Jump to content
William Maley

Toyota News: Toyota Double Downs Investment On Hydrogen

Recommended Posts

Toyota is planning a big push with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. According to Reuters, the Japanese automaker is doubling-down on investments for fuel cell vehicles by making improvements to reduce costs and building different models including commercial trucks.

“We’re going to shift from limited production to mass production, reduce the amount of expensive materials like platinum used in FCV components, and make the system more compact and powerful,” said Yoshikazu Tanaka, chief engineer of the Mirai.

Currently, Toyota hand builds the Mirai at a plant in Toyota City. Everyday, about 6.5 cars roll out of the plant. This is due to the detailed inspections that partially assembled models go through. The parts comprising the Mirai are quite expensive as well. According to analysis done by Strategic Analysis Inc., it costs Toyota about $11,000 to produce each of the fuel cell stacks. Blame the use of the platinum, titanium, and carbon fiber for the stacks.

Toyota has been building up production capacity as it expects sales of FCVs to increase from about 3,000 to over 20,000 after 2020. This will help reduce the cost of each fuel cell stack to $8,000.

“It will be difficult for Toyota to lower FCV production costs if it only produces the Mirai,” said a source,

That's where an expansion of FCVs come in. Toyota is planning a "phased introduction' of other FCVs, including SUVs and commercial trucks starting around 2025. Toyota declined to talk about future products, but did reveal that it has built prototypes of small delivery vehicles and transport trucks with fuel cell powertrains.

“We’re going to use as many parts from existing passenger cars and other models as possible in fuel cell trucks. Otherwise, we won’t see the benefits of mass production,” said Ikuo Ota, manager of new business planning for fuel cell projects at Toyota.

Why is Toyota doubling down on fuel cells? Sources say that Toyota believes demand will increase as more countries, including China "warm to fuel cell technology". The company also sees FCVs as a hedge against battery materials such as cobalt becoming scarce.

But there is still one issue that Toyota, and other automakers build FCVs still need to solve; infrastructure. There aren't many hydrogen refueling stations around. For example, the majority of hydrogen stations in the U.S. are in California. Not helping is a current shortage of hydrogen at refueling stations in California. Green Car Reports says this issue is due to various problems with supplier Air Products. The company said that it hopes to restore hydrogen supplies sometime in early August.

Source: Reuters, Green Car Reports


View full article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally get the green side of emission on a Hydrogen auto. Yet I still see this as a big negative also since it takes way more energy to produce the Hydrogen fuel. So one must question the long term nature of Hydrogen auto's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuel cells make great sense for city dwellers, small delivery vehicles, taxis, and other livery.   You can have a hydrogen generator in your garage and hydrogen can be generated from renewable sources, so its efficiency is less of a concern. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Fuel cells make great sense for city dwellers, small delivery vehicles, taxis, and other livery.   You can have a hydrogen generator in your garage and hydrogen can be generated from renewable sources, so its efficiency is less of a concern. 

I get the renewable source for energy, having a small hydrogen generator in the garage is a challenge coming from a person who sold home CNG fueling equipment. RIght now your looking at an overnight fueling refill of a compressed hydrogen tank with high cost for the equipment up front. I am skeptical of a person wanting to pay 6 to 10K for a home fueling system without big rebates from the gov.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I get the renewable source for energy, having a small hydrogen generator in the garage is a challenge coming from a person who sold home CNG fueling equipment. RIght now your looking at an overnight fueling refill of a compressed hydrogen tank with high cost for the equipment up front. I am skeptical of a person wanting to pay 6 to 10K for a home fueling system without big rebates from the gov.

You took garage the wrong way.  I'm thinking more like a taxi garage or a mid-size plumbing firm that maybe has 5 or 6 Sienna Commercial Vans.

If you told the business owner that he/she could erase their fuel costs for the next 10 - 15 years with an upfront check of $10k (assuming the vehicle purchases would be a wash) that should be a fairly easy check to write.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is such a thing as a 'Sienna Commercial van'? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's way out there but I think hydrogen is the way of the future... They're way behind on current technology but it'll come along one day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You took garage the wrong way.  I'm thinking more like a taxi garage or a mid-size plumbing firm that maybe has 5 or 6 Sienna Commercial Vans.

If you told the business owner that he/she could erase their fuel costs for the next 10 - 15 years with an upfront check of $10k (assuming the vehicle purchases would be a wash) that should be a fairly easy check to write.

