MT Calls Out "Insular, Paranoid" Ford PR

[surreal1272]

Seems kind of silly to blame MT for the fact that Ford won't give them a real test car.

It is. And it's childish of Ford to not do it.

Playing Devils Advocate, but if you were a company and you felt that some specific media / news outlets were being a bit heavy handed about some brands and a free pass to others and you felt you might not get a fair shake would you not also decide to ignore or decline those companies that you perceive to not be fair?

 

I admit it is hard for humans period to be impartial and non-judgemental, but I think most of us find Consumer Reports to be very Asian Biased in comparison to American auto's. Why is this and is it due to what the American companies have done or some other reason?

 

Point being, I agree with you and others that Ford seems to be taking a low road to pettiness. I think if you believe in your product you will stand up for it no matter how the review is and use said reviews to make your products better.

 

With that said, I do not blame a company from not wanting to waste resources on a bias comparison that will not be at least equal if not gain something from it.

That's the thing though. There is no evidence of said bias and given that Ford is doing this to more than one publication, it seems to contradict any bias claims unless they are paranoid enough to believe that all concerned are biased.

[David]

 

 

 

Seems kind of silly to blame MT for the fact that Ford won't give them a real test car.

It is. And it's childish of Ford to not do it.

Playing Devils Advocate, but if you were a company and you felt that some specific media / news outlets were being a bit heavy handed about some brands and a free pass to others and you felt you might not get a fair shake would you not also decide to ignore or decline those companies that you perceive to not be fair?

 

I admit it is hard for humans period to be impartial and non-judgemental, but I think most of us find Consumer Reports to be very Asian Biased in comparison to American auto's. Why is this and is it due to what the American companies have done or some other reason?

 

Point being, I agree with you and others that Ford seems to be taking a low road to pettiness. I think if you believe in your product you will stand up for it no matter how the review is and use said reviews to make your products better.

 

With that said, I do not blame a company from not wanting to waste resources on a bias comparison that will not be at least equal if not gain something from it.

That's the thing though. There is no evidence of said bias and given that Ford is doing this to more than one publication, it seems to contradict any bias claims unless they are paranoid enough to believe that all concerned are biased.

 

And that Surreal is why I am playing Devils Advocate!

 

Is this just Ford being Paranoid or is there a bigger issue with the magazines. We have all hear Drew talk about these auto mags feeling what I would call ENTITLED! This makes one wonder...........

[surreal1272]

Seems kind of silly to blame MT for the fact that Ford won't give them a real test car.

It is. And it's childish of Ford to not do it.

Playing Devils Advocate, but if you were a company and you felt that some specific media / news outlets were being a bit heavy handed about some brands and a free pass to others and you felt you might not get a fair shake would you not also decide to ignore or decline those companies that you perceive to not be fair?

 

I admit it is hard for humans period to be impartial and non-judgemental, but I think most of us find Consumer Reports to be very Asian Biased in comparison to American auto's. Why is this and is it due to what the American companies have done or some other reason?

 

Point being, I agree with you and others that Ford seems to be taking a low road to pettiness. I think if you believe in your product you will stand up for it no matter how the review is and use said reviews to make your products better.

 

With that said, I do not blame a company from not wanting to waste resources on a bias comparison that will not be at least equal if not gain something from it.

That's the thing though. There is no evidence of said bias and given that Ford is doing this to more than one publication, it seems to contradict any bias claims unless they are paranoid enough to believe that all concerned are biased.

And that Surreal is why I am playing Devils Advocate!

 

Is this just Ford being Paranoid or is there a bigger issue with the magazines. We have all hear Drew talk about these auto mags feeling what I would call ENTITLED! This makes one wonder...........

Oh I see what you're saying and I can see it in some cases. I just don't think there is a solid case for it in Fords case though.

[oldshurst442]

If a company DOES NOT WANT TO DO IT...then a COMPANY DOES NOT HAVE TO DO IT!!!

 

Who the phoque are you (EL K) or Motor Trend or anybody else to dictate how a company wants to do business when you (EL K) or Motor Trend or anybody else is NOT on the motherphoking payroll?

 

There are board meetings for this I gather, and it has been voted upon with the shareholders that hold that type of power and privilege..

 

Ford is still a  quasi family business and the Ford family does not want to give out any press cars....

Yes like Ferrari.

 

A journalist was banned by Ferrari when he did like Motor Trend did.

