Review: 2017 Cadillac CT6 Platinum 3.0TT

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

There is a lot Cadillac should have done.  In the future they need to do more.  I don't know why they don't have the CTS-V engine in an SUV.  Lack of convertible is a problem.  And I can't believe GMC doesn't have a hardcore off roader to compete with the Wrangler that they can use the chassis to make a Cadillac off roader to compete with the G-wagon.

For years people said the CLA would be Mercedes downfall, it never happened, they are still #1 having record setting years.  And this is exactly where Lexus, Cadillac, Acura and the others are going.  Lexus has a GLA competitor on the way,  Cadillac plans a crossover below XT4 and the XT5 starts under $40k.  So they are all in that same space.

Yes, the CLA is the cheapening of Benz.    Benz really needs to have a lower brand to work with... or maybe even expand SMART to include normal vehicles. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yeah, I could see a 3.0TT in place of the 3.6 in most cases.  I'd leave the 3.6NA in place for the XT5 as a base engine and the 3.0TT as a buy up engine. Make the 3.0TT the XTS's base engine with a buy up to the 3.6TT.  The 3.0TT would be detuned in both of these cases when it made the transition to transverse layout.  Buick could then have the 3.0TT as a buy up engine in the Lacrosse with the 3.6 as base. 

OK.. Agreed except the XT5 3.6L. I truly believe the better torque in the 2.0L.. with a lil more HP would be a better fit.. and then the 3.0TT upgrade. GM really needs to utilize the 3.0TT and 3.6TT more. As it stands.. they are wasting them. I also stand by my belief that the next ATS-V(CT3) should have an optional LT V8 even if its similar HP as the LF4.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

OK.. Agreed except the XT5 3.6L. I truly believe the better torque in the 2.0L.. with a lil more HP would be a better fit.. and then the 3.0TT upgrade. GM really needs to utilize the 3.0TT and 3.6TT more. As it stands.. they are wasting them. I also stand by my belief that the next ATS-V(CT3) should have an optional LT V8 even if its similar HP as the LF4.

You've gotta keep in mind the economies of scale.  If they do a hi-po transverse 2.0T, they need to find other places to use it.  If they do it in the XT5, then they've gotta put it in the Regal, Malibu, etc. 

Unless you're talking the normal 2.0T that they already build..... then I'd have to disagree.  I don't have high hopes for it in the Traverse.

[Cmicasa the Great]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes, the CLA is the cheapening of Benz.    Benz really needs to have a lower brand to work with... or maybe even expand SMART to include normal vehicles. 

Cheap and less refined than any Cruze  I think. Seriously.. which would U choose.. this

or This sexy thing

[David]

@Cmicasa the Great +1 I totally agree with you on the Chevy over the Benze!

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes... the handling was well regarded and on par with the Germans (because it was German).  The 3.0 was indeed weak, but DOHC humpers like @smk4565 had to have DOHC.  The main reason the 3800 wasn't used was that there was no 3800 production in Europe and these were built in Germany for US consumption. Before we ever got the Catera, Opel made a crazy for 1991 horsepower levels 372 HP / 411 lb-ft of torque 3.6 liter V6 Omega tuned by Lotus. 

I can see why it is a cult car across the pond!

36 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@Cmicasa the Great +1 I totally agree with you on the Chevy over the Benze!

Make that a plus 2, I agree also!

The CLA looks like a cold war era eastern European product next to that Cruze hatch!

59 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes, the CLA is the cheapening of Benz.    Benz really needs to have a lower brand to work with... or maybe even expand SMART to include normal vehicles. 

Given the cost of Smart car repalcemnt parts and the dismal reliability of Smart cars, no....just sadly no....

[oldshurst442]

About that Catera...

The Middle East got even BETTER versions of this car!

The Lumina SS

These had the Corvette's venerable 5.7 liter V8 under the hood in SS form! I don't know if it was the LT1 or the LS1, but yeah...V8!

Maybe Cadillac should have gone the V8 direction in North America too with the Catera.

