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Subaru News: 2018 Subaru BRZ tS and WRX STI RA Come With Added Performance for the U.S.

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1 minute ago, ykX said:

Unless, you need 4-door sedan, and there are better choices then Altima for $30k :)

Ohhhhh absolutely.  I wonder what I would buy if I were looking at a sedan for 30K new....

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6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ohhhhh absolutely.  I wonder what I would buy if I were looking at a sedan for 30K new....

I personally, would get Mazda 6 if I wanted something economical but fun (and I will get 6 Sport from my dad in 1-2 years to use as a daily driver), or if I wanted more power then probably either V6 Accord or Malibu with 2L turbo.  I

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12 minutes ago, ykX said:

I personally, would get Mazda 6 if I wanted something economical but fun (and I will get 6 Sport from my dad in 1-2 years to use as a daily driver), or if I wanted more power then probably either V6 Accord or Malibu with 2L turbo.  I

Of all of those choices, I would pick the Malibu with the 2.0 Turbo.  Not fond of the Accord styling, and the 6 has too much road noise for me for a sedan.

A Fusion would be a nice choice also, but depreciation is horrible on them here in Ohio.  My daughter works in auto claims for a local insurance company.  They have a running joke that if you sneeze on a focus it is totaled...because the residual values for the cars are so low.  fusion suffers from much of the same...

If I could go slightly used I think i would buy a Cadillac CTS or a Hemi equipped Charger.

Edited by A Horse With No Name

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@A Horse With No Name everybody has it is own needs and wants.  I drive almost 100 miles each day and put around 30k miles a year.  After, driving my current car for the last few years I came to a conclusion that next time around I need something cheap and economical as daily driver and then I will get a weekend/fun car to keep and not to destroy in 3-4 years. 

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40 minutes ago, ykX said:

@A Horse With No Name everybody has it is own needs and wants.  I drive almost 100 miles each day and put around 30k miles a year.  After, driving my current car for the last few years I came to a conclusion that next time around I need something cheap and economical as daily driver and then I will get a weekend/fun car to keep and not to destroy in 3-4 years. 

I can relate, I owned a ton of fun cars...55 Chevy 2 door, 57 Chevy 2 door Hard top, 70 Chevelle, 71 Chevelle, 66 mustang Fastback, two Miatas, a Mini Cooper S...by driving cheap daily drivers.

Mazda 3 and Cruze are both available cheap and get great mileage.  I hated selling the TDI Jetta back because I drive as much as you do and it was getting 50 MPG plus when I sold it back to VW.

Edited by A Horse With No Name

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1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

....so either beats the heck out of a fully loaded Altima...

See I like the Mustang exhaust note better...I find it deeper and more melodic...

...and you can tell that Challenger is not a Ford Mustang because it didn't hit anything leaving the parking lot...

But what did you think of the MB tone? Sucky right?

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56 minutes ago, ykX said:

@A Horse With No Name everybody has it is own needs and wants.  I drive almost 100 miles each day and put around 30k miles a year.  After, driving my current car for the last few years I came to a conclusion that next time around I need something cheap and economical as daily driver and then I will get a weekend/fun car to keep and not to destroy in 3-4 years. 

An observation from a different point of view is what Im about to do...

And Im not telling you what you should do or even suggesting what you should do...just discussing and having a....discussion...from a different angle...

What kind of "something cheap and economical as daily driver" are you thinking about?

Because if its something really cheap and mundane, like something of this nature

nissan_micra.JPG

Driving daily as much as you do which is 100 miles each day and around 30k miles a year...wouldnt it be in your daily driving pleasure's interest if your daily driver WAS a more or less a fun week-end warrior type car (AFFORDABLE) in the first place?

A VW Golf R  type car comes to mind...

210d1f5a79198c7e91264473f04bf300.jpg

Or a GTi....

It dont have to be the Audi S3....that is just stupid....

Or even a Subaru WRΧ type car..not even the STi...just the WRΧ

517196380c8a92cee92a44739892efbba21586ef

 

Οr if you are into higher displacement vehicles with more girth to them, there is a Challenger or Charger R/T...

What Im saying is that, if you are doing all that mileage, you might as well have your week-end fun during your WORK WEEK BYPASSING a second vehicle.

Unless of course you are the real deal car enthusiast and you track and race your cars.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I can relate, I owned a ton of fun cars...55 Chevy 2 door, 57 Chevy 2 door Hard top, 70 Chevelle, 71 Chevelle, 66 mustang Fastback, two Miatas, a Mini Cooper S...by driving cheap daily drivers.

Mazda 3 and Cruze are both available cheap and get great mileage.  I hated selling the TDI Jetta back because I drive as much as you do and it was getting 50 MPG plus when I sold it back to VW.

That is why I love the muscle car genre.

Family car benefits to haul families and their crap.

Affordable price if we stick to the original brand offerings in Chevy, Pontiac, Dodge and Plymouth.

