More content for the price...

[Paolino]

One of my biggest gripes with Buick is it appears the competition (and often cheaper cars that don't compete) have a lot more content, and better packaging.

I have to jump up 3 trim levels or even go to the top trim to get certain features that are standard on a Corolla.  Sure, the LaCrosse is a much nicer, larger car, but I can't help but feel at this price and time, some things should just be standard like Blind-zone monitoring.

Then there's the gripe that in order to add one feature you often have to add several other expensive packages.

Anyone else get frustrated?  I know I have another year before I need to get my next car, but I want to start looking now so I'm ready to go right before my lease is up.

[balthazar]

Things I'd like to get in a car mostly aren't available, then other things I don't want, are standard. Nobody can ever be happy, it seems.

[oldshurst442]

1st world problems are nice to have.  

Buick does NOT offer you what you want in a car. Dont buy Buick. Buy something that offers you what you want at the price you want it for.  

Edited April 22, 2018 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

I certainly don't see or would classify what I said as "1st world problems".

I would greatly prefer unbundled options, and further; the choice of choosing (or, as in my case; not) some 'safety' features in the same manner.

Where can I buy that??

[oldshurst442]

Not necessarily focusing on you Balthy or on Paolino with my 1st world problem statement...

Just a general statement that 1st word people like to complain about...in general.  

 

But as you and Paolino have stated in these posts, and how you even said:

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Nobody can ever be happy, it seems.

Yes...1st world problems.

Manufactures in the USA have collected enough data over the last car buying century, have conducted many focus group meetings, that they have more or less stream lined the options available in their offerings...

Pay up and shut up it shall be.  And that means that the way these options are being offered is just to facilitate the money coming in for these companies...you know...profit. Profit is the driving force of a 1st world country. 

I understand what you want out of cars as I have a feeling we both want the same thing out of our cars regarding these safety features. I always buy the top of the line trim model, yet I hardly use the features that come with the car. 

I pay up and shut up...but that is how I want it anyway.

In Paolino's case, either he pays up and shuts up with a higher trimmed Buick that he doesnt want, but living in the 1st world, he has options to buy somewhere else other than Buick.

It is NOT frustrating because we, North Americans, are free and rich enough to buy almost whatever we want, whenever we want it. 

Look at his statement...

4 hours ago, Paolino said:

I know I have another year before I need to get my next car, but I want to start looking now so I'm ready to go right before my lease is up.

He has another year to go to get another car. He KNOWS he will get another car. He just does NOT know what he wants yet. 

He is frustrated with a false sense of not getting what he wants. Yet what he wants is available somewhere no doubt... 

He WILL find it. He WILL acquire it. There is no doubt that he will find it and acquire it. Next year. Its a guarantee.

In your case.

You want the option to de-option.  But  your fellow American citizens want their cars to do their laundry for them  if it was possible.  Your fellow Americans are now even tired to wait in a drive-thru window to get their coffee that they would want their car to place an order through their car's internet connection and their restaurant of choice and they want their coffee to be ready as soon as they arrive...

And these features are a must today... 

So...maybe not a 1st world complaint you have Balthy, but your complaint resides with the North American market DEMANDING these 1st world options to be available at ANY price point. So...you and I have no other choice but to pay up and shut up as WE are in the minority... 

So yeah...1st world problems where we have these options at our feet, we either complain because we dont want them, or we complain because we want them offered a certain way...

Yet in other parts of the world...

OK...less grim...

That would be asylum seekers in a country that is thought to be paradise...

Yes..that would be Greece...

And lets look at Greeks in Greece. Forget that...lets look at Detroit Michigan...

So yeah...1st world problems complaining about being frustrated at the lack of features on a Buick...

Like I said. Buick offers no features you like. Do not buy Buick. Buy something else.  In America, we still have plenty of choices to choose from.  