Anybody read Arabic?  Anyway...there are numbers in the article down at the link that makes sense to my English eyes! Maybe they make sense to your English eyes too...just click on the link!

http://www.motiontrends.com/2001/m10/features/holden/holden.shtml

 

 

About the CLA not doing any damage to M-B's image...

All in due time.

When M-B OVER saturates the market full of CLA's and closer to mainstream C Class and E Class cars in North America along with the GLA and other MAINSTREAM offerings that play the pretend luxury card...you will see that damage...not now...in 5-10 years from now. And they will hurt as much as Cadillac is hurting now...

 

They walked away from this mess ONLY because dumb Americans  were  blinded by the love they have for German cars and the HATRED they have for American cars...but as Cadillac and Chevrolet offer BETTER cars for each and every price point Mercedes Benz offers...that hurt will come awfully soon! 

You see, American cars are getting better and better perceived by Americans themselves...

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Well yes... but those were larger versions of the car. 

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Well yes... but those were larger versions of the car. 

I did not know that.

I thought that the Omega, Catera, Commodore and the Middle Eastern Caprice and Lumina were all the same car. I mean...all the same wheel bases and such.

Internet...well, I did not have access to it then as I do know...

Nice to know.

Edited June 5, 2017 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

RE: the CLA- I'm actually surprised it's DOWN 43% on the year.
If you're going to make an obvious money grab off of your own image, at least get the car right!!
Kind of still shocked they went FWD on it; it's the same length as the ATS but it has NINE inches LESS legroom!

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

You see, American cars are getting better and better perceived by Americans themselves...

 

 

Funny, all but two of my neighbors that were never going to buy a domestic when I moved in to my house 15 years ago are now driving domestic cars.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

RE: the CLA- I'm actually surprised it's DOWN 43% on the year.
If you're going to make an obvious money grab off of your own image, at least get the car right!!
Kind of still shocked they went FWD on it; it's the same length as the ATS but it has NINE inches LESS legroom!

It is a shockingly dismal car....

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes, the CLA is the cheapening of Benz.    Benz really needs to have a lower brand to work with... or maybe even expand SMART to include normal vehicles. 

Pretty much every luxury brand starts in the low $30s, the difference is most max out at $100k or less, while Mercedes can still go over $200k.  The CLA is a relatively low volume Mercedes also, I don't think it is hurting them.  C-class sales are up since the CLA went on sale. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

RE: the CLA- I'm actually surprised it's DOWN 43% on the year.
If you're going to make an obvious money grab off of your own image, at least get the car right!!
Kind of still shocked they went FWD on it; it's the same length as the ATS but it has NINE inches LESS legroom!

Yet it sill outsells the ATS.  Because no one wants a Cadillac.  Because Cadillac has no image.  Because Cadillac doesn't have a flagship, super car, hyper car, convertible, GT car, or anything cool to lift the brand image, other than the Escalade, but those that think the Escalade is cool probably aren't shopping for small sedans.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

OK.. Agreed except the XT5 3.6L. I truly believe the better torque in the 2.0L.. with a lil more HP would be a better fit.. and then the 3.0TT upgrade. GM really needs to utilize the 3.0TT and 3.6TT more. As it stands.. they are wasting them. I also stand by my belief that the next ATS-V(CT3) should have an optional LT V8 even if its similar HP as the LF4.

Agreed and I agree on your earlier post about Cadillac using all turbos, except I would go turbo on the V-series also.  CTS-V is the only supercharger they have, they could make a twin turbo V8 for that, twin turbo V6 and V8 for Escalade and get the whole line turbocharged.  And to take it a step further, start to put in eAssist or a 48 volt battery system, to make all Cadillacs a mild hybrid around 2020.  

If they took a 2.0T and added on a 25 hp electric motor, then you are nearing 300 hp and lb-ft with it all working together, that is going to be a much better drive than the 3.6 and probably 15% better gas mileage.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You've gotta keep in mind the economies of scale.  If they do a hi-po transverse 2.0T, they need to find other places to use it.  If they do it in the XT5, then they've gotta put it in the Regal, Malibu, etc. 

Unless you're talking the normal 2.0T that they already build..... then I'd have to disagree.  I don't have high hopes for it in the Traverse.

