly, out of nowhere. Very different. 

Not exactly helping your argument ccap. The Camaro and Mustang are direct competitors and the Mustang was referenced in that article. Just saying. 

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"As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied." That was said by Hyper and it went from there. It was an evolving process about interiors unlike nobody mentioning Ford vs Chevy until very abruptly, out of nowhere. Very different. 

Not exactly helping your argument ccap. The Camaro and Mustang are direct competitors and the Mustang was referenced in that article. Just saying. 

 

Doesn't make his comment any less out of left field, for the sake of a Camaro plug(over mustang). Ya know, like he dooooooeeeessssss!

 

Oops, my bad.

 

:bowdown:  :gm_logo:

 

Mucho mejor.  :cheering:

 

Jeez these littler emoji-like things are the best! 

Edited by ccap41
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