Fourth-Quarter 2018: General Motors

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

While I agree the Blazer is priced ridiculously the Edge ST and Grand Cherokee easily surpass 45k. 

A Grand Cherokee Overland($48,745),  High Altitude($51,240), and Summit($55,040) are all above 45k in 2WD and 4WD. 4WD prices are what I typed out.  

I think the Grand Cherokee can be well worth $45k and up if you equip it right. It is certainly the most capable vehicle in the segment off-road and probably on-road as well. 

[smk4565]

50 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

but then you'd complain about the pushrods.

Well they could put a turbo V6 in there also like the Edge ST.  I think a V8 SUV would be pretty thirsty and even if the Blazer was on a Camaro platform I doubt they would go there with it.  Camaro/Charger/Jeep buyers don't care about pushrod, so they can get away with it.  The V8 will be dead in 10 years anyway.  The problem really though isn't the engine on the Blazer it is the price tag.

[ccap41]

29 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think the Grand Cherokee can be well worth $45k and up if you equip it right. It is certainly the most capable vehicle in the segment off-road and probably on-road as well. 

Definitely. The Trail Hawk was just a tad under 45k as well and nothing else in that class of SUV/CUV can touch it off the beaten path. 

I didn't even include any of the SRT versions. I thought they were pretty obviously going to cost more than 45k. 

[ocnblu]

9 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Oddly, Chevy is making the Traverse RS in FWD only.... I wonder if the same thing is happening at least in terms of production mix with Blazer. 

https://www.chevrolet.com/suvs/traverse-mid-size-suv/build-and-price/packages

Not true.  I can confirm this because local dealer recently had an AWD RS in Cajun Red.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

https://www.chevrolet.com/suvs/traverse-mid-size-suv/build-and-price/packages

Not true.  I can confirm this because local dealer recently had an AWD RS in Cajun Red.

Looks like it was a 2018 limitation. Config and price for 2018 is still up and you can't do a RS 2.0T with AWD. But 2019 you can.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Odd.  There was a 2018 Blazer?  Thought 2019 was the first model year for this. 

Traverse

[ocnblu]

$39,530 for a Grand Cherokee Laredo E with All-Weather Trail Rated package and trailering package.  Sounds to me like a much more valuable vehicle over time than a Blazer RS AWD priced in the mid $40k range with no options.  The Jeep is for town and country, even back country, where the Blazer is strictly street, and that limits its value.  I love the Walnut Brown on the Jeep, and that's good, because Jeep has a severely restricted color palette on the Grand Cherokee.  Wondering why that is.

Drew, the RS is also available with 3.6L for 2019 in the Traverse.  I guess their hand was forced by their own Blazer, re:  RS trim more widely available.

Edited January 9, 2019 by ocnblu

[Cmicasa the Great]

10 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Oddly, Chevy is making the Traverse RS in FWD only.... I wonder if the same thing is happening at least in terms of production mix with Blazer. 

You're right though that the RS is the looker of the bunch.  The rest of the trims don't excite me much, but I do like the RS. 

What am I missing. The Traverse RS can definitely be had in AWD.

Also.. I think U folks should realize that the GM is using a Sales tactic that is designed to automatically make a customer feel like they are getting over on the dealership, or manufacturer. The RS Blazer that I posted is damn near fully loaded is currently MSRP $51K and GM had $3K on the hood already. That's a fact

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

.  I love the Walnut Brown on the Jeep, and that's good, because Jeep has a severely restricted color palette on the Grand Cherokee.  Wondering why that is.

90% of GCs over the last 5 years have been metallic black or white, or so it seems.  I love the brown, want my next one brown.  

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

What am I missing. The Traverse RS can definitely be had in AWD.

Also.. I think U folks should realize that the GM is using a Sales tactic that is designed to automatically make a customer feel like they are getting over on the dealership, or manufacturer. The RS Blazer that I posted is damn near fully loaded is currently MSRP $51K and GM had $3K on the hood already. That's a fact

2018 it was FWD only.