They already make a 2.0T front drive, they could put that in a top end Malibu/Terrain/Equinox, an Impala, LaCrosse, in whatever crossover slots between Equinox and Traverse, can put it in Traverse.  I think for things like Acadia, Enclave, Cadillacs, you want maybe a 2.5 liter turbo 4, or a 2.0T hybrid of some sort, you need a little extra performance and refinement for the added price over a Chevy.

The quicker GM gets out of the 3.6 V6 the better.   Because the future is electrifying and engine downsizing.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

About the CLA not doing any damage to M-B's image...

All in due time.

When M-B OVER saturates the market full of CLA's and closer to mainstream C Class and E Class cars in North America along with the GLA and other MAINSTREAM offerings that play the pretend luxury card...you will see that damage...not now...in 5-10 years from now. And they will hurt as much as Cadillac is hurting now...

 

They walked away from this mess ONLY because dumb Americans  were  blinded by the love they have for German cars and the HATRED they have for American cars...but as Cadillac and Chevrolet offer BETTER cars for each and every price point Mercedes Benz offers...that hurt will come awfully soon! 

You see, American cars are getting better and better perceived by Americans themselves...

 

 

How are they going to over saturate the market when the CLA most months sells less than the S-class?   The GLA is their worst selling crossover.  C, E and GLE are the volume leaders of Mercedes, and those 3 lines are rock solid in their segments, and the S-class is like 40% market share in it's segment.  G-wagen is up this year, hyper car on the way.  The top end is strong as ever.

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Even if U have a GLA competitor.. it doesn't have to be as cheap looking.. as BITCH ASS looking as a the GLA. Seriously mo.. I see the GLA and I started feeling like a need to go hold a teddy bear. Its a bitch car.. and I mean like "frumpy wearing tennis shoes with a flowered dress bitch car."

That being said.. I could see U chiming in and saying U just bought one for yourself   

GLA looks not tall enough to be a crossover.  It looks like it got stepped on and squashed.  I will never buy a crossover for one, and two, I only want rear drive or AWD with a rear bias out of a longitudinal mount engine. 

[cp-the-nerd]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

About that Catera...

The Middle East got even BETTER versions of this car!

The Lumina SS

These had the Corvette's venerable 5.7 liter V8 under the hood in SS form! I don't know if it was the LT1 or the LS1, but yeah...V8!

Maybe Cadillac should have gone the V8 direction in North America too with the Catera.

Anybody read Arabic?  Anyway...there are numbers in the article down at the link that makes sense to my English eyes! Maybe they make sense to your English eyes too...just click on the link!

http://www.motiontrends.com/2001/m10/features/holden/holden.shtml

That's the Holden Commodore! It was also sold in coupe form called the Monaro, which was sold in the US as the Pontiac GTO. It had an LS1 until 2005 when they dropped the 6.0L LS2 under the hood.

Subsequent generations of the Commodore were sold stateside as well–I think you know where I'm going with this–as the Pontiac G8 and finally the Chevy SS!

[Drew Dowdell]

50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They already make a 2.0T front drive, they could put that in a top end Malibu/Terrain/Equinox, an Impala, LaCrosse, in whatever crossover slots between Equinox and Traverse, can put it in Traverse.  I think for things like Acadia, Enclave, Cadillacs, you want maybe a 2.5 liter turbo 4, or a 2.0T hybrid of some sort, you need a little extra performance and refinement for the added price over a Chevy.

The quicker GM gets out of the 3.6 V6 the better.   Because the future is electrifying and engine downsizing.

I was referring to a high octane, high performance variant. It would have to be power train certified which costs a lot of money. There would need to be some economy of scale to do that.

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GLA looks not tall enough to be a crossover.  It looks like it got stepped on and squashed.  I will never buy a crossover for one, and two, I only want rear drive or AWD with a rear bias out of a longitudinal mount engine. 

The mount of the engine has nothing to do with bias in an AWD system. Haldex has been able to send 90% of the power to the rear wheels for more than 10 years. Most modern AWD systems with even a whiff of a sports badge (Chrysler 200s, Focus RS, Regal GS) can do over 60%. 