Got it, totally zoned on the business garage and that makes even more sense.

I wonder what ever happened to Honda and their Home Garage fueling station that was all the rage in 2007.

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/home-hydrogen-fueling-stations/

honda-home-h2-filling-station.jpg

Now I will say I like this company's products:

http://www.hydrogenhouseproject.org/index.html

They have a Solar Hydrogen Fuel Cell electric lawn mower, Solar Hydrogen Fuel Cell Off-road EV, the cool part is the portable Joule box that can be used to keep your house fully in the power. Check it out.

Sadly, while there was allot of concepts for home Hydrogen fueling, it has all died out due to EVs. I could only find the company above that seems to be building a unit that could be used for home fueling.

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's way out there but I think hydrogen is the way of the future... They're way behind on current technology but it'll come along one day. 

Questionable if in my lifetime. :P All the rage in 2007 to 2012 and now dead compared to EV. So it will be interesting to see how Toyota gets this jump started as it is going to cost companies that go this route some big dollars to have hydrogen fueling equipment in places that their fleet can access and use it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

There is such a thing as a 'Sienna Commercial van'? 

I made it up. But you got the idea of what I am trying to say while keeping it Toyota. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I made it up. But you got the idea of what I am trying to say while keeping it Toyota. 

Yes...given how huge Toyota is, I'm surprised they haven't gotten into the commercial van space in the US like Nissan has done w/ the NVs...

A US market version of the Hiace would be cool.  And imagine how badazz one of these would look w/ the Lexus predator grille, sharp angles, squinty lights, and 22 inch wheels..(though the JDM Alphard van looks pretty Lexus-ish these days..)

hiace-front-view.png

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

There is such a thing as a 'Sienna Commercial van'? 

Makes total sense with Toyota expanding their Hydrogen options that they would have a commercial van running on hydrogen even though it is a floating idea that Drew through out there.

Toyota should pay Drew for the idea of a hydrogen commercial van. :P 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Social Stream

  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      The Toyota Yaris and Yaris Hatchback will be no more in the U.S. come the end of June. That's according to a leaked memo posted to Reddit and found by CarBuzz. Sent to "All Southeast Toyota Dealers and General Managers" by Toyota, the memo says the Yaris will "cease production" at the end of June.
      "The Yaris sedan and Yaris Hatchback will not be available for model year 2021. Model year 2020 will be the last year for Yaris. June 2020 will be the last month of production for the Yaris sedan and Yaris Hatchback for the US," wrote Christine N. Henley, Toyota North America's Western Communications Manager in the memo.
      Toyota confirmed the memo, and gave Car and Driver this statement;
      "The entry-subcompact segment has new regulations that require additional homologation. Those regulations, coupled with declining sales in the segment, are some of the reasons behind the decision."
      (Author's Note: We're wondering what Toyota means by the statement we bolded here, and we'll update if we get some sort of clarification. -WM).
      The declining sales makes sense as Toyota only moved 21,917 Yaris models in 2019, down 5,293 units when compared to 2018. To give more perspective, the Corolla moved 304,850 units last year.
      So if you're interested an affordable Toyota, we would hurry down to your nearest dealer ASAP.
      Source: CarBuzz, Car and Driver

