August 2017: General Motors Co.

[smk4565]

I'll correct my statement then,  Camaro with bad interior and performance, Corvette with average interior and performance.      The Corvette has long been plagued by interior issues for like the past 30 years.  Which is why I also have long said Cadillac needs a sports car above the Corvette.   The Corvette's interior isn't worth $100-150k, at $50-100k with big V8 performance sure.  But for those that want a luxury car and a sports car, Cadillac has to do that.

[Cmicasa the Great]

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I'll correct my statement then,  Camaro with bad interior and performance, Corvette with average interior and performance.      The Corvette has long been plagued by interior issues for like the past 30 years.  Which is why I also have long said Cadillac needs a sports car above the Corvette.   The Corvette's interior isn't worth $100-150k, at $50-100k with big V8 performance sure.  But for those that want a luxury car and a sports car, Cadillac has to do that.

I've owned 5 of the last 7 generations of Corvette.. and the interior debate hit Corvette after the mid-80s versus a Porsche that normally cost minimum a 3rd more in price. Those times are not the case anymore. .. and the current C7 interior can easily stand up against a Porsche, and certainly the SL550 interior all day unless Designo is thrown in. 

BUT..like the Regal.. I would find it hard to believe U ever "sat" (cause that's all U ever do..)  in a new Camaro or Vette. Your words mean nothing. Shut the hell up. There are ENTHUSIASTS in the room

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I've owned 5 of the last 7 generations of Corvette.. and the interior debate hit Corvette after the mid-80s versus a Porsche that normally cost minimum a 3rd more in price. Those times are not the case anymore. .. and the current C7 interior can easily stand up against a Porsche, and certainly the SL550 interior all day unless Designo is thrown in. 

BUT..like the Regal.. I would find it hard to believe U ever "sat" (cause that's all U ever do..)  in a new Camaro or Vette. Your words mean nothing. Shut the hell up. There are ENTHUSIASTS in the room

The fact that some feel like only the last 20 years of history is relevant in the car world, should tell you all you need to know. German interiors were $h! in the 80s, got a little better in the 90s (mainly BMW and Audi here) and then the others (Porsche and MB) caught up and started putting interiors that actually matched the outrageous prices of said cars. Benz and Porsche did not have interiors to write home about until the 2000s. Those who doubt this or have sudden amnesia to history should really do a few simple Google searches on the matter. 

[David]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I'll correct my statement then,  Camaro with bad interior and performance, Corvette with average interior and performance.      The Corvette has long been plagued by interior issues for like the past 30 years.  Which is why I also have long said Cadillac needs a sports car above the Corvette.   The Corvette's interior isn't worth $100-150k, at $50-100k with big V8 performance sure.  But for those that want a luxury car and a sports car, Cadillac has to do that.

Your WACK and Have Clearly NO IDEA of the current Corvettes. Yes in the 80's the Interiors were average to less than and no longer. They are right there with the best.

Pull yourself out of the MB Coolaid and Go Test Drive the current crop of Auto's, take a go pro and record your test drive and review of the auto so we can really see these poor interiors your talking of.

[ccap41]

For a 100k+ car they aren't anything to write home about. For their entry price of 60k or so they're very good. It all depends what you're spending if it's competitive or not. 

IMO, for Z06 pricing they're not very great interiors. But when you drop the price to their base of around 60k they're a very good interior. Looking at a 911/C63/M4 vs Z06 for interior design and build quality the Vette looks slightly out of place but a Vette at 60k and a GT350 at 60k and now the Vette looks very good. It's all perspective. This has nothing to do with performance as a Z06 will eat all of those up. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by ccap41

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

For a 100k+ car they aren't anything to write home about. For their entry price of 60k or so they're very good. It all depends what you're spending if it's competitive or not. 

IMO, for Z06 pricing they're not very great interiors. But when you drop the price to their base of around 60k they're a very good interior. Looking at a 911/C63/M4 vs Z06 for interior design and build quality the Vette looks slightly out of place but a Vette at 60k and a GT350 at 60k and now the Vette looks very good. It's all perspective. This has nothing to do with performance as a Z06 will eat all of those up. 

Sorry bro.. the M4 and C63 are not that great as far as interiors to make the statement U did. While the 911 has a slightly nicer interior than the Vette.. it is only SLIGHT.. and for about an average of $20K more I'd expect it. 

