ev Europe's 400 Ultra-Fast Charging Network by 2020

[A Horse With No Name]

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2016/11/30/5g-technologies-will-power-a-greener-future-for-cities/

dfelt, here is an excellent article for you on what that future will look like...enjoy!

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Regarding my so called inability to accept change, I don’t know what to say.  Maybe I am.  I actually have no problem admitting I am slow, if I felt I was…..but I don’t believe I am. My career at an R&A engineering facility requires me to constantly think out of the box as we develop products 5-10 years down the road, as I am constantly benchmarking and reading up on where the competition is and where it might be going. My daily passions often focus on the latest and greatest technology gadgets available, and I love reading up on future tech.  Always have been, subscribing to rags like Popular Science and the like when I was a teenager.  When new auto tech features come to market, I am quick to want to obtain them.  Olds, you can classify me any way you like, as my skin is very thick, but I will absolutely agree to disagree on your assessment.

 

So let’s review where your assessment came from.  In this thread and others, I have proclaimed EV vehicles to be very restrictive and costly.  Am I wrong with that statement(s)? No I certainly am not, the facts clearly back that up.  Sure, one can debate that it’s getting better.  But ‘better’ from near zero, is not progress enough yet, not for me, not by a Detroit mile. Still too many compromises. Just the other day I drove through a dealership with the wife, and showed her a PHEV Fusion.  It was a costing less than $40K. I did a quick calculation of price to purchase, rather than lease, account for hybrid credits, expected incentives next spring and A-plan pricing, and she agreed it seems like a good choice and a nice upgrade from my Fusion.  So does that sound like what you have proclaimed me to be  repeatedly in your rants? Hardly.  I recognize a product that fits my lifestyle and offers ZERO comprises today, and certainly into the future, and my favorite aspect is that I don’t have to plug in EVER if I choose, or, with the massive range I only have stop for gas maybe once a month.  Ahhhh, that is most attractive to me.  I hate charging my freaking phone every few days, and worst yet, I hate having to constantly think about a charge state.  I just want to get in and drive for weeks at a time  – all while barely using any fuel and PZEV emissions. But hey, that’s me.

 

So I stand by my main point in this thread, that EV is not ready for prime time consumption for the vast majority of the masses. Not for customers and certainly not for automakers, who lose money with each sale, which directly impacts my livelihood. I just read an article stating that GM is losing $9K for every Bolt they will sell. I know that Ford loses money on their EV Focus, and barely make any on their other electrified vehicles. Does that sound like it is America’s fault that we are NOT adapting EV quicker?  Do you REALLY think that economies of scale of these expensive batteries to produce will suddenly change all that?  Ford has done the math. Contrary to what you surely believe, they are not beholden to ICE simply because they produce more of them.  If they see an opportunity or path to sell FAR more EV product, they will shift gears on a dime.  But the physics and science is not there yet. But clearly, as stated and linked, America is embracing it just enough to propagate it.  But at what rate?  Do you make what people want to buy, or what they should buy?  And who makes that choice?

 

In summary, I believe that America’s progression in electrification as alternative propulsion should be carefully balanced against many factors.  I believe that Ford and GM are both taking a conservative paths to get there, albeit slightly divergent. I think it is dangerous to over-react to bold future claims by someone like Musk.  Slow and steady for the long haul, rather than focusing on attention grabbing headlines that are gone the next day.  But that’s just me too.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Wings4Life

[oldshurst442]

27 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

In this thread and others, I have proclaimed EV vehicles to be very restrictive and costly.

Blanket statement as ALL NEW TECHNOLOGIES are restrictive and costly...

What @A Horse With No Name had as a blanket statement regarding America of the 1950s and 1960s is more to my liking...

Your Feta being spoiled:

Yes its true: Ford and GM are spending money on EVs....but the REAL CHANGE is HAPPENING in Europe according to the OP...

In YOUR country...the USA....there are DETRACTORS singing a great tune of making America great again....yet GM in YOUR country, is BLOCKING Tesla in selling directly to its customer base and people like YOU defend that!

People like YOU ELECTED Trump and one of Trump's promises is to redirect monies into the fossil fuel business...no mention of an elaborate EV infrastructure like what is gonna happen in Euroland...

