forbes Forbes List of 15 Auto's to Avoid

[David]

Forbes List of 15 Auto's to Avoid

Forbes have published their 2017 auto list to avoid. This is based on their reviews of Consumer reports rating and JD Powers ranking. Interesting you can click the link above to read all the details of what they state for each auto but the list shakes down as follows: 

1. BMW 7 Series
2. Cadillac XTS
3. Dodge Journey
4. Fiat 500L
5. Jeep Compass
6. Jeep Patriot
7. Jeep Wrangler
8. Lincoln MKS
9. Lincoln MKT
10. Mitsubishi iMiEV
11. Mitsubishi Mirage
12. Nissan Armada
13. Nissan Titan
14. Scian iQ
15. Smart ForTwo

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

How much U wanna be the REAL reason why the XTS is on there is for CUE.. which is more a reason to band people for being stupid in not being able to operate a touch-screen in 2011 let alone 2017

but.. I'll quote:

Quote

Tell the truth we find the big and benign full-size front-drive XTS sedan to be something of a guilty pleasure. Unfortunately, a boulevard cruiser like this falls short in today’s ultra-sophisticated luxury-car market. Consumer Reports cites the XTS as being among the industry’s worst values, and we think the Chevrolet Impala offers equivalent accommodations for less money. The biggest Caddy also gets low marks for initial quality and performance from J.D. Power and a below-average resale value rating from ALG.

So basically Caddy got hit for being too much like the new Continental. and OLD MKS.. which is on the list for similar attributes... that every one of Ford's fans swear is what's right with American luxury.. soft and cruisy

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

How much U wanna be the REAL reason why the XTS is on there is for CUE.. which is more a reason to band people for being stupid in not being able to operate a touch-screen in 2011 let alone 2017

It isn't the touch screen people don't like. It is the non-physical "buttons" for the whole HVAC that kind of sucks. I don't mind the touch buttons but in all honesty in order to operate you have to take your eyes off the road longer to operate them, that's just how they are. You won't know you upped the temp 3 degrees without looking down a couple times whereas an actual button you can feel it click when turned.

Edited February 27, 2017 by ccap41

[Cmicasa the Great]

19 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It isn't the touch screen people don't like. It is the non-physical "buttons" for the whole HVAC that kind of sucks. I don't mind the touch buttons but in all honesty in order to operate you have to take your eyes off the road longer to operate them, that's just how they are. You won't know you upped the temp 3 degrees without looking down a couple times whereas an actual button you can feel it click when turned.

No offense, but that simply is not true. For each time U tap the screen U get haptic feedback letting U know that the temp has moved. If U looked it in the beginning.. for example.. and it was at 70.. and U wanted it at 74.. U would tap it the appropriate amount of times to get there.. and haptic feedback would allow U to "feel" the amount of times U went up no different than a click of a button. Its the same thing.. and people need to get it in their heads that it is just the way of the future. Less parts.. and basically just programming and sensors underneath. Brilliant in my mind.. and no different than having a touch screen radio or media center.

Truth.. if U are telling me that U drive.. and never look down.. eyes on the road all the way.. not even at your radio display or hell.. cell phone.. then I'm just gonna call U a Bull-Shitter.  

[ccap41]

33 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

No offense, but that simply is not true. For each time U tap the screen U get haptic feedback letting U know that the temp has moved.

Ohhhh does it have a little vibration??? I knew that...

Oh I definitely look down but it's the amount of time looking away is what I was getting at.

[David]

38 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

No offense, but that simply is not true. For each time U tap the screen U get haptic feedback letting U know that the temp has moved. If U looked it in the beginning.. for example.. and it was at 70.. and U wanted it at 74.. U would tap it the appropriate amount of times to get there.. and haptic feedback would allow U to "feel" the amount of times U went up no different than a click of a button. Its the same thing.. and people need to get it in their heads that it is just the way of the future. Less parts.. and basically just programming and sensors underneath. Brilliant in my mind.. and no different than having a touch screen radio or media center.

Truth.. if U are telling me that U drive.. and never look down.. eyes on the road all the way.. not even at your radio display or hell.. cell phone.. then I'm just gonna call U a Bull-Shitter.  

So the QUESTION to ask all those that blame CUE and do not either know or ignor the haptic feedback is as follows:

If CUE is so bad, then does this not also make your iPhone, Android, etc. just as bad? No real buttons for the most part and just haptic feedback off the screen buttons?