And if I was to splurge a tad because of financial success, then an Olds 442 or Buick GS or even a modern Chrysler 300 SRT8 or 2017 Chevy SS does the job for me...no need for high roller cars for me...although today's world, the CTS V  or AMG style car seems to be the only way to have my  cake and eat it too with the V8 thing!

Daily driving needs and fun all-the-time persona (my personal style off fun) with me driving the car 24/7/365 without the need for a "week-end" car is with a muscle car.

The best I could have done in 2012 when I bought my car was the 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD.

The SH-AWD part is NOT because of winter in Quebec but because of the 300 or so NATURALLY ASPIRATED  V6 horses under the hood!

The FWD part is because of the Quebec winters, and the only way I got the  300 or so naturally aspirated horses was with the SH-AWD trim and configuration.

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

It then pushes the price point to where it would have to compete with the Golf R, 5.0 Mustang, V8 Camaro, WRX STI, Focus RS, and the like.  it would still be wildly out gunned.

35K will also buy a really nice used Vette or M series BMW.

The BRZ is a cheap light weight sports car, nothing more.  the funny thing is probably one decent amateur driver in 200 can drive a base Miata or BRZ to its full potential, and maybe 1 amateur driver in 500 can drive an Audi R8 or Corvette to its full potential.

In an alternative parallel universe, a bunch of sports cars and muscle cars are sitting around on internet forums complaining about the lack of talent and Cajones/ovaries of their owners/drivers.

"Gee if any of these humans had the skill and the nerve to keep their foot  in it and take that last apex at the limit...it's a wonder these humans can even breed...."

They could put at 250 hp turbo 4 in it and still keep the price under $30k.  Even the premium trim BRZ is $27k

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It is NOT this car's mission to be a high horsepower car although some want it that way.

OK...granted, the name of the game is to roll these off the shelf as much as possible so Toyota and Subaru might as well just give the damned  consumer what it wants!!! It is not as if this a super low production niche car. It is a niche car but it wasnt meant to be low production...

The so-called problem with this car aint even the horsepower rating...its a decent amount @ 205 horsepower. It really is the torque figures: 156 lb-ft @ 6400 rpm.  Even my ecoboosted 1.6 liter Fusion that is meant more for "fuel economy" has a higher torque rating at a lower RPM!!!

Id say even the Hyundai Genesis' coupe Turbo 4 cylinder rating of 275 HP and 275 Torques is what people want...

A 250HP/250 torque rating for the Toyobaru might seem a tad low since the Mustang Ecoboost is 310HP/320 Torque and the Camaro is 275HP/295 Torque. But 275/275 seems like a nice compromise since also the criteria for this car is not supposed to be a tire shredding pony car either!

Needless to say, I like this car a lot!

But in this realm of sports cars, Id take in order

Tied for 1st place

1. a)  For style and sexiness in that EΧACT colour scheme....maybe with a Cadillac ATS 2.0T swap!!!

2017-Fiat-124-Spider-Elaborazione-Abarth

 

1. b)  Yes in YELLOW!

f937785ae7d5d53f6b865100c379026cx.jpg

Or convertible

mustang-ecoboost-convertible-rs1.jpg

 

 

 

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I actually like the 124 just the way it is.  Also, would take the coupe over the convertible for the Mustang for several reasons.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

They could put at 250 hp turbo 4 in it and still keep the price under $30k.  Even the premium trim BRZ is $27k

Not really sure...the Premium BRZ I test drove last week was 29 k and they were not willing to negotiate much...

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

That is why I love the muscle car genre.

Family car benefits to haul families and their crap.

Affordable price if we stick to the original brand offerings in Chevy, Pontiac, Dodge and Plymouth.

And if I was to splurge a tad because of financial success, then an Olds 442 or Buick GS or even a modern Chrysler 300 SRT8 or 2017 Chevy SS does the job for me...no need for high roller cars for me...although today's world, the CTS V  or AMG style car seems to be the only way to have my  cake and eat it too with the V8 thing!

Daily driving needs and fun all-the-time persona (my personal style off fun) with me driving the car 24/7/365 without the need for a "week-end" car is with a muscle car.

The best I could have done in 2012 when I bought my car was the 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD.

The SH-AWD part is NOT because of winter in Quebec but because of the 300 or so NATURALLY ASPIRATED  V6 horses under the hood!

The FWD part is because of the Quebec winters, and the only way I got the  300 or so naturally aspirated horses was with the SH-AWD trim and configuration.

 

I absolutely love that configuration of Acura.

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

An observation from a different point of view is what Im about to do...

And Im not telling you what you should do or even suggesting what you should do...just discussing and having a....discussion...from a different angle...

What kind of "something cheap and economical as daily driver" are you thinking about?

Because if its something really cheap and mundane, like something of this nature

nissan_micra.JPG

Driving daily as much as you do which is 100 miles each day and around 30k miles a year...wouldnt it be in your daily driving pleasure's interest if your daily driver WAS a more or less a fun week-end warrior type car (AFFORDABLE) in the first place?

