indiana Indiana Slaps new fee on EV's.

[ccap41]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

and no crippling debt?  How unamerican!

Oh he's not born American? That's why he's got two bachelors degrees without debt.

Or assume the work he did there didn't pay for it along with his academic and athletic scholarships in which you have to work your ass off for. 

If he was born in America he would have expected handouts and bitched when he didn't get them. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ccap41 said:

Or assume the work he did there didn't pay for it along with his academic and athletic scholarships in which you have to work your ass off for. 

If he was born in America he would have expected handouts and bitched when he didn't get them. 

Not necessarily handouts, but there is no more working while going to school and coming out of school debt free anymore.  It doesn't exist without some sort of handout in the form of scholarship or grant money.  

My parents could work while they went through school and still afford to rent a small place in Philly and come out of it mostly debt free. They bought a house, raised two kids, mom stayed home till we were 8 and 10 respectively, then went back to nursing and they paid off the house in 15 years. 

The difference is, it could be done back then. It can't now.  You can't get a University of Pennsylvania Nursing degree, rent a small apartment in philly, work part time, and come out of that debt free anymore.  It's impossible. 

And that is the situation faced by so many people these days... they don't want a handout, but they do want a fair shot without having oppressive debt for the next 40 years.  In most cities, the cost of decent housing has skyrocketed out of the reach of most people so that the only places they can afford are hours outside of where the jobs are. 

The system is rigged by those who have money against those who don't already have money. It's only going to get worse. 

[David]

Very True, I put myself through College while working full time and very little help from my parents. Amounted to living at home rent free and eating dinner with them when I could. 

I put my two kids and wife through college and am paying it off, just a few more years left. I will agree with Drew, College has become a profit center which favors the rich and screws the rest unless your a minority and can get them to pay it all for you.

Sadly, being white and making too just enough money over their so called income line kept me from being able to take advantage of any perks to reduce the cost of college. 12 years straight and two kids and wife all with Bachelor degrees and eventually I will come out ahead but tough doing.

Over all I stand by my statement of Minimum wage is very much needed for teens. That should NOT be a living wage.

BACK ON TOPIC

What do people think of the Tax Per mile?

?????????????

[Drew Dowdell]

11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

What do people think of the Tax Per mile?

?????????????

It would probably also need to be weight based somehow.  Why would a Fiesta pay the same tax per mile as a F-250?

[David]

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It would probably also need to be weight based somehow.  Why would a Fiesta pay the same tax per mile as a F-250?

So then should it be broken down by weight class.

Amazing is the listing of State weight fees. For auto's depending on state, they are no extra fees up to 4000 to 8000lbs, after that, depending on if it is a regular auto or class C they have various fees up to 300,000lbs in some cases. Most states seem to top out between 40,000 and 80,000.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hwytaxes/2001/pt11.htm

In thinking about this, I would agree an Auto regardless of class over 6000lbs does put more wear on the roads than under that.

0-6000 lbs

6000 - 12,000 lbs

12,001 - 40,000 lbs

40,001 - above lbs.

I can see this as a fare weight class with no added fees for the first class, 1/3 of a cent for the second, 2/3rds of a cent for the third class and a full 1 cent added cost to the fourth and final weight class.

[oldshurst442]

Tax per mile?

 

I dont like that idea.

That means that somebody needs to know how many miles I do per year.

That means somebody needs to track me and my movements.

Although Im a fairly honest man and I have nothing to hide, the idea of having a tracker of some sort makes me cringe and cry for the yet another freedom lost.

The freedom of nobody knowing what the hell it is that Im doing.

I like to think that Im free to roam anywhere I damn well please without anybody recording my every move.

Its bad enough that cities all over the world have  CCTV cameras with business security cameras. I dont need yet another recording device in my so-call free life I live in the free 1st world...