I am willing to bet that many of Consumer Reports writers as well as so many others use iPhone's or other Android based phones that have some form of Haptic feedback and you all seem fine with that.

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Ohhhh does it have a little vibration??? I knew that...

Oh I definitely look down but it's the amount of time looking away is what I was getting at.

So if your looking down at your manual based buttons which take just as much time as the CUE interface, then how is this any different?

Like all auto's if you read your owners manual, learn your auto interface, the seconds are the same be it a manual button, switch, toggle, etc compared to touching the cue screen. Same feedback confirmation.  No difference in the distraction.

[Cmicasa the Great]

^^^but in the bandwagon spirit of things.. U kno the one where they find one thing that was complained about by some numbskull who had a problem with Caddy to begin with..  and suddenly it's the new thing for all who compare it with others to bitch about..

A whole year with CUE and I can't seem to find any more wrong with it than I do with every other Touchscreen device I have at my disposal.. From phone to tablet to computer screen to refrigerator UI. 

[ccap41]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

So if your looking down at your manual based buttons which take just as much time as the CUE interface, then how is this any different?

Because a manual dial or button you can take a glimpse and then feel for it(assuming the user has any decent hand/eye coordination) without having to look at it the whole time. Glance, reach, adjust, glance. When there isn't a real button(and had there not been haptic feedback) then it's difficult to adjust without looking down for a longer period of time.

[David]

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Because a manual dial or button you can take a glimpse and then feel for it(assuming the user has any decent hand/eye coordination) without having to look at it the whole time. Glance, reach, adjust, glance. When there isn't a real button(and had there not been haptic feedback) then it's difficult to adjust without looking down for a longer period of time.

Guess that would explain why the screen is at the top of the dash so you look to the side and out of your peripheral be able to see what you need, touch the spot, and be looking back. I have never had the problem you seem to describe but we are all different.

[ccap41]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Guess that would explain why the screen is at the top of the dash so you look to the side and out of your peripheral be able to see what you need, touch the spot, and be looking back. I have never had the problem you seem to describe but we are all different.

I wasn't talking about the touch screen in the first place. I said specifically the HVAC-like controls.

"It isn't the touch screen people don't like. It is the non-physical "buttons" for the whole HVAC that kind of sucks."

[David]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I wasn't talking about the touch screen in the first place. I said specifically the HVAC-like controls.

"It isn't the touch screen people don't like. It is the non-physical "buttons" for the whole HVAC that kind of sucks."

I understand that, but for me the HVAC controls work fine and neither my wife, my adults kids or I have any problem with using them when driving be it the Escalade, CTS or SRX.

[ccap41]

We can agree to disagree because I've been in a Cadillac and used them and while they aren't terrible they are far from the best. That's why they're knocked so hard, because what they are compared to. Others just do the controls better. Even the salesman that showed me an ATS had difficulties getting the "buttons" to work consistently.

[David]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

We can agree to disagree because I've been in a Cadillac and used them and while they aren't terrible they are far from the best. That's why they're knocked so hard, because what they are compared to. Others just do the controls better. Even the salesman that showed me an ATS had difficulties getting the "buttons" to work consistently.

Sadly that is a piss poor salesman that needs to be told to learn or shown the door. I hate ignorant sales people who just want to make a quick buck and not actually learn what they sell.

Agreed, to disagree. I have to say the most confusing and stupid interfaces is on BMW and MB auto's and they are NOT user intuitive.

So before SMK try's to pop in here and say I know nothing, I have spent plenty of time in them and always silently laugh when my coworkers volunteer to drive and how much problem they have driving their own auto usually cause even the sales person who sold it to them never bothered to go over and train the buyer on how to properly use the interface. This happens at all dealerships.

For me, I do not have that problem with the CUE interface.

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I wasn't talking about the touch screen in the first place. I said specifically the HVAC-like controls.

"It isn't the touch screen people don't like. It is the non-physical "buttons" for the whole HVAC that kind of sucks."