So....you could take the easy way out and say to me I focus on you, but in reality, I just keep on plugging the same message:

All YOU give me is excuses.

ACTIONS or in the US' case....INACTIONS speak louder than words!

Edited December 2, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

9 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

My quote clearly proved you wrong, American industry is also making a push toward electricity.

And I stand by my remark, that when EV's are not severely limited and expensive, then Americans will start buying them. Last I looked, that is not the case.  We can't tow our boats and trailers and large SUV's with a Bolt or Tesla S, and we also can't afford what little there is available.

Does that response really warrant a rant from you olds?

The F-150 may be the best selling single model out there, but it is greatly outnumbered by the number of Civics, Camrys, Focuses, and Accords that are sold each year. Most people still buy cars that can't tow large boats or trailers. 

[oldshurst442]

18 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

In summary, I believe that America’s progression in electrification as alternative propulsion should be carefully balanced against many factors.  I believe that Ford and GM are both taking a conservative paths

Not in Europe Ford and GM are not taking a slow and conservative approach...

Hell..Europeans are not either....

There is NO REASON for America and Americans to be slow....

Elon Musk's Tesla is HEADQUARTERED IN THE USA and TESLA BUILT ITS OWN EV INFRASTRUCTURE 5 YEARS IN THE MAKING ALREADY!!!

EXCUSES EXCUSES IS ALL I HEAR!

[Drew Dowdell]

I've had to clean up a bunch of posts that had politics in them or were just plain trolling.  No warning points were issued this time, but keep the politics in the political threads or points will start being handed out. 

[oldshurst442]

34 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

But the physics and science is not there yet. But clearly, as stated and linked, America is embracing it just enough to propagate it.  But at what rate?  Do you make what people want to buy, or what they should buy?  And who makes that choice?

 

The physics is there. One needs to break ground. Rome was not built in a day, but you have to start somewhere. Europe is taking a first step. Tesla too. But in America we are waiting for Tesla to do it all on their own but laugh when we see they are losing money and cheer for their demise.

The science is definitely there!!!

Quote

Do you make what people want to buy, or what they should buy?  And who makes that choice?

Funny..as Michigan is preventing Tesla in selling its cars directly to its customers....

Your thought process is only justified when it suits YOUR agendas..but not when its the other way around...

Edited December 2, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

47 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The F-150 may be the best selling single model out there, but it is greatly outnumbered by the number of Civics, Camrys, Focuses, and Accords that are sold each year. Most people still buy cars that can't tow large boats or trailers. 

You don’t say, more people buy $20-30K products than they do $40-60K?  Shocking.

 

But guess what, people don’t just use trucks for utility and towing. 

Why don’t you count up all the trucks, SUV’s and CUV’s and Minivans sold.

Tell ya what, don’t bother….there are far more sold. 

 

So go ahead and enjoy your EV Drew.  Choice is great. Never said it was not.

I personally like the choice of cheaper, minus restrictions.

But that’s

Just

Me

50 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I've had to clean up a bunch of posts that had politics in them or were just plain trolling.  No warning points were issued this time, but keep the politics in the political threads or points will start being handed out. 

You mean in the political threads that get closed because of too much debate.

 

But wait, it's our fault as we act like children and can't debate with out mods stepping in.

Yeah, yeah, we know.  Shame on some of us that ruin it for everyone.

[Drew Dowdell]

There is a place for the political talk on this site and it isn't in the Alternative Fuels folder.  I might be a little lenient if the political talk was directly about EV adoption or some new law regarding alternative fuels... but what was posted wasn't any of that. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

19 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is a place for the political talk on this site and it isn't in the Alternative Fuels folder.  I might be a little lenient if the political talk was directly about EV adoption or some new law regarding alternative fuels... but what was posted wasn't any of that. 

Great.

But I did not start it, FYI

[oldshurst442]

31 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

SUV’s and CUV’s and Minivans sold.

 

Tell ya what, don’t bother….there are far more sold. 

Problem is:

and most of these arent capable to haul traliers and boats...

Then there are these:

where these are all show and no go for hauling trailers and boats...