[balthazar]

At some point, such 'tracking' will be hardwired into the car's system and uploaded after every operation.
Going to start looking for a clean P-64, have it gone thru mechanically, equip it with a OD unit, 60 secs and the odometer is disconnected... 
and there it'll be; 'invisible' in plain sight.

What about duallys - same weight as SRW trucks but 50% lower PSI on the road surface.
And so it begins.   

[hyperv6]

10 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Promote from within?!  That's a laugh.

Why laugh? That is what takes place at my work and many other companies. My fathers company moved people from entry level and moved them up. 

Today like at our company people take an entry level job to get their foot in the door and with their qualification and know work record they are moved up. You are still expected to have qualifications but the work experience and record with them often give you an advantage. 

Even my wife's work does the same. She started as a Student assistant. She continued from High School and got a degree in education. Found few schools hiring and a lot of messy union issues so she stayed. Today she is a manger with a masters degree. When we got married we did what we could to advance her degree. Now she is in line to where she can take over all the branches and be over all the managers. 

That is the way it works. Even my friends have done the same at their work. If they did not move up inside they took their experience and work record to other jobs and leveraged it for a better job. 
 

With all your pessimism how do you get up in the Morning? You really need to stop taking the narrative some put out and believing it all.  So many on the far left and right are so full of BS and there is no need to believe their scare tactics. 

[balthazar]

I started in a very entry-level position out of college with my one employer and by the time I left I was 1 notch below VP and running over half of the company's revenue & half the company's employees were reporting to me. In the process, I moved higher than people in the same department who were there longer than I.  

My wife has done the same, she'd transitioned thru numerous jobs & departments within her company over many years, always moving upward, and is officially a VP (tho there are many with that title). She has an excellent job in a huge financial company.

This trajectory happens every day… but it takes dedication, value & hard work. Not everyone can bring that to the table, of course.

 

[David]

11 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Tax per mile?

 

I dont like that idea.

That means that somebody needs to know how many miles I do per year.

That means somebody needs to track me and my movements.

Although Im a fairly honest man and I have nothing to hide, the idea of having a tracker of some sort makes me cringe and cry for the yet another freedom lost.

The freedom of nobody knowing what the hell it is that Im doing.

I like to think that Im free to roam anywhere I damn well please without anybody recording my every move.

Its bad enough that cities all over the world have  CCTV cameras with business security cameras. I dont need yet another recording device in my so-call free life I live in the free 1st world...

I can see your concern if it was GPS based, but here in washington I have volunteered to test out the tax per mile and all it is is them reading your computer for the miles recorded driven, that gives them nothing of where you have gone or done.

I see nothing wrong with a Tax per mile and each year your odometer is read.

[ccap41]

18 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I can see your concern if it was GPS based, but here in washington I have volunteered to test out the tax per mile and all it is is them reading your computer for the miles recorded driven, that gives them nothing of where you have gone or done.

I see nothing wrong with a Tax per mile and each year your odometer is read.

That's what I assumed you meant by tax per mile. Somebody literally looking at your odometer. T

This will lead to people finding ways to stop an odometer from working or screwing with the numbers though.. but there are always people who will try and beat the system.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Why laugh? That is what takes place at my work and many other companies. My fathers company moved people from entry level and moved them up. 

Today like at our company people take an entry level job to get their foot in the door and with their qualification and know work record they are moved up. You are still expected to have qualifications but the work experience and record with them often give you an advantage. 

Even my wife's work does the same. She started as a Student assistant. She continued from High School and got a degree in education. Found few schools hiring and a lot of messy union issues so she stayed. Today she is a manger with a masters degree. When we got married we did what we could to advance her degree. Now she is in line to where she can take over all the branches and be over all the managers. 

That is the way it works. Even my friends have done the same at their work. If they did not move up inside they took their experience and work record to other jobs and leveraged it for a better job. 
 

With all your pessimism how do you get up in the Morning? You really need to stop taking the narrative some put out and believing it all.  So many on the far left and right are so full of BS and there is no need to believe their scare tactics. 