Yes Ferrari preps their cars....

 

Its an image thing.

They want to protect this image thing.

 

Its their right to do so...

Its a journalists job to get the facts straight...

 

ITS NOT A JOURNALISTS JOB to THREATEN.....

 

DREW already explained what journalists should be doing....

 

Us consumers....

What should we do?

 

Well, we shouldnt be holding ANY journalistic point of view to its highest regards....

There is BIAS!

Hidden agendas....

 

What a consumer should do is SEE for HIMSELF!

 

El Kabong....

You prolly NEVER drove the Mustang GT350 or GT350R for yourself to have a strong opinion like you do!

 

Your words are just some dumb ass automotive journalist' words that was paid to review whatever his review was all about the way it was reviewed!

HIDDEN AGENDAS.

 

Im afraid that integrity in journalism for the most part is long gone!

And if it aint, it dont matter, a difference of opinion means that is how one journalist views things, maybe YOU as a consumer will view it differently!

 

Ive got many examples to give:

 

Take THIS argument:

 We have MY point of view and we have YOURS...

 

We are BOTH right.

Two sides of the SAME coin!

 

If YOU dont want to see it that way and only want to see it YOUR way and want to push YOUR way only...that is what is called a hidden agenda!

 

I am flexible!

YOU are not El Kabong!

 

YOU even painted me as a Ford Fanboy you are sooooo desperate to discredit me!

 

There is no bias in journalism, especially in automotive journalism?

Sure you mention it yourself...but YOU cherry pick.....

 

YOU have cried fowl on how the media treats GM unfairly.

YOU have cried fowl how TESLA gets free passes.

YOU have cried fowl how the Vettes were forced to be muzzled and how Ferrari and Ford got free willy passes to ultimately win at Lemans.

All in a span of a month or 2.

 

And here we are where YOU are crying fowl how I paint the media with the same brush and YOU are saying that Ford is salty and childish....

 

If Ford gets a free pass to win at Lemans, then I dont see how Ford gets to be salty at anything...

If GM produces the goods like you say they do, then why did they lose at Lemans?

 

YOUR views on things are slightly off kilter!

 

No logic to them.

 

And THAT is a tell tale sign of a....TROLL!

 

My argument here has NEVER strayed.....

My love for the Camaro's looks are the problem, not with its performance....yet YOU take an offense to that too!

Yet I dont provoke it....I only provoke it when YOU troll Ford!

And then you become very defensive about that!

 

El Kabong....you got some serious CHILDISH issues you need to fix before YOU start calling a BILLION DOLLAR multi-national corporation childish for imposing a policy that they deem is necessary for some reason!

Edited July 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

Edited July 21, 2016 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

 

 

So you've already declared victory from a figure 8 test

[oldshurst442]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

Dude....we've already mentioned why the GT350 costs as much as it does...

 

The LT1 engine has Vette sales and truck sales to offset the price tag....

The Voodoo is a one-off special edition engine...

 

QUIT the BS about price tags...

The GT350's sound alone is worth the price of admission.

 

Ive said this before...

magazine performance numbers are only good for arm chair racers much like your self....

Have YOU raced a GT350 and a Camaro SS or 1LE to concur your obvious strong opinion that you hold?

Prolly not!

 

You hold MT on a high pedestal yet denounce Car and Driver's findings for the GT350 cherry picking...

 

What are MT's motives for calling out Ford for a Focus RS?

They did not get their freebies from Ford?

Then they threaten...

 

You havent yet given a valid reason....only to point the finger at Ford...

THAT is very silly and foolish of you...

Edited July 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

 

 

So you've already declared victory from a figure 8 test

Why not? Ford fans had no problem with the Eco boost Stang victory a few weeks ago in which it beat the Camaro in the figure eight but not in straight line speed. Btw, I'm not calling it victory. Just offering a different perspective.

[Frisky Dingo]

I can't wait for us to get our first 1LE. Might change my stance on the car.

[surreal1272]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

Dude....we've already mentioned why the GT350 costs as much as it does...

 

The LT1 engine has Vette sales and truck sales to offset the price tag....

The Voodoo is a one-off special edition engine...

 

QUIT the BS about price tags...

The GT350's sound alone is worth the price of admission.

 

Ive said this before...

magazine performance numbers are only good for arm chair racers much like your self....

Have YOU raced a GT350 and a Camaro SS or 1LE to concur your obvious strong opinion that you hold?