[oldshurst442]

 

25 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

That's the Holden Commodore! It was also sold in coupe form called the Monaro, which was sold in the US as the Pontiac GTO. It had an LS1 until 2005 when they dropped the 6.0L LS2 under the hood.

Subsequent generations of the Commodore were sold stateside as well–I think you know where I'm going with this–as the Pontiac G8 and finally the Chevy SS!

 

Yeah. I wished we got the GTO up here in Canada. Id probably would have bought one instead of the 2005 Impala SS I traded my 1999 Olds Alero for.

All this discussion and Im getting all kinds of memories flooding in from this time period.

I got married on the 7th of June 2003. Yup...just a couple of days left for our 14th Wedding Anniversary.

 

Plus...this concept just entered my brain. What happened to this? It never materialized?

I just remember it had a decent horsepower rating that had me excited at the time, but the 300 HP STS was still the one I wanted!

[smk4565]

17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I was referring to a high octane, high performance variant. It would have to be power train certified which costs a lot of money. There would need to be some economy of scale to do that.

The mount of the engine has nothing to do with bias in an AWD system. Haldex has been able to send 90% of the power to the rear wheels for more than 10 years. Most modern AWD systems with even a whiff of a sports badge (Chrysler 200s, Focus RS, Regal GS) can do over 60%. 

Yes, but you don't get 50/50 weight balance with a fwd based car.  I'm sure a GLA/CLA can throw toque at the rear wheels too, but it isn't going to drive like an E-class.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

How are they going to over saturate the market when the CLA most months sells less than the S-class?   The GLA is their worst selling crossover.  C, E and GLE are the volume leaders of Mercedes, and those 3 lines are rock solid in their segments, and the S-class is like 40% market share in it's segment.  G-wagen is up this year, hyper car on the way.  The top end is strong as ever

Im beating a dead horse if I answer this one.

But Ill just show you pics instead.

 

 

All Mercedes cars that have engraved into our psyche that Mercedes Benz cars are simply engineered like no other! And Heads of State ride in them because simply the best they are!

 

You think that in the years 2000-2017, NOT PRE-WAR Europe, but at a time when Mercedes Benz should be at the top of the world catering to the stupendously rich, not the for the masses, should be offering these?

Rolls Royce...there was a time when Mercedes Benz was ON EQUAL footing with the likes of that 500K and 770K of Adolf Hitler....

 

You are the ONLY one that thinks that M-B is that high on the lux scale..

They could be....but not if they continue selling Cimarrons to the masses!

Sorry SMK....there are some things we agree on with Cadillac on why they fail often and there are things that we agree on why  Mercedes Benz succeeds....

But Im baffled as to why you think selling literally shoddy CLAs and B Classes to the masses IN NORTH AMERICA is a good viable strategy where North Americans were actually sheltered from seeing Mercedes-Benz be a  mainstream automaker in Europe!

This MAINSTREAM insanity in North America to gain volume is gonna hurt  M-B's image in the long run.

Its OK of you dont wanna see it...but THAT is 1 reason on how  Cadillac screwed the pooch. A Cadillac for all approach did not work out so well for Cadillac.

Hell, that strategy is starting to hurt BMW as of now....

Edited June 5, 2017 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

The CLA isn't shoddy, it has a very proven and durable 2.0T and 7-speed transmission, and they still have build quality. They just don't have everything wrapped in leather or with a Bang and Olufsun stereo.  The Sprinter has a spartan interior, but it has build quality that will let it last 300,000+ miles also.

The sweep tail Rolls-Royce is awesome, it is the sort of thing that Cadillac could try to get into, building super luxury sedans.  Mercedes can go against the Bentley Continental and Flying Spur with the Maybach S600 and the S65.  They can match up with anything Porsche has, and they are about to go above the LaFerrari with Project One, so I do think Mercedes is capable of going against anyone at the high end.

This is the game changer, no one will come close.

