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William Maley

Lexus News: The Uncertain Future of the Lexus GS and IS

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Weird that you had to order a 2.0T CT6. There actually happened to be one in the parking garage at work one day, it had the 2.0T badge on it. 

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3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Er... no.  Most CT6s are sold at least mid-level.  Dealers don't even stock the base 2.0T, it is by order only. 

The E-Class has more status here because it was never used as a taxi.  It has no particular status in the EU.  Europeans understand it can be optioned up nicely, but they are just as likely to get into an orange/beige one and driven to the airport.  The vast majority of E-Classes in Europe are not privately owned... just like the Crown Vic here.  Germans buy german vehicles.  This isn't rocket science.

Well I did say base V6.

Brits, French, Austrian, Swiss, and Scandinavians seem to buy German cars too.  Cadillac and Lexus never could crack the code to beat the E-class in Europe, and with the heavy taxi use it should be easy to have more status and image.  But the truth is the E-class is a much better car than the Lexus GS ever was, or the CTS/STS ever were, likewise for the Infiniti M35/Q70, and that is why the E-class is still the #1 selling mid-size luxury car and those other cars are dead or about to be cancelled.

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2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes, the 2.0 is gone, but that won't effect sales since no one was buying it or even stocking it. Don't expect a price drop for the 3.6  except that there will be a RWD 3.6 available, so an option delete credit there. I'm wondering if the 2.0t will continue in China though.

I think it will continue in China because of the Displacement Tax.   I imagine one day they will just jack up the displacement taxes sky high combined with their EV mandate to rid the country of ICE cars.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Considering the stupid displacement tax they have, I would totally think they would keep the 2.0T 4 banger going for China.

Agreed.  Get ready to laugh but they should probably put the 2.0T in the Escalade and sell it there.  Preferably with some electric boost.

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6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They have the new 2.7T

Displacement tax still hits that,  7.5% tax on 1.6 to 2.0 liter engines, as high as 20% on 4 liter engines.   The 2.7T would get hit with the same tax as the Cadillac 3 liter TT V6, might as well use that then. 

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

So you want a car that is 10 inches longer than a CT6 at like $75k?

I want a Cadillac about 10 inches longer and 3 inches wider than the Ct6. Whether the next gen CT6 grows in size, or a 'CT8' appears, I'd like to see a range topper noticeably larger.

As for pricing, overlap already occurs everywhere. Doesn't the E63 overlap the S550 by 10 or 15 grand?

Edited by balthazar
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I like the E-Class, but the CT6 is way more handsome of a vehicle.  When you see those lightsaber fangs coming at you, it really grabs your attention.

 

 

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Displacement tax still hits that,  7.5% tax on 1.6 to 2.0 liter engines, as high as 20% on 4 liter engines.   The 2.7T would get hit with the same tax as the Cadillac 3 liter TT V6, might as well use that then. 

It's an Escalade. Luxury comes at a price. 

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Luxury comes at a price but the GLS has a 2.998 liter engine or whatever it is to keep the displacement tax under the 3 liter level, which I think is 9% vs 20% tax on the Escalade.  And Cadillac isn’t really in a position to sell at a price premium over a Mercedes or Audi which the Chinese love.

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12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Luxury comes at a price but the GLS has a 2.998 liter engine or whatever it is to keep the displacement tax under the 3 liter level, which I think is 9% vs 20% tax on the Escalade.  And Cadillac isn’t really in a position to sell at a price premium over a Mercedes or Audi which the Chinese love.

I would not bet on that. Cadillac is picking up steam and doing better than many would think in China. Latest info on Cadillac in China:

image.png

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26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Luxury comes at a price but the GLS has a 2.998 liter engine or whatever it is to keep the displacement tax under the 3 liter level, which I think is 9% vs 20% tax on the Escalade.  And Cadillac isn’t really in a position to sell at a price premium over a Mercedes or Audi which the Chinese love.

It's a much larger vehicle so it has a chance to sell at a premium over a GLS. 

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Luxury comes at a price but the GLS has a 2.998 liter engine or whatever it is to keep the displacement tax under the 3 liter level, which I think is 9% vs 20% tax on the Escalade.  And Cadillac isn’t really in a position to sell at a price premium over a Mercedes or Audi which the Chinese love.

You keep moving those goalposts, that's what you're good at.

Two posts ago I suggested they use the new 2.7 liter, so it would be below the 3.0 gas tax level.  Your suggestion was that they use the 2.0T.  I'm sure your very next complaint was that a Chinese Escalade only had a 2.0T while the GLS has a 2.998 liter.

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3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You keep moving those goalposts, that's what you're good at.

Two posts ago I suggested they use the new 2.7 liter, so it would be below the 3.0 gas tax level.  Your suggestion was that they use the 2.0T.  I'm sure your very next complaint was that a Chinese Escalade only had a 2.0T while the GLS has a 2.998 liter.

I first said they should use the 2.0T with electrification to get under the 2 liter gas tax level.  

You said they should use the 2.7 liter, to which I said is pointless because you can use the 3.0TT which is taxed the same as a 2.7.  

With the new GLS I wouldn’t be surprised to see the newly updated turbo 4 gonin there for China, but they might not care if the 3 liter sells well.

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They could get the power numbers they need with the 2.0 but it would be a dog on fuel to the point it isn't even worth it. 

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32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I first said they should use the 2.0T with electrification to get under the 2 liter gas tax level.  

You said they should use the 2.7 liter, to which I said is pointless because you can use the 3.0TT which is taxed the same as a 2.7.  

With the new GLS I wouldn’t be surprised to see the newly updated turbo 4 gonin there for China, but they might not care if the 3 liter sells well.

The 2.7T with electrification would be more than enough to move an Escalade around. A 3.0TT in an escalade would be too much in a country where gas is already over $4 a gallon. I got 27mpg out of it in a CT6, but an Escalade couldn't count on that. 

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