Prolly not!

 

You hold MT on a high pedestal yet denounce Car and Driver's findings for the GT350 cherry picking...

 

What are MT's motives for calling out Ford for a Focus RS?

They did not get their freebies from Ford?

Then they threaten...

 

You havent yet given a valid reason....only to point the finger at Ford...

THAT is very silly and foolish of you...

Sorry but a sweet engine not does not justify a high price on any car especially if that's the only reason to do so.

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

Dude....we've already mentioned why the GT350 costs as much as it does...

 

The LT1 engine has Vette sales and truck sales to offset the price tag....

The Voodoo is a one-off special edition engine...

 

QUIT the BS about price tags...

The GT350's sound alone is worth the price of admission.

 

Ive said this before...

magazine performance numbers are only good for arm chair racers much like your self....

Have YOU raced a GT350 and a Camaro SS or 1LE to concur your obvious strong opinion that you hold?

Prolly not!

 

You hold MT on a high pedestal yet denounce Car and Driver's findings for the GT350 cherry picking...

 

What are MT's motives for calling out Ford for a Focus RS?

They did not get their freebies from Ford?

Then they threaten...

 

You havent yet given a valid reason....only to point the finger at Ford...

THAT is very silly and foolish of you...

Sorry but a sweet engine not does not justify a high price on any car especially if that's the only reason to do so.

 

 

Hold up, full stop.

 

The Camaro Z/28 was criticized constantly for the high price tag, which was due to the $16,000 hand built LS7 and $8,000 carbon ceramic brakes. Either an exotic, rare engine justifies higher cost or it doesn't but lets keep consistency here.

 

Also, Olds, you mentioned earlier that Ford has all the right to withhold its vehicles, and that's true. But not to the benefit of shareholders. As Motor Trend stated: next time they'll take whatever Hertz has on the lot. Who stands to lose out when a rental-grade, abused Ford gets compared to shiny, prepped examples from other brands?

[surreal1272]

Well said CP.

[FordCosworth]

 

 

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

 

 

So you've already declared victory from a figure 8 test

Why not? Ford fans had no problem with the Eco boost Stang victory a few weeks ago in which it beat the Camaro in the figure eight but not in straight line speed. Btw, I'm not calling it victory. Just offering a different perspective.

 

 

 

I just went a read that M/T write up and those Ford Fans were attacked left, right and centre for that - and I might add a few of those attack trolls frequent here too. 

[surreal1272]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

So you've already declared victory from a figure 8 test

Why not? Ford fans had no problem with the Eco boost Stang victory a few weeks ago in which it beat the Camaro in the figure eight but not in straight line speed. Btw, I'm not calling it victory. Just offering a different perspective.

I just went a read that M/T write up and those Ford Fans were attacked left, right and centre for that - and I might add a few of those attack trolls frequent here too.

100% not the point and you know that.

Guess you also skimmed over the fact that most of those Ford fans caught hell because they were going on nonstop about cheap gas in the Stang when that was never the case. Also skimmed over is the fact there is at least one Ford fan here who went just as nutty on the SS long term arrival You cannot deny that simple fact but again that is not the point here. My point has been clearly made.

Edited July 21, 2016 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

 

 

 

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

Dude....we've already mentioned why the GT350 costs as much as it does...

 

The LT1 engine has Vette sales and truck sales to offset the price tag....

The Voodoo is a one-off special edition engine...

 

QUIT the BS about price tags...

The GT350's sound alone is worth the price of admission.

 

Ive said this before...

magazine performance numbers are only good for arm chair racers much like your self....

Have YOU raced a GT350 and a Camaro SS or 1LE to concur your obvious strong opinion that you hold?

Prolly not!

 

You hold MT on a high pedestal yet denounce Car and Driver's findings for the GT350 cherry picking...

 

What are MT's motives for calling out Ford for a Focus RS?

They did not get their freebies from Ford?

Then they threaten...

 

You havent yet given a valid reason....only to point the finger at Ford...

THAT is very silly and foolish of you...

Sorry but a sweet engine not does not justify a high price on any car especially if that's the only reason to do so.

 

 

Hold up, full stop.

 

The Camaro Z/28 was criticized constantly for the high price tag, which was due to the $16,000 hand built LS7 and $8,000 carbon ceramic brakes. Either an exotic, rare engine justifies higher cost or it doesn't but lets keep consistency here.