Edited June 6, 2017 by smk4565

[A Horse With No Name]

Why do we keep talking about every car on the planet other than the Cadillac in the OP?  I see a link to a 67 Grand Prix and discussion of exotic Rolls Royce and articles linked in Arabic.

This is not a zero sum game.

Both Mercedes Benz and Cadillac can succeed or fail.

Edited June 6, 2017 by A Horse With No Name

[Cmicasa the Great]

20 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Funny, all but two of my neighbors that were never going to buy a domestic when I moved in to my house 15 years ago are now driving domestic cars.

No doubt... my Lexus loving neighbor broke down last week.. literally in their '08 ES350. Saturday night I look outside and see them pull up in a brand new GMC Acadia.They have been asking me about my Yukon for a while.. and I thought they might go for the big Acadia.. nope. The NEW NEW Acadia is in their driveway

[David]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

  The Sprinter has a spartan interior, but it has build quality that will let it last 300,000+ miles also.

This I call BULLSHIT on as my brother In-law bought a diesel new for his appliance repair business and less then 100K miles the interior is broken to hell, the diesel engine has had to have major repairs by the Benze dealership and finally at 97K miles the Transmission has gone out. Yet his Ford and GM full size vans all have 2-300K miles and except for basic repairs for brakes, tires and a few other little things, neither the engines or transmissions have failed on him.

O'h last thing is the mounts of the rear dif to the cab for a 1 ton dually broke also and had to be replaced. I see more and more Ford, GM and RAM vans out in service than Sprinters and I see plenty on the used lot.

Sprinters are garbage and if they do last 300K miles not kilometers in Europe, then they are getting a better built van than the garbage they are here.

Every service person I have talked to that has had Sprinters hates them and thinks they are garbage. Definitely NOT WORLD CLASS BUILT!

[smk4565]

First off, a 2008 Lexus could not break down, that is a Camry engine, so it can go 500,000 without an oil change or any service of any kind, they are that good.

Seriously though, I think people are more willing to buy an American SUV than an American sedan.  Not sure why people give one a stigma and not the other.  I bet the Lexus driving neighbors wouldn't consider a LaCrosse or a CTS, partly because they would think a Lexus sedan is more reliable, yet they will buy an Acadia.  

This is a challenge Cadillac has to overcome to get sedan buyers back.   And the fact that a lot of people continued to buy American SUVs long after they swore off sedans for the CamCords even going back to the 90s, is all the more reason Cadillac needs more crossovers.  

[A Horse With No Name]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

This I call BULLSHIT on as my brother In-law bought a diesel new for his appliance repair business and less then 100K miles the interior is broken to hell, the diesel engine has had to have major repairs by the Benze dealership and finally at 97K miles the Transmission has gone out. Yet his Ford and GM full size vans all have 2-300K miles and except for basic repairs for brakes, tires and a few other little things, neither the engines or transmissions have failed on him.

O'h last thing is the mounts of the rear dif to the cab for a 1 ton dually broke also and had to be replaced. I see more and more Ford, GM and RAM vans out in service than Sprinters and I see plenty on the used lot.

Sprinters are garbage and if they do last 300K miles not kilometers in Europe, then they are getting a better built van than the garbage they are here.

Every service person I have talked to that has had Sprinters hates them and thinks they are garbage. Definitely NOT WORLD CLASS BUILT!

having worked in the trades for years I can second this so strongly.  Look at a large construction site...why do you see a bunch of twenty year old Ford and GM products but the only Sprinter is six months old?

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

First off, a 2008 Lexus could not break down, that is a Camry engine, so it can go 500,000 without an oil change or any service of any kind, they are that good.

Seriously though, I think people are more willing to buy an American SUV than an American sedan.  Not sure why people give one a stigma and not the other.  I bet the Lexus driving neighbors wouldn't consider a LaCrosse or a CTS, partly because they would think a Lexus sedan is more reliable, yet they will buy an Acadia.  

This is a challenge Cadillac has to overcome to get sedan buyers back.   And the fact that a lot of people continued to buy American SUVs long after they swore off sedans for the CamCords even going back to the 90s, is all the more reason Cadillac needs more crossovers.  

