Mercedez Benz News Mercedes-Benz Finally Has An A-Class for the U.S.

[balthazar]

^ Having owned one of these generations ('60 Bonneville) I can attest that interior room is not as much as you'd expect... in the least. Caddy did have another 4" wheelbase tho.

[smk4565]

So what if the A-class is small?  There are lots of cars smaller than the A-class in the market and especially in Europe.  Mercedes is looking to take care of this segment just as they have taken care of small-medium-large sedans.

[ccap41]

On 12/24/2017 at 10:51 PM, dfelt said:

Where? As I just looked SMK and NOWHERE does it say it is a FWD car. You always say everything is RWD Superior till people point out A-Class.

 

On 12/24/2017 at 3:05 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Again, you're looking at it from the consumer's point of view.  Look at it from a manufacturer's point of view.  A 1.5T would cost the same to build as a 2.0T assuming technologies are the same. (DI, VVT, Turbo, etc). There is not going to be some huge amount of price difference for that.

Manufacturers (not just automobiles) often offer options that have a perceived value to a product while actually adding little or no cost to the underlying product. A good half of the consumer market is built that way. 

I understand what you mean but if it really cost them next to nothing then why aren't there performance variations of almost every single vehicle out there, if it costs them nothing and they will just profit more? How come Chevy hasn't made a damn Cruze SS yet? They even have an engine to plug and play with. 

There's more to a performance car than just an engine. An engine designed for more power will always have stronger internals which cost more to produce and engineer along with transmission and all of your half-shafts and everything to the wheels. 

[Drew Dowdell]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

I understand what you mean but if it really cost them next to nothing then why aren't there performance variations of almost every single vehicle out there, if it costs them nothing and they will just profit more? How come Chevy hasn't made a damn Cruze SS yet? They even have an engine to plug and play with. 

There's more to a performance car than just an engine. An engine designed for more power will always have stronger internals which cost more to produce and engineer along with transmission and all of your half-shafts and everything to the wheels. 

Because, as I said earlier, it depends on engine architecture. The 2.0t  is a variation on the 2.5 engine block. It is much larger than the engine architecture the 1.5t uses.  They ate two completely different engine families. This is a GM specific thing based on about a decade of corporate development. 

GM is not going to produce two different but similarly powered 2.0t engines. It's just not economically feasible. 

Could they build a 2.0T on the smaller engine family? Probably. Will they? Probably not. A performance 1.8t though...

As for a Cruze SS, the regular Cruze isn't selling very well, so why make an SS version?

Building cars is multi-dimensional there is never one sole reason for doing or not doing something. 

[David]

Thanks @ccap41 I missed that then I was looking for it and it is not on the front page, they bury it. Plus another negative against the CLA, Premium Fuel To get less MPG than the Cruze? Seems like poor German engineering to me as many an American auto company does this for less cost.

I really see no value in the CLA other than a badge that someone is wanting. Pathetic car.

[Robert Hall]

9 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Thanks @ccap41 I missed that then I was looking for it and it is not on the front page, they bury it. Plus another negative against the CLA, Premium Fuel To get less MPG than the Cruze? Seems like poor German engineering to me as many an American auto company does this for less cost.

 

Remember, the cost means nothing to US M-B buyers beyond the monthly lease rate... and in Europe,they are diesels, so premium vs regular means nothing in their core market.  

[ccap41]

34 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Because, as I said earlier, it depends on engine architecture. The 2.0t  is a variation on the 2.5 engine block. It is much larger than the engine architecture the 1.5t uses.  They ate two completely different engine families. This is a GM specific thing based on about a decade of corporate development. 

GM is not going to produce two different but similarly powered 2.0t engines. It's just not economically feasible. 

Could they build a 2.0T on the smaller engine family? Probably. Will they? Probably not. A performance 1.8t though...

As for a Cruze SS, the regular Cruze isn't selling very well, so why make an SS version?

Building cars is multi-dimensional there is never one sole reason for doing or not doing something. 

But if  there's easy cash sitting on the table why wouldn't they make it work for both OR make a new 2.0T that can be used for the next decade+ anyway? 

Why make an SS version? You already answered that. If it costs them next to nothing to make, as you said performance variants appear to cost more than they actually do, but they can profit a bunch off of the few sales. Sounds like a no-brainer for every company. Unless it costs them more than you're saying it does to do... 

[Robert Hall]

Sounds like poor engineering if they can't fit the 2.0/2.5 in the Cruze.  And why have two different engine families for 4cyls?   Again, poor choices.  Should have a single 4 cyl architecture in different displacements like other automakers do.  GM sometimes makes inexplicable decisions. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Robert Hall]

As far as a Cruze SS, the compact appliance sedan niche is declining, and the performance end of it down to just a couple Civic variations and the performance Focus and GTI.  GM would have to invest a lot to be competitive in a declining niche.   Maybe if they had come out with a Cruze SS a couple years ago, but it seems like it is too late now..

Edited December 26, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ccap41]

36 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Thanks @ccap41 I missed that then I was looking for it and it is not on the front page, they bury it. Plus another negative against the CLA, Premium Fuel To get less MPG than the Cruze? Seems like poor German engineering to me as many an American auto company does this for less cost.

I really see no value in the CLA other than a badge that someone is wanting. Pathetic car.

Yeah it's not the easiest to find but it would be the same place RWD would be found. They don't advertise that either. But they all sure as heck know how to advertise AWD, lol. 