 

Also, Olds, you mentioned earlier that Ford has all the right to withhold its vehicles, and that's true. But not to the benefit of shareholders. As Motor Trend stated: next time they'll take whatever Hertz has on the lot. Who stands to lose out when a rental-grade, abused Ford gets compared to shiny, prepped examples from other brands?

 

That is what I said...Motor Trend's  credibility gets shot if they do that.

 

Detriment to the shareholders...quite possible.

But what if there was a shareholder's meeting about media relations and the shareholders majority win was to with hold test vehicles for magazines.

 

Its just advertisement at the end of the day and maybe FoMoCo doesnt think its effective for them?

OK...this is where El Kabong can give his opinion regarding performance stats...

 

But...I have a feeling that no-shows from certain big guns hurt valuable advertising dollars and sales at the stands when certain companies with hold cars...

 

The Focus RS is a big gun in this comparo and it might hurt sales at the stand when Ford withholds out on a Focus because fans want to know about ALL cars in this class....

 

This bravado talk is simple in my eyes....

It seems that Ford does not need MT for Focus RS sales but MT needs Focus RS for sales at the stands...

 

That is one way to look at it...

 

PS:

 

when it comes to specialty pony cars like the Camaro Z28 or GT350, I will PERSONALLY not whine for high price tags..

 

A 1969 ZL-1 Camaro was as expensive back in the day as the today's Z28 and GT350...

Edited July 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[FordCosworth]

 

 

 

 

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

 

 

So you've already declared victory from a figure 8 test

Why not? Ford fans had no problem with the Eco boost Stang victory a few weeks ago in which it beat the Camaro in the figure eight but not in straight line speed. Btw, I'm not calling it victory. Just offering a different perspective.

 

 

I just went a read that M/T write up and those Ford Fans were attacked left, right and centre for that - and I might add a few of those attack trolls frequent here too.

100% not the point and you know that.

Guess you also skimmed over the fact that most of those Ford fans caught hell because they were going on nonstop about cheap gas in the Stang when that was never the case. You cannot deny that simple fact.

 

 

100% not the point, and you know that.

[El Kabong]

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

[surreal1272]

100% not the point, and you know that.

Really? How so? You're claiming they were attacked left and right while ignoring the reasons why so let's hear the counter instead just stating one little sentence.

Edited July 21, 2016 by surreal1272

[FordCosworth]

Right now, Motor Trend is doing their Best Drivers Car competition. All killer, no filler. One pro driver to provide the objective stuff.

It has already leaked out that the Camaro SS with the 1LE package matched the Shelby Mustang GT350 on the figure eight times.

In other words... MT has provided objective proof that Ford's top-dog ponycar is indeed checkmated by a Camaro that costs five figures less.

So, I now understand why Ford PR would be both paranoid and insular. But it is all for naught-the truth will eventually come out. In this case, the truth is that Ford is no longer able to match the performance per dollar standard of the Camaro. And it's not even close.

That's all on Ford. Blaming MT is thoroughly, utterly foolish.

That's just the way it is

 

 

So you've already declared victory from a figure 8 test

Why not? Ford fans had no problem with the Eco boost Stang victory a few weeks ago in which it beat the Camaro in the figure eight but not in straight line speed. Btw, I'm not calling it victory. Just offering a different perspective.

 

 

I just went a read that M/T write up and those Ford Fans were attacked left, right and centre for that - and I might add a few of those attack trolls frequent here too.

100% not the point and you know that.

Guess you also skimmed over the fact that most of those Ford fans caught hell because they were going on nonstop about cheap gas in the Stang when that was never the case. You cannot deny that simple fact.

 

100% not the point, and you know that.

Really? How so? You're claiming they were attacked left and right while ignoring the reasons why so let's hear the counter instead just stating one little sentence.

 

I don't feel like posting yours and EK's attackfest here.

 

Reading that crap there is enough as it is.

[surreal1272]

I don't feel like posting yours and EK's attackfest here. Reading that crap there is enough as it is.

So you'll make the claim but don't provide any real counter to what I'm saying? Well, you sure convinced me. Me thinks you need to just stop bringing your sour grapes from there to here especially when you only want to present one side of the situation. There were conspiracy theories galore from Ford fans such as yourself about about MT rigging the comparo even though they declared the Mutsang the winner. Seriously, Costco must have been wiped out of tinfoil that day. Again, you cannot deny those facts which is why you have resorted to these simple one liners.