This aint an angry rant. Just a defensive post defending my 1st world statement. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

I assume automakers have changed focus from offering a long list of discrete options to packages to cut costs, simplify, and focus on grouping options that people actually want.    For instance, they aren't going to offer stripped down with AM radio, no A/C, manual windows, manual vinyl bench seat to satisfy an infinitesimally small market that would want a car equipped in such a way...

[balthazar]

^ Agreed. But along the same lines, they don't "have" to bundle a sunroof, heated steering wheel, power trunk & light up grille ornament together when they have nothing to do with each other.

[Robert Hall]

Maybe studies have shown that people tended to order a group of options like that--order A and B and C together 80% of the time, so it made sense to bundle them.   I have seen some odd stuff when going through the online configurators for various models, like certain interior colors requiring specific audio packages, etc..

It would be fun to configure and order a car sometime, I've only ever bought from dealer in-stock selection..usually they've had a big enough selection that I've found one equipped as I want pretty easily. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

Of course you know I tend to look at this from the vintage perspective. Walk up to a given car and there's zero bundling- no way to expect Option B because it has option A. Much more configurable / individually custom. That's 'luxury' right there.

Cadillac should move to ala cart options on upper tier models : CT6 / XT6 and above. Would blow the luxury consumer's mind.

[Paolino]

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

1st world problems are nice to have.  

Buick does NOT offer you what you want in a car. Dont buy Buick. Buy something that offers you what you want at the price you want it for.  

And if I love Buick and want them to do better and succeed?

I love the LaCrosse.  I just wish I could get a LaCrosse how I want it.

14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Not necessarily focusing on you Balthy or on Paolino with my 1st world problem statement...

Just a general statement that 1st word people like to complain about...in general.  

 

But as you and Paolino have stated in these posts, and how you even said:

Yes...1st world problems.

Manufactures in the USA have collected enough data over the last car buying century, have conducted many focus group meetings, that they have more or less stream lined the options available in their offerings...

Pay up and shut up it shall be.  And that means that the way these options are being offered is just to facilitate the money coming in for these companies...you know...profit. Profit is the driving force of a 1st world country. 

I understand what you want out of cars as I have a feeling we both want the same thing out of our cars regarding these safety features. I always buy the top of the line trim model, yet I hardly use the features that come with the car. 

I pay up and shut up...but that is how I want it anyway.

In Paolino's case, either he pays up and shuts up with a higher trimmed Buick that he doesnt want, but living in the 1st world, he has options to buy somewhere else other than Buick.

It is NOT frustrating because we, North Americans, are free and rich enough to buy almost whatever we want, whenever we want it. 

Look at his statement...

He has another year to go to get another car. He KNOWS he will get another car. He just does NOT know what he wants yet. 

He is frustrated with a false sense of not getting what he wants. Yet what he wants is available somewhere no doubt... 

He WILL find it. He WILL acquire it. There is no doubt that he will find it and acquire it. Next year. Its a guarantee.

In your case.

You want the option to de-option.  But  your fellow American citizens want their cars to do their laundry for them  if it was possible.  Your fellow Americans are now even tired to wait in a drive-thru window to get their coffee that they would want their car to place an order through their car's internet connection and their restaurant of choice and they want their coffee to be ready as soon as they arrive...

And these features are a must today... 

So...maybe not a 1st world complaint you have Balthy, but your complaint resides with the North American market DEMANDING these 1st world options to be available at ANY price point. So...you and I have no other choice but to pay up and shut up as WE are in the minority... 

So yeah...1st world problems where we have these options at our feet, we either complain because we dont want them, or we complain because we want them offered a certain way...

Yet in other parts of the world...

OK...less grim...

That would be asylum seekers in a country that is thought to be paradise...

Yes..that would be Greece...

And lets look at Greeks in Greece. Forget that...lets look at Detroit Michigan...

So yeah...1st world problems complaining about being frustrated at the lack of features on a Buick...

Like I said. Buick offers no features you like. Do not buy Buick. Buy something else.  In America, we still have plenty of choices to choose from.  

