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William Maley

Cadillac News: Don't Call It XT3, Call It XT4

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In various reports about Cadillac's upcoming small crossover, we have been calling it the XT3. But recently at Geneva Motor Show, Cadillac president Johan de Nysschen revealed the actual name.

“A new compact crossover called XT4 will debut in 2018 in the US and subsequently in Europe, with an entirely new series of efficient and powerful engines. Starting with the launch of XT4, a new Cadillac will be brought to market every six months, a total of five carlines in the space of two years,” said de Nysschen.

It is expected that the XT4 will use the bones of the new Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain. Power will come from a 2.0L turbo-four paired with a nine-speed automatic

Source: Cadillac


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Interesting..would have thought they would have used the name XT3 as the compact CUV and leave XT4 for a future compact coupe CUV, and XT6 for a midsize coupe CUV (if they want to match MB, BMW, etc). ;)

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Pretty positive Cadillac is not looking to "match" MB/BMW.
And 'compact coupe CUVs' are largely a waste of development dollars- look at X4/X6 sales vs X3/X5. 
Cadillac would be wise to STOP at any CUV smaller than the XT4, and don't for a second think about any 'squashed sedan CUVs.

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I do hate numbered schemes that box you in like A3-4-5-6-7-8, or XT4-5-6-7, etc.  Because then if the market changes or you want to introduce a new product your naming scheme doesn't allow it.  

I wonder why they went with XT4, unless they want to make it not like BMW X3.  But I think more likely they see the need for XT2 and XT3 later on, so they want more slots below it to use.

16 hours ago, daves87rs said:

With the 2.0 is might be quick.....

Not as fast as a 505 hp Alfa Romeo Stelvio though.

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No one is going to buy a 'stelvio', however, so -no doubt you'll agree- it's a 'failure'.

Here's again to hoping Cadillac bypasses the foolishness of any CUV below the XT4. 

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They will need something smaller to compete with Q3, GLA, X1, etc..  and maybe something in the Trax/Encore size or smaller (maybe a Spark based CUV ?)...esp. if they have any plans to compete in Europe in Asia... 

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar

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They don't "need" to be in every segment, that's a fallacy. It's about defining the brand, not buttering toast. For example- where's the $30K Porsche (could use the VW 2.0T)? Answer- though it would sell in potential huge numbers, that's not where Porsche had decided to go. They are a lower volume brand that has defined themselves.  

A Spark-based Cadillac CUV?? Dear God- who's asking? 'Because they can' is not a marketing principal (see above). And Cadillac is not a mass market brand- hopefully those calling the shots going forward know that. One of the things within that should be a definition of size range. A car below the ATS in size would be an utter disaster, the least of reasons being it would primarily split that Cadillac segment (ATS/subATS) further.

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Lexus has confirmed they are putting the UX into production, that will sit below the $35,000 NX.  So you know Cadillac will want a product below XT4, to get in that growing segment.  Infiniti I think has a crossover coming below the one they have based on the GLA, Mercedes is making a GLB, they are all fighting over this low $30s crossover segment because they can get growth there.  Fighting over mid-size sedans is a lost cause anymore.

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There's a LOT more to the luxury segment that sub-compact CUVs and sedans.

Quote

So you know Cadillac will want a product below XT4, to get in that growing segment.

Wrong- Cadillac should NOT gun for every segment, every niche. XT4, XT5, XT7 and Escalade, done.
BMW X3 is only 6" shorter than the XT5- the XT4 will be in the X3 segment, there's zero need for something yet again smaller.

Edited by balthazar
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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Lexus has confirmed they are putting the UX into production, that will sit below the $35,000 NX.  So you know Cadillac will want a product below XT4, to get in that growing segment.  Infiniti I think has a crossover coming below the one they have based on the GLA, Mercedes is making a GLB, they are all fighting over this low $30s crossover segment because they can get growth there.  Fighting over mid-size sedans is a lost cause anymore.

Let Lexus continue in their Buick, Lincoln, Acura battle for mid luxury level auto's. 

Cadillac should stay focused on defining themselves as an upper level Luxury line. No need to go below the ATS / CT3 and XT4.

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3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Let Lexus continue in their Buick, Lincoln, Acura battle for mid luxury level auto's. 

Cadillac should stay focused on defining themselves as an upper level Luxury line. No need to go below the ATS / CT3 and XT4.

Should, but won't.  That is why a CT6 is priced like a 5-series and the XT5 starts $15k lower than an X5.  Cadillac doesn't want to go up there and get in a head to head battle with the Germans.

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• Cadillac pricing is a growth segment- rising far quicker than at BMW (where sales were down 10% last year). 

• Cadillac CT6 price range : $55K - $90K. 

• Cadillac XT5 is crushing the X5 in sales. You love sales metrics.

Dec 2016 ~
X5 : 6245
XT5 : 7436
X5 down 13% last year (some conquest sales to the XT5)?

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But the XT5 is priced like an X3.  If the XT5 was priced like the CT6 was $55-90k, it would have no sales.    XT4 will probably cannibalize a lot of XT5 sales.  Lexus RX crushes all these luxury crossovers in sales, but it is cheap, so that's why.

