Cadillac News: Spying: 2018 Cadillac XT3 Comes Fully Camouflaged

[smk4565]

In response to Casa's post (I didn't want to quote the whole thing), I agree that Cadillac has heritage, but they fail to capitalize on it.  Mercedes talks about their history all the time, Cadillac wants people to forget theirs.  

I mostly agree with the 10 products they need, but I don't think Cadillac needs 4 sedans when sedan sales are tanking, 3 is enough.  They do need coupes, convertibles and sports cars, and I believe they need alpha and Omega crossovers with V-series versions.  They need electric cars in the 2020-2025 time frame to hit.

XT5 is priced like a GLC now, an XT3 is going to have GLA level pricing, so the haters of the GLA better get ready for that, and XT3 is front drive just like a GLA, they are going after the same market.  I'd rather see Cadillac go up market and sales volume will come later.  Cadillac lacks prestige, if they want to get it they have to go up market.  If Buick is really so strong, they should be able to take on Lincoln, the Lacrosse can go up $10k in base price and replace the XTS, Regal can go up in price and take on MKZ.  Make the ATS and XT3 $39,950 base, CTS,and XT5 $53,000base, CT6 and XT7 $84,950, Escalade $99,950 base model.

Good luck getting dealers to accept 20% price hikes to Buick and Cadillac models though.

[hyperv6]

7 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Can we at least wait for the XT3 to be released?  It is true the Cadillac looks like it is behind because of current sales trends, but budgets, time constraints and limited resources all take their toll.  Without the Escalade, Caddy would have a Lincoln-sized funding gap problem.  It wan not that long ago that Caddy was simply not competitive in the luxury space and a lot of bad decisions led to inferior product.  The Germans and Lexus have made so few mistakes in the last 25 years or so that Cadillac looked really bad.  As far as I can tell, Cadillac has largely escaped its worst days and will be fully competitive within five years or so.  The XT5 (and CT6) are proof of that.  The XT3 will be more proof once released.  You could say that the best thing about Cadillac is Chevy, since unlike Mercedes Caddy does not have to appease the non-luxury market anywhere.  Cadillac is going in the right direction and it will be just fine in 2020 or so.  No need to panic.

I wish more people would grasp reality as you have. Thanks for the post. 

There is so much yet to be done and so few realize or will admit what it takes to get it all done. 

Even then Cadillac needs to still take the time to earn the rep back. 

You can relate back to heritage but most people today are more about what have you done lately.  59 Fins mean little to many buyers today. 

[balthazar]

• That's funny, I don't recall smk bemoaning Mercedes stodgy image over the last few years- for sure I would have, so must be 'fake news'. And it's OK RE your op of Buick, there are plenty of people who don;t feel Mercedes is a luxury brand, either, but a mainstream everyman brand. 

• Buick & GMC luxury product bolstering Cadillac dealership (if they are so paired) is not to compete with Chevy dealers, but with mercedes dealers, what with all the newest, fastest-growth sub- average ATP models & work vans.

[hyperv6]

I think we all need to look to GMC to see what revival Cadillac needs. 

GMC was not known as a luxury brand for the most part. Their heritage was lost on most people and many were crying for them to be removed from the GM line up. 

But they discovered the Denali. The Denali has given them a compelling product that draws people to it. They found that with just some simple chrome and features they can increase the price of the product over others and have people waiting to buy them. 

The key to the Denali is how it reflects on the owner and it tells others you can afford the best. How a product reflects on the owner is pride of ownership and what driving or being seen a said vehicle says about you. The Denali has found this grove. 

Now with that said Cadillac can not just add some chrome and expect people to come, Cadillac needs to find a new niche and what works for them. I think future styling to be key and the highest quality interiors with some of the most advanced features that are easy to use. Lets face it the Germans interior need help in many cases. They are nice but not that nice. 

It may take some trial and error but they will find it and it will take time and models to keep the grow of interest coming. 