But again.. Look at the pic.. After an hour of driving this car U would be an IDIOT.. to come in here and say that this is an issue. First of all the BLUE (Cooler) and RED (Hotter) Sensors are literally set over physical material that guides the finger . The Volume Adjuster is cool as ice.. one only needs to slide their finger over the physical metal/plastic and volume adjusts instantly... just like a button. I won't even mention that whatever changes are made are also put up on the big Display

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

We can agree to disagree because I've been in a Cadillac and used them and while they aren't terrible they are far from the best. That's why they're knocked so hard, because what they are compared to. Others just do the controls better. Even the salesman that showed me an ATS had difficulties getting the "buttons" to work consistently.

No.. Fuck That. I AGREE that U are simply wrong. The Salesman U dealt with was a dumbass. 

[ccap41]

No, because I literally saw him touching the correct spot and it didn't work 100% of the time. It reacted the same for my finger and in video reviews I've watched as well when shopping ATSs. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

No, because I literally saw him touching the correct spot and it didn't work 100% of the time. It reacted the same for my finger and in video reviews I've watched as well when shopping ATSs. 

100%? Lol.. I use my CUE 100% of the time and it works 1000% of that time. Your salesman.. U.., and the Videos need to go back to "Touchscreen School "

[ccap41]

3 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

100%? Lol.. I use my CUE 100% of the time and it works 1000% of that time. Your salesman.. U.., and the Videos need to go back to "Touchscreen School "

Or... they could just make a better product. It is clear as day that not everybody likes it. 

It's bad when my Focus' Sync3 outperforms Cadillac's system.

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Or... they could just make a better product. It is clear as day that not everybody likes it. 

It's bad when my Focus' Sync3 outperforms Cadillac's system.

Whatever Bro... U sit in one ATS and have problems fiddling with CUE.. and both myself and dfelt actually OWN and DRIVE.. and DEAL WITH.. CUE and yet.. your word is gospel on the matter. 

Like I said.. if its your first or even second time dealing with an all touch-screen system.. yeah.. I get that U feel handicapped.. but don't come at me or anyone who has actually spent time with the system and tell us that its shit.. cause it isn't. Not to mention.. its only getting better, more bountiful, and faster. 

As to your Focus.. ironically.. and interesting enough.. U musta missed this part of the article.. :

Quote

Adding insult to injury, the MKS is fitted with the MyLincoln Touch multimedia operating system that confounds and distracts drivers at every turn.

With CUE.. I religiously use it while I'm doing hairpin turns, +.7gs.. 120+mph.. and stroking my lady's thigh. No distraction at all

[ccap41]

Answer me this then.. How in the fck are they supposed to sell cars if not all of their CUE systems are working properly? Because I'm sure as hell not the only person who's had an issue fiddling with the fake buttons. You can blame the users 1000 times over but that doesn't make the system any better in comparison to their competition.

Sync3 is not MyFordTouch. Nuff said there.

MyFordTouch is what was in my Escape.

[David]

I will say that if you have been driving Ford for a long time, then the Ford products become very natural on how they work, same for us that have owned many GM products and gone through the generations of CUE, etc. I would say that Cmicasa and myself have the memory touch of how we interface with our system down and it works just fine. Even when my Dad traded in his pickup truck for a new SRX just before the XT-5 came out Cadillac spent an hour going over everything with them. That is how a knowledgeable salesperson closes out the deal. My parents left knowing how to fully use the CUE. Not had one problem since.

I know this is the same for what I believe to be a non-user intuitive system in BMW and MB. If the salesperson does the right thing after selling the auto, they go over the complete system making sure the customer knows how to use it and use it successfully.

Take with a grain of salt Auto Journalist who bitch about interfaces when they have spent a week at most with a system that they got zero training on. 

Now this also brings up that all systems can be far more user intuitive, sadly patents make having standards hard across all auto's when you have a company like Apple that tries to patent swiping a finger across the screen.

Some patents sucks,

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Answer me this then.. How in the fck are they supposed to sell cars if not all of their CUE systems are working properly? Because I'm sure as hell not the only person who's had an issue fiddling with the fake buttons. You can blame the users 1000 times over but that doesn't make the system any better in comparison to their competition.

Sync3 is not MyFordTouch. Nuff said there.

MyFordTouch is what was in my Escape.

It wasn't meant to be a direct comparison of the Ford systems, but ironic due to U praising Ford's system.. any system while trying to dog of the GM one while in that very same article Ford's other system was being pissed on.. The biggest part was I've used the Ford system.. both.., and had no issue with either. Point is that if the media.. or FANBOIS such as yourself hear one thing that is wrong their fuckin ears perk up and it is forever their go to response for everything... 