[David]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

For a 100k+ car they aren't anything to write home about. For their entry price of 60k or so they're very good. It all depends what you're spending if it's competitive or not. 

IMO, for Z06 pricing they're not very great interiors. But when you drop the price to their base of around 60k they're a very good interior. Looking at a 911/C63/M4 vs Z06 for interior design and build quality the Vette looks slightly out of place but a Vette at 60k and a GT350 at 60k and now the Vette looks very good. It's all perspective. This has nothing to do with performance as a Z06 will eat all of those up. 

You can say this about any auto out there. Perfect example is I am still suprised by the amount of rusty parts on the top of the line Mustang's. I love the Mustang as much as the Camaro and yet the Mustang for the money on their top of the line versions has rusty parts that should never be found and yet Ford does this over and over.

Same with MB and BMW, I am always surprised to find short cut corners from the interior to the exterior and I can do the same with GM. Way to many places you can nitpick about an auto.

In this case, SMK clearly has not been in a current corvette for say the last 30 years of his life if ever.

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

You can say this about any auto out there. Perfect example is I am still suprised by the amount of rusty parts on the top of the line Mustang's. I love the Mustang as much as the Camaro and yet the Mustang for the money on their top of the line versions has rusty parts that should never be found and yet Ford does this over and over.

Same with MB and BMW, I am always surprised to find short cut corners from the interior to the exterior and I can do the same with GM. Way to many places you can nitpick about an auto.

In this case, SMK clearly has not been in a current corvette for say the last 30 years of his life if ever.

The C5 and C6 were not good interiors. They were Old GM and very plastic-y and rattly for what you're paying for.  

Yes, that's my point though. You can say that about any car and when you're spending 100K+ on a auto the interior should match it, same with top of the line Mustangs. When the GT500 comes out and is priced at something stupid like 70k or whatnot.. it's still rocking a sub 30k car's interior with leather. Their performance is the only thing making them worth buying once they reach a certain level, and that's perfectly OKAY! It's just ridiculous to think they're on par with other 70k cars(GT500) and 100k+ cars(Z06) when you strictly look at their interiors. They've both decided to dump serious cash into R&D of their drivelines and suspensions to make them great values when compared to other 70k and 100k+ cars. 

[David]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The C5 and C6 were not good interiors. They were Old GM and very plastic-y and rattly for what you're paying for.  

Yes, that's my point though. You can say that about any car and when you're spending 100K+ on a auto the interior should match it, same with top of the line Mustangs. When the GT500 comes out and is priced at something stupid like 70k or whatnot.. it's still rocking a sub 30k car's interior with leather. Their performance is the only thing making them worth buying once they reach a certain level, and that's perfectly OKAY! It's just ridiculous to think they're on par with other 70k cars(GT500) and 100k+ cars(Z06) when you strictly look at their interiors. They've both decided to dump serious cash into R&D of their drivelines and suspensions to make them great values when compared to other 70k and 100k+ cars. 

I get the point your making, nice.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

1) The C5 and C6 were not good interiors. They were Old GM and very plastic-y and rattly for what you're paying for.  

2) Yes, that's my point though. You can say that about any car and when you're spending 100K+ on a auto the interior should match it, same with top of the line Mustangs. When the GT500 comes out and is priced at something stupid like 70k or whatnot.. it's still rocking a sub 30k car's interior with leather. Their performance is the only thing making them worth buying once they reach a certain level, and that's perfectly OKAY! It's just ridiculous to think they're on par with other 70k cars(GT500) and 100k+ cars(Z06) when you strictly look at their interiors. They've both decided to dump serious cash into R&D of their drivelines and suspensions to make them great values when compared to other 70k and 100k+ cars. 

1) And again... U are simply wrong.. at least in part. The C6 interior was never rattly.. and in truth once U got into 3LZ level a very comparable interior to the 911 Cayman S if not better. Believe me.. as I had plenty of Porsche guys who used to comment on the fact that my C6 interior was actually nicer than theirs.  

2) Yeah.. the American companies have definitely put money into delivering a very competitive, if not world beating, bunch of engineering. That does not negate the fact that they also have improved their interiors to the point of not only being competitive but in some cases better than more expensive counterparts from abroad. 

No offense.. the comments U made earlier are almost ad lib MOTOR TREND BS. I always kno when conversing.. what U are gonna say about certain GM products before U say it. Talk about ATS.. CCAP is gonna bring up the back seat room. Talk about the Corvette.. he's gonna bring up the old interiors from generations gone by.. bring up the old C5 Camaro.. he's gonna say it looked "cartoony" when it debuted

 

[ccap41]

Spoken like a true fanboy. 

