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William Maley

Mazda News: Rumorpile: Mazda To Launch HCCI Engine For 2018 Mazda3

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Homogeneous charge compression ignition or HCCI engines are a unique prospect - use compression to ignite gasoline, like in a diesel vehicle. This allows for better fuel economy and lower emissions. A number of automakers have built prototypes and said they would be putting them into production down the road, but it has never happened. That may change in the near future.

The Nikkei Asian Review reports that Mazda will be launching an HCCI engine for the 2018 Mazda3 (Axela in Japan). This will be part of Mazda's second-generation of SkyActiv technologies to improve fuel economy. According to the report, the engine could give certain Mazda3 models a fuel economy figure of 30 kilometers per liter (about 71 mpg on the U.S. cycle). The report doesn't say if this is for city, highway, or combined.

Can Mazda do it or will it be like the others and not appear? We'll be watching to find out that answer.

Source: Nikkei Asian Review


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Wow!   Congrats on Mazda if they can make this work.  GM was working pretty hard on it pre-bankruptcy, but I guess development got tossed during that unpleasantness. 

Furthermore... this is what will doom diesel.  Diesel like fuel economy with gasoline engine power characteristics with gasoline level exhaust emissions.

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Wishing Mazda all the best, their Diesel sure did not work out for them.

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21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Wishing Mazda all the best, their Diesel sure did not work out for them.

The diesel isn't out yet.

 

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3 minutes ago, William Maley said:

The diesel isn't out yet.

I am talking about the mess they had when they launched it in Europe and then pretty much had to stop everything to work on issues and with multiple missed dates of when it was coming to the US. I doubt it will really show up.

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Really wanting them to be successful with this. If they have a wide range of being able to do this, awesome, if not, hopefully they have 8-10Speed auto's to make the best use of that range.

also, if it really is 70mpg.... i bet it would be on a "suburban" test. 30% better than what our "highway" figure is is ~52mpg.

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1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Wishing Mazda all the best, their Diesel sure did not work out for them.

That's a different unit than what we're getting in the States.

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A number of other outlets are reporting that this engine will not have spark plugs at all....... I highly highly doubt that to be the case. HCCI has such a narrow range of being able to run effectively that you would never want to run it as a standard automotive engine.  I could see running a "pure" HCCI engine as a regenerator for an EV where the gasoline engine is never connected to the wheels, but even then the cold starts would probably be pretty rough. 

Most likely, this engine will still have spark plugs. It will use the spark plugs during startup, idle, and heavy acceleration, and then switch to HCCI mode when cruising or accelerating under light throttle. This is where the huge efficiency gains will be. 

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I really hope they pull it off.

Their current Skyactive technology is probably the most efficient NA on the road,  Would be great if they actually can do this.

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Does this type of engine produce as much torque as a diesel?  If not, I think diesel will still have a home in trucks and larger vehicles because that's where you really need the power.

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27 minutes ago, Paolino said:

Does this type of engine produce as much torque as a diesel?  If not, I think diesel will still have a home in trucks and larger vehicles because that's where you really need the power.

No, it wouldn't have diesel like torque. It's also unlikely able to be turbo-charged, though I am not certain on this point. It might be possible to turbo an HCCI engine as long as the turbo and HCCI mode aren't running at the same time.

The driving characteristics of this would be just like any other Mazda 4-cylinder. When you get on the highway and are cruising at steady speed, the HCCI mode would come on and you'd get your great fuel economy then.  Under hard acceleration, it's just another 4-cylinder. 

As far as trucks, there's no reason they couldn't do an HCCI V6 or V8... cylinder count doesn't really matter.  But it would still be just a gasoline V6 or V8 with the same power you'd expect currently.... only you get much better fuel economy on the highway. 

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21 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No, it wouldn't have diesel like torque. It's also unlikely able to be turbo-charged, though I am not certain on this point. It might be possible to turbo an HCCI engine as long as the turbo and HCCI mode aren't running at the same time.

The driving characteristics of this would be just like any other Mazda 4-cylinder. When you get on the highway and are cruising at steady speed, the HCCI mode would come on and you'd get your great fuel economy then.  Under hard acceleration, it's just another 4-cylinder. 

As far as trucks, there's no reason they couldn't do an HCCI V6 or V8... cylinder count doesn't really matter.  But it would still be just a gasoline V6 or V8 with the same power you'd expect currently.... only you get much better fuel economy on the highway. 

What is your reasoning for saying a turbocharged HCCI engine may not be feasible? Turbo diesel engines use compression ignition. Is the difference in pressure the problem?

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4 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

What is your reasoning for saying a turbocharged HCCI engine may not be feasible? Turbo diesel engines use compression ignition. Is the difference in pressure the problem?

I can't say that I'm knowledgeable enough to be sure. However, the way diesel and HCCI burn fuel are different, so just because diesel can do it doesn't mean HCCI can. The video I posted above has a section that explains the different flame fronts and why HCCI is different in that regard.

The thing is, it is unlikely that any HCCI engine would be in HCCI mode all the time. So the engine could still be turbocharged and just only use HCCI when there is no boost going on.

*IF* Mazda engineers figured out a way to make HCCI work while the turbo was providing boost, that would be possibly the biggest engine development achievement of the last 60 years.

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I thought there isn't a reason why diesels couldn't have HCCI "mode"....?

if a turbo could be used in HCCI.. couldn't it just be used as a preheating of the charge?  could a variable "displacement" intercooler be possible, thus able to modify approximate temps based on boost?

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Isn't the current HCCI issue the problem of having whacky ignition timing with gasoline when you run such high compression ratios....

What if....what if....this is a opposed piston engine? 

Apparently one major automaker is actually tooling up to build a 4 cylinder opposed pistion engine.

 

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