You are clinically insane if you think a 2008 Lexus will go a half million miles without an oil change.  I have friends that run Repair business with a foreign car specialty.  Lexus is not bullet proof.  They are multiple orders of magnitude better than the Mercedes Benz though.

[Cmicasa the Great]

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

First off, a 2008 Lexus could not break down, that is a Camry engine, so it can go 500,000 without an oil change or any service of any kind, they are that good.

Seriously though, I think people are more willing to buy an American SUV than an American sedan.  Not sure why people give one a stigma and not the other.  I bet the Lexus driving neighbors wouldn't consider a LaCrosse or a CTS, partly because they would think a Lexus sedan is more reliable, yet they will buy an Acadia.  

This is a challenge Cadillac has to overcome to get sedan buyers back.   And the fact that a lot of people continued to buy American SUVs long after they swore off sedans for the CamCords even going back to the 90s, is all the more reason Cadillac needs more crossovers.  

Taking any opportunity to call U out and insult U even tho I read your whole post and realize that U were joking about the Camry engine.. U are a FUCKIN Retard.. I owned a Camry back in the day and that son of a bitch, later a part of a massive recall for engine sludge, is part of the reason why I came back to American cars and have never looked back. The engine locked at 11K

No.. Altho he and his wife bought the Acadia.. a brand new untried redo.. his wife has several time asked me if she could take my Impala (and even my V.. which she'd have to do some serious stuff to do.. she's pushing 50 but still looks good) for a test.. each time coming back from the grocery store, me frantically awaiting.. with a smile on her face. Every time commenting on how much smoother, more refined, obviously more spacious, and better looking my CHEVY is than her luxury Toyota ES350. They needed an SUV. They kept the Camr... I mean ES350 because the trade in value was not what they wanted. The repair for its issues will probably run about $2900 as the head gasket need replacement as per their dealer, and another $1300 for new tires. The car does have 106K on the odo

[A Horse With No Name]

9 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Taking any opportunity to call U out and insult U even tho I read your whole post and realize that U were joking about the Camry engine.. U are a FUCKIN Retard.. I owned a Camry back in the day and that son of a bitch, later a part of a massive recall for engine sludge, is part of the reason why I came back to American cars and have never looked back. The engine locked at 11K

No.. Altho he and his wife bought the Acadia.. a brand new untried redo.. his wife has several time asked me if she could take my Impala (and even my V.. which she'd have to do some serious stuff to do.. she's pushing 50 but still looks good) for a test.. each time coming back from the grocery store, me frantically awaiting.. with a smile on her face. Every time commenting on how much smoother, more refined, obviously more spacious, and better looking my CHEVY is than her luxury Toyota ES350. They needed an SUV. They kept the Camr... I mean ES350 because the trade in value was not what they wanted. The repair for its issues will probably run about $2900 as the head gasket need replacement as per their dealer, and another $1300 for new tires. The car does have 106K on the odo

Irony of Ironies, my sons friend Paul has a 2008 ES 350 that blew both head gaskets.  He bought it dirt cheap when the previous owner did not want tor repair it.

At least a sexually indecent act could get your neighbor into a Cadillac...there are no sexual acts on the planet that could tempt me to spend my own money on a late model Benz.

They built some cool stuff in the 60's and 70's though.

11 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Taking any opportunity to call U out and insult U even tho I read your whole post and realize that U were joking about the Camry engine.. U are a FUCKIN Retard..

His strategy of lecturing us and making up data, and wild claims about Cadillac, seems rather less than rational at winning us over to German automobiles.

[Drew Dowdell]

I wouldn't mind owning a recent Benz as long as someone else is picking up the repair bills.

[balthazar]

Hypothetically speaking ~ wondering if last month's Cadillac model sales numbers will influence Cadillac to veer off any pursuit of vehicles smaller than the ATS and return to larger cars.

Yeah; not expecting such, but here's to hoping; modern "full size" vehicles are severely misnomered.

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I wouldn't mind owning a recent Benz as long as someone else is picking up the repair bills.

There are a lot of other cars I would prefer though.