SHYTE....even the ones that are meant to haul boats and trailers:

MOST OF THOSE GO TO SOCCER MOMS WHO HAUL THEIR PRECIOUS LITTLE BRATS TO SCHOOL AND THEN THESE SOCCER MOMS GO TO THE STARBUCKS TO DRINK THEIR LATTES WAITING FOR THE LOVER TO CHEAT ON THEIR HUSBANDS!!!

Again Wings, EXCUSES EXCUSES IS WHAT YOU SPEW!

4 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Great.

But I did not start it, FYI

Oh yes you did...

I quoted you!

22 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Americans will embrace EV when someone produces an EV without massive limitations and cost.  Until then, automakers can offer them in minimalist numbers, losing thousands each sale, because of unrealistic CAFE mandates.

This is the one...where Drew removed the content....

The FIRST in a series of which I engaged in also to that post...

STOP LYING!

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Great.

But I did not start it, FYI

I don't believe you saw me say anything regarding that.

[oldshurst442]

And of course the Big Man makes a negative down...

WHY?

Because a Chevy Trax, BMW X1/X3, Honda CRV, Nissan Rogue and the like are NOT CUVs?

Because a Chevy Trax, BMW X1/X3, Honda CRV, Nissan Rogue and the like are engineered to haul 8000 lbs worth of boat?

Because Latte drinking soccer moms dont drive Escalades and F-150s and Yukons and Tahoes and Silverados rather than hauling boats and trailers everyday?

 

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't believe you saw me say anything regarding that.

GUILT.

He knows what he done. Its GUILT!

Or...sometimes he likes to play the victim/martyr card...

But but....you and him will tell me not to focus on the poster!

Yet...he whines a lot MAKING IT ABOUT HIM!!!

Quote

 

Great.

But I did not start it, FYI

 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

Could we all please remove the sand from our respective private parts and act like adults?

[David]

No matter how one looks at auto's the future is bright for EV auto's and fast charging. Wireless has a huge support by various groups around the US. If they can get 350kWh fast charging that is wireless, where you just drive onto a pad, that would rock!  

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't believe you saw me say anything regarding that.

Did not say you did.

It was an FYI for others.

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

No matter how one looks at auto's the future is bright for EV auto's and fast charging. Wireless has a huge support by various groups around the US. If they can get 350kWh fast charging that is wireless, where you just drive onto a pad, that would rock!  

Most technology has social elements that resist it when it first came out...basically human behavior....people whined like crazy when steam ships started taking business away from sailing ships...

Edited December 2, 2016 by A Horse With No Name

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

No matter how one looks at auto's the future is bright for EV auto's and fast charging. Wireless has a huge support by various groups around the US. If they can get 350kWh fast charging that is wireless, where you just drive onto a p

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

And of course the Big Man makes a negative down...

WHY?

Because a Chevy Trax, BMW X1/X3, Honda CRV, Nissan Rogue and the like are NOT CUVs?

Because a Chevy Trax, BMW X1/X3, Honda CRV, Nissan Rogue and the like are engineered to haul 8000 lbs worth of boat?

Because Latte drinking soccer moms dont drive Escalades and F-150s and Yukons and Tahoes and Silverados rather than hauling boats and trailers everyday?

 

GUILT.

He knows what he done. Its GUILT!

Or...sometimes he likes to play the victim/martyr card...

But but....you and him will tell me not to focus on the poster!

Yet...he whines a lot MAKING IT ABOUT HIM!!!

 

BUMP...

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Did not say you did.

It was an FYI for others.

Maybe you should take head in your own advice

22 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Americans will embrace EV when someone produces an EV without massive limitations and cost.  Until then, automakers can offer them in minimalist numbers, losing thousands each sale, because of unrealistic CAFE mandates.

THIS WAS THE FIRST ONE........

 

STOP LYING!

IF DREW LETS YOU HAVE YOUR TANTRUM AND LETS YOU GET AWAY WITH IT, I WONT!
I WILL SACRIFICE MYSELF TO PUT YOU BACK INTO YOUR PLACE!

DREW YOU COULD BAN ME...I DONT GIVE A SHYTE!

STOP LYING AND PLAYING THE VICTIM!
 