Living in the past to a point is fine but you need to move forward and create a new heritage to live on with. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/denali-big-news-money-gmc-200000692.html

 

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

Mercedes makes the best engineered vehicles in the world.  And I think it pretty widely accepted that they are a luxury car brand.  And they build performance versions of everything, and they build the dream cars that others never have the guts to build.  Who else would make a 6 wheel drive SUV, or a V12 convertible SUV, or a road car with a Formula 1 powertrain and suspension, or cars like the Pullman S-class, or McLaren SLR or SLS Gullwing.  That take the concept car stuff and actually sell it.

3 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

I think we all need to look to GMC to see what revival Cadillac needs. 

GMC was not known as a luxury brand for the most part. Their heritage was lost on most people and many were crying for them to be removed from the GM line up. 

But they discovered the Denali. The Denali has given them a compelling product that draws people to it. They found that with just some simple chrome and features they can increase the price of the product over others and have people waiting to buy them. 

The key to the Denali is how it reflects on the owner and it tells others you can afford the best. How a product reflects on the owner is pride of ownership and what driving or being seen a said vehicle says about you. The Denali has found this grove. 

Now with that said Cadillac can not just add some chrome and expect people to come, Cadillac needs to find a new niche and what works for them. I think future styling to be key and the highest quality interiors with some of the most advanced features that are easy to use. Lets face it the Germans interior need help in many cases. They are nice but not that nice. 

It may take some trial and error but they will find it and it will take time and models to keep the grow of interest coming. 

Living in the past to a point is fine but you need to move forward and create a new heritage to live on with. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/denali-big-news-money-gmc-200000692.html

 

 

I actually thought coming out of the bankruptcy, GMC should be Denali only so it wouldn't overlap with Chevy.  Most GMC's however are priced identical to the Chevy counterpart, sort of pointless to do that.

[David]

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes makes the best engineered vehicles in the world.  And I think it pretty widely accepted that they are a luxury car brand.  And they build performance versions of everything, and they build the dream cars that others never have the guts to build.  Who else would make a 6 wheel drive SUV, or a V12 convertible SUV, or a road car with a Formula 1 powertrain and suspension, or cars like the Pullman S-class, or McLaren SLR or SLS Gullwing.  That take the concept car stuff and actually sell it.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/mercedes-benz-g63-amg-6x6-six-wheel-debuts.html

Based on this story and others which I found. The 6x6 that you talk about would have never happened if not for the Australian Army that approached BENZ and paid to have it created to their spec with a hefty Turbo Diesel. This is when AMG then took it and ripped out the diesel and made a limited run glorified version that was bought up by the Arabs mostly.

Mercedes builds great auto's but I will challenge you that they build the best!

They have just as many failures and especially among their bleeding edge tech that is fine as long as the auto is under warranty.

Luxury car Brand, Yes as a part of the over all GLOBAL AUTO COMPANY that builds from Eco Box FWD appliances to Ubber Luxury brands.

Among brand snobs especially in the asian rim you find MB to be considered a Luxury brand only, but then they mostly just sell their high end. America used to be Luxury but now more and more say it is a universal auto company unless again you talk to brand or badge peeps. Europe, that is pretty clear, They see MB as a normal auto company just like Toyota, GM, VW. 

You need to accept the reality that MB to grow had to stop being a Luxury only auto company and is a global brand that sells from cheap ass FWD Appliances to Commercial Trucks and Vans, Class 8 semi's to luxury and ubber luxury auto's.

Just to be very clear, no company is ever the Best! Every company goes through good and bad times and builds crap and what is some of the best options out on the market. 

MB has build many nice auto's and just as equally as many lemons like every other auto company.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes makes the best engineered vehicles in the world.  And I think it pretty widely accepted that they are a luxury car brand.  And they build performance versions of everything, and they build the dream cars that others never have the guts to build.  Who else would make a 6 wheel drive SUV, or a V12 convertible SUV, or a road car with a Formula 1 powertrain and suspension, or cars like the Pullman S-class, or McLaren SLR or SLS Gullwing.  That take the concept car stuff and actually sell it.

I actually thought coming out of the bankruptcy, GMC should be Denali only so it wouldn't overlap with Chevy.  Most GMC's however are priced identical to the Chevy counterpart, sort of pointless to do that.

