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William Maley

Fiat News: Rumorpile: More Details On FCA's Inline-Six

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Back in October, the rumorpile brought to light plans at Fiat Chrysler Automobiles for a new straight-six engine to replace the Pentastar V6. This engine would be based on the new four-cylinder Global Medium Engine (GME) currently used in the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Jeep Wrangler. Max displacement is expected to be around 2.9L due to European taxes. We have some new details on this engine.

Allpar is reporting this engine is likely not going to be based on GME due to size concerns. Instead, it will be a new design that will be featuring small bores that are closely spaced, and aluminum hardening instead of steel cylinder linings. The goal is to have the engine be three-inches longer than the 2.4L four-cylinder at most. 

The engine is also being designed with turbocharging, with plans to have it either match or exceed the output of the 5.7L HEMI V8. Its speculated that Jeep and Ram models would use a twin-scroll setup, while Alfa Romeo and Maserati models will use a twin-turbo setup. A set of Ferrari-designed heads are expected to appear on Alfa Romeo and Maserati models.

Allpar speculates this engine could appear in the upcoming Wagoneer or the next-generation Grand Cherokee, putting a possible timeframe of 2020 or 2021.

Source: Allpar


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Guest thatjerryguy

Is FCA working on actual vehicles to put it in?

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Sounds like an excellent idea, they can replace the Pentastar and Hemi with this new engine in any of their rear drive vehicles.  I imagine they will use the e-torque system from the Ram with this.

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Sounds like an excellent idea, they can replace the Pentastar and Hemi with this new engine in any of their rear drive vehicles.  I imagine they will use the e-torque system from the Ram with this.

Doesn't have the same ring as hemi  though.

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Love the idear of an inline six, and I would drive one if it becomes available unfettered with e-torque... but it will never take the place of the Hemi in America.

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Sounds like an excellent idea, they can replace the Pentastar and Hemi with this new engine in any of their rear drive vehicles.  I imagine they will use the e-torque system from the Ram with this.

You could really never replace the Hemi.

I aint talking about the numbers aspect.

I am talking about the marketing aspect of the Hemi.

One reason why this modern 20 year old platformed Challenger is selling is because of the Hemi moniker attached to it. 

Listen to the whole commercial...and observe all that is in it...all MOPARS possibly powered by a HEMI.  These commercials did a lot for the MOPAR V8...

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Love the idear of an inline six, and I would drive one if it becomes available unfettered with e-torque... but it will never take the place of the Hemi in America.

You beat me to that idea by milliseconds!!!

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2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Indeed...I like the idea of a GC with a straight 6.

Imma liking the idea of an Alfa Romeo Guilia with an inline 6. As much as their current 2.9 liter sounds fantastic, I could get down with an inline Ferrari version 6 very easily...

I just hope some sort of Hellcat/Demon/Red Eye version HEMI survives and is offered in a vehicle over at FCA somewhere. As nice of an idea having an inline 6 in a Jeep GC may be, I do prefer the idea of a Hellcat GC a tad better.  Especially when Im thinking that neither Dodge or Chrysler looks like they will be surviving this new FCA direction.  I honestly do not think there will be another Charger or Challenger or 300 when these platforms finally get retired. 

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I would imagine a V8 remains in FCA, but who knows.  They can get 400 to 500 hp out of a six cylinder, and with CAFE, displacement taxes, emissions, etc, that may just kill the V8 because how many cars over 500 hp is FCA really going to sell, and will that justify the development cost of a V8 engine line.  If you had a pair of electric motors to a six cylinder then you have a 600+ hp engine with off the line torque, then you don't need a V8.  Or you go with pure EV's that can make whatever power you want.  Pinanfirina has an electric sports car coming with 1,700 hp and 1,900 lb-ft of torque or something crazy like that.  You can never do that with a gas engine.

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Wonder if they’ll use Hemi combustion chamber design for the inline six. Then it’s a HEMI. 

 

But HEMI designs were phased out everywhere...pipe dream to make a Hemi out of a non-hemi.

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2 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

Wonder if they’ll use Hemi combustion chamber design for the inline six. Then it’s a HEMI. 

 

But HEMI designs were phased out everywhere...pipe dream to make a Hemi out of a non-hemi.

Exactly...This new Hemi aint a pure Hemi.

And, the article does say that this inline 6 will have Ferrari designed heads.  That there is the new marketing tag. Inline 6 by Ferrari.  

Or Ferrari derived inline 6.  Like how Car and Driver sums up the Guilia V6.

Quote

Seductive looks, a snarling exhaust note, and sharp handling are essential to any Italian sports car, and the racy Giulia Quadrifoglio has all three in spades. A Ferrari-derived 505-hp 2.9-liter twin-turbo V-6 drives the rear wheels through an eight-speed automatic


So...no HEMI...