Let me Google 911 Cayman S real quick and see what pops up... 

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Spoken like a true fanboy. 

Let me Google 911 Cayman S real quick and see what pops up... 

OH.. I am a Corvette/GM FAN BOI all day every day. But I also have historically backed up my mouth with CASH.. and taken the time to drive and talk to cats who own the very cars that mine compete with. Tell me.. when was the last time U took a Vette for a 100mph+ spin then hopped out and got the keys of your boy's 911 or M3 and drove his at 100mph+? I will give Porsche, BMW, and even Benz props for performance.. but some of the BS yall come up with to try and put down the GM products is ignorant as it is wrong.

So yeah U Google that.. because U simply don't kno from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. 

Here is a GOOGLED pic of the $75K STINGRAY.. not even a GS or Z06.. interior. And U tell me.. How is the $85K GT4 interior 'better?'

[Cmicasa the Great]

.. they even damn near share the same steering wheel

[ccap41]

20 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

OH.. I am a Corvette/GM FAN BOI all day every day. But I also have historically backed up my mouth with CASH.. and taken the time to drive and talk to cats who own the very cars that mine compete with. Tell me.. when was the last time U took a Vette for a 100mph+ spin then hopped out and got the keys of your boy's 911 or M3 and drove his at 100mph+? I will give Porsche, BMW, and even Benz props for performance.. but some of the BS yall come up with to try and put down the GM products is ignorant as it is wrong.

So yeah U Google that.. because U simply don't kno from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. 

Here is a GOOGLED pic of the $75K STINGRAY.. not even a GS or Z06.. interior. And U tell me.. How is the $85K GT4 interior 'better?'

Or, they're universal opinions by everybody except fanboys. 

And in what world are those steering wheels almost the same? Why are you comparing a Cayman to a Vette, isn't the Vette supposed to whoop up on the 911? Why bring it down to the level of a Cayman? Cayman is Camaro level of performance, which the Camaro stomps in the dirt. 

As I've already said, for 60k they're very good. For 100k+ for the Z06(which they're the same minus maybe some Z06 badge stitching here and there) they're not as high quality as a 100k Porsche, Merc, or BMW. Sorry to burst your fanboy bubble but that's just how it goes.  They're not actually a $h! interior but they're not as high quality as other 100k cars. 

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

U are so full of shit its hard for even U to keep up.. first the interior of the Vette is "average... " now its "bad.." only a paragraph away. What makes it worse is that the Corvette C7 interior all around has been winning constantly among buyers and reviewers. The Camaro.. has a damn nice interior as well. I don't even have to bring prices into the conversation.. . IMO.. so much nicer than this CLUSTER FUCK.. from Benz in a Sports car that cost $60-80K more than the Chevys. FUCK FUCK FUCK that WHORE of a Benz.

Please do not dignify Benz with obscenity, it is not worth the time.

Besides, Corvette has been in production for how long with its interior...? Since 1953?  And GM has sold how many?

 

Besides, today is my birthday...Camaro was introduced on either the 11th or 12 of September 1966...they have had plenty of buyers since...

22 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

An EV Trax would make a ton of sense for the big city crowd. 

I would buy one.

[A Horse With No Name]

10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

The fact that some feel like only the last 20 years of history is relevant in the car world, should tell you all you need to know. German interiors were $h! in the 80s, got a little better in the 90s (mainly BMW and Audi here) and then the others (Porsche and MB) caught up and started putting interiors that actually matched the outrageous prices of said cars. Benz and Porsche did not have interiors to write home about until the 2000s. Those who doubt this or have sudden amnesia to history should really do a few simple Google searches on the matter. 

And I as the foreign car fan here will tell you flat out I don't find Porsche interiors anything to write home about, even as late as five or ten years ago.

However, flat out...hmmmm..take that flat six out and drop in a GM V8....a popular swap for Porsche.

[David]

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Or, they're universal opinions by everybody except fanboys. 

And in what world are those steering wheels almost the same? Why are you comparing a Cayman to a Vette, isn't the Vette supposed to whoop up on the 911? Why bring it down to the level of a Cayman? Cayman is Camaro level of performance, which the Camaro stomps in the dirt. 