Yet they sell tons of them so obviously it is not pointless, but your assertion is. Also your first sentence is purely opinion, purely. This is why an honest discussion can't be had. You will slam anything from the domestics while praising Benz, even when the problems are essentially the same if not worse for Benz.

[hyperv6]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes makes the best engineered vehicles in the world.  And I think it pretty widely accepted that they are a luxury car brand.  And they build performance versions of everything, and they build the dream cars that others never have the guts to build.  Who else would make a 6 wheel drive SUV, or a V12 convertible SUV, or a road car with a Formula 1 powertrain and suspension, or cars like the Pullman S-class, or McLaren SLR or SLS Gullwing.  That take the concept car stuff and actually sell it.

I actually thought coming out of the bankruptcy, GMC should be Denali only so it wouldn't overlap with Chevy.  Most GMC's however are priced identical to the Chevy counterpart, sort of pointless to do that.

Some Benz are world class engineered and some models are just riding coat tails.

As for GMC they need more than Denali as not everyone wants to pay for the plastic chrome. Second the cheaper models are still more profitable than most cars on the market. 

With thinking like that don't apply for CEO anywhere. Lol....

 

[smk4565]

Cadillac and Lexus sell way more front drive cars than Mercedes, I guess they are not luxury brands either and compete with Chevy and Ford, given the above logic.  

The Australian army didn't commission this, Mercedes made it just because they could and they aren't afraid to build something ridiculous and over the top.  The GM board would never approve a convertible Escalade with a CTS-V engine, they would have 6 committee meetings with bean counters, then kill the idea.

 

[balthazar]

^ That's not a luxury vehicle. It's also not from this century.

[riviera74]

Smk4565, that vehicle looks a LOT like the Chevy Avalanche/Cadillac Escalade ESV that used to be on sale a couple of years back, but was cancelled because of poor sales.  Mercedes is not the only one who can go over the top if the ideas are valid.

[David]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I put up that dinosaur of a 90's G-Wagon Convertible and Raise you the far better Escalade EXT that should have never been killed but both are history.

[hyperv6]

The G wagon is good if you in Nairobi but I would take the Cadillac if I were going work on my long drive on I5 in LA.

The G wagon is great for stoned out rock starts that want to draw attention but for over all comfort in a city the Caddy is the choice.  

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac and Lexus sell way more front drive cars than Mercedes, I guess they are not luxury brands either and compete with Chevy and Ford, given the above logic.  

The Australian army didn't commission this, Mercedes made it just because they could and they aren't afraid to build something ridiculous and over the top.  The GM board would never approve a convertible Escalade with a CTS-V engine, they would have 6 committee meetings with bean counters, then kill the idea.

 

Cadillac currently has only two FWD cars while Mercedes actually has as many if not more so what "logic" are you actually trying to prove here? Keep trying to move that bar to suit your purpose though. It's certainly gotten you this far lol. 

[smk4565]

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ That's not a luxury vehicle. It's also not from this century.

I think it is very luxurious.

[smk4565]

44 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Cadillac currently has only two FWD cars while Mercedes actually has as many if not more so what "logic" are you actually trying to prove here? Keep trying to move that bar to suit your purpose though. It's certainly gotten you this far lol. 

Cadillac's number 1 selling SUV and #1 selling sedan are front wheel drive, and XT3 and XT7 are coming with more front wheel drive.  The dealers will pressure them for product volume, they'll get that with crossovers based on Chevy/Buick products because it is fastest and cheapest to do, that is just how GM works.

[surreal1272]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac's number 1 selling SUV and #1 selling sedan are front wheel drive, and XT3 and XT7 are coming with more front wheel drive.  The dealers will pressure them for product volume, they'll get that with crossovers based on Chevy/Buick products because it is fastest and cheapest to do, that is just how GM works.

As I said, MB CURRENTLY has as many as Cadillac. They also are planning on more as well. Guess you forgot that little fact.