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Doesn't matter what the X3/5 are priced at, this isn't a BMW.


So many internet armchair jockeys have wailed & knashed their teeth that Cadillac is "copying" (lol) the other brands..., that "Cadillac should be Cadillac" with no Earthly idea whatsoever what that may mean- but when Cadillac steps outside the tight, arbitrarily-defined ranges by the critics, suddenly the Cadillac "doesn't compete".  Bullshit. 

This is the product Cadillac has built & priced it where it is.  Where does it rank on your always critical sales chart?

Cadillac does NOT want to compete in every segment, and they are NOT looking to challenge the mainstream luxury brands in volume.  
Write that on a piece of tape, stick it to your screen, read it once in a while; it'll help your comprehension.

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2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Doesn't matter what the X3/5 are priced at, this isn't a BMW.


So many internet armchair jockeys have wailed & knashed their teeth that Cadillac is "copying" (lol) the other brands..., that "Cadillac should be Cadillac" with no Earthly idea whatsoever what that may mean- but when Cadillac steps outside the tight, arbitrarily-defined ranges by the critics, suddenly the Cadillac "doesn't compete".  Bull$h!. 

This is the product Cadillac has built & priced it where it is.  Where does it rank on your always critical sales chart?

Cadillac does NOT want to compete in every segment, and they are NOT looking to challenge the mainstream luxury brands in volume.  
Write that on a piece of tape, stick it to your screen, read it once in a while; it'll help your comprehension.

But Cadillac comes up with a product like Escalade, that defines their brand and is their most profitable product, and you don't really see a smaller version of it to capitalize on what Cadillac is.  Not that I want them to make 6 versions of Escalade like there are 5 or 6 "Range Rovers" now, but I don't see a lot of Escalade influence in other Cadilacs, other than vertical lights, which every Cadillac has, and had since like 2003.   Jeep does this well, Compass is a mini Grand Cherokee, Renegade is heavily influenced by Wrangler, because those are the iconic designs, and they get those designs to people at a lower price point. 

Cadillac is supposed to be performance luxury, but the performance is limited to 2 models, when they have 6 models.  6 model lines isn't enough as it is, 2 performance lines surely isn't enough.  People want horsepower and performance, and people now want crossovers a lot more than they want sedans, yet Cadillac hasn't combined the 2 yet, when Porsche, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Bentley, Jaguar, Land Rover all have, and probably soon Aston Martin and Lamborghini will join them.  Huge missed opportunity by not having performance in the crossover space, just like the V-series sedans (and rwd sedans in general) arrived 15 years too late after the M3 and M5 already set the segment.

In 10 years time we will look back on Cadillacs crossovers of the 2010-2020 era as lackluster product that let them fall behind, just as we now look back at the 90s FWD Seville and Deville that failed to get it done and let the Germans take over.  20 years later Cadillac makes the exact same mistake, but with a different body style.

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I see it this way, Group A has decided to build crossovers on FWD mass market platforms, this includes Cadillac, Acura, Lexus and Lincoln (and about half the Infiniti and Audi crossovers)

Group B thinks performance matters and uses a more purpose built chassis, boosted engines, etc.  This includes Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar/Land Rover, Bentley, Porsche, Maserati.

Would you want to be in group A or Group B?

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Jeep "is supposed to be" about 'total off-road capability', but I don't see them capitalizing on that with the Compass & Renegade, which absolutely aren't.  Orrrrr : maybe a brand can be more than a singular directive (like uber-lux sedans / cheaply-built cargo boxes under the same badge). It's the nature of the industry, I am surprised you are oblivious to it.

[[ Hey- how come you don't bash the Jaguar f-pace, which starts only $1500 higher than the XT5, for "not going head-to-head with the Germans"?? Does that put the f-pace into your 'Group A' by default? Or in this example, is price no longer a factor?]]

The 75% soccer mom buyers of SUVs from BMW, et al, don't have any earthly idea what sort of platform is under there; they're not bought for performance or handling or road manners or anything beyond the badge & creature comforts. I GUARANTEE you if BMW suddenly changed the X5 to FWD/AWD (AWD: the VAST majority of ALL these mentioned are- "it's a growth segment!"), sales wouldn't fall any faster than they have been over the last 2 years.

Cadillac does not conform to your definition of it, and never will. The brand is luxury, it is performance, it is many other things, not necessarily everyone of them at the same time. Just like the E300 can't outrun a Camry V6 to 60. The performance aspect is not necessarily just a screaming 0-60 -these cars aren't put into competition-, but it means general excellent performance.  Cadillac is sorry if you got the impression that meant drag racing; they're sending a card. 

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With 33 inches of rear seat legroom, the ATS is already too small.

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19 hours ago, balthazar said:

There's a LOT more to the luxury segment that sub-compact CUVs and sedans.