This aint an angry rant. Just a defensive post defending my 1st world statement. 

 

 

Well, it's kinda rude to be honest.  You have NO clue what my situation is or what I've been through.  I've been through a hell of a lot in my life, and as for "He has another year to go to get another car. He KNOWS he will get another car. He just does NOT know what he wants yet."

You couldn't be more wrong.  Having lost my job several times, still paying student loans, and dealing with a shitty past, I can safely say I do not know if I will get another car in a year.  I do not know if I'll be working in a year.  I've been through several transitions where I've had to borrow a car or get rides because as hard as I've worked, things haven't worked out.

And even with all that... and perhaps it's foolish on my part, I give SO much of my own money to those who are less fortunate... all the time.  Thousands each year.

[Robert Hall]

Weird turn this thread took...what do car options have to do with the state of the world?   Talk about non sequiturs.   As far as I'm concerned, I don't buy very often, but I do like well equipped.    I really don't care much about humanity, though I do donate to the arts and a few small terrier rescue groups. 

[Paolino]

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

If that does not say spoiled phoquing North American entitled asshat, I dont know what is...

So yeah! Even when I said 1st world problems in JEST...it looks like I was 100% right all along!!! 

If YOU are uncertain of YOUR future, one word of advice...STOP being a dreamer. 

Your lease is up?

Look to buy the car you are leasing up front, or look to a used car... there is NO need for you to be looking at brand new Buick Lacrosses and there is certainly no reason for you to be bitching about cars that you cannot actually afford in the first phoquing place! 

Yup...I still stand by my statement...and this time its NOT in jest.

1st world entitled problems we have!!!

Who ever said I was complaining I can't afford it?  I simply said I was looking for better packaging and equipment, and that I didn't want to spend that kind of money to get what others offer on cheaper cars.  You took it to another level.

Again, you're being inappropriate and rude.  Nothing in my original post said I couldn't afford it--it said I was displeased with the layout of the trim levels.  You're making a lot of assumptions, man.  And you're completely off-base with what you're saying.  What on earth could you possibly know about my life to make those assumptions from a simple post?  You're going out of your way to start an argument where none was necessary.

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick lately is being packaged uncompetitively. I get that they're trying to be a premium brand, but many of the combinations don't make sense in light of what the competition is offering. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Buick lately is being packaged uncompetitively. I get that they're trying to be a premium brand, but many of the combinations don't make sense in light of what the competition is offering. 

Here's an example:

Perhaps the most direct competitor to the Buick Lacrosse is either the Toyota Avalon or the Lexus ES.  The Avalon comes standard with active cruise, lane departure, automatic high beams. You can bet the new ES will come with all of that standard as well.

You can't get any of that until you option up to the very top non-Avenir package and then it is still an additional $1600 on top of that. To add insult to injury, the Corolla even comes standard with that tech now.

Then, as @Paolino has pointed out, rain sensing wipers aren't even an option on the Lacrosse but are available in my Encore.

I get that premium brands want to charge extra for things (Benz and BMW charge you extra for Apple Car Play when it is standard in just about every mainstream brand vehicle), but even just forcing people into top of the line trim before making a feature available isn't very good business.... especially safety features.

It's not just Buick either. I've seen other GM brands doing this with the newer models also.

[David]

Depending on the next 18-24 months, GM could push me into another brand depending on what they do with correcting the garbage group packages and how fast they get their butts moving to bring out variety of CUV/SUVs for certain brands with certain power trains.

I honestly do not know why in the last 12 -18 months we have seen such a reversal at GM. They were doing really well and surprised everyone with the BOLT and now they are just letting everyone pass them up again and offering / forcing packages on people that they do not want just to get certain other features.

I totally get what everyone is saying here and I think more rather than less people are wishing they could a la carte their auto's.

@balthazar Has the best Idea of growing Cadillac back into the luxury leader of the world, make the complete product line a la carte options with just a couple packages for those that want it all.