[balthazar]

On 1/7/2019 at 12:43 PM, Robert Hall said:

Which then begs the question do they need both GMC and Buick in the US, since they overlap so much. 

Mercedes & BMW are both 'overlappin in the USA'.

Seriously; I thought more choice was always betterer.

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Mercedes & BMW are both 'overlappin in the USA'.

Seriously; I thought more choice was always betterer.

Invalid analogy; MB and BMW are different companies with different product.  

[balthazar]

Nonsense- same lineup model-for-model!  Who cares if the parent company is different? :D

What about my 'we should always want more choice' statement? 🤔

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Nonsense- same lineup model-for-model!  Who cares if the parent company is different?

What about my 'we should always want more choice' statement? 🤔

  I was talking about Buick and GMC crossovers..two brands of the same company, same platforms, same engines, same dealerships!!!!!!!   Same meat, different toppings, likewise for Chevy.      You made a totally invalid analogy.  Besides, Mercedes has vans and many more 2 seat roadsters than BMW.   

Edited January 9, 2019 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

You have no sense of whimsy.

I don't think general consumers know, care OR can tell that an intangible "platform" is shared, and after decades of derision against GM for 'platform sharing'- low & behold- many of the major conglomerates have only been moving toward doing the exact same thing. Now... not only are rivals partnering up to build each other components and whole vehicles, business conservatism is forcing brands to be more & more & more alike in product.  2.0L AND 3.0L ENGINES FOR EVERYONE!!! :P

[daves87rs]

On 1/7/2019 at 11:17 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

I wonder how much of the SUV change over is just the general aging of the population. Hauling Albert's parents around it is much easier to get them in and out of the Encore than it is to get them in and out of the Cruze. 

I would agree with that...though lucky my parents have such things to climb into. Heck, I’m getting older and like the height of my Nox as well.

Though I expect this  to be the last month for any kind of decent sales. Between the shutdown and other economic issues, I expect a nasty downtown in pretty much anything. Had I not already had plans for the Equinox, I would have just waited or got used, which will be what the wife will get...

[Robert Hall]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

You have no sense of whimsy.

I don't think general consumers know, care OR can tell that an intangible "platform" is shared 

True, no whimsy.  And I couldn't care less what consumers know.  This is an enthusiast site, after all...

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Also.. I think U folks should realize that the GM is using a Sales tactic that is designed to automatically make a customer feel like they are getting over on the dealership, or manufacturer. The RS Blazer that I posted is damn near fully loaded is currently MSRP $51K and GM had $3K on the hood already. That's a fact

Nice, they're trying to sell cars like Kohls sells clothes. 

[oldshurst442]

On 1/7/2019 at 11:28 AM, ccap41 said:

I'm still on the younger side of life and getting in and out of a smaller SUV/CUV is much preferred than getting out of my Focus. I thought my Escape's seat height was perfect for my height. The step in and out was almost exactly my standing height so I didn't step up or down to get in and out of it. 

I want another. 

 

On 1/7/2019 at 11:58 AM, Robert Hall said:

I get it...after almost 25 years of having an SUV as a daily driver, I find it perfectly natural.  My WK2 GC sits a bit higher than my WJ GC (20 vs 16 inch wheels/tires), but it's still very easy to get in and out compared to a car.. I was 24 when I first started driving SUVs daily (Bronco II)...and now I'm 48..and feel my age in my knees and hips.. though I do miss driving cars w/ manuals. 

 

1 hour ago, daves87rs said:

I would agree with that...though lucky my parents have such things to climb into. Heck, I’m getting older and like the height of my Nox as well.

Though I expect this  to be the last month for any kind of decent sales. Between the shutdown and other economic issues, I expect a nasty downtown in pretty much anything. Had I not already had plans for the Equinox, I would have just waited or got used, which will be what the wife will get...

 

You guys are sissies!!!  We keep talking about about how sedans are going away, we discuss how vehicles are becoming appliances...

Back in the 1980s,  middle aged men drove these around with nie a complain.

 

Burt Reynolds was 41???!!!   

 

Im dissapoint...

