FordCosworth

+19HP /+34 Torque on 2.7 models and +23 HP /+34 Torque on 3.5L models

22 posts in this topic

K&N recently released a new air intake for 2015-2016 FORD F150 Ecoboost with 2.7L and 3.5L motors. Ecoboost engine is very capable so the engineers achieved really impressive performance results of +19HP and +34 Torque on 2.7 models and +23 HP and +34 Torque on 3.5L models. 
 
k-n-15-16-f150.jpg

k-n-15-16-f150-1.jpg

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found one of these for my Escape 2.0 and it claims 19hp and 22tq and it's just hard to believe they can achieve that w/o a tune. I thought modern computers work hard to maintain the original a/f ratio and whatnot to keep it running "the way it's supposed to".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I LOVE K&N  :heart:

 

I have used their air intake on all my auto's and they have always delivered great results for engines.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These numbers may be possible with a K&N, CAI, and a chip..... but without the chip, you're just wasting money because the computer will learn itself back down to its programmed air/fuel ratios.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

True but also keep in mind that most people who do see these gains have it on older auto's  or well worn ones so this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I will say that I never stuck a K&N system onto an auto till after the warranty was over. With that said, I hope that these new systems truly do help increase performance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Heck, just a tune on a modern turbo car can net you some very solid gains. You'll likely need an intercooler soon after as most OEM's are barely sufficient for stock duty if pushed hard. 

 

Intakes on turbo cars only help as much as their exhaust and tune will allow them. A lot of factory exhaust are quite restrictive from the turbo all the way back and a simple exhaust, intake, and tune will be able all the bang you can get without spending serious money. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

I actually just emailed a K&N rep last week asking about the gains on my Escape(because if 19/22 was correct, that's awesome). I also asked why the Escape and Focus ST were so diferent on their dyno gains. Escape: 19hp 22tq ST: 7hp 7tq  when they are basically the same engine. 

 

This was the email in return:

"They both have the same motor, but like you mentioned the tune is going to be slightly different from one to the other. Also the factory intakes are different and from the looks of it the Escapes is more restrictive

 

I hope this helps, if you have any other questions please feel free to contact me."

 

Basically, nothing in return. 

 

This was my email to them:

"I’m not really sure if this answer will be able to be answered here or if you could possibly forward to somebody who may be able to but I’m looking at the above intake for my 2013 Escape with the 2.0T engine and this is the same intake that can be used on the Focus ST and they both use the same 2.0T engine just slightly different tunes from the factory but why or how can the Escape have such large gains(19hp 22tq) and the Focus ST one gains 7hp and 7tq? Or what is the difference in the intake that would be such a drastic difference in performance gains? "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

 

 

So youre saying K&N is lying and falsely advertising?

 

Can you post anything that show these figures for the 2.7L EB and 3.5L EB are not correct?

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

 

 

So youre saying K&N is lying and falsely advertising?

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't be the first time.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

 

 

So youre saying K&N is lying and falsely advertising?

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

 

 

Doesn't mean anything now, does it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

 

 

So youre saying K&N is lying and falsely advertising?

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. There is no "cold air intake" for any new car that increases torque by 10%. The claim is preposterous and I revoke anyone's enthusiast card who believes it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

 

 

So youre saying K&N is lying and falsely advertising?

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

 

 

Doesn't mean anything now, does it?

 

As long as they put the little "Results will vary" it completely covers their back side because...nobody will simply change their intake on a 2015+ turbo car and magically gain ridiculous amounts of power. 

 

I'll try and find something showing you that OEM cars computer always tried to adjust back to X Y and Z parameters regardless of the intake or exhaust on it. That is why a tune is so important these days. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look... a K&N filter swap, on it's own, will not increase power dramatically in a modern computer controlled car....  All of the other things mentioned, a CAI, a chip, a less restrictive exhaust, along with a K&N filter will give you some gains, but most of it will be coming from the chip with the rest of the modifications helping the chip to do its job better.   K&Ns filters simply do not flow that much better than a paper filter to give a 10% boost in torque.

 

K&N's argument is that they maintain air flow longer than a paper filter.... and it is true... but they also do a worse job of filtering dust from your intake.  If you're that worried about airflow but not going to install a chip, change your filter twice as often and save the $60 - $75 K&N wants for one of their units. 

