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William Maley

BMW News: What Is In BMW's Future Product Pipeline?

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11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Wait, how could all 3 of those cars sell in identical numbers???

They don't but they outsell the ATS like 6 to 1.  JDN is going to go where he can compete and that is front drive crossovers.

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OHHHHHH; you mean 'sell as many', NOT 'build a competitive or better product'.

I was confused; most people are well aware that the most common thing doesn't necessarily mean the best thing. 
 

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5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OHHHHHH; you mean 'sell as many', NOT 'build a competitive or better product'.

I was confused; most people are well aware that the most common thing doesn't necessarily mean the best thing. 
 

Remember, sales volume is the only measure of best in SMK's view of the luxury market. 

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39 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Remember, sales volume is the only measure of best in SMK's view of the luxury market. 

I like to pretend I don't remember that, so I can occasionally bask in the wonder of the short-sightedness of such a mindset, all over again.

Edited by balthazar
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4 hours ago, balthazar said:

OHHHHHH; you mean 'sell as many', NOT 'build a competitive or better product'.

I was confused; most people are well aware that the most common thing doesn't necessarily mean the best thing. 
 

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.   Cheap, cramped interiors and a HUE, (Horrible User Interface), torqueless V6, refinement issues, etc.  The CTS back in 2006 sold better than what the ATS and CTS combined are selling now.  The competition passed them by.   The AMG cars constantly beat Cadillacs in magazine comparison tests, and AMG is just getting warmed up.  BMW better get their M division up to par, AMG is stomping them too and is now on to Porsche and Ferrari.  

Let's look at the next AMG car:

under 2800 lbs

1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 hybrid

1000+ horsepower

11,000+ rpm redline

4 electric motors

F1 pushrod suspension

 

BMW, Cadillac and Audi will never get there.

 

Edited by smk4565

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.

People DO BUY THEM. I don't get how you DON'T GET this.

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.   Cheap, cramped interiors and a HUE, (Horrible User Interface), torqueless V6, refinement issues, etc.  The CTS back in 2006 sold better than what the ATS and CTS combined are selling now.  The competition passed them by.   The AMG cars constantly beat Cadillacs in magazine comparison tests, and AMG is just getting warmed up.  BMW better get their M division up to par, AMG is stomping them too and is now on to Porsche and Ferrari.  

Let's look at the next AMG car:

under 2800 lbs

1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 hybrid

1000+ horsepower

11,000+ rpm redline

4 electric motors

F1 pushrod suspension

 

BMW, Cadillac and Audi will never get there.

 

WOW Lovely Bullshit of what you imagine AMG will build but has not done so to date.

Plus, you must have taken extra crack since you are now again with moving goal posts comparing AMG to the whole ATS / CTS line. 

Apples to Oranges or in your case, Germain to American.

So other than MB showing how many Badge Snob Idiots buy their products lets look at the facts of their auto's:

Rear leg room between ATS and it's equal german counterpart? 

Same!

Will not waste time listing so many more examples since we all have seen how you will move the goal post and flip to something else to play the do not look in my failed left hand, look at the shiny new bauble in my right hand.

If I did not know better, you have really taken after all the idiots in DC and around the country that has massive eclipse blinders on.

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AMG has already released those specs on the hypercar that goes on sale in 2018.

In almost any comparison test the C300 is near the top of the class, C63 has beaten ATS-V and M3 head on, the E43 just won a comparison test, I remember the E300 beating the CT6 in a Motor Trend compare last year.  Those 2 cars regardless of trim level are class leading.

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14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.   Cheap, cramped interiors and a HUE, (Horrible User Interface), torqueless V6, refinement issues, etc.  The CTS back in 2006 sold better than what the ATS and CTS combined are selling now.  The competition passed them by.   The AMG cars constantly beat Cadillacs in magazine comparison tests, and AMG is just getting warmed up.  BMW better get their M division up to par, AMG is stomping them too and is now on to Porsche and Ferrari.  

Let's look at the next AMG car:

under 2800 lbs

1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 hybrid

1000+ horsepower

11,000+ rpm redline

4 electric motors

F1 pushrod suspension

 

BMW, Cadillac and Audi will never get there.

 

But the pushrods!

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

AMG has already released those specs on the hypercar that goes on sale in 2018.

They'll sell like 12 of those hypercars.... it's not a business model. 

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2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

But the pushrods!

They'll sell like 12 of those hypercars.... it's not a business model. 

275 already sold out, I don't know why they don't make 500, why stop when you have people in line to buy it. 