Edited December 2, 2016 by oldshurst442

[David]

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Most technology has social elements that resist it when it first came out...basically human behavior....people whined like crazy when steam ships started taking business away from sailing ships...

So True, Speed does that to those with little patience. Yet at least we are moving back to the natural sounds of the planet with EV auto's. So much quiet time to enjoy the beauty of the surrounding space.

[David]

@Wings4Life@oldshurst442

Guys, please if you want to bitch and fight over the political correctness ov EV's, open a thread in the political section. I am sure many would be happy to input their thoughts on this.

Please focus on the forum thread about Fast Charging in Europe and what affects it could have on the rest of the world. Take the higher road and move on.

Thank you,

[A Horse With No Name]

11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So True, Speed does that to those with little patience. Yet at least we are moving back to the natural sounds of the planet with EV auto's. So much quiet time to enjoy the beauty of the surrounding space.

But for those who embrace Science, technology and reality there is a bright, bright future.  Did you check out the article I posted for you?

[David]

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

But for those who embrace Science, technology and reality there is a bright, bright future.  Did you check out the article I posted for you?

Yes, Thank you, sorry I did not post to it as I was distracted on other things. 5G should have been here years ago. Our biggest problem with wireless is the small pipe compared to being plugged in on a wire. Even tri-band WiFi units are still slow compared to if you have a GB wired connection or fiber. The future will in some place in North America go greener and faster than others all depending on the open mind of individuals and their willingness to accept change.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Yes, Thank you, sorry I did not post to it as I was distracted on other things. 5G should have been here years ago. Our biggest problem with wireless is the small pipe compared to being plugged in on a wire. Even tri-band WiFi units are still slow compared to if you have a GB wired connection or fiber. The future will in some place in North America go greener and faster than others all depending on the open mind of individuals and their willingness to accept change.

I also read it.

I also got distracted...and I apologize as I was the reason for distracting you.

Quote

The future will in some place in North America go greener and faster than others all depending on the open mind of individuals and their willingness to accept change.

So true.

 

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

Of course, this political remark that originated the others, was completely overlooked by drew.  

 

NOTHING POLITICAL THERE BUD!

But of  course, continue on with your CHILDISH SHYTE!

Even when another poster told us to STOP!

Sorry Mr DFELT....once again.

 

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yes, Thank you, sorry I did not post to it as I was distracted on other things. 5G should have been here years ago. Our biggest problem with wireless is the small pipe compared to being plugged in on a wire. Even tri-band WiFi units are still slow compared to if you have a GB wired connection or fiber. The future will in some place in North America go greener and faster than others all depending on the open mind of individuals and their willingness to accept change.

BUMP

Take it from the top!

[Drew Dowdell]

56 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Could we all please remove the sand from our respective private parts and act like adults?

Quoted for truth.

[A Horse With No Name]

So to what extent will cities themselves play in the electrification of Europe?  With population density, would seem like a no brainier for a lot of the funding to come from cities themselves.

[David]

6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

So to what extent will cities themselves play in the electrification of Europe?  With population density, would seem like a no brainier for a lot of the funding to come from cities themselves.

Good valid point, I have not seen how this new rapid charging network is to be funded yet. I would expect some funding to come from the auto companies and other funding from country, state, city funding I guess.

Gonna be interesting to see what all happens.

I honestly think people who drive a bolt love them and once more people can test drive a bolt, buy one and enjoy the minimal maintenance, I would expect more and more people to demand faster recharging and longer ranges.

I am excited by the anouncement by Nikola that they will have a 107kWh battery pack for sale and use by OEMs and ev conversion groups. This will give a big long range to EV's.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