[ocnblu]

I've always been an advocate of a la carte option availability.  My current vehicle was ordered with two options:  power driver's seat and an alternative alloy wheel.

[Suaviloquent]

Well I would have said that maybe GM incentives might make up for it, but then I thought that @Paolino probably already has the current competitive offers for lease/finance at hand and still the Lacrosse is bundled too much relative to like competitors.

 

i think GM will adjust. I remember how Ford first did EcoBoost and then now everyone that has turbos is making the turbo engine if not standard, than very easily attainable, and not the $1000 standalone upcharge on Fusion SE and like Focus to go from the 2.0L to the atrociously underpowered 1.0.

 

American makes been kinda lacklustre on features and value for a while now on their passenger mainstream cars, and the only car that I really feel is a GEM is the Pacifica.

 

And the Envision is a turd, it’s just a crap vehicle, doesn’t even matter where it’s imported from. Okay I know that vehicle is not involved at all, but still. Buick.

[David]

9 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

And the Envision is a turd, it’s just a crap vehicle, doesn’t even matter where it’s imported from. Okay I know that vehicle is not involved at all, but still. Buick.

I think everyone is on the same page, but have to totally disagree with you on the Envision. It is anything but a turd / crap vehicle. My sisters that I helped her buy is rock solid and been far more reliable than the craptastic Mazda CX Turds that are terrible for interior space and underpowered which is from actual use of their auto's. From the 3 to the 9 unimpressed with the interiors compared to the Envision. Mazda is a sewing machine noisy box compared to the Buick. Front seats in the Mazda are terrible if your a big person and the back is no picnic either compared to the buick where you can have a 6'6" tall person in the front and still have another person that big in the back and not hit the seats back with your knees or the roof with your head. 

So please tell me why you think the Envision is a Turd?

[Drew Dowdell]

I haven't noticed any quality issues with Envision... it is just completely anonymous to me....even as a current Buick owner I can't get excited for it.  It's another one that is packaged weirdly compared to the competition.  The base 2.5 has to go...

GM did "ecoboost" before Ford did, that is turbo with direct injection, putting it attainable cars at the start. The 2008 Cobalt SS is arguably more attainable than a 2010 Taurus SHO.  The Regal Turbo (2009) and Verano Turbo (2013) were both out before and at the same time respectively as the Fusion Ecoboost (2013).

Your argument is correct however if you are saying that Ford was first to put Turbo+DI at the bottom end of the option packages. the Explorer was the first to get a Turbo+DI as a base engine.

 

[ccap41]

On 4/21/2018 at 3:58 PM, Paolino said:

Then there's the gripe that in order to add one feature you often have to add several other expensive packages.

They've tried this and it costs the manufacturer a lot more making so many more choices/options available a la cart. 

Look what Ford just did on the Fusion. They had literally thousands of different packaging options and on the 2019 Fusion they're trimming that down to 36, which is more like the Japanese brands. They have their trim levels and only a few choices within them. 

[ccap41]

41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They've tried this and it costs the manufacturer a lot more making so many more choices/options available a la cart. 

Look what Ford just did on the Fusion. They had literally thousands of different packaging options and on the 2019 Fusion they're trimming that down to 36, which is more like the Japanese brands. They have their trim levels and only a few choices within them. 

"When it hits showrooms in late summer, the 2019 Fusion will be offered in 36 available configurations. That's down from nearly 2,000 for the 2018 model year and a number that once reached an astonishing 35,000 possible configurations. Likewise, the EcoSport debuted for 2018 in the United States with 46 configuration options."

I have to believe this is to cut costs. They don't want to offer their customers less options but there's no choice when a vehicle that sells over 200,000 units a year is on the cutting block(and I believe it is because they aren't making enough or anything on it). 

[Drew Dowdell]

36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They've tried this and it costs the manufacturer a lot more making so many more choices/options available a la cart. 