I've worked for the same company for over 10 years. I've survived 5+ mergers and I don't even know how many downsizings.... they just announced another round of downsizing again, yet I've been marked exempt from the get-go..... so I must be doing something right.  I break my back for this company. People know me as reliable and very knowledgable about our internal I.T. structure. People know that if I don't know the answer, I know who talk to to get the answer. (Why do I say this? I just had my year end review and it was brought up). I spend 90% of my job fighting just to be able to do the right thing and 10% of it actually working. 

Yet in that 10 years, I've had 1 minor promotion and 1 big promotion. There is a common joke at the company that the only way to really get promoted is to quit and go work somewhere else for 6 months then get hired back, largely because it's happened so many times. 

To answer your final question, it's my optimism for my own future away from this company as I build one of my own.  As negative as I seem about my employer, and while I still have my eye on the exit, my work ethic dictates that I still bust my ass for them every day. 2017 will hopefully be the year I can finally break free from them. 

[David]

I agree with Drew, some of us work damn hard and rarely get promoted and yet we survive merges, downsizing, up-sizing and seem to never get promoted. I also due to the work ethic my parents instilled in me will never do anything but 100%+ effort. I eventually will find my true calling that allows me to work for myself and achieve my wealth desire.

Desire to work hard, make society better and grow can make even those of us who have been screwed by others a far more optimist than many others who get beat up once and quite.

I have found that most of my growth has come from moving onto new startups and taking on new challenges than from promotions and I admit, I do not play politics well so that will always be a hurtful thing to my career since many others that do next to nothing but can kiss ass so well end up promoted even with their stinky brown lips.

[oldshurst442]

@dfelt@ccap41

Somebody will always try to beat the system...that is soooo true!

EXACTLY...that is why in turn, a recorded GPS system will eventually replace the honour system way of someone recording only the miles.

And, if I was a politician, Id be a shrewd politician and I woulkd just go the GPS way right off the bat...

 Eliminates cheating from the get go and saves money as the GPS downloads IMMEDIATELY the EXACTITUDE of mileage one does with a touch of a button without any other human intervention eliminating an unnecessary wage in the process.

We already do taxes online... a 2016 model car is already plugged into the internet with GPS capabilities through google maps and other such shyte with our fetishes of 55 inch screens in our cars and our iPhones....

Its a no brainer...

 

So...no thanx for me and the tax per mile.

And...just to say...I live 6 miles away from my restaurant. 12 miles per day I travel. Not a whole lot. So it be an advantage for me...

I value my privacy a tad more.

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by oldshurst442

[hyperv6]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I've worked for the same company for over 10 years. I've survived 5+ mergers and I don't even know how many downsizings.... they just announced another round of downsizing again, yet I've been marked exempt from the get-go..... so I must be doing something right.  I break my back for this company. People know me as reliable and very knowledgable about our internal I.T. structure. People know that if I don't know the answer, I know who talk to to get the answer. (Why do I say this? I just had my year end review and it was brought up). I spend 90% of my job fighting just to be able to do the right thing and 10% of it actually working. 

Yet in that 10 years, I've had 1 minor promotion and 1 big promotion. There is a common joke at the company that the only way to really get promoted is to quit and go work somewhere else for 6 months then get hired back, largely because it's happened so many times. 

To answer your final question, it's my optimism for my own future away from this company as I build one of my own.  As negative as I seem about my employer, and while I still have my eye on the exit, my work ethic dictates that I still bust my ass for them every day. 2017 will hopefully be the year I can finally break free from them. 

You can work hard and survive or you can thrive.

Just because you work hard is only one part and you have to put yourself in a position to move up. Often that means you have to move on.

I worked for a company that was family owned. It was a good company and we did specialized work. I worked my ass off and did ok. But being it was a company with little opportunity of growth I had to make a move. Working for a family is never going to get you in charge of anything. Also it was a old school company that did not go out and sell business. For years people came to them but the market had changed and we no longer were leading edge. It was to the point I was going to need to make move to improve my place in life or wait for the company to slowly die.