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

I'm not even upset sedans are going away because I currently have no interest in buying one. 

[David]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm not even upset sedans are going away because I currently have no interest in buying one. 

Quoted for Truth, Yup Sedans have no interest to me and will not in the future either. Trucks and SUVs baby!  

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Quoted for Truth, Yup Sedans have no interest to me and will not in the future either. Trucks and SUVs baby!  

Absolutely. there just isn't a sedan that makes me want it over a comparable SUV/CUV. 

I either want a sporty coupe or an SUV/CUV/truck. I just don't really care about sedans. 

[A Horse With No Name]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Absolutely. there just isn't a sedan that makes me want it over a comparable SUV/CUV. 

I either want a sporty coupe or an SUV/CUV/truck. I just don't really care about sedans. 

Actually yes to some extent.  Now that I am about to become an empty nester with my youngest heading off to college I will be driving less. Slight reduction in fuel economy would not hurt me that much.

That being said....Jeep so much more wants my buisiness in this category than GM Ford Honda or Toyota

Could see myself with a Jeep in the driveway.

[oldshurst442]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Absolutely. there just isn't a sedan that makes me want it over a comparable SUV/CUV. 

I either want a sporty coupe or an SUV/CUV/truck. I just don't really care about sedans. 

For me....it is the opposite.

Obviously now,  and for the last 2,3,4, 5 years now, sedans have gotten to be, not that interesting.  That would be because CUVs have taken over...

But...fir me at least, all these new CUV entries we have had in the last 5 years, not one interests me. Not one! 

I keep on going back to the only SUV that I ever loved. And that would be the original Jeep. CJ, YJ, TJ, JK, JL...

I can tolerate the Ford Edge. Im really liking the Aviator. The Blazer looks to be alright, but I doubt that it excite me to the point where I could say yippee!!!  The Jeep Grand Cherokee is also tolerable.

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

31 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

 

 

You guys are sissies!!!  We keep talking about about how sedans are going away, we discuss how vehicles are becoming appliances...

Back in the 1980s,  middle aged men drove these around with nie a complain.

 

Burt Reynolds was 41???!!!   

 

Im dissapoint...

 

 

And now you are a dude in your forties who secretly wants to be Burt Reynolds.

News for ya...Sally has aged a bit since the seventies.

[David]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Absolutely. there just isn't a sedan that makes me want it over a comparable SUV/CUV. 

I either want a sporty coupe or an SUV/CUV/truck. I just don't really care about sedans. 

This is why I love my Trailblazer SS AWD, fast roomy and fun to drive. Wife loves it as a perfect size for her but she does want an EV pickup so Rivian or Atlis is the companies I will be watching as we have seen nothing from Detroit based OEMs.

GM has WASTED the chance of taking the Sharp Blazer and making an SS that would be awesome. Yet with their stupid overpriced nutjob packaging of features, I doubt we will see anything like this any time soon.

[Cmicasa the Great]

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

2018 it was FWD only.

Perhaps they came to their senses. 

[David]

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Actually yes to some extent.  Now that I am about to become an empty nester with my youngest heading off to college I will be driving less. Slight reduction in fuel economy would not hurt me that much.

That being said....Jeep so much more wants my buisiness in this category than GM Ford Honda or Toyota

Could see myself with a Jeep in the driveway.

My Son loves his Jeep Grand Cherokee, I fit comfy in it with the Wife, daughter and son's girlfriend in the back. Yes to roomy big people accommodating SUVs.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And now you are a dude in your forties who secretly wants to be Burt Reynolds.

News for ya...Sally has aged a bit since the seventies.

Nope. Just a 5-6 year old kid that never wants to grow up (old?)   

On second thought, the General Lee with Daisy Duke shorts...😇

I wonder if my wife could fit in those? 🤔  

 

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And now you are a dude in your forties who secretly wants to be Burt Reynolds.

News for ya...Sally has aged a bit since the seventies.

Lol...well, I'd admit at some level I'd secretly like to be Tom Selleck (Magnum PI) in the red Ferrari 308 GTS circa 1982....or Don Johnson (Sonny Crockett) in the Ferrari Testarossa in Miami circa 1985...  or at least have their hair.