Look what Ford just did on the Fusion. They had literally thousands of different packaging options and on the 2019 Fusion they're trimming that down to 36, which is more like the Japanese brands. They have their trim levels and only a few choices within them. 

Yeah, I don't think totally alacarte is the way to go either, but some things need to be decoupled from the high price option packages, especially if they are safety items like blind spot monitoring or automatic cruise control. 

Accord, Camry, Corolla, Avalon (most of the Toyota line really) are all coming with these things standard now, it's time for GM and Ford and others to step up.  The Mazda 6 comes with it standard on the Touring model and it's available for just $625 on the base model. That is a very fair way to do it. On the Regal it is still a $1600 option on the GS!  Automatic Cruise and automatic forward braking doesn't become an option until you're in the highest non-GS trim, and then it still costs $2500 in packages to get.  It is simply uncompetitive. 

[ccap41]

Automatic cruise control is not a safety feature... Not in my eyes it isn't. 

Blind spot is only a safety feature because vehicles are built with such terrible blind spots now that they need to give the drivers something. I turn my head every time I change lanes and it still isn't the easiest to actually look at the blind spot. 

Personally, blind spot monitoring isn't something I would ever pay for unless it was stuck in a package that I wanted other things. 

My little angled corner mirror within my side mirror is plenty good for me. 

[David]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Automatic cruise control is not a safety feature... Not in my eyes it isn't. 

Blind spot is only a safety feature because vehicles are built with such terrible blind spots now that they need to give the drivers something. I turn my head every time I change lanes and it still isn't the easiest to actually look at the blind spot. 

Personally, blind spot monitoring isn't something I would ever pay for unless it was stuck in a package that I wanted other things. 

My little angled corner mirror within my side mirror is plenty good for me. 

Totally agree with you that blind spot monitoring I can do without unless it is part of a package of other features I want also. Dual mirrors and shoulder checks more than cover the proper driving skill.

[Drew Dowdell]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Automatic cruise control is not a safety feature... Not in my eyes it isn't. 

Blind spot is only a safety feature because vehicles are built with such terrible blind spots now that they need to give the drivers something. I turn my head every time I change lanes and it still isn't the easiest to actually look at the blind spot. 

Personally, blind spot monitoring isn't something I would ever pay for unless it was stuck in a package that I wanted other things. 

My little angled corner mirror within my side mirror is plenty good for me. 

None of that is the point.  Toyota, Mazda, Accord are offering it standard or option on base models. Buick makes you pick the top of the line trim and then charges you a lot more on top of that.  I have the same opinion about Car Play being a $350 option on BMW and Benzes, sometimes requiring an infotainment system upgrade also, but standard on a Sonic. 

[ccap41]

So if i bought a Corolla for $18,600 it has auto cruise and blind spot monitoring? Impressive. 

Buying a Buick you're getting other things instead of those features for the money. You should be getting a quieter, smoother, leather seats, and more powerful engine'd vehicle. Personally, that sounds like a good deal. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So if i bought a Corolla for $18,600 it has auto cruise and blind spot monitoring? Impressive. 

Buying a Buick you're getting other things instead of those features for the money. You should be getting a quieter, smoother, leather seats, and more powerful engine'd vehicle. Personally, that sounds like a good deal. 

That's a valid point that gets invalidated by the Avalon and ES, and to a degree even the Mazda 6 now that it got a super nice new interior. Mazda is doing "Quiet Tuning" without calling it that.

 

[ccap41]

Sounds like somebody just shouldn't buy the Buick then..lol 

Also, the LaCross starts $10,000 less than the ES. 

It seems like the only one that truly out-options/classes it is the Avalon as it is near luxury like the Buick but also comes with more standard. At a $10,000 premium it is expected the ES will have more and the Buick does everything inside MUCH better than a Corolla with more power, leather, quietness, smoothness... I have to believe there are options that are standard on the LaX and not the Corolla. I just don't have the time to scan through both option sheets. 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't get sucked into the smk trap of comparing only on base price. Few of the base model Lacrosses are ever even built.