Ehhh I see it's place. I wish it wouldn't have been a funky coupe-like vehicle but either a traditional sedan or a hatchback so it has actual interior space for its exterior dimensions. 

[Robert Hall]

Just now, ccap41 said:

Yeah it's not the easiest to find but it would be the same place RWD would be found. They don't advertise that either. But they all sure as heck know how to advertise AWD, lol. 

Ehhh I see it's place. I wish it wouldn't have been a funky coupe-like vehicle but either a traditional sedan or a hatchback so it has actual interior space for its exterior dimensions. 

i thought it was well known that the CLA and GLA were just a FWD A-class variations..been out for a few years now...

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

As far as a Cruze SS, the compact appliance sedan niche is declining, and the performance end of it down to just a couple Civic variations and the performance Focus and GTI.  GM would have to invest a lot to be competitive in a declining niche. 

They wouldn't have to invest a lot, according to Drew though. That's my point... 

Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

i thought it was well known that the CLA and GLA were just a FWD A-class variations..been out for a few years now...

I thought it was common knowledge among car-people as well. That's a big reason car people seem to knock it.  

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They wouldn't have to invest a lot, according to Drew though. That's my point... 

I thought it was common knowledge among car-people as well. That's a big reason car people seem to knock it.  

Yes, just a commodity appliance with premium aspirations...nothing of significance... 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[David]

3 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Sounds like poor engineering if they can't fit the 2.0/2.5 in the Cruze.  And why have two different engine families for 4cyls?   Again, poor choices.  Should have a single 4 cyl architecture in different displacements like other automakers do.  GM sometimes makes inexplicable decisions. 

This this is one of my own issues with GM and their separate groups building stuff even in the same family as they ignore how to build in lower cost. The 1.6T, 2.0, 2.5, etc. all should be based on the same engine family block design. Isolated groups makes for expensive and sometimes poor design choices.

2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

i thought it was well known that the CLA and GLA were just a FWD A-class variations..been out for a few years now...

 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I thought it was common knowledge among car-people as well. That's a big reason car people seem to knock it.  

See and yet, I know MB pushes AWD a ton and yet while I consider myself an Auto person, due to the coupe design and being a car which I am not a car person, I rely on others to share the wealth and as such, since the FWD/RWD is not front page, but having to go into lower levels, I missed this till this discussion came up.

MB could kill off the CLA/GLA and I doubt many will care or notice as they will move to other options in the badge family if they really want it.

[Robert Hall]

9 minutes ago, dfelt said:

This this is one of my own issues with GM and their separate groups building stuff even in the same family as they ignore how to build in lower cost. The 1.6T, 2.0, 2.5, etc. all should be based on the same engine family block design. Isolated groups makes for expensive and sometimes poor design choices.

I guess it's a legacy of the old GM structure...GMDAT was doing subcompacts and compacts in S. Korea, Opel was doing compact and midsize cars in Germany, lots of stuff going on in Detroit...  for commodity 4 cyl generics, they need a single engine family with a variety of displacements, not multiple unrelated families..one GM like Ford's 'one Ford' idea...'old' GM seemed to always have way too much redundancy, too many different 4s and V6 families..

Edited December 26, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ccap41]

46 minutes ago, dfelt said:

since the FWD/RWD is not front page, but having to go into lower levels,

Are there any manufacturers' pages that do advertise this on the front page of that vehicle's site?  

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

 

See and yet, I know MB pushes AWD a ton and yet while I consider myself an Auto person, due to the coupe design and being a car which I am not a car person, I rely on others to share the wealth and as such, since the FWD/RWD is not front page, but having to go into lower levels, I missed this till this discussion came up.

MB could kill off the CLA/GLA and I doubt many will care or notice as they will move to other options in the badge family if they really want it.

It's mentioned in my go-to reference  location--Wikipedia...I rarely look at the manufacturer's sites, that's just marketing fluff for consumers..   And car magazine reviews always mention whether something is FWD/RWD/AWD, so I remember detail from reading reviews in C&D, R&T and Automobile..after 40 years, I still enjoy reading the new car mags every month (digitally now) even though I'm not in the market.  

Edited December 26, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Yes, just a commodity appliance with premium aspirations...nothing of significance... 

I know the conversation of this has long since past...(we are now into where to find in sources if a vehicle is RWD or FWD or AWD and if that source is credible or not...)

But as with everything...marketing brainwashing bullshyte is what EVERYBODY relies on for information accuracy nowadays as it seems.

You will call it "commodity appliance with premium aspirations...nothing of significance..."

As will I.

But...marketing brainwashing bullshyters will call that "entry level luxury".

And the sheeple or fake Gucci crowd will buy into that phrase in more ways than one...

Most people dont care or dont even know FWD/RWD/AWD and the hole in their ass...

This turn of events happened, I would guess around the late 70s or mid 1980s when Detroit downsized even further and went full-on FWD...

There was a time when after the FWD/RWD debacle died down....the marketing brainwashing bullshyters went to displacement per horsepower and all the rage was exactly that...DOHC versus pushrods...

But now...even that does not seem to be of any knowledge of the sheeple...

Now...admittedly...the soupe du jour  is electric versus dinosaur juice for energy source and with that comes the debacle of autonomous pods versus well...the automobile we all love as we know it...

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by oldshurst442