William Maley

Ford News: Rumorpile: Next Ford Fiesta ST Could Get 3-Cylinder Turbo Power

35 posts in this topic

William Maley    393

The current Ford Fiesta ST uses a 1.6L EcoBoost four-cylinder. But the next-generation Fiesta ST could be using a turbocharged three-cylinder.

“We’re seeing more and more of what we can do with the 1.0-litre engine in development and the signs are promising. It’s a great engine – it sounds brilliant and there’s loads of torque when the turbo comes on boost, so we’re looking into things for the next ST,” said Darren Palmer, Ford's head of small cars to Auto Express.

 

Currently, the most powerful version of the 1.0L EcoBoost three-cylinder produces 138 horsepower. But Ford has been experimenting with the engine to see how much power can be extracted. At the moment, the company has been able to get 202 horsepower.

“There’s still a huge demand for the ST – we’ve seen that with the current ST200. But we want to offer more, so expect more performance and efficiency,” said Palmer.

Source: Auto Express

 

 

View full article

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ccap41    1,161

This isn't VW news...

Anyway, as long as they keep it quite powerful this thing will still be a blast to drive. I'm yet to drive one but I don't think I've read a bad thing about them.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

This isn't VW news...

Anyway, as long as they keep it quite powerful this thing will still be a blast to drive. I'm yet to drive one but I don't think I've read a bad thing about them.

Quite tempted buy the current model myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ocnblu    733

I sawr one the other day in that green.  Sweet little runner.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,993
44 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

If you note his remarks, he does not state that it would be 1.0L.  

Fact is, it would be much bigger.  And fewer cylinders is always better, assuming similar displacements.

For fuel economy / internal friction.... sure. Not always on balance and revving. (i.e. a 3.0 liter V8 will be smoother and rev faster than a 3.0 liter 4-cylinder assuming the same valvetrain setup) 

However, even the 5-cylinder engines I've driven have been fairly disappointing on that front (Volvo excepted). All the fuel economy of a V6 with all the power of a N/A 4-cylinder. 

That said.... I do think the 1.0 Ecoboost is the superior engine in the Fiesta. It's not a smooth as the 4-cylinder, but it has a fun growl. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000

Compare a 1.5L I4 and I3,

I3 packages far smaller and easier

I3 weighs far less

I3 has far less friction and better FE

I3 has much bigger bore, which mostly benefits larger valves and more airflow

I3 GTDI will rev faster and just as smooth

I3 Structure is stronger (length of crank, gearbox, etc.)

 

A 1.0L works harder due to less power, and is a bit more NVH, but that cancels out when you have similar displacements/power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,993
47 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Compare a 1.5L I4 and I3,

 

I3 packages far smaller and easier

 

I3 weighs far less

 

I3 has far less friction and better FE

 

I3 has much bigger bore, which mostly benefits larger valves and more airflow

 

I3 GTDI will rev faster and just as smooth

 

I3 Structure is stronger (length of crank, gearbox, etc.)

 

 

 

A 1.0L works harder due to less power, and is a bit more NVH, but that cancels out when you have similar displacements/power

 

I don't disagree with most of those.  I took issue with the "always". 

Assuming all else equal on an I4 and I3, the 3 won't be as smooth, simple mathematical balance dictates that. Revving faster is also only a maybe... with the bigger bores comes more mass moving in each cylinder. Each time one of those three chunks of mass have to slow down, stop, and change direction there is inertia to overcome.  This is an oversimplification, but each piston will weigh 1/3rd more than in an I-4 (again, all else being equal).  While the total number of piston direction changes happens more often in an I4, the mass of each of those pistons is lower. 

This is born out historically...generally small V8s rev better than big V6es. Small V6es rev better than big I4s. 

I like the I-3. I think it has a strong future ahead.... I'm just reluctant to attribute things to it that aren't really there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,993
4 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Humming along on dyno's at the moment.

Well you better get over there to manually shift through all 10 speeds on that DCT... :P

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't disagree with most of those.  I took issue with the "always". 