As I've already said, for 60k they're very good. For 100k+ for the Z06(which they're the same minus maybe some Z06 badge stitching here and there) they're not as high quality as a 100k Porsche, Merc, or BMW. Sorry to burst your fanboy bubble but that's just how it goes.  They're not actually a $h! interior but they're not as high quality as other 100k cars. 

 Are you sure he is a FanBoi and not a FanMan?  

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

 Are you sure he is a FanBoi and not a FanMan?  

Yes.

lol FanMan would act in a...different...way. 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

 Are you sure he is a FanBoi and not a FanMan?  

As far as fan boi goes, one can imagine the feeling SMK's college room mate had when the bunk started shaking four foot  below him every time a new Benz brochure showed up.

[Cmicasa the Great]

16 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Please do not dignify Benz with obscenity, it is not worth the time.

Besides, Corvette has been in production for how long with its interior...? Since 1953?  And GM has sold how many?

 

Besides, today is my birthday...Camaro was introduced on either the 11th or 12 of September 1966...they have had plenty of buyers since...

I would buy one.

Happy Birthday Bro

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

Happy Birthday Bro

Thanks!

57 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

OH.. I am a Corvette/GM FAN BOI all day every day. But I also have historically backed up my mouth with CASH.. and taken the time to drive and talk to cats who own the very cars that mine compete with. Tell me.. when was the last time U took a Vette for a 100mph+ spin then hopped out and got the keys of your boy's 911 or M3 and drove his at 100mph+? I will give Porsche, BMW, and even Benz props for performance.. but some of the BS yall come up with to try and put down the GM products is ignorant as it is wrong.

So yeah U Google that.. because U simply don't kno from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. 

Here is a GOOGLED pic of the $75K STINGRAY.. not even a GS or Z06.. interior. And U tell me.. How is the $85K GT4 interior 'better?'

There are elements of both that I like...!

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

I get the point your making, nice.  

If your finding things to complain about rather than enjoying what fantastic choices we now ahve you are not an enthusiast.  In fact, your making yourself miserable.

Besides, if you are worried about the interior plastics on a Vette or Shelby Mustang while driving it you are doing something very, very wrong.

[Cmicasa the Great]

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yes.

lol FanMan would act in a...different...way. 

Oh no.. I'm a boy.. much better than what I think U are slick. As for the Cayman vs the 911 interiors.. I did so based on PRICE.. and the Cayman GT4 still being $10K more than the STINGRAY

 The $110K 911 Carrera 4S interior below better fuckin be a step up from a $75K Stingray.. yet.. its not.

If I have to tell U why U really .. U kno what.. I'm not gonna insult U. It obvious why the Carrera 4S interior would be slightly better. 

[David]

@A Horse With No Name

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

[Cmicasa the Great]

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Thanks!

There are elements of both that I like...!

If your finding things to complain about rather than enjoying what fantastic choices we now ahve you are not an enthusiast.  In fact, your making yourself miserable.

Besides, if you are worried about the interior plastics on a Vette or Shelby Mustang while driving it you are doing something very, very wrong.

Quite a few are not IMO.. The nice interiors aside.. what enthusiasts gets into a 450+ HP - 700HP supercar and fondles the dashboard to the point of it needing therapy like some of these cats?

[David]

9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

If you're finding things to complain about rather than enjoying what fantastic choices we now have you are not an enthusiast.  In fact, you're making yourself miserable.

Besides, if you are worried about the interior plastics on a Vette or Shelby Mustang while driving it you are doing something very, very wrong.

 I never am Miserable, I love all I drive and enjoy all the choices we have. Just the OCD in me pays attention to the details far more than others and I expect a car to start out rust free. Sadly I have noticed that many various OEM builders seem to start a new auto out with rusty parts that I have to question.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

For a 100k+ car they aren't anything to write home about. For their entry price of 60k or so they're very good. It all depends what you're spending if it's competitive or not. 

IMO, for Z06 pricing they're not very great interiors. But when you drop the price to their base of around 60k they're a very good interior. Looking at a 911/C63/M4 vs Z06 for interior design and build quality the Vette looks slightly out of place but a Vette at 60k and a GT350 at 60k and now the Vette looks very good. It's all perspective. This has nothing to do with performance as a Z06 will eat all of those up. 

I agree with this.  There is good value in the Corvette at the low end because you are buying performance and not a luxury car.  At $100k or more you have added performance only usable on a race track and now you still have an interior that was acceptable at $60k but isn't worth $100k.