Wrong- Cadillac should NOT gun for every segment, every niche. XT4, XT5, XT7 and Escalade, done.
BMW X3 is only 6" shorter than the XT5- the XT4 will be in the X3 segment, there's zero need for something yet again smaller.

Gotta be honest... I think that while Cadillac does not have to pursue every segment.. they do have to offer something within the realm of each segment as an alternative. The CT6 strategy , for instance is perfect.. if they implement within that, and all future derivatives, variation. They simply have to use their collective imagination.. or better yet simply yank from their own past.. seeing past trends by creating their own. The death of the CTS wagon, for instance.. and coupe.. was short-sighted and has been, IMO, the direct reason why the CTS continues to suffer in sales.. that and the XTS. Its absolutely basic. The E-Class 3340 units last month while the CTS and XTS pulled in 2258. Even adding in the CT6 U still only sold 3060. Size isn't even a factor... These three cars literally overlap in price like a mofo.. The E-Class garnered sales from the simple fact that it comes in every variant under the damn sun. Sedan, Coupe, Wagon. Cadillac could instantly bring the CTS within striking distance if it offered the same. 

So while I think that the XT4, XT5, and XT7, along with the Escalades are fine.. I do think it needs to flesh out its car portfolio to include at minimum 2 wagons and 3 coupes. Business case against cars be damned.. because if it were ONLY about sales in the highest market.. then an XT1, XT3, XT6, and XT8 should be added to that portfolio pronto... and kill all the cars. I won't even mention that building these cars (variants) would be way more cost effective and at the same time pull Cadillac in sales from niche.. which add up quick. Just had to add these pics as I love this car so

20170211_003606.png

20170211_003201.png

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7 hours ago, balthazar said:

Jeep "is supposed to be" about 'total off-road capability', but I don't see them capitalizing on that with the Compass & Renegade, which absolutely aren't.  Orrrrr : maybe a brand can be more than a singular directive (like uber-lux sedans / cheaply-built cargo boxes under the same badge). It's the nature of the industry, I am surprised you are oblivious to it.

[[ Hey- how come you don't bash the Jaguar f-pace, which starts only $1500 higher than the XT5, for "not going head-to-head with the Germans"?? Does that put the f-pace into your 'Group A' by default? Or in this example, is price no longer a factor?]]

The 75% soccer mom buyers of SUVs from BMW, et al, don't have any earthly idea what sort of platform is under there; they're not bought for performance or handling or road manners or anything beyond the badge & creature comforts. I GUARANTEE you if BMW suddenly changed the X5 to FWD/AWD (AWD: the VAST majority of ALL these mentioned are- "it's a growth segment!"), sales wouldn't fall any faster than they have been over the last 2 years.

Cadillac does not conform to your definition of it, and never will. The brand is luxury, it is performance, it is many other things, not necessarily everyone of them at the same time. Just like the E300 can't outrun a Camry V6 to 60. The performance aspect is not necessarily just a screaming 0-60 -these cars aren't put into competition-, but it means general excellent performance.  Cadillac is sorry if you got the impression that meant drag racing; they're sending a card. 

The F-pace is a GLC, X3, Macan (soon to be Stelvio) competitor.  F-Pace is based on the XE small sedan.  

And yes an E300 is slower than a V6 Camry, but they offer more powerful engines.  M-B offers AMG engines on every model line, Cadillac can't do a V-series on their Utilities because their platforms couldn't handle the power.  I can't see how Cadillac fans are happy that the CTS-V engine isn't on an XT5, when the Europeans all have big power.

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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I see it this way, Group A has decided to build crossovers on FWD mass market platforms, this includes Cadillac, Acura, Lexus and Lincoln (and about half the Infiniti and Audi crossovers)

Group B thinks performance matters and uses a more purpose built chassis, boosted engines, etc.  This includes Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar/Land Rover, Bentley, Porsche, Maserati.

Would you want to be in group A or Group B?

Your just moving the goal post again to try and justify that MB is no different than Chevy, Ford, Toyota or VW. They are no longer a luxury only auto builder. They have expanded their brand to cover everything and eventually that will change their badge image in the public's eye. 

Cadillac is rebuilding itself as a luxury builder and is looking at select profitable models over being in everything at every level.

Two different approaches to market segments.

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@Cmicasa the Great I agree with you that Cadillac on their current products need 2 door, 4 door sedans, coupes and convertibles.

Love that cadillac you posted, such a beauty.

Anything below an ATS soon to be CT3 and XT4 I think they can ignore.

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20 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Your just moving the goal post again to try and justify that MB is no different than Chevy, Ford, Toyota or VW. They are no longer a luxury only auto builder. They have expanded their brand to cover everything and eventually that will change their badge image in the public's eye. 

Cadillac is rebuilding itself as a luxury builder and is looking at select profitable models over being in everything at every level.

Two different approaches to market segments.

And yet M-B is #1 in US market luxury sales, #1 in European market luxury sales, #2 in China market luxury sales and 3 time defending champion in Formula 1.  While posting record profits the past few years.

On the Cadillac front, I agree a sub-ATS car is a waste of time, they need crossovers.  That is what sells.

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