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I think RAM and Jeep faithful will gobble up a new inline six, they could get away with calling it a HEMI as long as they get the power and the smoothness. RAM HDs have a history of using inline six, so RAM light duty already makes sense, and Jeep - everywhere really. Inline six can scale and having just bolt ons like replacing the head while having a common block is amazing, they don’t have to cost cut too much to meet the price point of a Jeep with V6 or Pacifica. This can be a very good engine. Especially if the Hellcat people, Alfa people, Maserati and Ferrari people are involved in making the block very stout as a starting point.

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2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Good for FCA.  Now if only GM would build their own inline 6. . . . .

What would GM do with an inline 6?

Im assuming an inline 6 would be for a RWD vehicle for obvious length issues that a  modern FWD car that GM currently produces would not fit.

The offerings are slim at GM for RWD going forward. I sympathize with your opinion here as I share your sentiment.  However, I do not see where GM would be able to use it properly. GM did produce one a decade ago in their GMT360 mid-sized SUVs and back then I thought they would use that Atlas engine in more models. But they did not. And back then, they had more RWD offerings.  

The ATS and CTS will merge to become the CT5.  GM has got the corporate 3.6 liter for RWD purposes. Cadillac uses this along with their superb 3.0 liter V6.  Probably the CT5 will use the 3.0liter V6.   The CT6 is going away.  Both could have benefitted from an I6 but the 3.0 liter V6 is such a good engine. Its a new engine but the CT6 is going away ...so...

Then we got the Camaro and Corvette.  The Camaro uses the 3.6liter V6 while the Corvette does not. 

An I6 as a base engine for a Corvette, especially in the rumoured mid-engined C8 does seem intriguing, but I do not think the masses are ready  for an I6 base engined Corvette just yet. Let them get used to a small displacement (for a Corvette)  DOHC V8 in mid-engine behind the driver configuration first, then Chevrolet could try to sell an I6 base engined Vette...

Camaro...now that intrigues me...but... THE engine to have in a Camaro IS a V8.  As a middle offering, that would be cool, but an I6 engine in a Camaro SHOULD be the center piece, not playing second fiddle to a V8.   Unless Chevy drops the V8 for an I6 in a Camaro...but are the Chevy/Camaro faithful ready for that? Kinda like the Vette situation...

GM could put an I6 in their midsized pick-up trucks, like they did with the Atlas I6 in the SUV GMT360 platform. 

There must be a reason why GM discontinued the Atlas in one short generation.  Because they could have used it elsewhere.  Millions of R&D money squandered...

In their fullsized pick-up trucks?  Well, they have gone the way of putting 4 cylinders in them...so...there goes that idea...

At least FCA has the Alfa Romeo Guilia, Maserati sedan and coupe, possibly the Levante SUV and then there is the possibility that a Charger and Challenger survive.   FCA did say that a 'Cuda version of a Challenger is in the works for the next generation...

In my opinion, FCA has more options for an I6 than does GM. It would be nice, but GM has dropped the ball in their product planning and are cutting some cars from their stable. Cadillac, from 3 RWD cars, they are going down to 1. No coupes either. 

That leaves the Alpha platform Camaro. And no word what platform the next generation Camaro will be on...

 

 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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I assume GM killed the Altas 6 because they killed the GMT-360 platform.  No midsize RWD SUVs, no straight 6.   They couldn't have used it in the FWD/transverse CUVs and cars they've built over the last decade.  V6s made sense as they can be used in RWD and FWD transverse engine platforms. 

As for the next Camaro, I assume it will be on whatever the CT4 (ATS replacement) is on... 

Edited by Robert Hall

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Oh yeah, I forgot about the CT4.

I assumed (wrongfully) when I read that Cadillac is killing the CT6 that they were killing off all other sedans in their line-up too. Journalists sometimes miss the point. Several articles mention that the ATS and CTS are also phased out. What they fail to mention is that the CTS and CT6 will morph into the CT5. And the ATS will be the CT4.   I just forgot about the CT4....

So...wouldnt it be a grand idea for the CT4, CT5 and possibly the Camaro have an I6?   Yes it would, but highly unlikely...like I said, GM's corporate 6 cylinder is the high value 3.6.   Cadillac's signature 6 cylinder is the 3.0liter.  

As far as the Atlas goes, I wondered why they never tried to re-work it to put it in the Cadillac CTS and RWD STS. 

It had all the modern tech of the time.  All for the year 2002. 

1. DOHC (for the folks that consider DOHC modern)

2. Aluminium block and heads (this was in 2002 and mass produced to get costs down in several popular mid-sized SUV offerings.  Along with their mid-sized pick-up truck siblings)

3. Engineered to be scaled down. There was the I4, I5 and the I6...the 4 and 5 cylinder versions were in the pick-up trucks. All shared components to further be cheaper to produce.