[ccap41]

21 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Besides, if you are worried about the interior plastics on a Vette or Shelby Mustang while driving it you are doing something very, very wrong.

I agree and that's why I said it is clear they put more R&D cash into how they actually drive and the performance they put down. 

[ccap41]

15 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

The $110K 911 Carrera 4S interior below better f@#kin be a step up from a $75K Stingray.. yet.. its not.

WTF are you picking Carrera 4S prices for? Carerras start at 91k 

And this goes exactly to what I said in the beginning which managed to trigger you, it's all perspective. It depends what you want. If you want a car that spanks cars twice/thrice/four times as much? Buy a Vette/Z06/ZL1/Shelby. If you want something that will do a little more pampering and is likely quieter inside, get a similarly priced Benz/BMW/Porsche. To keep up with the above listed cars one has to easily spend double the cash in Germany if not as much as 4 times in the case of the ZL1 besting Mclarens. 

[surreal1272]

45 minutes ago, dfelt said:

 I never am Miserable, I love all I drive and enjoy all the choices we have. Just the OCD in me pays attention to the details far more than others and I expect a car to start out rust free. Sadly I have noticed that many various OEM builders seem to start a new auto out with rusty parts that I have to question.

I am the same way, as far as the OCD habit goes. Take this floating screen trend. It would drive me bat$h! insane to have to worry about the amount of dust that collects behind one of those, not to mention the ergomnic issues i would have with it. I'm not a clean freak but the dust drives me nuts while i live in the dustiest state in the country lol!

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I agree with this.  There is good value in the Corvette at the low end because you are buying performance and not a luxury car.  At $100k or more you have added performance only usable on a race track and now you still have an interior that was acceptable at $60k but isn't worth $100k.

So what's Mercedes excuse for their price jumps, when we are talking about the same performance jump (i.e. AMGs with the same interiors as the lower end models). You're just paying for racing performance there as well so why is it okay for Benz and not GM?

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

WTF are you picking Carrera 4S prices for? Carerras start at 91k 

And this goes exactly to what I said in the beginning which managed to trigger you, it's all perspective. It depends what you want. If you want a car that spanks cars twice/thrice/four times as much? Buy a Vette/Z06/ZL1/Shelby. If you want something that will do a little more pampering and is likely quieter inside, get a similarly priced Benz/BMW/Porsche. To keep up with the above listed cars one has to easily spend double the cash in Germany if not as much as 4 times in the case of the ZL1 besting Mclarens. 

Because that's the one I have driven. I have never driven a regular Carrera so I don't know what the interior looks like. Sorry. I wish I was more of a MAGAZINE RACER like U.. instead of an ACTUAL EXPERIENCE ONE. 

Also.. are U telling me that the $91K regular Porsche should't still be better in the interior than $75K Vette? That is still a whopping $11K more for the guys at Porsche to work with in interior.. yet they still barely manage to equal the Stingray. I didn't say the Z06.. I didn't even say the GS 4Godsake.

and to the luxo point.. if Cadillac produces a variant of the C8.. then I have no doubt in my mind that in terms of luxo/performance.. we are going to see another CTS-V vs E63AMG moment again

 

 

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Because that's the one I have driven. I have never driven a regular Carrera so I don't know what the interior looks like. Sorry. I wish I was more of a MAGAZINE RACER like U.. instead of an ACTUAL EXPERIENCE ONE. 

Also.. are U telling me that the $91K regular Porsche should't still be better in the interior than $75K Vette? That is still a whopping $11K more for the guys at Porsche to work with in interior.. yet they still barely manage to equal the Stingray. I didn't say the Z06.. I didn't even say the GS 4Godsake.

and to the luxo point.. if Cadillac produces a variant of the C8.. then I have no doubt in my mind that in terms of luxo/performance.. we are going to see another CTS-V vs E63AMG moment again

 

 

omg... you're just so damn stubborn sometimes. I've said it like 3-4 times now but I'll make the font bold so maybe you actually read what I'm saying. 

I'm not saying they have a bad interior(current gen). I'm saying for the money when you are entering the 100k club, they aren't up to snuff but when you're talking 60-80k range they are still very good. It is all dependent on what the owner wants out of a car. All out performance? Obviously Vette/ZL1/Shelby but as those cars approach 100k their interiors look worse and worse next to their similarly priced competition. But they light up almost everything when talking performance metrics. That why I said it is all perspective and what the owner/buyer wants. 