Edited July 21, 2016 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

Anyway, I believe the subject is about Fords problem with MT.

[FordCosworth]

 

I don't feel like posting yours and EK's attackfest here. Reading that crap there is enough as it is.

So you'll make the claim but don't provide any real counter to what I'm saying? Well, you sure convinced me. Me thinks you need to just stop bringing your sour grapes from there to here especially when you only want to present one side of the situation. There were conspiracy theories galore from Ford fans such as yourself about about MT rigging the comparo even though they declared the Mutsang the winner. Seriously, Costco must have been wiped out of tinfoil that day. Again, you cannot deny those facts which is why you have resorted to these simple one liners.

 

 

Deny the facts? 

 

I don't need to counter your attack comments from M/T.

[oldshurst442]

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

Better in who's eyes?

YOURS?

 

HA!

 

You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer....

 

Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray....

Corvette....Chevy's top dog...

 

By YOUR logic

If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350

And the GT350 beats Stingray

Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray..

Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even...

GM should just cancel the Stingray.

How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it?

 

2 lowly pony cars beat it....

2 pony cars!!!

The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350

 

El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

Edited July 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

Anyway, I believe the subject is about Fords problem with MT.

To be more precise, I'd say that the problem is Ford. MT is just calling them out.

I heard a rumor that Alf is dead :D

Edited July 21, 2016 by El Kabong

[El Kabong]

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

Better in who's eyes?

YOURS?

HA!

You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer....

Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray....

Corvette....Chevy's top dog...

By YOUR logic

If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350

And the GT350 beats Stingray

Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray..

Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even...

GM should just cancel the Stingray.

How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it?

2 lowly pony cars beat it....

2 pony cars!!!

The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350

El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

Look. I already explained why the Shelby won. It was politics because Ford was trying to avoid what we're now seeing at MT.

Now go calm down. It's just getting silly, and I don't want to make any cruel comeback quips about elementary school.

Edited July 21, 2016 by El Kabong

[oldshurst442]

 

 

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

Better in who's eyes?

YOURS?

HA!

You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer....

Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray....

Corvette....Chevy's top dog...

By YOUR logic

If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350

And the GT350 beats Stingray

Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray..

Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even...

GM should just cancel the Stingray.

How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it?

2 lowly pony cars beat it....

2 pony cars!!!

The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350

El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

...and that's one of the reasons it's going out of production.

Thank you for proving my point. Now go calm down. It's just getting silly, and I don't want to make any cruel comeback quips about elementary school

 

 

And that is why the next gen Mustang is in effect right now!

A couple of years earlier.

 

Let us talk about the C8 shall we???!!!

Will it be mid-engined?

 

Duntov wanted that from the early 1960s...

 

You know what.

Ford beat Chevy to that punch 3 times...

 

1.In the mid 60s.

2.The early 2000s

3.and now...

 

So...any other "just wait and see" arguments...

EL K....GROW UP!

[FordCosworth]

 

 

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

Better in who's eyes?

YOURS?

HA!

You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer....

Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray....

Corvette....Chevy's top dog...

By YOUR logic

If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350

And the GT350 beats Stingray

Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray..

Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even...

GM should just cancel the Stingray.

How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it?

2 lowly pony cars beat it....

2 pony cars!!!

The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350

El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

Look. I already explained why the Shelby won. It was politics because Ford was trying to avoid what we're now seeing at MT.

Now go calm down. It's just getting silly, and I don't want to make any cruel comeback quips about elementary school.

 

 

C/D stated the GT350 won because of politics?

[El Kabong]

That don't do jack squat for the beatdown it's receiving today.

And let's not overlook the fact that the Camaro is quite capable of a quick turnaround as well. The Onega platform is already a thing, and there are rumours hat the C8 may see Job One as early as late '18 or January '19.

In other words, GM has the advantage, and seems uninterested in relinquishing it.

Good for GM. Bad for Ford.

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

Better in who's eyes?

YOURS?

HA!

You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer....

Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray....

Corvette....Chevy's top dog...

By YOUR logic

If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350

And the GT350 beats Stingray

Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray..

Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even...

GM should just cancel the Stingray.

How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it?

2 lowly pony cars beat it....

2 pony cars!!!

The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350

El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

Look. I already explained why the Shelby won. It was politics because Ford was trying to avoid what we're now seeing at MT.

Now go calm down. It's just getting silly, and I don't want to make any cruel comeback quips about elementary school.