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/07/mercedes-benz-looking-to-expand-range.html

18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is very luxurious.

So new leather and a few LED screens on a forty year old model is considered "luxurious"? Again, most people that are not wannabe ballers or pseudo rappers prefer a real luxury and MODERN SUV and the proof is in the sales numbers.

 

[balthazar]

Cheap plastics, horribly dated body hardware (exposed screws & gaskets), snap-on top cover & whatever that folded thin sheetmetal box is with the 'nerf bar bumper' out back just screams 'cheap'. Again I state: it's not luxury.

Edited February 19, 2017 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

On 2/16/2017 at 0:20 PM, smk4565 said:

They both handle well due to the chassis.  They should build XT3 on Alpha and give it the ATS-V engine.  But they won't do that.

This is no different than Lincoln trying to say the MKZ has upgraded suspension and sound deadening and premium steering rack or whatever BS they want to say, it is still a Fusion underneath.

Because there is no point. People who buy crossovers, even luxury crossovers, do not care if the AWD system is FWD based or RWD based. I would bet that 95% of the AWD buyers don't even know what it means.

The top three luxury crossovers in terms of sales are the RX, the XT, and the MDX. 

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is very luxurious.

You've still yet to learn your lesson about praising the Mercedes G-Class Quality. 

[smk4565]

And yet Mercedes is charging around $500,000 for the G650 Landaulet.  I don't see any Cadillacs selling at that price.

The RX, NX and RDX are top sellers because they are cheap.  I guarantee that people buying a Porsche Cayenne or BMW X5 care that it is a rear drive based vehicle especially those buying the 500 up V8 versions.  If they didn't care they wouldn't spend $90k on a crossover the same size a $45k Lexus.

Sedan sales are dropping across the market, last month mid size sedans dropped like 24% while crossovers were up 18% or around there.  The future is crossovers but  Without rear drive you can't do performance.  What Cadillac is doing with their crossovers is the same as using the Cruze and Malibu platforms to target the 3-series and 5-series.

The problem Cadillac fans have is they never had a good crossover (with exception maybe being the Northstar SRX) so they don't miss it.  Imagine BMW without the X5 M or Porsche with no Cayenne Turbo S, or If Land Rover decided to scrap all the Range Rover's off road ability and build it on a fwd mid size Sedan platform because most people don't go off road.   But Cadillac never had a true off roader or a 650 hp supercharged V8 SRX so their fans don't miss what they never had.

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

It's a coach built vehicle and the build quality is still junk. You don't get to complain about the frame of the Escalade anymore if you want to continue down that path. 

Also, get back on topic. We're talking entry lux crossovers here. Not X5s, not Cayennes.

You want the alpha platform and the ATS-V engine for something that's going to be priced against the GLA? Try to be more realistic.

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And yet Mercedes is charging around $500,000 for the G650 Landaulet.  I don't see any Cadillacs selling at that price.

The RX, NX and RDX are top sellers because they are cheap.  I guarantee that people buying a Porsche Cayenne or BMW X5 care that it is a rear drive based vehicle especially those buying the 500 up V8 versions.  If they didn't care they wouldn't spend $90k on a crossover the same size a $45k Lexus.

Sedan sales are dropping across the market, last month mid size sedans dropped like 24% while crossovers were up 18% or around there.  The future is crossovers but  Without rear drive you can't do performance.  What Cadillac is doing with their crossovers is the same as using the Cruze and Malibu platforms to target the 3-series and 5-series.

The problem Cadillac fans have is they never had a good crossover (with exception maybe being the Northstar SRX) so they don't miss it.  Imagine BMW without the X5 M or Porsche with no Cayenne Turbo S, or If Land Rover decided to scrap all the Range Rover's off road ability and build it on a fwd mid size Sedan platform because most people don't go off road.   But Cadillac never had a true off roader or a 650 hp supercharged V8 SRX so their fans don't miss what they never had.

 

 

Who gives a crap about the price of that dressed up box? All it proves is that Mercedes is better at selling to ballers and rappers than Cadillac, because that's all I ever see in those acient boxes.