I'm not just talking shet on GM. You mentioned my knocking on the ATS earlier and while I admit there are downfalls they aren't enough to stop me from wanting one.  "Oh nooooo, a Ferd guy wants a GM?!?!?" 

[David]

Very Cool info and pics on the upcoming C8

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-c7-zr1-c8-zora-expect/

Loved this from the story:

"Although not confirmed, a Cadillac sports car based on the mid-engine Corvette is believed to be under development. GM has trademarked the Manta Ray name for a performance variant of the C8 and E-Ray for a performance hybrid."

I really Hope the e-Ray is for a pure EV version rather than a Hybrid.

 

[balthazar]

Wonder if the 4.0TT is slated for the Corvette and the CT6 will still get a bored 4.2TT.

[smk4565]

Few things since I don't want to quote everyone.

On Corvette interiors, remember them the XLR came out with a better than Corvette interior and fell flat on its face vs Jaguar and Mercedes and whatever else they tried to compete with?  The C6 had a worse interior than the XLR and the XLR didn't make it against luxury brands.

I think the C7 interior is fine for the $60-90k range when you get over $100k I think it is out of steam.  Think of it this way, is the Corvette interior better than a CT6 Platinum?  Because the top end buyers in the $100-200k range will demand more than CT6 luxury combined with high level performance.  

[surreal1272]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Few things since I don't want to quote everyone.

On Corvette interiors, remember them the XLR came out with a better than Corvette interior and fell flat on its face vs Jaguar and Mercedes and whatever else they tried to compete with?  The C6 had a worse interior than the XLR and the XLR didn't make it against luxury brands.

I think the C7 interior is fine for the $60-90k range when you get over $100k I think it is out of steam.  Think of it this way, is the Corvette interior better than a CT6 Platinum?  Because the top end buyers in the $100-200k range will demand more than CT6 luxury combined with high level performance.  

Literally everything you just said about the Vette can be applied to every German make, i.e. The huge price difference between an SL and an AMG SL with the same EXACT same interior. How many times do you have to be told this before you understand the fallacy of your argument?

[Cmicasa the Great]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Few things since I don't want to quote everyone.

On Corvette interiors, remember them the XLR came out with a better than Corvette interior and fell flat on its face vs Jaguar and Mercedes and whatever else they tried to compete with?  The C6 had a worse interior than the XLR and the XLR didn't make it against luxury brands.

I think the C7 interior is fine for the $60-90k range when you get over $100k I think it is out of steam.  Think of it this way, is the Corvette interior better than a CT6 Platinum?  Because the top end buyers in the $100-200k range will demand more than CT6 luxury combined with high level performance.  

XLR was a fantastic car but its issues had more to do with a polarizing A&S look up against more classical looking competitors. Furthermore.. the drive-train of the XLR was smoother than, but not as powerful as the C6. The XLR was on a C5 Platform.. during the time the C6 was new to the GM fold when it should have been the C6 Platform before the Corvette arrived. Also the Cadillac XLR was a failure because of the TIME that GM put it out and the necessary investment dollars that were needed to make it work. Those things on top of the their choices of engines not being powerful enough to keep up across the board with the Benz SL and BMW 6Series. They took a great deal of the dynamics of the C5 and left the one thing that may have saved the XLR.. the LS1 as a base engine at launch. All that being said.. the part about "GM at the right time" refers to 2005-2009 when the C6 was now out.. (XLR was still sitting on C5 platform) with an LS2 and then an LS3.. LS7 and LS9.. hell even the debut of the CTS-V with the 556HP LSA while the last XLR-V still had the 443HP SC Northstar in it. IF that doesn't show the writing on the wall at the time I don't kno what does.

