William Maley

Ford News: Ford's Kansas City Plant To Take A Week Off In January

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William Maley    406

Ford will be idling the Kansas City assembly plant for a week next month to cut down on truck and van inventory. Automotive News reports the downtime will take place from January 2nd to 9th. A spokeswoman said the downtime would be used to performance plant maintenance. 

At the moment, Ford has an 85-day inventory of F-Series trucks and 108-day inventory of Transit vans. 

Ford had recently idled Kansas City back in October for a week. It was one of four plants that saw extended downtime this year.

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

 


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surreal1272    770

So GM is not the only one with excess inventory issues and this is the second time in two months that there have been work stoppages, as it relates to the F Series. Time to sit back and enjoy some popcorn.

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William Maley    406
53 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

So GM is not the only one with excess inventory issues and this is the second time in two months that there have been work stoppages, as it relates to the F Series. Time to sit back and enjoy some popcorn.

I'm thinking this next stoppage aside from cutting down inventory is also to get the plant ready for 2018 F-150 refresh. We know there are some new engines (a diesel being one) along with some exterior changes. 

That's my guess.

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surreal1272    770
45 minutes ago, William Maley said:

I'm thinking this next stoppage aside from cutting down inventory is also to get the plant ready for 2018 F-150 refresh. We know there are some new engines (a diesel being one) along with some exterior changes. 

That's my guess.

That's always a possibility but their long stays on the lots seem to suggest and oversupply problem, much like GM. 

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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000

1 factory, 1 week, and not a bad amount of time on the lots for a model that is about to get a refresh.

 

GM can learn something here, as most of their new sedans are on that list of 5 or 6 factories, most of which are closing for 3 weeks, all of which are on lots far longer.

 

 

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surreal1272    770

This is twice in two months, in the case of the best selling F-150 (it was several weeks the first time) but I guess if one has to make excuses, that's how it will always be. 

 

Lets see which is more surprising here. Declining sedan sales (which is affecting all makes) that lead to shut downs?

 

or

 

Shut down(s) (x2 now in two months) on the best selling truck in the country?

 

 

Edited by surreal1272
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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000

F-150 builds in large quantities across several factories. Factory adjustments happen all the time and always will.  In this particular case, I am thinking they spiked up volumes to fill some voids as SD got up to speed.

 

That is all a far cry from a GM 8 year high and glut in product affecting so many plants......all at the same time.....mostly on newer products.

Blind fanboys seeking some kind of common ground here is a laugh.  

GM will be fine, but honestly, they have a whole months worth of excess product to try to move as we enter 2017.  I am very curious how they will do so.

Edited by Wings4Life

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surreal1272    770
13 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

F-150 builds in large quantities across several factories. Factory adjustments happen all the time and always will.  In this particular case, I am thinking they spiked up volumes to fill some voids as SD got up to speed.

 

That is all a far cry from a GM 8 year high and glut in product affecting so many plants......all at the same time.....mostly on newer products.

Blind fanboys seeking some kind of common ground here is a laugh.  

GM will be fine, but honestly, they have a whole months worth of excess product to try to move as we enter 2017.  I am very curious how they will do so.

Again, as long as you have an excuse here while you freely criticize the competition for the EXACT same thing, that's perfectly okay. 

 

You also may may want to watch who you call a blind fanboy given those very excuses. Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind. 

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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, as long as you have an excuse here while you freely criticize the competition for the EXACT same thing, that's perfectly okay. 

 

You also may may want to watch who you call a blind fanboy given those very excuses. Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind. 

And again, one brand deserves the criticism they got, because it is a much bigger problem.

The other brand is not.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
41 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

And again, one brand deserves the criticism they got, because it is a much bigger problem.

The other brand is not.

False.  It is the same problem dealt with in two different ways. 

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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

False.  It is the same problem dealt with in two different ways. 

Sorry, 

5 factories, 3 of them closing for 3 weeks and laying off, all for newer products,  may be considered the same problem, but one is much more serious.

 

 

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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Isn't it like 1 or 2 models vs like 5 or 6?

It is.

And it is normal to idle a factory or two throughout the year, to balance inventories. 

But 5 simultaneously is NOT normal, and suggests a unique problem that needs to be addressed.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
45 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

It is.

And it is normal to idle a factory or two throughout the year, to balance inventories. 