 

BTW, you talk about cheap being the reason for the competitions success but you completely side step and avoid the fact that MBs success is also due to their cheap models like the CLA, GLA, and C Class. And as Drew pointed out, the average buyer (including Benz buyers) could care less about V8s and whether a CUV is FWD or RWD. Those five people that want a V8 in a tiny CUV/SUV with no real purpose other than show how quick they can run one into a concrete retainer wall can have them. Darwin Award winners.

[smk4565]

But an ATS-V engine and chassis would be a good match for the Macan  Alfa Romeo and coming GLC63.  And where is the X5 M and Cayenne competitor?  Those things have been anoint a dozen years.

If Cadillac said the next CTS will be on the Malibu platform and the CTS-V will have a 3.0 TT V6 with a Haldex all wheel drive system, GM fans would flip out.  Yet Cadillac builds crossovers (which out sell sedans) with this philosophy and GM fans praise it.

 

 

[smk4565]

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Who gives a crap about the price of that dressed up box? All it proves is that Mercedes is better at selling to ballers and rappers than Cadillac, because that's all I ever see in those acient boxes.

 

BTW, you talk about cheap being the reason for the competitions success but you completely side step and avoid the fact that MBs success is also due to their cheap models like the CLA, GLA, and C Class. And as Drew pointed out, the average buyer (including Benz buyers) could care less about V8s and whether a CUV is FWD or RWD. Those five people that want a V8 in a tiny CUV/SUV with no real purpose other than show how quick they can run one into a concrete retainer wall can have them. Darwin Award winners.

That is pretty funny, I like the Darwin Award winners line.  

The C-class isn't too cheap though, they start at $39k but I just saw a test of a C63 that was over $90k.  I actually think the C63 is priced a bit high.  And we know Mercedes cars cost more than rival BMWs, Audis or Lexus. And they beat them still so they don't need the CLA to do that.  

Only ballers and rappers (and actors) drive G-wagens because that is who can afford them.  In reality the GLE is the same size and a much better daily driver and it costs half as much.  But there are those willing to pay for an icon even if they will never use the 3 locking differentials or even know what they do.

Edited February 19, 2017 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

39 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

That is pretty funny, I like the Darwin Award winners line.  

The C-class isn't too cheap though, they start at $39k but I just saw a test of a C63 that was over $90k.  I actually think the C63 is priced a bit high.  And we know Mercedes cars cost more than rival BMWs, Audis or Lexus. And they beat them still so they don't need the CLA to do that.  

Only ballers and rappers (and actors) drive G-wagens because that is who can afford them.  In reality the GLE is the same size and a much better daily driver and it costs half as much.  But there are those willing to pay for an icon even if they will never use the 3 locking differentials or even know what they do.

$39K is cheap for a Benz, especially after your "if it isn't $70K, it isn't luxury" remark. And please, stop dismissing your own product. You made the claim, not even a year ago, about the success of the CLA and how it helps get people in the door who otherwise might not consider MB. 

 

You also do realize that their are many wealthy people other than ballers and rappers right (and no I am not talking about celebrities either)? This folks don't touch overpriced status symbols on a forty year old chassis and that is a simple fact. The fact is that the G is MBs Rube car and you'd have to be one to pay $500K for that mess. 

[smk4565]

The great thing about Mercedes is they cater to many tastes and many levels of performance.  If you want a solid all around luxury sedan, the C-class does a great job.  If you want an off road vehicle for Safari, the G-wagen does it, want a 570 hp track car they have the GT R.  You want a convertible, they have 5 of them.  You want a V12 limo they have that too.  If you thought, gee how awesome would it be to have a Formula 1 car engine in my car, well it is coming.  There is no ceiling.

Cadillac seems to have self imposed ceilings because no SUV can be better or more expensive than an Escalade and no sports car at GM can be faster than a Corvette.  And not sure what the goal is with CT6, if that is flagship or place holder, it isn't enough for a flagship but maybe there will be a CT8.