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The Toyota Yaris and Yaris Hatchback will be no more in the U.S. come the end of June. That's according to a leaked memo posted to Reddit and found by CarBuzz. Sent to "All Southeast Toyota Dealers and General Managers" by Toyota, the memo says the Yaris will "cease production" at the end of June.
      "The Yaris sedan and Yaris Hatchback will not be available for model year 2021. Model year 2020 will be the last year for Yaris. June 2020 will be the last month of production for the Yaris sedan and Yaris Hatchback for the US," wrote Christine N. Henley, Toyota North America's Western Communications Manager in the memo.
      Toyota confirmed the memo, and gave Car and Driver this statement;
      "The entry-subcompact segment has new regulations that require additional homologation. Those regulations, coupled with declining sales in the segment, are some of the reasons behind the decision."
      (Author's Note: We're wondering what Toyota means by the statement we bolded here, and we'll update if we get some sort of clarification. -WM).
      The declining sales makes sense as Toyota only moved 21,917 Yaris models in 2019, down 5,293 units when compared to 2018. To give more perspective, the Corolla moved 304,850 units last year.
      So if you're interested an affordable Toyota, we would hurry down to your nearest dealer ASAP.
      Source: CarBuzz, Car and Driver
    • By William Maley
      The landscape of midsize sedans was much different ten to fifteen years ago. All of them offered the choice of a four-cylinder and V6 engine. Today, it is a completely different story as most automakers that still offer a midsize sedan have dropped their V6 engines in favor of turbo-fours. But Toyota is bucking the trend by sticking with the V6 in the Camry. It seemed like a good time to ask whether or not there is a place for a V6 in the midsize class.
      The V6 in question is a 3.5L used in many Toyota and Lexus vehicles. In the Camry, output is rated at 301 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque. An eight-speed automatic routes power to the front wheels. This V6 is one of my favorites due to its combination of excellent acceleration off the line and smoothness that turbo-fours can only dream of. One gotcha you need to keep in mind that torque steer will pop up if you decide to mash on the accelerator. The eight-speed automatic is very smooth and quick to upshift but hesitates to downshift when you need more speed. This is likely due to programming in the transmission to improve fuel economy. EPA fuel economy figures for the Camry XLE V6 are 22 City/33 Highway/26 Combined. My average for the week landed around 24 on a 60/40 mix of highway and city driving. The XSE and TRD V6s see a slight dip in fuel economy due to their performance ambitions. While the XLE can’t fully match the athleticism of the XSE I drove last year, it still can hold its own in the bends. The XLE has the added benefit of providing a smoother ride, as most bumps and road imperfections become mere ripples. Disappointingly, there is a fair amount of road and wind noise comes inside when driving on the freeway. A key difference between the XLE and the XSE I drove last year is the front end treatment. There is a larger lower grille and a different top grille design. I find this design to be a bit much and may scare a lot of people away. On the other hand, the new front does give Camry some needed presence on the road - something that couldn’t be said for previous-generation models. The XLE is surprisingly luxurious with quilted luxury upholstery for the seats and stitching on the dash. Although, a Mazda6 Signature is slightly more premium in terms of offering more luxurious trim pieces, whereas the Camry XLE uses a lot of piano black trim.  Comfort is one area that the Camry XLE excels in. The seats are quite cushy and offer plenty of support, no matter the distance of any trip. The back seat offers plenty of head and legroom. The Entune system may not have the sharp and modern graphics as some competitors, but it does have a simple interface and the ability to use either Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. The XLE starts at $29,455 for the base four-cylinder, while the V6 will set you back $34,580. With a few options, my test XLE V6 carried an as-tested price of $37,824. That’s slightly more expensive than a Mazda6 Signature which offers a slightly more premium interior and better driving dynamics. But the Camry can counter with the smooth performance of the V6, comfortable ride, and its long-standing reputation for reliability. I came away really impressed with the Camry XLE, but also wondering how much longer Toyota will hold out. Despite all of the positives, the V6 is a very expensive proposition and most buyers will likely be happy with the four-cylinder. If I was to buy one, I would likely go for an XLE minus the options. Disclaimer: Toyota provided the Camry, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Camry
      Trim: XLE V6
      Engine: 3.5L DOHC D-4S Dual-Injection w/Dual VVT-i V6
      Driveline: Front-Wheel Drive, Eight-Speed Automatic
      Horsepower @ RPM: 301 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 267 @ 4,700
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/33/26
      Curb Weight: 3,549 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $34,050
      As Tested Price: $37,824 (Includes $920.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Driver Assist Package - $1,550.00
      Navigation Package - $1,040.00
      Carpet/Trunk Mat Set - $264.00