But 5 simultaneously is NOT normal, and suggests a unique problem that needs to be addressed.

Nor is keeping Avis and Budget on speed dial normal... at least not since 2010 or so...   but each company deals with the issue in their own way. 

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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
21 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Nor is keeping Avis and Budget on speed dial normal... at least not since 2010 or so...   but each company deals with the issue in their own way. 

So you do agree with me, it's not normal.

Great.

Now, what should we expect the brand you defend so feverishly to do....Budget call or Fire Sale?

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surreal1272    770
1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Isn't it like 1 or 2 models vs like 5 or 6?

Again, best selling truck (on it's second idle in two months btw) vs declining sedan and coupe sales. I'll let you be the judge of which one is more surprising here and which one comes equipped with more excuses apparently.

 

And just so we are clear here, it should be concerning to GM to have those models on the lots that long so I am not pretending like there isn't an issue there. However, it is fair play to levy equal criticism at Ford, given that they spent the first nine months fire selling more than 30% of their inventory to the fleet and rental market yet they are struggling at a certain level as well. The diehard fans (all two of them) may not like that but that is the simple fact, regardless of the endless excuses they give. That is all I'm going to say about it because I have a 44th to celebrate today and it's time to jam out in the garage today!

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
5 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

So you do agree with me, it's not normal.

Great.

Now, what should we expect the brand you defend so feverishly to do....Budget call or Fire Sale?

I'm not Mary Barra and that is a false dichotomy.   It sounds like GM is taking the steps it needs to in order to quell the inventory surge.  If it works it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. 

The net situation is this... people at both companies (and apparently FCA) overestimated sales of certain segments for this year.  One company is dumping vehicles into rental fleets, the other is shutting down plants to avoid increasing incentives and avoid an increase of low profit sales to rental fleets.  I would argue that avoiding incentives and rental fleets is probably the better long term plan because it helps keep residuals higher.... but I'm not a finance guy at either company so I couldn't be sure which is the better solution.

Each company may be using the best solution for themselves. One size does not fit all. 

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ccap41    1,235
30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, best selling truck (on it's second idle in two months btw) vs declining sedan and coupe sales. I'll let you be the judge of which one is more surprising here and which one comes equipped with more excuses apparently.

 

And just so we are clear here, it should be concerning to GM to have those models on the lots that long so I am not pretending like there isn't an issue there. However, it is fair play to levy equal criticism at Ford, given that they spent the first nine months fire selling more than 30% of their inventory to the fleet and rental market yet they are struggling at a certain level as well. The diehard fans (all two of them) may not like that but that is the simple fact, regardless of the endless excuses they give. That is all I'm going to say about it because I have a 44th to celebrate today and it's time to jam out in the garage today!

I think it's ignorant to think idling a few plants for a total of only a few weeks out of the year(maybe a month if you total all of the time for each plant combined) for either company is a bad thing. Like it's been mentioned already(I think in a different thread) it's good that they have the luxury to be able to idle a plant and control your inventory rather than being forced to produce inventory with nowhere for it to go. It also isn't like these plants weren't working 3 shifts at one point either so I think both companies need to work on their projections better because they were paying OT(or paying to train a 3rd shift - wasted money regardless) for awhile and now idling. That's poor management for both of them. They should have trimmed shifts sooner.

Best selling truck idling...and still best selling truck.. so what?

YTD(through Nov. 2016)

F-Series: Up 5.5%

Silverado: Down 3.2%

Sierra: Up 0.9%

Ram: Up 8.1%

I don't think Ford is worried about idling a plant to control their supply/demand when they still have very good numbers on the year. Explain how THAT is a bad thing.

Ps. HAPPY 44TH!

Edited by ccap41
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surreal1272    770
11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think it's ignorant to think idling a few plants for a total of only a few weeks out of the year(maybe a month if you total all of the time for each plant combined) for either company is a bad thing. Like it's been mentioned already(I think in a different thread) it's good that they have the luxury to be able to idle a plant and control your inventory rather than being forced to produce inventory with nowhere for it to go. It also isn't like these plants weren't working 3 shifts at one point either so I think both companies need to work on their projections better because they were paying OT(or paying to train a 3rd shift - wasted money regardless) for awhile and now idling. That's poor management for both of them. They should have trimmed shifts sooner.

Best selling truck idling...and still best selling truck.. so what?