[Drew Dowdell]

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But an ATS-V engine and chassis would be a good match for the Macan  Alfa Romeo and coming GLC63.  And where is the X5 M and Cayenne competitor?  Those things have been anoint a dozen years.

If Cadillac said the next CTS will be on the Malibu platform and the CTS-V will have a 3.0 TT V6 with a Haldex all wheel drive system, GM fans would flip out.  Yet Cadillac builds crossovers (which out sell sedans) with this philosophy and GM fans praise it.

 

 

Because luxury crossovers aren't performance oriented in 95% of sales. The orientation of the engine doesn't matter. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The great thing about Mercedes is they cater to many tastes and many levels of performance.  If you want a solid all around luxury sedan, the C-class does a great job.  If you want an off road vehicle for Safari, the G-wagen does it, want a 570 hp track car they have the GT R.  You want a convertible, they have 5 of them.  You want a V12 limo they have that too.  If you thought, gee how awesome would it be to have a Formula 1 car engine in my car, well it is coming.  There is no ceiling.

Cadillac seems to have self imposed ceilings because no SUV can be better or more expensive than an Escalade and no sports car at GM can be faster than a Corvette.  And not sure what the goal is with CT6, if that is flagship or place holder, it isn't enough for a flagship but maybe there will be a CT8.

Last warning. Get back on topic. We're talking about compact entry-lux crossovers here. You're limited to the GLA if you want to discuss Benz.

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Because luxury crossovers aren't performance oriented in 95% of sales. The orientation of the engine doesn't matter. 

True, just commodity lease vehicles...comfortable appliances...the hardware just needs to be reliable. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Because luxury crossovers aren't performance oriented in 95% of sales. The orientation of the engine doesn't matter. 

Last warning. Get back on topic. We're talking about compact entry-lux crossovers here. You're limited to the GLA if you want to discuss Benz.

But what percentage of sedans are performance based?  V-series is like 5% of ATS and CTS sales, yet they still build them.    I happen to think the performance crossover market is getting ready to boom.  And even if you aren't taking horsepower wars, rear drive products just have better ride and handling, even on a 250 hp vehicle it is noticeable.

When the XT3 enters the market, what does it do better that a Lexus NX, MKC, RDX, Q3, Q5, BMW X1, Infiniti QX30 or whatever their small crossover is don't already do?  It is already crowed marketplace in which it will be hard to stand out.

[balthazar]

This has been gone over again & again : drive wheels are not a component of "ride". Stop tacking it on.

And frankly 'handling' is seldom ever pushed to even 50% for 90% of consumers. If RWD was critical, MB would have spent the money to build the CLA & GLA in RWD; to introduced (hopefully) future customers to "the best or nothing". Instead they get vinyl upholstery, cheap plastics and FWD. 

RE the XT3 : the CUV market (currently) doesn't require 'standing out'; which one of those in your lengthy list 'stands out' above the others? Tell us you assessment of how the XT5 'stood out' to so rapidly rise in the segment sales-wise (your criteria for vehicle competency)?

 

[smk4565]

XT5 sells because it is the only crossover in the show room.  It is also mid-size vehicle for the price of a small european crossover, I think that helps it with female buyers with a family that want space.  XT5 basically sells the same way the CTS sold in 2008-2013 era, it was a mid-size car for the price of a 3-series, that has appeal.  It is the same formula Lexus used on the ES and the RX.  It is a formula that works, but then you get into a situation that Lincoln and Lexus are in, where you have a mid-size SUV at $40k, and need to get a small and compact SUV below that.

[balthazar]

If people were 100% loyal to one brand, sales numbers would almost never change. You imply that only Cadillac customers are buying the XT5, but you have no evidence to support that.

And once again you pull the same old tired, transparent schtick; the XT5 STARTS at $40K, there are 4 trim levels and the Platinum STARTS at $64K. You can easily slip into the mid $70K range on the XT5, and there are more configurations to come, so there is loads of pricing room under the XT5.  That said, it would be a colossal mistake for Cadillac to build a compact CUV- it's the wrong direction.