I am now at a company that I never imaged would grow as fast as it has. We are leading edge in the market and advancing all the time. While privately owned we are set up as a Cooperation and no family runs the business. I arrived at the right time here. I put in my time here with lots of nights and over time but now have a awesome job and have gotten to travel and meet many people in the auto industry I would never have met. I was here long enough go where management knows me on sight and I plan to be here as long as they will have me.

It was luck that I got in here but I had to make the opportunity to create the luck.

I first went to another company before here and got laid off after 30 days. They told me they liked me and would call me back in 6 months but I was not going to wait for that. It also was a union job and it was a miserable place to work. The jobs are gone and the building is now a mega church of all things.

I had though I made a bad decision but in the end getting laid off was what got me where I am today.

Are there higher paying jobs. Sure. Are there some days I get frustrated yes but in the big picture I make a good living, I have many opportunities. and we arte growing at a rate much higher than most business. We are truly a global business now.

No one is going to give you anything in life. No one is owed anything. You have to do what you can by working hard and look and make your opportunities. You will have failures but you will more often have successes if you keep at it.

The most successful people I know are generally self made. They keep at it till they succeed and do not wait for anyone else to bail them out. Every successful person has a raft of success and failure. If you do not fail you are not trying. Just look at all the failures Edison had vs. the number of successes.

You have two choices in life. You can sit and bitch or you can go out and do something about it. You do not have to spend a ton of  money at Yale to get ahead. Also network out and often the connections you make lead to opportunity.

Make your own luck.

Today too many sit back and expect things to come to them but only so much will. You need to look for the open door often to get ahead.

I can say my story is one of may examples of success. Look to others and how they got to where they are and learn from them. We have a society today that wants to ridicule the successful or wealthy. We should in truth study them and learn from them. Most have used legal and ethical paths to their success and they have much they can teach us. Yet many want to make them a villain and are just jealous of what they have vs. trying to duplicate some of that they did to get there.

While many say the rich are greedy. The envy of them by those who are poor is often a much greater sin.

We are all born the same way cold a naked and there is no limits to what you can do in life if you want it bad enough. The only limits are those we put on ourselves.

 

Now here is where Tony Robbins get you to walk on the hot coals lol!

Seriously Drew if you do not feel you are getting a fair shake where you are you need to look around. Opportunity is out there and you can find it on your terms. If you have the work etic you said companies would kill for that. If you have skill needs for a specific place take the time and money to do it. You do not need a big school and you can get it many places even more reasonable at a State Collage.

Making that move is not easy trust me. Also it may lead to a series of moved like it did for me but in the end it works out.  

Edited January 17, 2017 by hyperv6

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yet in that 10 years, I've had 1 minor promotion and 1 big promotion. There is a common joke at the company that the only way to really get promoted is to quit and go work somewhere else for 6 months then get hired back, largely because it's happened so many times. 

This sounds like it a problem with your company more so than with every company. If it's that bad, why haven't you looked elsewhere? It sounds like you have the credentials to move on.

I know there are a ton of places for me to advance at the company that I'm at now. They're helping pay for school as I finish and countless departments I could transfer to if I didn't like my managers directly above me and move up from there if I so choose to(which, why not?)

[Drew Dowdell]

I am moving on. I'm just not going to another Corporate America job. But even then, when you are trying to put other goals in place, corporate america can suck the life out of you. @Cubical-aka-Moltar knows what it's like. 

As far as the promotion thing is concerned. I'm not a kiss-ass. I don't suck up to management. I'm not into office politics at.all.  In my observation, it is those people who get promoted regardless of, and sometimes in spite of, their skills and competence. 

This also isn't my first time at the rodeo.... all of my other corporate jobs have been like this, though obviously for not as long.

