Dodge News: Next-Generation Dodge Challenger To Embrace Electrification

[William Maley]

The Dodge Challenger has been enjoying a resurgence for the past couple of years, due in part to the supercharged variants known as the Hellcat and Demon. But Fiat Chrysler CEO Mike Manley tells the Detroit News, the next-generation Challenger will be quite different.

"The reality is those platforms and that technology we used does need to move on. They can’t exist as you get into the middle-2020s. New technology is going to drive a load of weight out, so we can think of the powertrains in a different way. And we can use electrification to really supplement those vehicles," said Manley.

"I think that electrification will certainly be part of the formula that says what is American muscle in the future. What it isn’t going to be is a V-8, supercharged, 700-horsepower engine."

It is unclear what is in store for the next-generation Challenger. We previously reported that the model would move to the Giorgio platform - what underpins the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio. But last year, a story came out that next-generation Challenger and Charger would use a heavily re-worked version of the current LX platform - one that can trace its roots back to Mercedes-Benz models from the 1990s.

As for possible engines, we wouldn't be surprised if the 2.0L turbo-four found in the Jeep Wrangler becomes available in the next-generation Challenger. There is also the rumor of a new inline-six taking the place of the current Pentastar V6, which we would assume could get some form of electrification. But Kelly Blue Book analyst Karl Brauer is skeptical about muscle cars and electrification co-existing.

"There's a long-standing rule about what constitutes American muscle, but electrification is not part of it. I need something that gets my blood pumping," said Brauer.

"The Challenger is now challenging the Mustang for sales primacy with a V-8. Who would have thought that? In terms of sales, the supercharged V-8s have worked well."

We're guessing that FCA will be keeping some sort of V8 option, possibly one with some sort of electric boost.

Source: The Detroit News

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[A Horse With No Name]

We will see how all of the electrics do, public perception and reception may trail product availability.

[riviera74]

So no new platform for the Charger/300/Challenger triplets.  That is so Sergio: undercut ChryCo products and coddle FIAT products at ChryCo expense.  Apparently the new guy may not want ChryCo to succeed either.

[balthazar]

Most all electric cars are heavier than their counterparts, not lighter. A Bolt is 300-400 lbs heavier than a Malibu.

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Most all electric cars are heavier than their counterparts, not lighter. A Bolt is 300-400 lbs heavier than a Malibu.

So a Challenger EV could be potentially 4500lbs...cool.   The Giorgio platform was too small and lightweight anyway compared to the current LX/LC. 

[balthazar]

Annnnd no one wants a 'George' platform under their Challenger, anyway.

[David]

25 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

So a Challenger EV could be potentially 4500lbs...cool.   The Giorgio platform was too small and lightweight anyway compared to the current LX/LC. 

Plus Tesla has proven what a proper P100D could do, I can so see a New Demon Challanger destroying the Tesla and the Mustang and Camaro if done right.

Cool

[balthazar]

Demon already destroys the P100D. It's done right.

[David]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Demon already destroys the P100D. It's done right.

Yes for an ICE it is, No reason to not give up the noise and fumes and have a Demon 2.0 that can strike in the night in stealthy quietness.  

[oldshurst442]

Giorgio platform (I guess the platform is a good one. The looks of the Guilia are sexy enough, but its the motor under the suit that get my vote...but that Ferrari V6 is NOT OR WILL EVER BE a MOPAR V8!!!)

Giorgio Armani  (Im not into his fashions) but there is one Giorgio that I dig...

Giorgio Moroder 

 

I feel love for an electrified Muscle Car.  I want my muscle car Challenger to remain beefy as it is. Maybe a tad less weight do to a newer platform that benefits from weight reduction materials, but I do want it to retain more or less the same exterior and interior dimensions. No substantially bigger and no substantially smaller therefore maybe a Giorgio platform is not the answer for a new Challenger. 

So... the old platform seems to be gettiing reworked again. The Challenger brings the goods with this version of a re-worked platform. I do not see this as a bad thing...