People believe that ICE has little room for improvement.  I recently attended a disruptive powertrain presentation that is very, very promising, with massive gains in efficiency and downsizing.  50% plus BTE estimates, far better than Diesel, and 70% reduction in moving parts and about 1/3 the overall package size and weight.  And it is scalable all the way up to ship motors.  Imagine a SD truck with the same work capability, but an engine that weighs 350lbs instead of 1000lbs, as the 6.7L currently weighs. This is but one example of many out there. And very soon, like in 1-2 years, we will see next gen hybrids and efficient ICE engines that will be talking 50 and 60mpg, and PHEV that will really impress too. I can’t talk to Ford’s EV plans, mostly because I don’t know.  But Ford needs to be competitive on all fronts. EV needs to also exist because states like Cali have a zero emission mandate requirement that reflects on their total sales there.  This is not an opportunity for Ford, but the cost of doing business – thanks to the ‘moronic’ current administration that is more interesting in leaving legacy, along with a trail of lost jobs.  So automakers give them away at a manageable loss.  Sorry, any fool who claims the physics and science is ready for prime time, is not viewing it from a business standpoint – but rather a turn-key user POV. Duh!!  The solution, IMO, is a simple compromise.  PHEV with PZEV ICE engines.  They are available today.  My favorite, obviously is the Fusion, with an MSRP just over $33K and 88mpge.  I heard rumors of over 140mpge with the next gen, and combined with PZEV and a net profit – it is a winning formula with ABSOLUTELY ZERO LIMITATIONS.  And who can possibly complain about stopping once a month for petrol? 

Enjoy, ladies.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Wings4Life

[Drew Dowdell]

I wish someone would do a PHEV with AWD that was somewhat affordable.  Had Ford kept the Escape Hybrid in production, it might have been enough to tip us away from the Encore. 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

I wish someone would do a PHEV with AWD that was somewhat affordable.  Had Ford kept the Escape Hybrid in production, it might have been enough to tip us away from the Encore. 

Agreed.

.,..and look how far we have come in fifteen years.  When the Prius first came out, people laughed...now hybrids are becoming much more mainstream. 

33 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Good valid point, I have not seen how this new rapid charging network is to be funded yet. I would expect some funding to come from the auto companies and other funding from country, state, city funding I guess.

Gonna be interesting to see what all happens.

I honestly think people who drive a bolt love them and once more people can test drive a bolt, buy one and enjoy the minimal maintenance, I would expect more and more people to demand faster recharging and longer ranges.

I am excited by the anouncement by Nikola that they will have a 107kWh battery pack for sale and use by OEMs and ev conversion groups. This will give a big long range to EV's.

I would expect urban areas to be the real growth centers for this.  Here in Columbus we are having charging stations pop up all over. As the more urban creative class of people will probably drive EV sales...having a charging network would be a great way to draw this type of person to your city to live.

16 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

 

People believe that ICE has little room for improvement.  I recently attended a disruptive powertrain presentation that is very, very promising, with massive gains in efficiency and downsizing.  50% plus BTE estimates, far better than Diesel, and 70% reduction in moving parts and about 1/3 the overall package size and weight.  And it is scalable all the way up to ship motors.  Imagine a SD truck with the same work capability, but an engine that weighs 350lbs instead of 1000lbs, as the 6.7L currently weighs. This is but one example of many out there.

And this is the paradigm we need to be working with, intellectually moving forward and improving all technologies.

Com petition is the nature of the free enterprise system, and competition from Diesel and EV is pushing development in gasoline motors...exactly the way that it should be.

[David]

Bloomberg posted this story yesterday. I have not had time to research it more than just reading what they say, but GM is expected to absorb about $9,000 per bolt sale loss. But they do also admit there is a break even point where the BOLT if it takes off can become profitable rather quickly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/gm-s-ready-to-lose-9-000-a-pop-and-chase-the-electric-car-boom

Interesting is that this story covers that 9 states have adopted CA zero emission mandate and to do business in those states that make up 30% of the car market you will have to have EV's.

Chevy's is even quoted with this:

according to Tim Mahoney, Chevy’s chief marketing officer. For one thing, it lures younger, technologically savvy buyers who probably wouldn’t have considered Chevrolet, he said. “It’s a statement about what we can do for the Chevy brand.”

Interesting is that GM can totally cover the loss and make a profit if they sell only 7,698 Bolts as that would give them the clean air credits and GM was the least among all auto companies in 2015 in having to buy credits. As stated, the US is 1/5th of the global car market so all auto companies cannot afford to ignore the EV movement.

Another interesting read in regards to what CA is doing in regards to President elect Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/california-s-clean-car-resistance-to-donald-trump-quicktake-q-a

End result is that this brings us right back to what this thread started. The need for faster and better recharge network.

I can easily see gas stations changing one section of pumps to chargers and the other left as pumps during this change over.