YTD(through Nov. 2016)

F-Series: Up 5.5%

Silverado: Down 3.2%

Sierra: Up 0.9%

Ram: Up 8.1%

I don't think Ford is worried about idling a plant to control their supply/demand when they still have very good numbers on the year. Explain how THAT is a bad thing.

Ps. HAPPY 44TH!

You kind of missed my point about the trucks but no worries. And yes, I agree that it really isn't that big of a deal yet some here like to spend a disproportionate amount of attention on the ones whom they are not beholden to, so I am simply presenting the other side of the coin and equalizing things a bit. I don't give two squats what they think about it either because they will never change their minds anyway. 

 

And thanks for the B-Day wishes. Jamming it out really old school right now (and probably pissing off some neighbors in the process lol). 

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Wings4Life(BANNED)    1,000,000
58 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm not Mary Barra and that is a false dichotomy.   It sounds like GM is taking the steps it needs to in order to quell the inventory surge.  If it works it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. 

The net situation is this... people at both companies (and apparently FCA) overestimated sales of certain segments for this year.  One company is dumping vehicles into rental fleets, the other is shutting down plants to avoid increasing incentives and avoid an increase of low profit sales to rental fleets.  I would argue that avoiding incentives and rental fleets is probably the better long term plan because it helps keep residuals higher.... but I'm not a finance guy at either company so I couldn't be sure which is the better solution.

Each company may be using the best solution for themselves. One size does not fit all. 

So Ford is dumping to rental fleet and GM is being cautious and not.

Except that GM is the one doing the 'dumping' recently, with 27% increased just last month.  I think we can expect that to continue, has been my only point. 

https://www.gm.com/investors/sales/us-sales-production.html

Edited by Wings4Life

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TaurusSHO    25

All this talk about incentives... it's worth noting that GM has higher incentives than Ford on average.

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hyperv6    774

The way I see this you can shut the plant for a month or you can do it a week at a time over several months.

1 Month = several 1 week shut downs.  It is all the same. Depending on how they are structured with supplied and maintenance it could be more cost effective for GM to do their time all at once then during several shorter shutdowns.

The reality is the market is slowing and it has been predicted to do so. There was no way to put a day or time on it but they knew it would come. Now they will play the adjustment game to keep inventories where they need to be. 

Ford and GM both are in good shape but many others are going to struggle. If the economy remains as it is or gets better things will be ok. If there is a world crises or other issues we may see some companies feel some real problems.

Either way I would not make a big issue out of the GM and Ford shut downs to this point. Now if both are sitting on a several months of cars in August then I would worry.

2 minutes ago, TaurusSHO said:

All this talk about incentives... it's worth noting that GM has higher incentives than Ford on average.

It is worth noting GM has a higher ATP on many models and more room to give more incentives.  In the end they both have shown good profits. This point is like the shut downs much about nothing as the end profit determines the outcome and both are doing well.

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TaurusSHO    25
33 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

The way I see this you can shut the plant for a month or you can do it a week at a time over several months.

1 Month = several 1 week shut downs.  It is all the same. Depending on how they are structured with supplied and maintenance it could be more cost effective for GM to do their time all at once then during several shorter shutdowns.

The reality is the market is slowing and it has been predicted to do so. There was no way to put a day or time on it but they knew it would come. Now they will play the adjustment game to keep inventories where they need to be. 

Ford and GM both are in good shape but many others are going to struggle. If the economy remains as it is or gets better things will be ok. If there is a world crises or other issues we may see some companies feel some real problems.

Either way I would not make a big issue out of the GM and Ford shut downs to this point. Now if both are sitting on a several months of cars in August then I would worry.

It is worth noting GM has a higher ATP on many models and more room to give more incentives.  In the end they both have shown good profits. This point is like the shut downs much about nothing as the end profit determines the outcome and both are doing well.

Oh I agree completely.  I was only pointing out that even though some are saying GM is shutting down plants to enhance profits while Ford throws more incentives on the hood, GM actually has higher incentives.  Both will be solid through any potential economic downturn.  It's just something for fanboys/trolls on both sides to beat their chests about. 

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surreal1272    770
2 hours ago, TaurusSHO said:

All this talk about incentives... it's worth noting that GM has higher incentives than Ford on average.

For the first nine months of the year, they didn't. Feel free to look that up. The higher ATPs also back that up. 

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