I come from a line of at least 4 generations of entrepreneurs. It's time to make it a 5th generation... full time.

[hyperv6]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I am moving on. I'm just not going to another Corporate America job. But even then, when you are trying to put other goals in place, corporate america can suck the life out of you. @Cubical-aka-Moltar knows what it's like. 

As far as the promotion thing is concerned. I'm not a kiss-ass. I don't suck up to management. I'm not into office politics at.all.  In my observation, it is those people who get promoted regardless of, and sometimes in spite of, their skills and competence. 

This also isn't my first time at the rodeo.... all of my other corporate jobs have been like this, though obviously for not as long.

I come from a line of at least 4 generations of entrepreneurs. It's time to make it a 5th generation... full time.

Some lines of work are for some and not for others. It amounts to what you want out of life.

As for promotions. It is not always kiss up and suck up everywhere. If the politics are dense then move on. No one is holding a gun on you there. Making change is hard but if you want to get ahead there are times you need to make the tough call.

I have a friend that is a companies dream. She makes little and is forced to make a long drive. She could do so much better but she is happy. Her expectations are met. But it is only her own ideas that limit here.

In this country opportunity is everywhere and it is a matter of how bad you want it and how much effort you are willing to put in.

the key is to identify a company if it is a career killer or not. The one I had family run has little future. The Union one was limited. The one I turned down for the one where I am at now was very dysfunctional. It may have been a good opportunity but the interview process and indecision told me to keep away.

Even working for yourself is not for everyone. So many people are just not disciplined to do that. So many want to work at home and they could never pull it off and would starve to death. They are the same ones now that use up all their comp time by Feb on playing Video games at home and calling off. I have lost a guy for this. He was married and had kids but would call off and play games.

The right thing for most is out there and you will not get it on the first try. It is a matter of chasing it down and taking it.

[David]

5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

@dfelt@ccap41

Somebody will always try to beat the system...that is soooo true!

EXACTLY...that is why in turn, a recorded GPS system will eventually replace the honour system way of someone recording only the miles.

And, if I was a politician, Id be a shrewd politician and I woulkd just go the GPS way right off the bat...

 Eliminates cheating from the get go and saves money as the GPS downloads IMMEDIATELY the EXACTITUDE of mileage one does with a touch of a button without any other human intervention eliminating an unnecessary wage in the process.

We already do taxes online... a 2016 model car is already plugged into the internet with GPS capabilities through google maps and other such shyte with our fetishes of 55 inch screens in our cars and our iPhones....

Its a no brainer...

 

So...no thanx for me and the tax per mile.

And...just to say...I live 6 miles away from my restaurant. 12 miles per day I travel. Not a whole lot. So it be an advantage for me...

I value my privacy a tad more.

 

In the US, most states have either emission testing that is done or safety check before you can renew your license. This would be the time to record the odometer. Unless they go GPS module that is also installed in older auto's, they will only ever have my Odometer to check my miles in my 94 Suburban.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I am moving on. I'm just not going to another Corporate America job. But even then, when you are trying to put other goals in place, corporate america can suck the life out of you. @Cubical-aka-Moltar knows what it's like. 

As far as the promotion thing is concerned. I'm not a kiss-ass. I don't suck up to management. I'm not into office politics at.all.  In my observation, it is those people who get promoted regardless of, and sometimes in spite of, their skills and competence. 

This also isn't my first time at the rodeo.... all of my other corporate jobs have been like this, though obviously for not as long.

I come from a line of at least 4 generations of entrepreneurs. It's time to make it a 5th generation... full time.

So true Drew, I hate and do not play the suck up game of Office Politics. I have come to accept it, I make a solid good income and still working on a way to make my own company dream come true.

[balthazar]

I'm not aware of any automotive laws that have retro-actively affected original equipment. IE: mandating GPD transmitters in vehicles that were built without them.

Here in Jersey, I may never see an inspection station again- only checking emissions here, but not for diesels.