Assuming all else equal on an I4 and I3, the 3 won't be as smooth, simple mathematical balance dictates that. Revving faster is also only a maybe... with the bigger bores comes more mass moving in each cylinder. Each time one of those three chunks of mass have to slow down, stop, and change direction there is inertia to overcome.  This is an oversimplification, but each piston will weigh 1/3rd more than in an I-4 (again, all else being equal).  While the total number of piston direction changes happens more often in an I4, the mass of each of those pistons is lower. 

This is born out historically...generally small V8s rev better than big V6es. Small V6es rev better than big I4s. 

I like the I-3. I think it has a strong future ahead.... I'm just reluctant to attribute things to it that aren't really there. 

There are balance tricks to mitigate it, without adding weight and extensive engineering. You counter externally, and balance as a system, including the mounts.  That's what they did with the 1.0L.   But I am sure you knew that.  But again, with boosted engines, they are both quieter and smoother due to not need to rev.  In general.  Most reviews of the 1.0L praised it's smoothness, quick revving and growl.  

So again, on a same displacement comparison, 

smoothness will be similar, as delivered.

It will be rev happy, even with the bigger bore, and it is stroke that impacts that more than bore size.

and the growl will be even better, due to bigger bore and chamber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drew Dowdell    4,993

All of those tricks mean that they aren't equal... which was precisely my point.... all else being equal... an I4 will be better balanced and smoother than an I3.  I'm not discouraging the use of those tricks either... Buick used a few of them in the Encore and it's noticeable that they didn't make it into the Trax.

I'm very precise with my statements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000

Tricks?  It’s called balancing a motor.  Something every motor should and does do.  They just approach it different with the I3.  That’s not a ‘trick’ when you tune a system properly, as a system. 

Precise with your words?

Not in this case.

But I think we are both getting a bit mixed up here in our terms. Let’s review:

 An I3 actually vibrates less than an I4, because there is no piston pairing, so some might call it smoother than an I4, especially at higher rpm.  An I4 is actually a bit smoother, but vibrates  more at higher RPM, due to the piston pairing and phasing at 180deg.  An I6 is also paired, but benefits from perfect phase balance of 120.  The I3 has a 240 phase and looks like a Y viewed at the end of the crank. That is closer to an I6 in appearance, than an I4 at 180. And  in total, it’s about counterweight placement and their  phasing.  Or more specifically, the conservation of momentum, or how the piston/rod counterweight is configured to counter the reciprocating and rotating mass.

And although a powertrain design engineer analyst by trade and certainly know a thing or two about what I speak, I am too humble to state I use precise words. I am human after all, and mistakes happen.

Edited by Wings4Life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ccap41    1,161
2 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Humming along on dyno's at the moment.

It's only a fact if it is provable. Otherwise you sound like the other guy who overused that word. 

Wanna show us some inside news on the new motor?!? NEVER BEFORE SEEN FOOTAGE?!?(not being a smartass but I realize this cannot be done..so maybe that is being a smartass.. well I'm just jokin around. )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's only a fact if it is provable. Otherwise you sound like the other guy who overused that word. 

Wanna show us some inside news on the new motor?!? NEVER BEFORE SEEN FOOTAGE?!?(not being a smartass but I realize this cannot be done..so maybe that is being a smartass.. well I'm just jokin around. )

The forum world was busy discussing the new and larger I3 and I4 family from Ford recently, complete with a code project name.  I assumed everyone heard about it. hence my subtle reference to it.  Perhaps you have not heard it here.  

And normally I would share what I can, but lately, with all the down-talking and rudeness around here, I would rather not.  Why would I.

Thanks

Edited by Wings4Life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Wings on cell phone   
Guest Wings on cell phone
3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes.. a trick. Active motor mounts are tricks used to hide/tame engine imbalance. So are counter rotating balance shafts. So is active noise cancellation. 

None of which is used with the 1.0l.

hence no tricks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Wings on cell phone   
Guest Wings on cell phone
3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We've been talking engines...was i rude to an engine?