Back to an electrified Muscle Car. I dig that too. I buy into that idea....BUT...it looks like the MOPAR folk dont think that a muscle car should be 100% electrified.   That is a very good thing.  It looks like the Challenger might be trading in supercharge assist for electric motor assist while retaining V8 goodness.  That I applaud. Maybe the supercharger stays too?   All the better if it does. More muscle car badassery to kick Teutonic and Japanese and Swedish and Chinese ass!!!  

MUSCLE CARS RULE. NO MATTER WHAT IS UNDER THE HOOD.  Or...um...under the seats because skateboard platform with a battery pack residing there. 

 

(BUT IM DOWN WITH ELECTRIC MOTOR ASSIST IN THAT HELLCAT!!!) 

Edited January 21, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Guest Potluck]

Breaking news, there will be a next gen Challenger of any kind.

[smk4565]

I am sure for the right price Mercedes will sell them a mid 2000s E-class platform if they want something newer.  That LX platform is way dated now, they have to do something, and Giorgio is a good platform I don’t see why they couldn’t just use that.

As far as electrification goes, Tesla is now American muscle, though not a muscle car, the American performance car is a Tesla.  Especially with the new roadster that “will accelerate at the limit of what humans can withstand “ and do 250 mph.

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yes for an ICE it is, No reason to not give up the noise and fumes and have a Demon 2.0 that can strike in the night in stealthy quietness.  

You glossed over the part where I said "already destroys".

[regfootball]

At this point now I will be surprised if there is a nex gen challnger.  or maybe it goes back to front drive!  R/T!  Turismo!  GLH!  Shelby!

The market is not driving these changes, it is outside forces.  I like electrics but it is now starting to get forced down our throats.

 

 

 

should compete well with the next Camaro!  inspired by citation X11!  Front drive, electric option and look at the improved visibility!  just what everyone is asking for!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by regfootball

[David]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

You glossed over the part where I said "already destroys".

Nope, did not miss that at all, just pointing out a different kind of Demon that has better low center of gravity due to the battery pack in the skateboard concept that should give even better track grip.

I see both ICE and EV Demon having a place on the auto lot.

[balthazar]

Tesla Model S is on the same wheelbase as a Challenger, but weighs 700lbs more. Plus, center of gravity has little to no bearing on acceleration. EV-ing a Demon will very likely make it slower, not quicker.

I agree that there is room for both types of motivation. But all the talk about banning IC is nonsense we won't see in our lifetimes.

Was reading elsewhere about Tesla & VW, and how VW (and others) may surpass Tesla. It mentioned VW's claim that it would introduce 50 EV models in a short span. Why do journalists just lap PRs up like unvarnished truth?? It's like a kid assuring you Santa Claus is real. VW sold 42,xxx Golfs in 2018. Know how many were the e-Golf? 1,385. I guarantee you VW will back away from their proclamation; they cannot survive the resulting plunging sales volume.

[smk4565]

VW group might do 50 EV's.  Spread that out over VW, Skoda, Seat, Bentley, Audi, Porsche, etc and 50 would be easy to hit.  They have a ton of brands to spread that over.

[Robert Hall]

I can see VWAG building a Bugatti EV to out do Tesla’s new roadster.  Something insane with performance like 0-60 in 1 sec and 300mph top speed...

[daves87rs]

This is all assuming that FCA will have money to do things like this, with the start of a larger sales decline....

I just don’t see the money there-I see a future for some electric Jeeps, and a phase out of dodge with special editions on it’s way out....

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, daves87rs said:

This is all assuming that FCA will have money to do things like this, with the start of a larger sales decline....

I just don’t see the money there-I see a future for some electric Jeeps, and a phase out of dodge with special editions on it’s way out....

Quoted for truth my friend.

[Drew Dowdell]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I am sure for the right price Mercedes will sell them a mid 2000s E-class platform if they want something newer.  That LX platform is way dated now, they have to do something, and Giorgio is a good platform I don’t see why they couldn’t just use that.