[Stew]

Like everyone says, drive wheels do not matter here.  heck, even the BMW X1 is now based on FWD Mini architecture,  I like the GLA, especially the GLA45 and I would like to see the XT3 come out with something to challenge it, but it surely is not required.  

[Drew Dowdell]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But what percentage of sedans are performance based?  V-series is like 5% of ATS and CTS sales, yet they still build them.    I happen to think the performance crossover market is getting ready to boom.  And even if you aren't taking horsepower wars, rear drive products just have better ride and handling, even on a 250 hp vehicle it is noticeable.

When the XT3 enters the market, what does it do better that a Lexus NX, MKC, RDX, Q3, Q5, BMW X1, Infiniti QX30 or whatever their small crossover is don't already do?  It is already crowed marketplace in which it will be hard to stand out.

Most consumers can't even handle a Corolla at 7/10th, so even an Envision is well above their skill grade.   RWD v FWD has nothing to do with vehicle ride.  The Explorer and Durango ride equally well. 

You are correct that it is a crowded segment, but even if Cadillac put the XTS V-Sport engine in an XT3, it wouldn't make a difference to the buyers of the segment and would not increase sales in any measurable way.  That isn't going to be the way the Cadillac wins sales. 

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

If people were 100% loyal to one brand, sales numbers would almost never change. You imply that only Cadillac customers are buying the XT5, but you have no evidence to support that.

And once again you pull the same old tired, transparent schtick; the XT5 STARTS at $40K, there are 4 trim levels and the Platinum STARTS at $64K. You can easily slip into the mid $70K range on the XT5, and there are more configurations to come, so there is loads of pricing room under the XT5.  That said, it would be a colossal mistake for Cadillac to build a compact CUV- it's the wrong direction.

Furthermore, the XT5 is mostly not being sold at base prices.  The mid-level trims are where the bulk of the sales are and the Platinums are doing fairly well. 

[Drew Dowdell]

13 minutes ago, Stew said:

Like everyone says, drive wheels do not matter here.  heck, even the BMW X1 is now based on FWD Mini architecture,  I like the GLA, especially the GLA45 and I would like to see the XT3 come out with something to challenge it, but it surely is not required.  

C&D's GLA45 tester had an as-tested price of $67k  I can think of about 200 other vehicles I would choose over the GLA45 for that price. 

[smk4565]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

If people were 100% loyal to one brand, sales numbers would almost never change. You imply that only Cadillac customers are buying the XT5, but you have no evidence to support that.

And once again you pull the same old tired, transparent schtick; the XT5 STARTS at $40K, there are 4 trim levels and the Platinum STARTS at $64K. You can easily slip into the mid $70K range on the XT5, and there are more configurations to come, so there is loads of pricing room under the XT5.  That said, it would be a colossal mistake for Cadillac to build a compact CUV- it's the wrong direction.

Not loyal to brand but I am just saying people that want a Cadillac or walk into the show room have one option.  If you go into a Lincoln dealer you might debate between MKC and MKX because with options there is going to be a lot of price overlap.  An XT3 will naturally steal some sales of an XT5, but steal some from Competiors also because small crossover is the fastest growing auto segment right now.

i don't get how they can pile on $30k of options on an XT5 when there is no engine or transmission change.  I did sit in an XT5 at the auto show with a sticker of $57k but no car sells at base price they are all optioned up.  I don't see where the money went either, the interior seems just as cheap and plasticy as a Lincoln.

[Stew]

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

C&D's GLA45 tester had an as-tested price of $67k  I can think of about 200 other vehicles I would choose over the GLA45 for that price. 

THis is true, but still it is ice haha.  I would probably go Golf R myself since really, the GLA is really just a hatchback CLA. 

[smk4565]

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

C&D's GLA45 tester had an as-tested price of $67k  I can think of about 200 other vehicles I would choose over the GLA45 for that price. 

GLC43 coupe for that money!

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

GLC43 coupe for that money!

Heck, a CPO CLS for that money.  Or a CTS V-sport. Or a heck of alot of Continental.  Or a rather nice Genesis G80 V6 AWD. 