A VW Golf R  type car comes to mind...

210d1f5a79198c7e91264473f04bf300.jpg

Or a GTi....

It dont have to be the Audi S3....that is just stupid....

Or even a Subaru WRΧ type car..not even the STi...just the WRΧ

517196380c8a92cee92a44739892efbba21586ef

 

Οr if you are into higher displacement vehicles with more girth to them, there is a Challenger or Charger R/T...

What Im saying is that, if you are doing all that mileage, you might as well have your week-end fun during your WORK WEEK BYPASSING a second vehicle.

Unless of course you are the real deal car enthusiast and you track and race your cars.

 

 

 

 

 

Or buy a Miata in November when they go cheap.  Good for 250 k miles taken care of easy.

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4 hours ago, dfelt said:

But what did you think of the MB tone? Sucky right?

All I heard was a shop vac. Kind of liked it, inspiration for me to start up my table saw...which is an old American made Delta Unisaw. 

Amazing how a $500 used table saw sounds better than a 90 grand Benz.

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@oldshurst442 I drive now G37S sedan which is fun enough and fast enough but in about 3 years I put 100k on it, so I am over 130k miles right now and problems might start creeping up soon.  I do autocross occasionally but I don't want to do track days in my daily driver.  

So after I am done with Infiniti I am going to take my dad's Mazda 6 which is economical, while still fun to drive and then buy something fun for the weekend, autocross and hopefully track.

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2 minutes ago, ykX said:

@oldshurst442 I drive now G37S sedan which is fun enough and fast enough but in about 3 years I put 100k on it, so I am over 130k miles right now and problems might start creeping up soon.  I do autocross occasionally but I don't want to do track days in my daily driver.  

So after I am done with Infiniti I am going to take my dad's Mazda 6 which is economical, while still fun to drive and then buy something fun for the weekend, autocross and hopefully track.

If you are thinking track NC Miata 2006-2014.  You want something cheap enough to write off if you eat concrete. It does happen...

I have even seen cars wrecked during autocross. Used to race with the Troy Ohio Corvette club àt Kill Kare speedway in Dayton. Really clean black C4 ate the concrete wall hard during an autocross event.

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1 minute ago, ykX said:

@oldshurst442 I drive now G37S sedan which is fun enough and fast enough but in about 3 years I put 100k on it, so I am over 130k miles right now and problems might start creeping up soon.  I do autocross occasionally but I don't want to do track days in my daily driver.  

So after I am done with Infiniti I am going to take my dad's Mazda 6 which is economical, while still fun to drive and then buy something fun for the weekend, autocross and hopefully track.

There you go!!!

You a real deal car guy!!!

My definition of a real deal car guy is:

1. A guy that works on his cars or restores them and the like

2. A guy that tracks or races his cars

3. Does both of the above.

 

Yeah....YOUR angle makes a lot of sense.

Like @A Horse With No Name suggested, a used Miata or even a new one is EΧΑCTLY tailored for your needs. Or a C5/C6 Corvette if V8 power is what you crave. Or a used Porsche Caymen if something in between is better for your style or a Toyobaru...

And I see that my angle is also relevant because as you stated, a Mazda 6 IS a fun daily driver!!! :thumbsup:

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7 hours ago, ykX said:

Motor Trend just had Head to Head comparison between hardtop Miata and BRZ.  They mentioned many times how they enjoy these cars on twisty roads much more then any other high dollar/high horsepower cars they drove recently.  I guess  most people misunderstand joys of driving cars like that.  

To be honest, personally, when the time comes I probably will choose Mustang GT over the Miata, I would love to have them both but there something magical about having big V8 snarl.  Plus, having back seat for kids and bigger, more comfortable car are serious considerations.

 

There's no misunderstanding in how fun they are in such environments.

It's just that's not enough justification to put up with it's shortcomings in other areas.

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The C5 ZO6 is an insanely good car and available used at the same price as a used Miata...

The real cost of Automotive competition is the consumables though.  You may want to price out a set of tires for the Vette and for the Miata.  It may be an eye opener.

1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

There's no misunderstanding in how fun they are in such environments.

It's just that's not enough justification to put up with it's shortcomings in other areas.

I may be very willing to put up with it as I live in Ohio, plan on autocrossing it, and a hard top is easier to live with in some ways than a convertible.

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13 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The C5 ZO6 is an insanely good car and available used at the same price as a used Miata...

The real cost of Automotive competition is the consumables though.  You may want to price out a set of tires for the Vette and for the Miata.  It may be an eye opener.

I may be very willing to put up with it as I live in Ohio, plan on autocrossing it, and a hard top is easier to live with in some ways than a convertible.

Have to cut a hole in the hard top for me to fit in! :P It's OK, I just wear my sunglasses and get a little extra protein! :D 

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