This time the CTS-V got the SAME engine the Z06 had. The difference in 10HP power between the CTS-V and Z06 will be attributed to less aggressive exhaust systems in the luxo versus the sports car. This formula would be the perfect solution for Cadillac and a new "XLR." What I see happening tho might also prove fine if.. the Corvette Team.. GM's real performance developers and Cadillac Team.. GM's real luxo developers.. collaborate in merging the two with the C8 Mid-Engine's DOHC Turbo engine. That engine must boast proper HP and NVH for both cars. GM must see the numbers as a whole.. not as two separate profit centers. Meaning the Cadillac sales would be the gravy on top of an already profitable Vette one.. like the Tahoe vs the Escalade.. literally that model. In fact.. this should be the formula for all Cadillacs. Being that all Cadillacs be a variant of what's over a Chevy's top end vehicles. Eg. CT3/CT5=Camaro, CT6/CT8=Impala/Caprice, Tahoe/Subur=Escalade, XT5=Equinox, XT6=Trailblazer etc. No issues over at VW/Audi or Toy/Lexus doing this. BMW and Mercedes don't have this advantage so all their cars have to be one-offs

Back to the XLR vs say a SL.. the Cadillac was a better looking car, imo.. but more polarizing and new age. Also.. Cadillac should have not went gimmicky on the top.. and opted for a soft-top like the rest and saved the HARD TOP for an option. The interior was the same.. but I think the angles and such threw some potential buyers off. Ironically 12 years later.. I think the Cadillac interior would still work.. while the Benz one shows its age

[ccap41]

That center stack/console looks atrocious. The instrument cluster looks great, even though it looks like it is out of a LT1 Camaro.

[smk4565]

I liked the XLR 's looks but the interior had cheap materials and with the 320 hp base engine didn't make it worth $77,000 at the time.  With a better interior and more motor it could have worked.  The SL has 302 hp base back then but they also had a 600 hp V12 and the C6 Vette had 500 hp then.  The XLR's problem was it was slower than a Corvette and cost way more with little interior upgrade.

They should learn from that though and do another Cadillac sports car above the Corvette.  The Cadillac brand is dying and about to be a bunch of dressed up Chevy crossovers, which is the state of Lincoln right now.

[surreal1272]

14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I liked the XLR 's looks but the interior had cheap materials and with the 320 hp base engine didn't make it worth $77,000 at the time.  With a better interior and more motor it could have worked.  The SL has 302 hp base back then but they also had a 600 hp V12 and the C6 Vette had 500 hp then.  The XLR's problem was it was slower than a Corvette and cost way more with little interior upgrade.

They should learn from that though and do another Cadillac sports car above the Corvette.  The Cadillac brand is dying and about to be a bunch of dressed up Chevy crossovers, which is the state of Lincoln right now.

Good grief. Cadillac is not dying. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

20 hours ago, ccap41 said:

omg... you're just so damn stubborn sometimes. I've said it like 3-4 times now but I'll make the font bold so maybe you actually read what I'm saying. 

I'm not saying they have a bad interior(current gen). I'm saying for the money when you are entering the 100k club, they aren't up to snuff but when you're talking 60-80k range they are still very good. It is all dependent on what the owner wants out of a car. All out performance? Obviously Vette/ZL1/Shelby but as those cars approach 100k their interiors look worse and worse next to their similarly priced competition. But they light up almost everything when talking performance metrics. That why I said it is all perspective and what the owner/buyer wants. 

I'm not just talking shet on GM. You mentioned my knocking on the ATS earlier and while I admit there are downfalls they aren't enough to stop me from wanting one.  "Oh nooooo, a Ferd guy wants a GM?!?!?" 

And my point was that at a certain point.. price what ever.. what can any maker do to truly make their interiors look the part that will please U? The materials in a $200K vehicle are not so much different than they are in a $80K car. Ever been in a new Maserati? Well.. Even tho my vehicle was over $100K.. the materials in the $80K version aren't much different. Versus my friend's GrandTurismo.. he paid $140K for.. U would swear mine was just expensive in the inside

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Also, people in this class ahve plenty of money and plenty of them are choosing Cadillac.  One of my friends who was very unhappy with her CTS traded it for a Jeep Grand Cherokee loaded up....decided not months but weeks later that she missed the Cadillac after all.  She and her husband went out and bought a top of the line Escalade.  They then decided they missed having a car even though they loved the Escalade and the Jeep.  So they went out and bought a brand new Z06 Corvette.

They paid cash for all three...

[Cmicasa the Great]

31 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Also, people in this class ahve plenty of money and plenty of them are choosing Cadillac.  One of my friends who was very unhappy with her CTS traded it for a Jeep Grand Cherokee loaded up....decided not months but weeks later that she missed the Cadillac after all.  She and her husband went out and bought a top of the line Escalade.  They then decided they missed having a car even though they loved the Escalade and the Jeep.  So they went out and bought a brand new Z06 Corvette.

They paid cash for all three...

Unless its a business expense it really is the way to go instead of leasing.