Did someone suggest you have been rude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ocnblu    733

I'm all for mechanical entertainment.  I was high on the 1.0 EB in the Fiesta until I realized Ford would only pair it with a car that has plastic wheel covers and no FOG LIGHTS.  Who does that?

 

Local dealer has a black Focus hatch with the 1.0L and stick on the lot.  Hmmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      With only 500 Ford GTs being built for its production, each one will be considered as a rare and special vehicle. But there will always be those who want something a bit more special. Ford has just the GT for you in the form of the 2018 GT '67 Heritage Edition.
      Paying homage to the 1967 Le Mans victory by the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt, the '67 Heritage Edition is finished in the same red paint and white stripes, as well as the same no.1 that the winning GT40 wore. Other exterior items to take note of are the exposed carbon fiber package, 20-inch forged aluminum wheels, red brake calipers, and silver mirror caps. The interior comes with red accent stitching, anodized gray paddle shifters, exposed carbon fiber trim, and a serialized identification plaque.
      “In creating a worthy successor to the 2017 Heritage edition, we logically looked at our next historic Le Mans victory with the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt. The 2018 Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition pays homage to that win, with a modern take on one of the most important vehicles in Ford’s storied history of racing,” said Dave Pericak, global director of Ford Performance.
      Ford says they will build a limited amount of the GT ’67 Heritage Edition.
      Source: Ford
      Press Release is on Page 2


      FORD PERFORMANCE TO OFFER TRIBUTE LIVERY OF HISTORIC 1967 LE MANS WINNER WITH 2018 FORD GT '67 HERITAGE EDITION
      Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition with unique red-and-white-stripe livery celebrates 1967 Le Mans-winning GT40 Mark IV race car driven by all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt   Ford GT ‘67 Heritage edition honoring historic No. 1 race car introduced for 2018 model year Limited-edition Ford GT features exclusive race-number graphics, plus unique interior colors, materials and appointments DEARBORN, Mich., Aug. 15, 2017 – The 2018 Ford GT will be available in a new limited-edition Heritage theme honoring the GT40 Mark IV race car driven to victory by the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt at Le Mans in 1967. The car will feature unique interior and exterior color themes, and an exclusive wheel finish.
      “In creating a worthy successor to the 2017 Heritage edition, we logically looked at our next historic Le Mans victory with the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt,” said Dave Pericak, global director Ford Performance. “The 2018 Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition pays homage to that win, with a modern take on one of the most important vehicles in Ford’s storied history of racing.”
      The Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition features a gloss-finish Race Red exterior with white stripes and exposed carbon package. The car sports Frozen White No. 1 hood and door graphics, and 20-inch one-piece forged aluminum wheels in silver satin clearcoat with black lug nuts. Red calipers and silver rearview mirror caps complete the look.
      The interior begins with new leather trimming for the carbon fiber seats, with red accent stitching, which carries over to the steering wheel. The seat belt webbing is now red and the paddle shifters are anodized gray. Satin dark stainless appliqués are used on the instrument panel, door register bezels and x-brace.
      Rounding out modifications to the ’67 Heritage edition car are a unique serialized identification plate, plus exposed matte carbon fiber door sills, air register pods and center console.
      “The first Heritage edition car was a huge success, honoring our history with a modern interpretation of the Le Mans winner,” said Garen Nicoghosian, exterior design manager for the car. “Continuing with a 2018 Ford GT based on the winning GT40 Mark IV race car was simply something we needed to do.”
      The Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition can be viewed at FordGT.com using the configuration tool. Limited quantities will be available for the 2018 model year.