[David]

6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And now you are a dude in your forties who secretly wants to be Burt Reynolds.

News for ya...Sally has aged a bit since the seventies.

Plus Burt was looking so Asian before he died last September 2018 due to all the face lifts to keep attempting to look young rather than accept aging gracefully. We all get old, not the years but the miles and working out keeps ya going Spartan Strong!

[Cmicasa the Great]

12 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Invalid analogy; MB and BMW are different companies with different product.  

The original question made little sense then. One could easily ask if Lexus and Toyota are necessary... if Infiniti and Nissan.. if at this point.. Porsche and Audi (now that one is a serious one) are necessary in the U.S. since the Panamara and the A8/A7 essentially compete.. the Cayenne and Q5 compete.. the Macan and Q3.. the R8 and 911 T compete.

Buick offers a softer side while GMC is still way more rugged. Not to mention that GMC and Buick print money for GM just by offering variants of Chevy products. I know people who won't touch a Sierra over a Silverado and vice versa. This is a real thing. 

[David]

19 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Lol...well, I'd admit at some level I'd secretly like to be Tom Selleck (Magnum PI) in the red Ferrari 308 GTS circa 1982....or Don Johnson (Sonny Crockett) in the Ferrari Testarossa in Miami circa 1985...  or at least have their hair.

I could go for being myself on Don Johnson Boat in Miami Vice flying through the water.  

[Robert Hall]

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

 

Buick offers a softer side while GMC is still way more rugged. 

That's just marketing blather, though...are the CUVs really that different besides the styling?  Same AWD/FWD/transverse engine appliances....

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

That's just marketing blather, though...are the CUVs really that different besides the styling?  Same AWD/FWD/transverse engine appliances....

The GMCs get available mild off-road AWD systems.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Bottom line is that where GM truly bewilders me and actually fails.. is that for some reason they won't just install their higher hp Turbo V6s (they have three in the 400-470HP range) in vehicles that would be screamers with them. This Blazer RS as an SS with a, LF3, LF4, or LGW would be insane. The XT5, XT4, Acadia, Traverse or Enclave.. Who wouldn't be in line to run any of those with one of those three aforementioned engine choices? The Twin-Clutch AWD system is optimized to allow Rear Wheel bias on the Blazer Premiere and RS... and I'm sorry, but to me this is a far sexier vehicle than a Trailhawk Cherokee.. even in non-RS form

 

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The GMCs get available mild off-road AWD systems.

"available" and mild  are the key words.

Even if most people actually do choose that option, how many of them actually off road their MILD off roader GMC CUVs?

In my book, either you are an offroading sports utility vehicle or you are a soccer mom, geezermobile appliance vehicle meant to get your old fart ass in and out of the vehicle more easily...

Edited January 9, 2019 by oldshurst442

[David]

2 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Bottom line is that where GM truly bewilders me and actually fails.. is that for some reason they won't just install their higher hp Turbo V6s (they have three in the 400-470HP range) in vehicles that would be screamers with them. This Blazer RS as an SS with a, LF3, LF4, or LGW would be insane. The XT5, XT4, Acadia, Traverse or Enclave.. Who wouldn't be in line to run any of those with one of those three aforementioned engine choices? The Twin-Clutch AWD system is optimized to allow Rear Wheel bias on the Blazer Premiere and RS... and I'm sorry, but to me this is a far sexier vehicle than a Trailhawk Cherokee.. even in non-RS form

 

I do wonder if GM is doing their normal Stupid thing of bring out the normal levels, then in a year offer a little more performance and then the following year a little more and as they get to mid life, they then offer the SS top performance version. To me just stupid as I have no interest in the lower end versions, but the RS while I love the look inside and out, is trumped by the Trailhawk with the v8 and adjustable suspension for offroad capabilities that the same priced Blazer does not have nor can compete with.

[A Horse With No Name]

16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Plus Burt was looking so Asian before he died last September 2018 due to all the face lifts to keep attempting to look young rather than accept aging gracefully. We all get old, not the years but the miles and working out keeps ya going Spartan Strong!