30 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Hypothetically speaking ~ wondering if last month's Cadillac model sales numbers will influence Cadillac to veer off any pursuit of vehicles smaller than the ATS and return to larger cars.

Yeah; not expecting such, but here's to hoping; modern "full size" vehicles are severely misnomered.

One can hope.

[A Horse With No Name]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Seriously though, I think people are more willing to buy an American SUV than an American sedan.  Not sure why people give one a stigma and not the other.  I bet the Lexus driving neighbors wouldn't consider a LaCrosse or a CTS, partly because they would think a Lexus sedan is more reliable, yet they will buy an Acadia.  

 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by A Horse With No Name

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

having worked in the trades for years I can second this so strongly.  Look at a large construction site...why do you see a bunch of twenty year old Ford and GM products but the only Sprinter is six months old?

You are clinically insane if you think a 2008 Lexus will go a half million miles without an oil change.  I have friends that run Repair business with a foreign car specialty.  Lexus is not bullet proof.  They are multiple orders of magnitude better than the Mercedes Benz though.

It is a joke.  If you listen to any Toyota owner they think their car will never break and the Prius gets 150 mpg.

[Cmicasa the Great]

On a side here is the Acadia.. and here is what I'm currently driving after taking my V in for an Oil Change, tire balance.. and a recall for a fuse box sticker being incorrect... a new XT5 AWD. Thing has some giddy-up if U step.. seems loaded up pretty nice, with pano-sunroof. Still not a fan of Stop-Start... this is cool cause U can disable

 

 

[balthazar]

50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If you listen to any Toyota owner they think their car will never break and the Prius gets 150 mpg.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise you have no IDEA how shatteringly ironic your statement is.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Just now, balthazar said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise you have no IDEA how shatteringly ironic your statement is.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise you have no IDEA how shatteringly ironic your statement is.

Once again, I would upvote this by a hundred if I could...

10 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

On a side here is the Acadia.. and here is what I'm currently driving after taking my V in for an Oil Change, tire balance.. and a recall for a fuse box sticker being incorrect... a new XT5 AWD. Thing has some giddy-up if U step.. seems loaded up pretty nice, with pano-sunroof. Still not a fan of Stop-Start... this is cool cause U can disable

 

 

See if you had just bought a Lexus you could go another 475,000 miles before you needed an oil change...!

[Cmicasa the Great]

32 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

See if you had just bought a Lexus you could go another 475,000 miles before you needed an oil change...!

[David]

55 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Once again, I would upvote this by a hundred if I could...

See if you had just bought a Lexus you could go another 475,000 miles before you needed an oil change...!

Some how some people think anything german or asian can out last and out run an American product. Crazy but true.

[A Horse With No Name]

34 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Some how some people think anything german or asian can out last and out run an American product. Crazy but true.

Yes, an AMG Benz can outrun a Cruze...next please...!

[Cmicasa the Great]

38 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Some how some people think anything german or asian can out last and out run an American product. Crazy but true.

Its wild because the majority of the cars I see on the road over 20 years old are American. It might be a bad thing cause perception wise some of them looked rugged... even though they are all running. Saw a what had to be a 95 Buick Lesabre the other day..  The front bumper was held on by duct tape... And Lord knows I see old Cavaliers and S10 Blazers on the regular 

[A Horse With No Name]

13 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its wild because the majority of the cars I see on the road over 20 years old are American. It might be a bad thing cause perception wise some of them looked rugged... even though they are all running. Saw a what had to be a 95 Buick Lesabre the other day..  The front bumper was held on by duct tape... And Lord knows I see old Cavaliers and S10 Blazers on the regular 

In the rolling Junk yards of Ohio highways 80's and 90's American Iron is not uncommon...

 

 

Obviously this 247 Mile per hour Mustang proves how bad domestic cars really are....maybe he should be Fond of Honda?