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      With only 500 Ford GTs being built for its production, each one will be considered as a rare and special vehicle. But there will always be those who want something a bit more special. Ford has just the GT for you in the form of the 2018 GT '67 Heritage Edition.
      Paying homage to the 1967 Le Mans victory by the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt, the '67 Heritage Edition is finished in the same red paint and white stripes, as well as the same no.1 that the winning GT40 wore. Other exterior items to take note of are the exposed carbon fiber package, 20-inch forged aluminum wheels, red brake calipers, and silver mirror caps. The interior comes with red accent stitching, anodized gray paddle shifters, exposed carbon fiber trim, and a serialized identification plaque.
      “In creating a worthy successor to the 2017 Heritage edition, we logically looked at our next historic Le Mans victory with the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt. The 2018 Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition pays homage to that win, with a modern take on one of the most important vehicles in Ford’s storied history of racing,” said Dave Pericak, global director of Ford Performance.
      Ford says they will build a limited amount of the GT ’67 Heritage Edition.
      Source: Ford
      Press Release is on Page 2


      FORD PERFORMANCE TO OFFER TRIBUTE LIVERY OF HISTORIC 1967 LE MANS WINNER WITH 2018 FORD GT '67 HERITAGE EDITION
      Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition with unique red-and-white-stripe livery celebrates 1967 Le Mans-winning GT40 Mark IV race car driven by all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt   Ford GT ‘67 Heritage edition honoring historic No. 1 race car introduced for 2018 model year Limited-edition Ford GT features exclusive race-number graphics, plus unique interior colors, materials and appointments DEARBORN, Mich., Aug. 15, 2017 – The 2018 Ford GT will be available in a new limited-edition Heritage theme honoring the GT40 Mark IV race car driven to victory by the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt at Le Mans in 1967. The car will feature unique interior and exterior color themes, and an exclusive wheel finish.
      “In creating a worthy successor to the 2017 Heritage edition, we logically looked at our next historic Le Mans victory with the all-American team of Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt,” said Dave Pericak, global director Ford Performance. “The 2018 Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition pays homage to that win, with a modern take on one of the most important vehicles in Ford’s storied history of racing.”
      The Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition features a gloss-finish Race Red exterior with white stripes and exposed carbon package. The car sports Frozen White No. 1 hood and door graphics, and 20-inch one-piece forged aluminum wheels in silver satin clearcoat with black lug nuts. Red calipers and silver rearview mirror caps complete the look.
      The interior begins with new leather trimming for the carbon fiber seats, with red accent stitching, which carries over to the steering wheel. The seat belt webbing is now red and the paddle shifters are anodized gray. Satin dark stainless appliqués are used on the instrument panel, door register bezels and x-brace.
      Rounding out modifications to the ’67 Heritage edition car are a unique serialized identification plate, plus exposed matte carbon fiber door sills, air register pods and center console.
      “The first Heritage edition car was a huge success, honoring our history with a modern interpretation of the Le Mans winner,” said Garen Nicoghosian, exterior design manager for the car. “Continuing with a 2018 Ford GT based on the winning GT40 Mark IV race car was simply something we needed to do.”
      The Ford GT ’67 Heritage edition can be viewed at FordGT.com using the configuration tool. Limited quantities will be available for the 2018 model year.
    • By William Maley
      General Motors isn't the only one considering putting vehicles on the chopping block. The Detroit News has learned from three sources that Ford is considering ending production on three models for the U.S. - the Fiesta, C-Max Hybrid, and Taurus. Sources say the Taurus would be first to go in late 2018. The Fiesta would follow suit either in late 2018 or 2019. The C-Max would be the last model to end production in early 2019.
      Ford said they would make an announcement concerning the C-Max at a later date. The company declined to comment on the other vehicles.
      The Taurus has been long rumored to be cut from Ford's lineup due to poor sales. This was further bolstered by the company unveiling a new Taurus for China, but not for the U.S. back in 2016.
      Rumors about the Fiesta leaving the U.S. lineup began last year when CarScoops learned from a source that the next-generation Fiesta would not come to the U.S. due to there not being "enough demand to justify the costs." Earlier this week, Romanian site 0-100 spoke with Fiesta program manager Robert Stiller who said this,
      "The previous model was a global Ford product, and with the new generation we are targeting only Europe, the Middle East and Africa,” said Stiller.
      “In North America, especially in the US, China and Latin America, the demand for such cars is declining, and we are reacting accordingly.”
      Source: Detroit News, CarScoops, 0-100.ro

      View full article
  • My Clubs

  • Who's Online (See full list)