I do wonder how fast this will take compared to the early 1900's with petro.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, dfelt said:

Bloomberg posted this story yesterday. I have not had time to research it more than just reading what they say, but GM is expected to absorb about $9,000 per bolt sale loss. But they do also admit there is a break even point where the BOLT if it takes off can become profitable rather quickly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/gm-s-ready-to-lose-9-000-a-pop-and-chase-the-electric-car-boom

Interesting is that this story covers that 9 states have adopted CA zero emission mandate and to do business in those states that make up 30% of the car market you will have to have EV's.

Chevy's is even quoted with this:

according to Tim Mahoney, Chevy’s chief marketing officer. For one thing, it lures younger, technologically savvy buyers who probably wouldn’t have considered Chevrolet, he said. “It’s a statement about what we can do for the Chevy brand.”

Interesting is that GM can totally cover the loss and make a profit if they sell only 7,698 Bolts as that would give them the clean air credits and GM was the least among all auto companies in 2015 in having to buy credits. As stated, the US is 1/5th of the global car market so all auto companies cannot afford to ignore the EV movement.

Another interesting read in regards to what CA is doing in regards to President elect Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/california-s-clean-car-resistance-to-donald-trump-quicktake-q-a

End result is that this brings us right back to what this thread started. The need for faster and better recharge network.

I can easily see gas stations changing one section of pumps to chargers and the other left as pumps during this change over.

I do wonder how fast this will take compared to the early 1900's with petro.

Give it fifteen years....

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Bloomberg posted this story yesterday. I have not had time to research it more than just reading what they say, but GM is expected to absorb about $9,000 per bolt sale loss. But they do also admit there is a break even point where the BOLT if it takes off can become profitable rather quickly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/gm-s-ready-to-lose-9-000-a-pop-and-chase-the-electric-car-boom

Interesting is that this story covers that 9 states have adopted CA zero emission mandate and to do business in those states that make up 30% of the car market you will have to have EV's.

Chevy's is even quoted with this:

according to Tim Mahoney, Chevy’s chief marketing officer. For one thing, it lures younger, technologically savvy buyers who probably wouldn’t have considered Chevrolet, he said. “It’s a statement about what we can do for the Chevy brand.”

Interesting is that GM can totally cover the loss and make a profit if they sell only 7,698 Bolts as that would give them the clean air credits and GM was the least among all auto companies in 2015 in having to buy credits. As stated, the US is 1/5th of the global car market so all auto companies cannot afford to ignore the EV movement.

Another interesting read in regards to what CA is doing in regards to President elect Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/california-s-clean-car-resistance-to-donald-trump-quicktake-q-a

End result is that this brings us right back to what this thread started. The need for faster and better recharge network.

I can easily see gas stations changing one section of pumps to chargers and the other left as pumps during this change over.

I do wonder how fast this will take compared to the early 1900's with petro.

Thing is... I don't think we've seen the last of what GM can do with the Bolt.  They didn't spend all of that money to develop a dedicated platform just to sell that one car.  I could see a more svelte Buick version, even if only for China and Europe, but possibly here too. Even a Cadillac on this platform if they can up the performance spec and stretch the size.  The platform is supposed to be extremely stiff, so that could mean flexibility in shape and size. 

Quote

I can easily see gas stations changing one section of pumps to chargers and the other left as pumps during this change over.

One of the two largest gas station chains in my area is rapidly upgrading their stores to include a sit-down area for their made to order food.  Now I'm sure they are doing this for the food profit margins, but if they were to put a few EV chargers in each station that has sit down food, they could instantly become a go-to place for EV drivers. They can lure customers in for the EV chargers and then make a profit on selling expensive coffee and food.

And it's different than a Tesla Supercharger.... with the Supercharger, it's just a stand out in the middle of a parking lot... only sometimes is it attached to a rest station.  The first gas chain to make this work by tying it to food will have a hit on their hands. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Thing is... I don't think we've seen the last of what GM can do with the Bolt.  They didn't spend all of that money to develop a dedicated platform just to sell that one car.  I could see a more svelte Buick version, even if only for China and Europe, but possibly here too. Even a Cadillac on this platform if they can up the performance spec and stretch the size.  The platform is supposed to be extremely stiff, so that could mean flexibility in shape and size. 