"Hey man.. did U hear Cadillac's ATS is the best handling car in its class 5 years running.. with newer competitors still not able to beat it??? "

Your response... " Yeah.. but man I hate CUE."

"Dude.. Cadillac's CTS-V is awesome.. can do the 1/4 in 11.4@126 and looks great doing it.. full of luxury.."

Your Response... "Yeah... but man I hate CUE."

"Bro.. Did U see that new CT6? Full of luxury.. damn near puts the S-Class on the rollback for $10K Less."

Your Response... "Yeah.. but man I hate CUE"

"OMG.. Cadillac.. Yes.. CADILLAC just won 24 Hours at Lemans"

Your Response.. "Yeah.. but man I hate CUE."        

My response to U??? "Dude.. can U just go  yourself and be done with it."

[ccap41]

I've never been all googly-eyed over MFT because...it wasn't that great. It was extremely laggy in comparison to others. So if you can find me going all googly eyed over MFT I'd like to know where that was. CUE is better than MFT but it isn't better than Sync3.

If I hadn't had an opportunity to use CUE first hand I wouldn't have knocked it or continue to knock how I have. I think fake buttons where real buttons should be just sucks. I don't like that. Most people don't like it apparently.

When have I ever knocked CUE when talking performance? I don't bring up CUE out of nowhere. You may call me a fanboy but I'm way less biased than you are. I at least can admit when Ford doesn't do something right or something they make blows. Maybe you're little biased self doesn't remember but I PRAISED the Cadillac on the 24hr win, I was excited when they announced that CADILLAC was going to be the racing brand in the Daytona Prototype class this year.

I've also expressed my experience with the CT6 here as well. I fckn loved it. I thought it was great. I thought the way you could navigate the touch screen without having to reach and touch it with the "laptop pad" was awesome. But you wouldn't remember that because I praised it.

I find it quite telling of your lack of character when you have to tell somebody to kill themselves because they don't think one aspect of a GM car is up to par, because it isn't. Pathetic.

Edited March 1, 2017 by ccap41

[ccap41]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Take with a grain of salt Auto Journalist who bitch about interfaces when they have spent a week at most with a system that they got zero training on. 

They, unlike you and I, get a opportunity to use every system on the market and often.

One shouldn't need training on how to use their car. You don't get training how to use your phone or computer, right? Because their design is much better, they make more sense.

[David]

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They, unlike you and I, get a opportunity to use every system on the market and often.

One shouldn't need training on how to use their car. You don't get training how to use your phone or computer, right? Because their design is much better, they make more sense.

Everything always needs training and with EV's Auto companies are going to have to train their sales people on how you drive and use an EV for regeneration and other purposes. We are in a changing world and must keep our mind open to learning and changing.

[ccap41]

27 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Everything always needs training and with EV's Auto companies are going to have to train their sales people on how you drive and use an EV for regeneration and other purposes. We are in a changing world and must keep our mind open to learning and changing.

Not everything SHOULD require training though. If you're buying an EV and don't know how to use the internet... you likely shouldn't be buying an EV as you likely will not grasp some of the concepts regardless of an hour training session from a salesman.

[David]

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Not everything SHOULD require training though. If you're buying an EV and don't know how to use the internet... you likely shouldn't be buying an EV as you likely will not grasp some of the concepts regardless of an hour training session from a salesman.

Your missing my point, Not everything in life should require training, but some things and Auto's are a big one should always include training. Too many IDIOTS are out there driving their auto not knowing how to turn things on, off, use them proper or drive at the proper speed. I cannot tell you how many fogged up auto's I see being driven when if the idiots would turn on their defrost, they would have clear windshields. Sadly people seem to be too stupid during snow to clear all their windows. 

EV driving in regen mode with paddles does require training even if you do read the internet. This is why the BOLT will be a success and failure. Success as in ICE mode, it requires use of the brake, but for those in pure EV mode, you get regen and must use the steering wheel paddles. Training of the sales people properly so they can then properly demo and explain it to potential buyers should be a requirement I hope by GM before someone tries to sell the auto.

Success comes from training and for those that think they never need training, I can show you less productivity, less performance and less ability to excel. Again, Training on major things like an auto is needed and should be required. I get it that it is not needed on TV's, and many other basic things, but an Auto, yes I think they are needed today due to the complex nature of the auto.