 

C/D stated the GT350 won because of politics?

Well, they deliberately sidestepped comparing it to the SS, and titled the article "Asymmetrical Warfare." They may as well have called it "we tried our best but they wouldn't let us do what you want to see."

[oldshurst442]

 

Yeah..politics....

 

In one world, Ford is afraid that everybody is against them while in another, they let them win the 24 hours of Lemans!

According to El Kabong....

 

Right....Its all politics

Edited July 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[FordCosworth]

That don't do jack squat for the beatdown it's receiving today.

And let's not overlook the fact that the Camaro is quite capable of a quick turnaround as well. The Onega platform is already a thing, and there are rumours hat the C8 may see Job One as early as late '18 or January '19.

In other words, GM has the advantage, and seems uninterested in relinquishing it.

Good for GM. Bad for Ford.

 

 

 

Quit yer whining. You deserved all you got over there :D

But on a serious note... there is ZERO excuse for a ponycar that costs five figures more (largely due to a model-specific engine and frond end!) than an SS getting checkmated by said SS.

Ford PR, and Ford fans, and Ford trolls, need to wake up. Their company needs to do better-end of discussion.

Better in who's eyes?

YOURS?

HA!

You are nothing but a arm chair bench racer....

Car and Driver gave that victory to the GT350 over a Stingray....

Corvette....Chevy's top dog...

By YOUR logic

If Camaro 1LE or SS (who cares?) beats GT350

And the GT350 beats Stingray

Then Camaro 1LE is better than Stingray..

Its a waste of money and resources to go with a Stingray...PATHETIC even...

GM should just cancel the Stingray.

How could GM engineer a C7 only to have a lowly pony car beat it?

2 lowly pony cars beat it....

2 pony cars!!!

The Camaro 1LE AND the GT350

El K, you argue like a highschool-er!

Look. I already explained why the Shelby won. It was politics because Ford was trying to avoid what we're now seeing at MT.

Now go calm down. It's just getting silly, and I don't want to make any cruel comeback quips about elementary school.

 

C/D stated the GT350 won because of politics?

Well, they deliberately sidestepped comparing it to the SS, and titled the article "Asymmetrical Warfare." They may as well have called it "we tried our best but they wouldn't let us do what you want to see."

 

 

So the GT350R didn't win the BDC?

 

What did?

[El Kabong]

Look, folks.

While I'm thrilled that I've given the forum a nice, lively thread... I'm not interested in sifting through butthurt ranting to formulate responses.

So if you have issues with the article I cited, just explain why. And if you think Ford is doing the right thing by withholding test cars then why bother getting wound up about when GM gets props for the cars it DOES provide?

Nobody's forcing you to read this. If you don't like it, don't read it. And certainly don't post in here. I'm not running a babysitting service.

Edited July 21, 2016 by El Kabong

[surreal1272]

I don't feel like posting yours and EK's attackfest here. Reading that crap there is enough as it is.

So you'll make the claim but don't provide any real counter to what I'm saying? Well, you sure convinced me. Me thinks you need to just stop bringing your sour grapes from there to here especially when you only want to present one side of the situation. There were conspiracy theories galore from Ford fans such as yourself about about MT rigging the comparo even though they declared the Mutsang the winner. Seriously, Costco must have been wiped out of tinfoil that day. Again, you cannot deny those facts which is why you have resorted to these simple one liners.

 

Deny the facts? 

 

I don't need to counter your attack comments from M/T.

Again missing the point.

Btw, I have not denied my role over there. You, on the other hand, have come up with one excuse after another why Ford fans are not to blame for their role in it.

But I digress.

[oldshurst442]

Look, folks.

While I'm thrilled that I've given the forum a nice, lively thread... I'm not interested in sifting through butthurt ranting to formulate responses.

So if you have issues with the article I cited, just explain why. And if you think Ford is doing the right thing by withholding test cars then why bother getting wound up about when GM gets props for the cars it DOES provide?

Nobody's forcing you to read this. If you don't like it, don't read it. And certainly don't post in here. I'm not running a babysitting service.

Who is butthurt other than YOURSELF?

[El Kabong]

That makes no sense.

I provided the article. I showed a possible source for the rationale Ford's PR people have by the fact that it's ponycar is not good performance value. I called out your blanket statement on all magazines being crap.

So... who's butthurt again?

Seriously

[oldshurst442]

That makes no sense.