The Greeks are inherently Spartan Strong...or so we are told...

5 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I do wonder if GM is doing their normal Stupid thing of bring out the normal levels, then in a year offer a little more performance and then the following year a little more and as they get to mid life, they then offer the SS top performance version. To me just stupid as I have no interest in the lower end versions, but the RS while I love the look inside and out, is trumped by the Trailhawk with the v8 and adjustable suspension for offroad capabilities that the same priced Blazer does not have nor can compete with.

Jeep powertrains a 4WD systems for the win. 

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

"available" and mild  are the key words.

Even if most people actually do choose that option, how many of them actually off road their MILD off roader GMC CUVs?

In my book, either you are an offroading sports utility vehicle or you are a soccer mom, geezermobile appliance vehicle meant to get your old fart ass in and out of the vehicle more easily...

See above comments about Jeep...go big or go home...just like the Greek Spartan thing...

[frogger]

8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

"available" and mild  are the key words.

Even if most people actually do choose that option, how many of them actually off road their MILD off roader GMC CUVs?

In my book, either you are an offroading sports utility vehicle or you are a soccer mom, geezermobile appliance vehicle emant to ghet your groceries for better egress and ingress entry and exit form the vehicle's cabin... 

 

As if the sedans and minivans people used to buy handled like sports cars with their understeering front heavy FWD 60/40 weight distribution and no season tires.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by frogger

[A Horse With No Name]

10 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Bottom line is that where GM truly bewilders me and actually fails.. is that for some reason they won't just install their higher hp Turbo V6s (they have three in the 400-470HP range) in vehicles that would be screamers with them. This Blazer RS as an SS with a, LF3, LF4, or LGW would be insane. The XT5, XT4, Acadia, Traverse or Enclave.. Who wouldn't be in line to run any of those with one of those three aforementioned engine choices? The Twin-Clutch AWD system is optimized to allow Rear Wheel bias on the Blazer Premiere and RS... and I'm sorry, but to me this is a far sexier vehicle than a Trailhawk Cherokee.. even in non-RS form

 

Nice but the rear is a little bit Mazda-esque and not in a good way. Still a good looking vehicle though. 

1 minute ago, frogger said:

As if the sedans and minivans people used to buy handled like sports cars with their understeering front heavy FWD 60/40 weight distribution.

 

 

 

 

 

As an enthusiast...I like the idea of a decent 4wd system if I have to give up nimble handling. Advantage...Jeep. 

14 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The GMCs get available mild off-road AWD systems.

I never like it mild...see the above leather and Spartan thing.  Go big or go home!

[Cmicasa the Great]

30 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

That's just marketing blather, though...are the CUVs really that different besides the styling?  Same AWD/FWD/transverse engine appliances....

It is marketing blather.. but as I pointed out earlier.. It has pushed GM, a company that for 10 years prior to a legendary BK, was losing Billions, $39 Billion in 2007 and $30 Billion in 2008 alone.. to one of the most profitable automakers on the planet. Furthermore their ATPS are actually top dog.. without anything really over $130K MSRP for a mainstream brand.

Appliances sell. Many, no most, out there praised Toyota and Honda for their "Frigidaires (ironically once a GM brand) on Wheels, but people want to crucify GM for now doing it. What saves them in my eyes is that their performance vehicles are fukking SICK!!! And I'm lucky enough to be able to afford them. Not a boast, but fact.   

Alfred Sloan philosophy is being utilized only slightly by GM, while being used 100% by Toyota for instance. Crazy turn of events. The Enclave, Traverse, Acadia, XT6 strategy is BRILLIANT! I don't care what anyone says.. and nor should GM, because the consumers.. the public who don't listen to this banter about platforms and are buying in droves. 345K sales last year of Cxx alone.. GM would be a fool to not continue that practice. The Blazer will add to that, as will the XT6. I'm betting minimal 450K sales 2019 for the Cxx platform in the U.S.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Cmicasa the Great

[A Horse With No Name]

19 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I could go for being myself on Don Johnson Boat in Miami Vice flying through the water.  