[frogger]

I was promoted  in to the higher end of IT management somehow, but hated it.. the politics, the yes men, the talking about staff like they were lemmings, lack of hands on time doing what I actually enjoyed.  I quit and found a lower paying job where I could once again enjoy being hands on, troubleshooting, setting up environments, database development etc.  i dont sacrifice my personal life and health any more  like i did in my twenties and early thirties just to make up for a lack of resources and make the shareholders bank accounts larger.

 

[David]

 According to a recent Forbes story more states are now charging additional fees for EV auto's.

As you know Indiana has their $150 annual fee for EV's.

Now add the following to the list:

Georgia has started a $200 annual fee.

Idaho has a $100 annual fee.

Michigan has a $30 annual fee.

Wyoming ch 

[Scout]

On 1/16/2017 at 7:05 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

It would probably also need to be weight based somehow.  Why would a Fiesta pay the same tax per mile as a F-250?

We already pay a tax per mile. It's the gas tax. The more you drive the more gas you buy, therefore you pay more tax because of driving more miles. There is also a sort of weight based tax already. I'm sure the Fiesta uses far less gas than an F-250. Therefore is paying less taxes. Not to mention the weight fees already imposed on many truck owners through registration. 

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

 According to a recent Forbes story more states are now charging additional fees for EV auto's.

As you know Indiana has their $150 annual fee for EV's.

Now add the following to the list:

Georgia has started a $200 annual fee.

Idaho has a $100 annual fee.

Michigan has a $30 annual fee.

Wyoming ch 

What are these fees over a non-EV vehicle though? Like that Indiana one is only 30-40 more than the fees for everybody else.

Your wording makes it sound like they're all paying $150 more for their EV(Indiana example).

[oldshurst442]

6 hours ago, Scout said:

We already pay a tax per mile. It's the gas tax. The more you drive the more gas you buy, therefore you pay more tax because of driving more miles. There is also a sort of weight based tax already. I'm sure the Fiesta uses far less gas than an F-250. Therefore is paying less taxes. Not to mention the weight fees already imposed on many truck owners through registration. 

Very true.

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

7 hours ago, Scout said:

We already pay a tax per mile. It's the gas tax. The more you drive the more gas you buy, therefore you pay more tax because of driving more miles. There is also a sort of weight based tax already. I'm sure the Fiesta uses far less gas than an F-250. Therefore is paying less taxes. Not to mention the weight fees already imposed on many truck owners through registration. 

I understand that. We're talking about EVs and Hybrids that screw up the math by no longer buying gas.

[balthazar]

I think I'm uncomfortable with Big Gov't being in such close collusion with Big Oil that they're obsessively addicted to getting their cut.

- - - - -

Let's take a hard look at the math, shall we?
At this point we are really talking -budgetarily- less than a single penny.  

There were 115,000 EVs sold in the U.S. in 2015 (out of 17.3 million vehicles).
115,000 x 12,000 miles/yr = 1,380,000,000 miles driven. With 4.12 million miles of road in the U.S., that means all the 2015 EVs combined annual miles driven only covers 1 mile out of every 3 miles of road TOTAL. 

In other words, mark off a 3 mile stretch of a nearby highway. Run 1 Chevy Volt 1 mile down that 3-mile stretch 1 time in 1 year. That's your infrastructure wear from a 2015 EV in the U.S. 

If we can pick an equivalent MPG of 25, that means 55,200,000 gals of gas were NOT purchased.
The federal gas tax is 18 cents per gal, or $10,156,800. That's a single modest 2-lane bridge replacement, if we're lucky.
Fed took in $41 Billion in fuel tax in 2013.

I am AMAZED Gov't even knows that penny is "missing". It's not because their project budgets/contracts are that stringently reviewed… it's just a 'new thing' Big Gov't can tax. That's their chief purpose- generating revenue streams (and protecting/augmenting them). That, and issuing 'reasons' they 'need' to justify yet another tax.
 