 

The chip is the key here. Even with the minor air flow increases a K&N might get you, with a stock chip the computer will learn this and make adjustments to timing, fuel flow, turbo-waste-gate, etc, and dial you back down to the factory spec output.... period.... On these turbo cars, airflow is largely dictated by the turbos, not the air filter.   If you put an extra turbo on the car and don't "tell the computer", you're going to have all sorts of problems because it will have unexpected inputs and start trying to adjust for them.   This is why you can drive a car from sea-level to 14,000 feet and not have it stall out on you. 

 

Even my 35 year old Oldsmobile has an airflow sensor, manifold pressure sensor, and atmospheric pressure sensor that the computer uses to adjust the fuel flow in the carburetor...  Adding a K&N on my car with 255 lb-ft of torque is not going to jump me to 280 lb-ft... no matter what K&N claims. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with accepting these Dyno results on cars that have their ECMs adjusted... but the filter alone isn't going to do it. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So.. they're both Cold Air Intake kits... the Camaro and the Fords, so in both cases, they're doing more than just the filter.   However, my point about the filter stands. In each case, they are taking out the stock filter box and replacing it with one that is wide open. I think its highly likely that the CAI is doing most of the lifting here and you could put a paper cone in the place of the K&N filter and see the same results. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Cold Air Intake" is such a misnomer. The vast majority of cars have cold air induction from factory superior to a K&N kit.

 

Case in point: one of the most recent anti-K&N threads on HPTuners is a Malibu 2.5L (N/A motor) with a K&N intake kit very similar in design to the Escape 2.0T that ccap referenced. Intake air temps skyrocketed around 40° hotter than stock. Why? Because the half assed heat shield design was completely ineffective at insulating the cone filter from 150° engine bay air, whereas the stock airbox was sealed and pulling air fed from the front grille.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Cold Air Intake" is such a misnomer. The vast majority of cars have cold air induction from factory superior to a K&N kit.

 

Case in point: one of the most recent anti-K&N threads on HPTuners is a Malibu 2.5L (N/A motor) with a K&N intake kit very similar in design to the Escape 2.0T that ccap referenced. Intake air temps skyrocketed around 40° hotter than stock. Why? Because the half assed heat shield design was completely ineffective at insulating the cone filter from 150° engine bay air, whereas the stock airbox was sealed and pulling air fed from the front grille.

.... and then when you put it on a dyno with the hood open and a fan blowing on the front for cooling..... 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HA!

 

This takes me back in the day....early 1990s..

When all my idiot friends were high on 4 cylinder power...

A couple of guys had Corrado VR6s...

One dude had a 1st gen  Eagle Talon AWD tsi

Another, my cousin, an Acura Integra coupe...

Another a 4 door Acura Integra

An Asuna Sunfire, (the Isuzu Impulse sold at Pontiac dealerships) made it to our gang,

and other mega fueled 4 bangers...

 

And all I remember some of the talk would be: (in a Greek Montrealer Jersey Shore type accent)

"Hey Bro, I got a K&N Filter Bro!"

 

 

This would kinda be the end result:

l_12b33fd9dfd64002b19a8f4537a65759.jpg

 

 

SHEESH....Mr. FordCosworth, I thought you was better than my old Greek ricer friends....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I call BS. I don't believe those gains for a f@#king second. K&N is perfectly happy fabricating dyno charts, I've seen threads on the HPTuners forum where a genuine K&N intake was installed and the car got thrown all out of whack losing power and pulling timing.

 

Also, ccap is right, all the modern turbo engines I'm familiar with use a control system where the engine makes the commanded power with variable turbo speeds. You're not making sh!t without a tune unless there is a severe bottle neck, which simply isn't the case from factory.

 

 

So youre saying K&N is lying and falsely advertising?

 

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

 

Doesn't mean anything now, does it?

Actually... it totally does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's like stripe kits-they add 20mph.

To be fair, adding those kind of things to your vehicle does help give it a more personal feel. But tuning, especially on modern engines, has to be a holistic kind of thing-you need to make the air pump that the engine is breathe more efficiently, add the required fuel at the right time in the right quantities, and ensure the whole thing holds together. Honker intakes and fart cans will not really help if your stock engine needs more grunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.