Would take a big boat!

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

and I'm sorry, but to me this is a far sexier vehicle than a Trailhawk Cherokee.. even in non-RS form

 

Ummmm..NO!!!

 

Its a copy/pasted and enlarged by 25% Mazda CX3 with design elements from a Nissan Murano of a couple of generations ago which in itself is a taller, clumsier Mazda 3 hatchback...

The Grand Cherokee is no styling beauty either...

 

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

It is marketing blather.. but as I pointed out earlier.. It has pushed GM, a company that for 10 years prior to a legendary BK, was losing Billions, $39 Billion in 2007 and $30 Billion in 2008 alone.. to one of the most profitable automakers on the planet. Furthermore their ATPS are actually top dog.. without anything really over $130K MSRP for a mainstream brand.

Appliances sell. Many, no most, out there praised Toyota and Honda for their "Frigidaires (ironically once a GM brand) on Wheels, but people want to crucify GM for now doing it. What saves them in my eyes is that their performance vehicles are fukking SICK!!! And I'm lucky enough to be able to afford them. Not a boast, but fact.   

Alfred Sloan philosophy is being utilized only slightly by GM, while being used 100% by Toyota for instance. Crazy turn of events. The Enclave, Traverse, Acadia, XT6 is BRILLIANT! I don't care what anyone says.. and nor should GM, because the consumers.. the public who don't listen to this banter about platforms and are buying in droves. 345K sales last year of Cxx alone.. GM would be a fool to not continue that practice. The Blazer will add to that, as will the XT6. I'm betting minimal 450K sales 2019 for the Cxx platform in the U.S.

It is an amazing platform, yes you are correct. 

[frogger]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Nice but the rear is a little bit Mazda-esque and not in a good way. Still a good looking vehicle though.

Like a two row CX9 but much pricier.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

Ummmm..NO!!!

 

Its a copy/pasted and enlarged by 25% Mazda CX3 with design elements from a Nissan Murano of a couple of generations ago which in itself is a taller, clumsier Mazda 3 hatchback...

The Grand Cherokee is no styling beauty either...

 

 

 

Glad someone else sees the Mazda similarity

 

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I do wonder if GM is doing their normal Stupid thing of bring out the normal levels, then in a year offer a little more performance and then the following year a little more and as they get to mid life, they then offer the SS top performance version. To me just stupid as I have no interest in the lower end versions, but the RS while I love the look inside and out, is trumped by the Trailhawk with the v8 and adjustable suspension for offroad capabilities that the same priced Blazer does not have nor can compete with.

What was the last vehicle they offered an SS version that wasn't a Camaro? 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, frogger said:

Like a two row CX9 but much pricier.

...yeah...but I have to give props to GM for giving more options than Mazda and looking better in the front. and Micassa is right, a performance version of these would be sick. 

Just now, ccap41 said:

What was the last vehicle they offered an SS version that wasn't a Camaro? 

SS Sedan...Trailblazer...

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nope. Just a 5-6 year old kid that never wants to grow up (old?)   

On second thought, the General Lee with Daisy Duke shorts...😇

I wonder if my wife could fit in those? 🤔  

 

After Canadian winters, most Canadian women are lucky if they can fit in the charger, forget the shorts. 

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, frogger said:

As if the sedans and minivans people used to buy handled like sports cars with their understeering front heavy FWD 60/40 weight distribution and no season tires.

Sedans...

not minivans...

Sedans...

Well, the V-Series Cadillacs, the regular sedan Cadillacs, the M cars from BMW, the regular Bimmers and the like beg to differ from this POV.

Also, even if we are talking about understearing front heavy FWD 60/40 weight distribusion sedans, physics come into play. 

Sedans are not tall and top heavy...so...even a  compact 1994 Pontiac Grand Am GT with a lowly 3.1 liter OHV V6 with ONLY 155HP and tons of plastic body cladding and a rattling plastic dashboard is still 10000% times more fun to drive than an Equinox...