[Suaviloquent]

Oh yes, that argument, fully agree. More revenue is always better for government, because like most entities, government has its own vested interests, one to remain in power, and two to maintain the authority to levie a tax. And what better way to do both, by leving a new tax.

 

Problem is, yes, EVs are like nothing in terms of road wear. So really, anyone buying is someone who might just be indifferent to this new fee. There's dead set. $150 a year is nothing to the average Tesla owner. Even Bolt owners, most will be two car households, with either to Bolt primary but conventional auto as backup, or the Bolt as the city roundabout that you only charge once a month instead of twice a month... YEAH.

[Suaviloquent]

Oh yes, that argument, fully agree. More revenue is always better for government, because like most entities, government has its own vested interests, one to remain in power, and two to maintain the authority to levie a tax. And what better way to do both, by leving a new tax.

 

Problem is, yes, EVs are like nothing in terms of road wear. So really, anyone buying is someone who might just be indifferent to this new fee. There's dead set. $150 a year is nothing to the average Tesla owner. Even Bolt owners, most will be two car households, with either to Bolt primary but conventional auto as backup, or the Bolt as the city roundabout that you only charge once a month instead of twice a month... YEAH.

 

ALSO, SORRY TO DERAIL, BUT YEAH, I know what it feels like to be fiscally responsible, heck my dad says I am an even worse scrooge than him. But, like when I do spend, I get the good stuff. My work boots are from Canada (government gave me a free grant, and I was allowed to use the full amount they gave me so, I said, why not plow some other taxpater's money back into Canada?)...and I bought a shit ton of made in America socks. Damn they are so much better, seriously, I didn't think it would be the case, but you learn that AFTER they are washed the second time, the American socks held up like new, the non domestic import socks I used to buy would wither and get all linty after the second time being washed....

 

Dammit, I did get out of school debt free, but it also meant I missed out so much keeping my head down and just going with it. At this point, being debt free, paying any other debt lump sum, and having an absurdly stupid credit limit for the emergency where that kind of expenditure might be neccessary is NICE . But it also came at a pretty heavy cost, and I still have to get around with dealing with that part....

 

OKEY, DERAIL NO MORE. Carry on

 

[hyperv6]

What many miss here is that out economy is based on oil. 

The currency of the worlds has since the early 70's been oil based not gold based. We must not forget this. 

Not only is the government concerned about lost tax revenue but also the value of oil and out ability to control the price of oil. Economies can be build and destroyed on the price of oil and who ever can control it. 

The two keys to control it is supply and demand. That is why pipe lines and fracking are important here and how much we need to use. 

So many people have no clue of the back story on this or an understanding of how things are trying to be control. The country that has little or no say in this will be the big looser. Right now it is a 6 way tug of war and it will only continue to sway to and fro. 

[David]

2 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

What many miss here is that out economy is based on oil. 

The currency of the worlds has since the early 70's been oil based not gold based. We must not forget this. 

Not only is the government concerned about lost tax revenue but also the value of oil and out ability to control the price of oil. Economies can be build and destroyed on the price of oil and who ever can control it. 

The two keys to control it is supply and demand. That is why pipe lines and fracking are important here and how much we need to use. 

So many people have no clue of the back story on this or an understanding of how things are trying to be control. The country that has little or no say in this will be the big looser. Right now it is a 6 way tug of war and it will only continue to sway to and fro. 

I get what you say and why I love EV's, the best way to BREAK the back of BIG OIL and their stupid Billions they get in R&D grants while making 100's of billions in profit by screwing over the little guy.

Time to change things up, sadly we are on DUMB & DUMBER Inauguration day!

[hyperv6]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

I get what you say and why I love EV's, the best way to BREAK the back of BIG OIL and their stupid Billions they get in R&D grants while making 100's of billions in profit by screwing over the little guy.