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The landscape of midsize sedans was much different ten to fifteen years ago. All of them offered the choice of a four-cylinder and V6 engine. Today, it is a completely different story as most automakers that still offer a midsize sedan have dropped their V6 engines in favor of turbo-fours. But Toyota is bucking the trend by sticking with the V6 in the Camry. It seemed like a good time to ask whether or not there is a place for a V6 in the midsize class.
      The V6 in question is a 3.5L used in many Toyota and Lexus vehicles. In the Camry, output is rated at 301 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque. An eight-speed automatic routes power to the front wheels. This V6 is one of my favorites due to its combination of excellent acceleration off the line and smoothness that turbo-fours can only dream of. One gotcha you need to keep in mind that torque steer will pop up if you decide to mash on the accelerator. The eight-speed automatic is very smooth and quick to upshift but hesitates to downshift when you need more speed. This is likely due to programming in the transmission to improve fuel economy. EPA fuel economy figures for the Camry XLE V6 are 22 City/33 Highway/26 Combined. My average for the week landed around 24 on a 60/40 mix of highway and city driving. The XSE and TRD V6s see a slight dip in fuel economy due to their performance ambitions. While the XLE can’t fully match the athleticism of the XSE I drove last year, it still can hold its own in the bends. The XLE has the added benefit of providing a smoother ride, as most bumps and road imperfections become mere ripples. Disappointingly, there is a fair amount of road and wind noise comes inside when driving on the freeway. A key difference between the XLE and the XSE I drove last year is the front end treatment. There is a larger lower grille and a different top grille design. I find this design to be a bit much and may scare a lot of people away. On the other hand, the new front does give Camry some needed presence on the road - something that couldn’t be said for previous-generation models. The XLE is surprisingly luxurious with quilted luxury upholstery for the seats and stitching on the dash. Although, a Mazda6 Signature is slightly more premium in terms of offering more luxurious trim pieces, whereas the Camry XLE uses a lot of piano black trim.  Comfort is one area that the Camry XLE excels in. The seats are quite cushy and offer plenty of support, no matter the distance of any trip. The back seat offers plenty of head and legroom. The Entune system may not have the sharp and modern graphics as some competitors, but it does have a simple interface and the ability to use either Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. The XLE starts at $29,455 for the base four-cylinder, while the V6 will set you back $34,580. With a few options, my test XLE V6 carried an as-tested price of $37,824. That’s slightly more expensive than a Mazda6 Signature which offers a slightly more premium interior and better driving dynamics. But the Camry can counter with the smooth performance of the V6, comfortable ride, and its long-standing reputation for reliability. I came away really impressed with the Camry XLE, but also wondering how much longer Toyota will hold out. Despite all of the positives, the V6 is a very expensive proposition and most buyers will likely be happy with the four-cylinder. If I was to buy one, I would likely go for an XLE minus the options. Disclaimer: Toyota provided the Camry, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Camry
      Trim: XLE V6
      Engine: 3.5L DOHC D-4S Dual-Injection w/Dual VVT-i V6
      Driveline: Front-Wheel Drive, Eight-Speed Automatic
      Horsepower @ RPM: 301 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 267 @ 4,700
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/33/26
      Curb Weight: 3,549 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $34,050
      As Tested Price: $37,824 (Includes $920.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Driver Assist Package - $1,550.00
      Navigation Package - $1,040.00
      Carpet/Trunk Mat Set - $264.00
    • By William Maley
      The COVID-19 pandemic has basically brought most of the world to halt. Orders to stay at home, businesses either having workers to their work from home or closing down, and unemployment skyrocketing is causing the economy to crater. There are efforts to try and jump-start the economy such as $1,200 stimulus checks. But an executive at Ford wants to see a return of a "cash for clunkers" like program.
      “We think some level of stimulus somewhere on the other side of this would help not only the auto industry and our dealers, which are a huge part of our overall economy, but will help the customers as well,” said Mark LaNeve, Ford’s vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service to Bloomberg.
      “Cash for clunkers was very effective at that time. It would be nice to think we could have something equally as effective for 2020 when we get out of this because it was a great program.”
      According to LaNeve, internal discussions are taking place at Ford about doing a similar program and there are plans to bring the Government in to these talks.
      When asked by Automotive News about this, Ford spokeswoman Rachel McCleery said, "The auto industry is America’s economic engine.We are encouraging Congress to look at a variety of ways to drive job creation, increase demand, support customers and provide long-term stability for the entire auto ecosystem."
      A brief refresher on the Cash for Clunkers program. In 2009, the U.S. Government introduced a billion initiative called the Car Allowance Rebate System, which gave a voucher worth between $2,900 and $4,500 to anyone replacing a vehicle newer than 1984. Their old vehicle would be taken away and disposed of. The program was nicknamed Cash for Clunkers.
      On the surface, the program was a success. Within first month, all of the funds were exhausted. This prompted the U.S. congress infuse an addition two billion into the program, which would be all gone within 17 days. But begin to look deeper and the results are mixed. In 2012, a study published in the Quarterly Journal of Economics described the program as being a bit of a wash,
      "...the effect of the program on auto purchases is almost completely reversed by as early as March 2010 — only seven months after the program ended.”
      Other studies have come to the same conclusion.
      There's also the question of how many perfectly good used cars were taken off the road due to the program.
      Source: Bloomberg via Automotive News (Subscription Required), The Drive, The Truth About Cars

      View full article
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×
×
  • Create New...