I provided the article. I showed a possible source for the rationale Ford's PR people have by the fact that it's ponycar is not good performance value. I called out your blanket statement on all magazines being crap.

So... who's butthurt again?

Seriously

I debunked you and MT and you butthurt that your crap does not fly...

And you resorted by:

 

1. calling me a fanboy of some sort.

2. saying Im butthurt.

 

But...like you said....it is YOUR thread that is full of shyte that MANY have seen through..

In the process, many see through YOUR crap even more....

THIS thread makes it so vivid that you are nothing but hot air and empty words...

 

Yeah....you butthurt alright!

 

 

All this for a lowly Ford Focus in a compact car segment comparo....

 

MT is on a battle cry for a Ford Focus....

 

SILLY and they lost me forever as somebody that takes their word seriously...

And whoever uses Motor Trend as their bible for arguing cars..

Edited July 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

Nope, nope, nope... and nope.

The article's premise is sound. The whining is tiresome. The accusation of fanboism is at the very least plausible, for the blanket magazine statement if nothing else.

C'mon man. Ford is slipping and hopes nobody is seeing the product rot lurking behind the curtain.

Edited July 21, 2016 by El Kabong

[El Kabong]

Now, to further drive home the point...

I won't provide the link, but GMI has just posted a writeup on cooling system improvements for the '17 Z06. It appears that most of the published instances of heat soak on earlier Z06 model were due to Motor Trend, and one staffer in particular. So... did GM get all whiny and hold back test cars?

Nope. They used the feedback to make a better Corvette. Because that's the smart thing to do. And now they have a Camaro SS in the BDC shootout that sounds like it's a cat let loose among the pigeons.

[ocnblu]

You guys really totally need to get a room.  Preferably soundproof.

[El Kabong]

I made my request for good bahaviour a few posts ago. Not much I can do besides that

[oldshurst442]

Now, to further drive home the point...

I won't provide the link, but GMI has just posted a writeup on cooling system improvements for the '17 Z06. It appears that most of the published instances of heat soak on earlier Z06 model were due to Motor Trend, and one staffer in particular. So... did GM get all whiny and hold back test cars?

Nope. They used the feedback to make a better Corvette. Because that's the smart thing to do. And now they have a Camaro SS in the BDC shootout that sounds like it's a cat let loose among the pigeons.

 

No but you and CASA cried like babies regarding MT and that issue over at MT forums....

 

Like I said...YOU cherry pick!

I made my request for good bahaviour a few posts ago. Not much I can do besides that

yeah....you could quit your charade and leave this like that....

 

But you want to have the last word....by back slapping insults towards me or Ford....

But you wont have the last word...because I wont let your crap go through

[Drew Dowdell]

You guys don't want me to have the last word... 

[oldshurst442]

As long as you Drew, have the last word...

[El Kabong]

I stand by the article I posted.

[oldshurst442]

And I stand by my opinion...

[El Kabong]

Good.

So, does anyone think that Ford will be more accommodating to the automotive press going forward?

[oldshurst442]

Double good.

 

So....does it really matter?

And who the phoque actually cares other than a couple of trolls...

[El Kabong]

You answered. I guess we got that answer.

Dayum

[surreal1272]

Double good.

 

So....does it really matter?

And who the phoque actually cares other than a couple of trolls...

So is Drew a troll? I say that because he also expressed concern about Fords tactics.

[oldshurst442]

Don't be putting words in my mouth...

 

Dayum is right....

 

I guess El K...

 

There is nothing more to say about that.

 

You stand by your thread and I stand by my opinion.

 

Is there anything more to add other than pushing a trolly agenda?

 

 

Remember,

Drew has already warned BOTH of us...

 

(PS...Surreal. Does THAT answer your question on where Drew stands with me?!)

[surreal1272]

Don't be putting words in my mouth...

 

Dayum is right....

 

I guess El K...

 

There is nothing more to say about that.

 

You stand by your thread and I stand by my opinion.

 

Is there anything more to add other than pushing a trolly agenda?

 

 

Remember,

Drew has already warned BOTH of us...

 

(PS...Surreal. Does THAT answer your question on where Drew stands with me?!)

You are the one that said only trolls give a "phoque". Drew also expressed concerns about Ford and the publications, hence me asking you if you think Drew is a troll since you seem to think only trolls give a "phoque". That's not me putting words in your mouth. That is me asking you a legitimate question.