One of the two largest gas station chains in my area is rapidly upgrading their stores to include a sit-down area for their made to order food.  Now I'm sure they are doing this for the food profit margins, but if they were to put a few EV chargers in each station that has sit down food, they could instantly become a go-to place for EV drivers. They can lure customers in for the EV chargers and then make a profit on selling expensive coffee and food.

And it's different than a Tesla Supercharger.... with the Supercharger, it's just a stand out in the middle of a parking lot... only sometimes is it attached to a rest station.  The first gas chain to make this work by tying it to food will have a hit on their hands. 

The other thing I think people will like is charging at home....I hate buying fuel when I am trying to get home from work.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The other thing I think people will like is charging at home....I hate buying fuel when I am trying to get home from work.

Yes!  I long for the day that I will be able to pull into the garage and plug in. I have three automotive mouths to feed... it is not unusual for me to fill one up, switch vehicles for some reason later in the day, and end up filling two of them up in the same day.  I'm sure I've filled all three up in the same day at least once or twice. 

[David]

Nice thing is as the EV charging grows, price like anything will come down. I can see local utilities installing 440 fast chargers in homes rather than a 220. 

Charging at home just makes sense.

[A Horse With No Name]

51 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes!  I long for the day that I will be able to pull into the garage and plug in. I have three automotive mouths to feed... it is not unusual for me to fill one up, switch vehicles for some reason later in the day, and end up filling two of them up in the same day.  I'm sure I've filled all three up in the same day at least once or twice. 

Can you imagine the cost savings in business when electric takes off?  Back when i was running a service van driving the bucket truck on a regular basis, and fueling a daily for my wife and myself...plus my hobby vehicles...I was buying between $200 and $400 in fuel a week....or more...

49 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Nice thing is as the EV charging grows, price like anything will come down. I can see local utilities installing 440 fast chargers in homes rather than a 220. 

Charging at home just makes sense.

NEC does not allow 440 installed in homes at the present, but 220 ought to be adequate.

[David]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Can you imagine the cost savings in business when electric takes off?  Back when i was running a service van driving the bucket truck on a regular basis, and fueling a daily for my wife and myself...plus my hobby vehicles...I was buying between $200 and $400 in fuel a week....or more...

NEC does not allow 440 installed in homes at the present, but 220 ought to be adequate.

Yea, I know we can only get multiple 220's, but it does make one wonder if they will not change the code as EV's become more common. Plus I wonder if you could get a separate outside commercial install done to have the biggest 440 available at your house separate from the house electrical.

[Drew Dowdell]

38 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yea, I know we can only get multiple 220's, but it does make one wonder if they will not change the code as EV's become more common. Plus I wonder if you could get a separate outside commercial install done to have the biggest 440 available at your house separate from the house electrical.

That would be cost prohibitive to retrofit into existing homes.... would probably only be doable, if even available, during new construction.

We have a bad habit in this country of refusing to demolish outdated and obsolete housing stock, mostly because we're all too strapped for cash to do so. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

7 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

 

Maybe you should take head in your own advice

THIS WAS THE FIRST ONE........

 

STOP LYING!

IF DREW LETS YOU HAVE YOUR TANTRUM AND LETS YOU GET AWAY WITH IT, I WONT!
I WILL SACRIFICE MYSELF TO PUT YOU BACK INTO YOUR PLACE!

DREW YOU COULD BAN ME...I DONT GIVE A SHYTE!

STOP LYING AND PLAYING THE VICTIM!
 

OMG, the Greek Drama Queen is at it again.

Say what you like, I have been consistent on electrification for years.  I dare you to prove otherwise.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think that is necessary. Move on.

[ocnblu]

The EU is about to fall apart.  Remember that.

[Drew Dowdell]

Eh, people have been saying that for years.... Including myself... And I'm really starting to doubt it.  Even the UK is looking like they are having morning after regrets.

[David]

My coworkers in Ireland, Scottland and UK all say that many people are having regrets about leaving the EU and that they could just drag their feet and not go through. Be interesting. I know many companies are looking to leave if they do follow through due to multiple reasons.

Idiots for doing it.