[David]

14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

.  I don't see where the money went either, the interior seems just as cheap and plasticy as a Lincoln.

Clearly you were not sitting in an XT-5 since the dash even in the base models are all covered in nice plush leather. 

Just so you can see the difference, Here is the Current 2017 XT-5 Interior up against 2017 GLC interior.

XT-5 Clearly says Luxury

GLC says Boy Racer

Talking Cheap Plastic, MB has been using the circle cheap plastic vents for ever and you get them even on their ubber overpriced S class.

[Drew Dowdell]

you can even get CPO S-classes with low mileage for that money.

I actually prefer the looks of the GLC over the XT5, but I wouldn't call it particularly better.  It's just my subjective opinion on styling

[smk4565]

Without the optional leather package in the XT5 you get a lot of plastic and the door panels below the arm rest are plastic.  I even thought the CT6 was just an average interior, you get better in an Audi A6 or Q7, or even a Volvo S90.   When you sit in a lot of Buick, GMC, Chevy and Cadillac at once you see a lot of design similarities and parts sharing.  And you can see the same dash shapes in a lot of these cars the Cadillac just swaps out the head unit and center stack from what a Chevy would have.

i feel like XT3 is going to bring us an Equinox with the CUE center console and the Envision's 2 liter turbo.  Because it is all about parts sharing and speedy development and low cost.  We shall see when it is revealed.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Without the optional leather package in the XT5 you get a lot of plastic and the door panels below the arm rest are plastic.  I even thought the CT6 was just an average interior, you get better in an Audi A6 or Q7, or even a Volvo S90.   When you sit in a lot of Buick, GMC, Chevy and Cadillac at once you see a lot of design similarities and parts sharing.  And you can see the same dash shapes in a lot of these cars the Cadillac just swaps out the head unit and center stack from what a Chevy would have.

i feel like XT3 is going to bring us an Equinox with the CUE center console and the Envision's 2 liter turbo.  Because it is all about parts sharing and speedy development and low cost.  We shall see when it is revealed.

Yes because this just screams high class from Mercedes. Who designed the dash and cluster for that? Ray Charles?

 

[David]

28 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Yes because this just screams high class from Mercedes. Who designed the dash and cluster for that? Ray Charles?

 

WOW, I know I have seen some shaby dashes from everyone but this one does make me shake my head. 

Category for $1000

Which model of MB is this dash out of?

[Robert Hall]

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

WOW, I know I have seen some shaby dashes from everyone but this one does make me shake my head. 

Category for $1000

Which model of MB is this dash out of?

Hmmm..current E-class it looks like.  But why is the center wheel emblem solid black?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[David]

22 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Hmmm..current E-class it looks like.  But why is the center wheel emblem solid black?

Looks like a black circle was put over it for who knows what reason.

E-Class? Really, I honestly do not know so as to why I am asking, if it is the E-Class this just proves that MB can build garbage like everyone else.

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Looks like a black circle was put over it for who knows what reason.

E-Class? Really, I honestly do not know so as to why I am asking, if it is the E-Class this just proves that MB can build garbage like everyone else.

Very similar design to the S-class dash that has been around a few years.  This style E-class came out for '16.  The CLS dash is also very similar.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

The blacked-out emblem & the walkie-talkie point to it being a 'beta' car out for testing.

Those gauges look right out of the 1980s, and all that high-gloss piano black across the dash is going to look horribly filthy in no time. 

[smk4565]

Photos of the test model, not even the production E-class.  The E-class is the standard for interior and just about everything else in mid-size luxury sedans.  I don't like the piano black on the E-class, I wish there was a wood trim substitute for that, not sure if there is. 

But then there is this with a lot of piano black:

[David]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Photos of the test model, not even the production E-class.  The E-class is the standard for interior and just about everything else in mid-size luxury sedans.  I don't like the piano black on the E-class, I wish there was a wood trim substitute for that, not sure if there is. 

But then there is this with a lot of piano black:

True it has piano black, but then it looks 21st century not 20th century. That e-class and what I am looking at on the web site just already looks dated.

Sorry do not get what you think is so great about their interior.