Time to change things up, sadly we are on DUMB & DUMBER Inauguration day!

You missed the point all together.

You are not going to break Oil nor do you really want to as being independent is only a part of this but also controlling production and need help control the prices and can give the dollar an advantage in controlling its value.

Get the value of the dollar too low it kills the economy. Get it too high and it hurts the economy. You must regulate it and you must do so to control most global currency.

As of now the Dollar is seen as the dominate currency. We must keep that as China works to try to get others to use their currency. The Russian economy is based on oil but they do not control the value hence their major move back to the middle east with aggression.

We will never eliminate all the all nor do we. The country that controls the production and the supplied controls the value of their money. This is important to the dollar.

Just by making wind mills and electric cars changes little. This is so much bigger than any of these little things.

This is why fracking is important, drilling is important and pipe lines are important. This gives us better control to the world supply and killing oil prices overseas to protect the dollar.

Actually the man up for Sec State is really a very shrewd move as who better can control Russia than someone who knows their oil and gas better than him. Sure the lefts talking points are all over the place but really study what this man has done and what he has dealt with and it makes sense. His integrity is also much more than many want you to believe in their false talking points.

We have hurt the Russians and Iranians by killing oil prices. Saudi's have been doing this too since they fear an invasion of Iranian radicals.

The real trouble is so few really understand how Saudia Arabia works as it is not like anywhere else in the world. It is a country of a Family divided. They pay their people to keep them from joining the radicals. 

The bottom line is Oil rules and will continue to rule as it Is needed for industry because so many products can not be made with out it.

So many people are so ill informed on how the world and economy works.  

When you come down to it Oil is how you manipulate your currency anymore legally. It is a tool to control it.

I get the feeling the new Sec State may be our ace in the hole as he knows the market and players better than anyone. He is one of those our government has used to control value of the dollar. He is someone who knows all of the weak spots in the Russian economy and they know it.

[David]

4 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

You missed the point all together.

You are not going to break Oil nor do you really want to as being independent is only a part of this but also controlling production and need help control the prices and can give the dollar an advantage in controlling its value.

Get the value of the dollar too low it kills the economy. Get it too high and it hurts the economy. You must regulate it and you must do so to control most global currency.

As of now the Dollar is seen as the dominate currency. We must keep that as China works to try to get others to use their currency. The Russian economy is based on oil but they do not control the value hence their major move back to the middle east with aggression.

We will never eliminate all the all nor do we. The country that controls the production and the supplied controls the value of their money. This is important to the dollar.

Just by making wind mills and electric cars changes little. This is so much bigger than any of these little things.

This is why fracking is important, drilling is important and pipe lines are important. This gives us better control to the world supply and killing oil prices overseas to protect the dollar.

Actually the man up for Sec State is really a very shrewd move as who better can control Russia than someone who knows their oil and gas better than him. Sure the lefts talking points are all over the place but really study what this man has done and what he has dealt with and it makes sense. His integrity is also much more than many want you to believe in their false talking points.

We have hurt the Russians and Iranians by killing oil prices. Saudi's have been doing this too since they fear an invasion of Iranian radicals.

The real trouble is so few really understand how Saudia Arabia works as it is not like anywhere else in the world. It is a country of a Family divided. They pay their people to keep them from joining the radicals. 

The bottom line is Oil rules and will continue to rule as it Is needed for industry because so many products can not be made with out it.

So many people are so ill informed on how the world and economy works.  

When you come down to it Oil is how you manipulate your currency anymore legally. It is a tool to control it.

I get the feeling the new Sec State may be our ace in the hole as he knows the market and players better than anyone. He is one of those our government has used to control value of the dollar. He is someone who knows all of the weak spots in the Russian economy and they know it.

I get what you are saying and yes many products require Oil to be made. Still pissed with the Oil companies but I do get the point your making about pricing for Oil and currency manipulation.

Still do not like it, but understand it. 

[hyperv6]

Got Ya!