[ykX]

8 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its wild because the majority of the cars I see on the road over 20 years old are American. It might be a bad thing cause perception wise some of them looked rugged... even though they are all running. Saw a what had to be a 95 Buick Lesabre the other day..  The front bumper was held on by duct tape... And Lord knows I see old Cavaliers and S10 Blazers on the regular 

Here is the statistics for the longest lasting cars currently on the road, it seems majority trucks are American but cars are Japanese:

https://blog.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-over-200000-miles

Trucks/SUVs:

1	Ford Expedition	5.7%
2	Toyota Sequoia	5.6%
3	Chevrolet Suburban	4.8%
4	Toyota 4Runner	4.7%
5	GMC Yukon XL	4.2%
6	Chevrolet Tahoe	3.5%
7	GMC Yukon	3.0%
8	Toyota Avalon	2.6%
9	Toyota Tacoma	2.5%
10	Honda Accord	2.3%
10	Honda Odyssey	2.3%
11	Chevrolet Silverado 1500	2.2%
12	Ford F-150	2.1%
13	GMC Sierra 1500	2.0%

Cars: 1.    Toyota Avalon      2    Honda Accord     2    Honda Odyssey    3    Ford Taurus     4    Chevrolet Impala     4    Toyota Camry     4    Nissan Maxima    5    Toyota Sienna     6    Honda Civic     6    Dodge Grand Caravan    6    Subaru Legacy     7    Nissan Quest     7    Subaru Outback     7    Toyota Prius   8    Mercedes-Benz S-Class     8    Subaru Forester

[Drew Dowdell]

I call shenanigans on the Tacoma.  That's only after they've had a full frame replacement due to rot.  One of my tenants who garaged his 7 year old Tacoma had to do the full frame replacement.  It was never right after that and he traded it on a Silverado.

[Cmicasa the Great]

18 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I call shenanigans on the Tacoma.  That's only after they've had a full frame replacement due to rot.  One of my tenants who garaged his 7 year old Tacoma had to do the full frame replacement.  It was never right after that and he traded it on a Silverado.

This... Toyota trucks and SUVs are known to have bodies and frames that rust right out from under and around the engine. Props to the engine lasting for 250K+, but if the rest of the car is crumbling away what the hell are U driving? My dad has a 1990 Chevy truck that has never been redone in any way (including the damn paint that is primer colored at this point) and well over 500K.. still running... Like a champ. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Both of my parents' F-150s are contributing to the numbers in that list though. 

[A Horse With No Name]

57 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

This... Toyota trucks and SUVs are known to have bodies and frames that rust right out from under and around the engine. Props to the engine lasting for 250K+, but if the rest of the car is crumbling away what the hell are U driving? My dad has a 1990 Chevy truck that has never been redone in any way (including the damn paint that is primer colored at this point) and well over 500K.. still running... Like a champ. 

My neighbors had an F150 that had that beat by that 425,000 miles we were talking about....i wanted to watch it hit a million, but they moved to another state.

20 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Both of my parents' F-150s are contributing to the numbers in that list though. 

As much as it pains me to admit that certain members and former members might be right about anything....the Ford F-150 is one heck of an amazing product.

I would  still prefer GMC please...preferably a dually with a diesel...

[surreal1272]

On 6/5/2017 at 8:46 PM, smk4565 said:

First off, a 2008 Lexus could not break down, that is a Camry engine, so it can go 500,000 without an oil change or any service of any kind, they are that good.

Seriously though, I think people are more willing to buy an American SUV than an American sedan.  Not sure why people give one a stigma and not the other.  I bet the Lexus driving neighbors wouldn't consider a LaCrosse or a CTS, partly because they would think a Lexus sedan is more reliable, yet they will buy an Acadia.  

This is a challenge Cadillac has to overcome to get sedan buyers back.   And the fact that a lot of people continued to buy American SUVs long after they swore off sedans for the CamCords even going back to the 90s, is all the more reason Cadillac needs more crossovers.  

As a former owner of a ES300, please allow me to tell you how completely full of crap you are if you think that engine can handle such neglect and is "that good". It isn't btw and I had six months of sludge to prove it.

[smk4565]

55 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

As a former owner of a ES300, please allow me to tell you how completely full of crap you are if you think that engine can handle such neglect and is "that good". It isn't btw and I had six months of sludge to prove it.

It is a joke.  because Toyota fans think their cars are maintenance free.