What does become a business model is taking that hybrid system, and applying it to a more conventional engine, or taking the electric turbo from that car and putting in the E53 that is supposed to replace the E43. 

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48 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

275 already sold out, I don't know why they don't make 500, why stop when you have people in line to buy it. 

What does become a business model is taking that hybrid system, and applying it to a more conventional engine, or taking the electric turbo from that car and putting in the E53 that is supposed to replace the E43. 

They have to build the hybrid system for the lesser cars anyway. Building a hyper-super-duper car doesn't add any significant economies of scale. 

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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They have to build the hybrid system for the lesser cars anyway. Building a hyper-super-duper car doesn't add any significant economies of scale. 

Yes but they don't have to design something new, they already have most of that work done from the F1 car.  Speeds up the R&D time.  If they want to make an 800 hp AMG GT sedan, or an e-turbo C300 that is more efficient than the current car, it won't be that hard to do.

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2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Yes but they don't have to design something new, they already have most of that work done from the F1 car.  Speeds up the R&D time.  If they want to make an 800 hp AMG GT sedan, or an e-turbo C300 that is more efficient than the current car, it won't be that hard to do.

That still doesn't give it a sustainable business model. Even Rolls Royce moves 4,000 cars a year.

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3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That still doesn't give it a sustainable business model. Even Rolls Royce moves 4,000 cars a year.

Not every car Mercedes makes has to be profitable though.  They can build low volume one offs or loss leaders just for the sake of doing it.  At most car companies the bean counters will kill off a 6 wheel drive SUV or a Laundelet limo or a hyper car well before it even gets off the sketch pad.

And the hyper car might not even lose money, the powertrain development is already paid for and the $2 million price might cover the materials and production cost.  If it doesn't, Mercedes obviously doesn't care.

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13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Not every car Mercedes makes has to be profitable though.  They can build low volume one offs or loss leaders just for the sake of doing it.  At most car companies the bean counters will kill off...

Yet the beancounters killed off the unique-bodied Maybach 1.0 when it failed to make a profit.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Yet the beancounters killed off the unique-bodied Maybach 1.0 when it failed to make a profit.

That was a W140 chassis car, they were still selling when the W221 S-class was on sale with the same V12 and the Maybach was double the price.  I bet they had profit on the Maybach, but they had no reason to keep it going.  It was a failed experiment, and over reaction to BMW having Rolls, and VW having Bentley.

It made more sense to dump the Maybach brand rather than do another $400,000 sedan that won't sell and doesn't bring any cache to the Mercedes logo.   It is better to focus on the S-class as their ultimate sedan and offer the Maybach trim to bolster the S-class and the 3 point star.

Edited by smk4565

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Must've taken you HOURS to type those 5 words.

I did not quite comprehend what Balthy meant by that and I certainly did not understand what Mr. Moltar found so funny...until I saw who Balthy was quoting.

And even then...I did not fully get it...but then it hit me instantly! Delayed reaction.

Image result for Mr T laughing gif

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

That was a W140 chassis car, they were still selling when the W221 S-class was on sale with the same V12 and the Maybach was double the price.  I bet they had profit on the Maybach, but they had no reason to keep it going.  It was a failed experiment, and over reaction to BMW having Rolls, and VW having Bentley.

It made more sense to dump the Maybach brand rather than do another $400,000 sedan that won't sell and doesn't bring any cache to the Mercedes logo.   It is better to focus on the S-class as their ultimate sedan and offer the Maybach trim to bolster the S-class and the 3 point star.

I doubt Maybach was ever profitable, amount of marketing, parts numbers to material dies, assembly, so much goes into a model / brand segment and the hours of people working on it. I doubt they recovered to a break even point on selling auto's badges as Maybach.

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I did not quite comprehend what Balthy meant by that and I certainly did not understand what Mr. Moltar found so funny...until I saw who Balthy was quoting.

And even then...I did not fully get it...but then it hit me instantly! Delayed reaction.Image result for Mr T laughing gif

Yes I actually scanned SMK's response and did not pick it up at first either in his post.

That was a W140 chassis car, they were still selling when the W221 S-class was on sale with the same V12 and the Maybach was double the price.  I bet they had profit on the Maybach, but they had no reason to keep it going.  It was a failed experiment, and over reaction to BMW having Rolls, and VW having Bentley.

It made more sense to dump the Maybach brand rather than do another $400,000 sedan that won't sell and doesn't bring any cache to the Mercedes logo.   It is better to focus on the S-class as their ultimate sedan and offer the Maybach trim to bolster the S-class and the 3 point star.

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