[Drew Dowdell]

Also "don't buy the Buick" is what Paul is lamenting about. He likes the Buick and has been a Buick driver most of his life, but the packages offered aren't competitive. Not being able to keep loyal buyers is a problem.

[ccap41]

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Don't get sucked into the smk trap of comparing only on base price. Few of the base model Lacrosses are ever even built.

And few of the base ES's are ever built so we can just assume both add a few options and are still roughly 10k apart. 

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Also "don't buy the Buick" is what Paul is lamenting about. He likes the Buick and has been a Buick driver most of his life, but the packages offered aren't competitive. Not being able to keep loyal buyers is a problem.

How much smaller is the Regal? It looks waaaay better as well. 

It sucks but that's how all companies are packaging things now. Especially considering the current LaX is probably their oldest vehicle and possibly on its way out.. that's just how it goes.. 

[ccap41]

Buick also doesn't offer any hybrids in 2018 so I'm not exactly sure what their end goal is. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The Lacrosse has an Eassist. I doubt Paul would want a Regal. He like posh old school luxury like I do.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Buick also doesn't offer any hybrids in 2018 so I'm not exactly sure what their end goal is. 

They don't sell.  They are trying to make money.

Just be careful what you wish for.  We recently fixed a 2018 Corolla, and the GRILLE EMBLEM costs over $400, and that does not include the spy unit behind it.  A lot of these cars are going to total out quicker than ever... maybe the carmakers like that idea...

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

They don't sell.  They are trying to make money.

Just be careful what you wish for.  We recently fixed a 2018 Corolla, and the GRILLE EMBLEM costs over $400, and that does not include the spy unit behind it.  A lot of these cars are going to total out quicker than ever... maybe the carmakers like that idea...

I think Toyota did it to counteract and leftover thoughts about their little sudden acceleration issue a few years ago. Sure most people have forgotten about it now, but these production plans would have been put in place that long ago.

[ocnblu]

Could be but OMG a $400+ emblem on an $18k car?

 

[Suaviloquent]

On 4/23/2018 at 8:57 AM, dfelt said:

I think everyone is on the same page, but have to totally disagree with you on the Envision. It is anything but a turd / crap vehicle. My sisters that I helped her buy is rock solid and been far more reliable than the craptastic Mazda CX Turds that are terrible for interior space and underpowered which is from actual use of their auto's. From the 3 to the 9 unimpressed with the interiors compared to the Envision. Mazda is a sewing machine noisy box compared to the Buick. Front seats in the Mazda are terrible if your a big person and the back is no picnic either compared to the buick where you can have a 6'6" tall person in the front and still have another person that big in the back and not hit the seats back with your knees or the roof with your head. 

So please tell me why you think the Envision is a Turd?

Because you can get a far better and much larger crossover such as a Mazda CX-9, loaded Kia Sorento, Explorer Platinum... for that kind of change, and I dunno how, I’ve been in all of those and that god awful plastic wood trim in the Envision is pure trash, and the Cadillac XT5 is not that far off the Envision loaded up.

 

On 4/23/2018 at 9:58 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

I haven't noticed any quality issues with Envision... it is just completely anonymous to me....even as a current Buick owner I can't get excited for it.  It's another one that is packaged weirdly compared to the competition.  The base 2.5 has to go...

GM did "ecoboost" before Ford did, that is turbo with direct injection, putting it attainable cars at the start. The 2008 Cobalt SS is arguably more attainable than a 2010 Taurus SHO.  The Regal Turbo (2009) and Verano Turbo (2013) were both out before and at the same time respectively as the Fusion Ecoboost (2013).

Your argument is correct however if you are saying that Ford was first to put Turbo+DI at the bottom end of the option packages. the Explorer was the first to get a Turbo+DI as a base engine.

 

What I meant was that Ford started to really PR spin the stupid EcoBoosts even though they were really just a replacement for the aging Duratecs, not a premium engine option.