4. It had VVT.

It was THE perfect engine to do battle with BMW for their new CTS...

Lost opportunities? 

Over at FCA, at least FCA says the right things to get back to glory.  

And they do have some products that lend to the possibility of greatness. Its just too bad that Chrysler and Dodge do not seem to be part of that.  Alfa Romeo,  Maserati and then Fiat and Jeep.   Too bad...

 

 

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Alfa, Maserati and Fiat are dead brands walking, can't see a point in investing further in them, though they probably will.

   As far as a GM I6, I don't see it happening.  They have the DOHC V6s which works fine for RWD and FWD applications.  

The Atlas died with the old GM--the plant that built it and the plant that built the GMT-360 long closed/demolished, the tooling probably long scrapped or landfilled.  Part of the legacy of that decade of failure for GM.  

I don't expect major new ICE engine families from GM in the future, as Mary Barra has stated GM's future is EVs and AVs..

Edited by Robert Hall
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11 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Good for FCA.  Now if only GM would build their own inline 6. . . . .

They should, there is no reason to spend any development dollars on a V6 any more.  The V6 was used for packaging in front drive cars.  But you can get 300 hp from a 4 cylinder engine now and there is no reason to ever put more than 300 hp in a front drive car.  Thus any 6 cylinder will be a rear drive vehicle and square packaging isn't an issue.

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9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

What would GM do with an inline 6?

 

I didn't want to quote the whole post to save space.  But the inline six could go in these products:

Cadillac CT3, CT5, CT6

Cadillac Escalade, Chevy Tahoe/Suburban, GMC Yukon.

Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra

Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon

Chevy Camaro, Corvette

Possible future Cadillac Omega platform SUV or possible future rear drive XT5/XT6

Obviously those products would have another engine choice also and you'd have a couple different levels of tune for various products, but that seems like enough volume.

Impala, LaCrosse, XTS die so no V6 need.  The V6 can be replaced with a turbo 4 (with hybrid option) in Blazer/Acadia/Traverse/Enclave.  And 3 of those are base 4 cylinder already.

The only reason not to develop an Inline 6 is if GM thinks the current V6 is the last 6 cylinder they will ever have and they are going to electric in 5 years, but I don't think the switch will be that fast.

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35 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Alfa, Maserati and Fiat are dead brands walking, can't see a point in investing further in them, though they probably will.

   As far as a GM I6, I don't see it happening.  They have the DOHC V6s which works fine for RWD and FWD applications.  

The Atlas died with the old GM--the plant that built it and the plant that built the GMT-360 long closed/demolished, the tooling probably long scrapped or landfilled.  Part of the legacy of that decade of failure for GM.  

I don't expect major new ICE engine families from GM in the future, as Mary Barra has stated GM's future is EVs and AVs..

Alfa, Maserati and Fiat are one recession away from death, much like Jaguar is.  But FCA needs a new engine to replace the Pentastar, so they can all share it.

GM can use a turbo 4 anywhere they have a V6 now, and half their FWD V6 product gets killed in 2019 anyway.

I think that Atlas engine was large and or heavy even for the time.  It probably would not have fit in a CTS or STS.  Regardless they would need a clean sheet design now.  Plus if they share parts and tooling with their 2 liter inline 4, you have cost savings.  

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1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Alfa, Maserati and Fiat are dead brands walking, can't see a point in investing further in them, though they probably will.

   As far as a GM I6, I don't see it happening.  They have the DOHC V6s which works fine for RWD and FWD applications.  

The Atlas died with the old GM--the plant that built it and the plant that built the GMT-360 long closed/demolished, the tooling probably long scrapped or landfilled.  Part of the legacy of that decade of failure for GM.  

I don't expect major new ICE engine families from GM in the future, as Mary Barra has stated GM's future is EVs and AVs..

Sorry to correct you but Moraine truck assembly was not demolished it lives on as a glass plant. 

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3 minutes ago, 67impss said:

Sorry to correct you but Moraine truck assembly was not demolished it lives on as a glass plant. 

Interesting..thought I read it was torn down... 

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38 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Interesting..thought I read it was torn down... 

One of the Glass plants is now owned by the Chinese iirc.

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10 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

One of the Glass plants is now owned by the Chinese iirc.

Yes it took forever to get up and running but they are a major employer in the Miami Valley and still growing there are a few other companies in the old complex also but tiny in comparison. FUYAO was always Chinese though, also a plant in Mt. Zion, IL  

FUYAO GLASS AMERICA

WE’RE AN OEM GLASS SUPPLIER TO ALL MAJOR AUTO MANUFACTURERS

General Motors, Ford, BMW, Honda, Bentley and more all use Fuyao glass in their newly manufactured automobiles. When top of the line auto glass is required then Fuyao glass is what’s needed.

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