 

I remember configuring a base SE with the 1.6L back then and like $25,000 for just that? It was ridiculous, and now the competition is offering more features, more value and better turbo or N/A engines and the Fusion overplayed it’s hand, Ford has to increase value and the buyers that did get a Fusion, might feel burned by Ford’s PR spinning of what was just the next family of engine lines, not an industry exclusive tech that they played EB as.

I would never pay more for the less powerful, less in real world efficient engine, and I laughed my ass off when they announced the Taurus and Explorer would get the 2.0L as an extra $1000 option. Who the hell actually bought into that, and I wonder how unimpressed or flat out rage they must have felt, eh?

[David]

2 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

Because you can get a far better and much larger crossover such as a Mazda CX-9, loaded Kia Sorento, Explorer Platinum... for that kind of change, and I dunno how, I’ve been in all of those and that god awful plastic wood trim in the Envision is pure trash, and the Cadillac XT5 is not that far off the Envision loaded up.

Totally disagree with you as the wood dash trim is lacquer coated and not plastic, but I can see how some would see it as plastic. 

CX-9, what a joke that is the biggest plastic crap CUV around and way over rated. Spent weeks in one of their new top end and wrote a review on it. Terrible power, gas guzzler, plastic crap everywhere, terrible seats, I would never recommend it to even an enemy.

You can get fully loaded Envisions for 40K, not the MSRP 54K. I posted about that too in regards to my sister and many people who have been in it love it especially her best friend who is a lexus lover and now looking to replace her lexus cuv with the Buick due to the far superior interior and room on top of how quiet it is.

Room in the Envision beats out the CX-9 both front and back seats even though it is a smaller CUV for 5.

Spent far to much time in all the auto's you mention and the only thing to step up from the Buick would be the Cadillac you mention.

[Suaviloquent]

At that price the Envision makes decent sense. But laquer coated lol, the only Buick’s that even get wood trim are Avenir models, everybody knows Buick’s don’t get real wood trim. Even the Lacrosse doesn’t get real wood.

 

 

And Mazda’s got great interiors dude, I just hate the white ivory leathers.

 

We can agree to disagree, but what I can say is that if the Buick has better interiors by your opinion than even the German makes in it’s competitive set and the Mazda has a worse interior yet it offers real premium materials and not plastic wood, then I suppose Mazda is on par with Audi, Lexus, Acura and Lincoln in terms of interiors in top end models 😁

Edited April 25, 2018 by Suaviloquent

[balthazar]

Current LaCrosse has had available wood since 2014. "Everybody" knows that. And:
 

[Suaviloquent]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Current LaCrosse has had available wood since 2014. "Everybody" knows that. And:
 

The picture I posted is of CX-9.

 

never mentioned CX-5 in this thread. And still the Cx-5 for the price is better looking at least than the Envision.

 

and of course the Avenir Lacrosse gets wood trim. I mentioned that already. Avenir models get real permium stuff that can be had in plebes like Avalon and Grand Touring Mazda’s for cheaper.

[Suaviloquent]

Let’s remind the premise of this thread. OP has valid concern over his loyalty to a brand that is not being catered to through said brands bundling of option packages on a sedan model. Relates to lack of competitive pricing of models, trims or packages. Of course other GM loyalists can say ‘hell yes I got X amount off and a wicked deal’.

 

All I’m claiming is that other brands are more than competitive, and yes a Mazda generally has a flinty ride or noisier cabin but it’s actually fun to drive, has real steering feel, try to get that in most Buick’s that aren’t sedans. 

And now said competitors undercut the the Buick value proposition by offering other features standard or on their top-line trims for mainstream’s get the same features that’d be expected on a premium marque. And who said those said competitions don’t have good offers? You can also say people get X amount off their competitor brand to Buick. That happens too.

Especially when said OP is considering rivals to desired class/segment of sedan the OP likes.