As far as electrification goes, Tesla is now American muscle, though not a muscle car, the American performance car is a Tesla.  Especially with the new roadster that “will accelerate at the limit of what humans can withstand “ and do 250 mph.

1

Again you keep repeating this and other falsehoods. First warning.

There is nothing left of the original LX platform. The 5-speed automatic is gone, the interior trim pieces have been replaced, the rear differential and suspension setup are all replaced.  All of this is researchable by you even if you don't believe what we've been telling you for a long time now.

 

[ykX]

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

You glossed over the part where I said "already destroys".

For Demon to destroy Tesla you need to put those funny little wheels on the front, change computer and put in it 100 octane gas.   I don't think it can destroy Tesla in a street form.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Again you keep repeating this and other falsehoods. First warning.

There is nothing left of the original LX platform. The 5-speed automatic is gone, the interior trim pieces have been replaced, the rear differential and suspension setup are all replaced.  All of this is researchable by you even if you don't believe what we've been telling you for a long time now.

 

Okay, so even not taking into account when any platform was made.  How competitive are the Charger/300/Challenger to a Camaro or Mustang?  Or the 300 to a Maxima or Avalon or Impala?  All those big sedans are dying off anyway, but Chrysler sales are down.  Challenger sells well for a coupe but a feel like a lot of Challenger/Charger sales are fleets without a lot profit behind it.  

And they are probably facing CAFE issues post 2020 but that is a powertrain issue.

[David]

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Okay, so even not taking into account when any platform was made.  How competitive are the Charger/300/Challenger to a Camaro or Mustang?  Or the 300 to a Maxima or Avalon or Impala?  All those big sedans are dying off anyway, but Chrysler sales are down.  Challenger sells well for a coupe but a feel like a lot of Challenger/Charger sales are fleets without a lot profit behind it.  

And they are probably facing CAFE issues post 2020 but that is a powertrain issue.

For one, the majority of people are NOT Performance People. As such, many just like the style and design of the Auto which is proved out in how well Dodge continues to sell.

I honestly have not seen many Challengers in rental fleets. Chargers and 300 yes.

I do agree with you that it would be interesting to see the break out for Chrysler / Dodge products in fleet sales to normal retail sales.

As is proven by the continued sales, one does NOT have to always start over with a new base to continue to build a decent product that customers like. FCA has clearly as @Drew Dowdell and others pointed out take and replaced old designs with new design parts that have improved greatly the quality of the 300 and dodge cars. If they had not, we would not have the Hellcat or Demon that has done so well in those cars.

Change for the sake of change is not always needed or desired. One could easily challenge why Mercedes-Benz left the straight 6 for the V6 and now is back to it. We have all seen silky smooth engines on both engine types. As such, is this just to make the world think they have something new when they really do not have their electric auto's which will truly be different ready for the market?

I honestly do not care for many non american auto's but I respect them all. One has to respect what Dodge and Chrysler has done with what they have and the billions they have made even if it was wrongly taken away and put into a name brand that I think is a waste of money.

[ccap41]

..nobody really has electrics ready for the market.. 

[David]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

..nobody really has electrics ready for the market.. 

Agreed, other than Tesla, the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf are it as far as global EVs and even then Nissan still does not have their long range out yet so you have Tesla 3 or Chevrolet Bolt.

[A Horse With No Name]

22 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Agreed, other than Tesla, the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf are it as far as global EVs and even then Nissan still does not have their long range out yet so you have Tesla 3 or Chevrolet Bolt.

Too many electrics will flood the market and overwhelm it, just like Hybrids did.

[Drew Dowdell]

This is most likely going to be just the eTorque system which doesn't add much in the way of power, but gains you efficiency in other ways. 

[ccap41]

30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is most likely going to be just the eTorque system which doesn't add much in the way of power, but gains you efficiency in other ways. 

That would be extremely disappointing, just like the eTorque system.

What I originally heard hybrid Ram I thought it was a great leap forward and then I realized it was basically just to get moving and it wouldn't do anything once yo're rolling..I became disappointed. 

[David]

46 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That would be extremely disappointing, just like the eTorque system.

What I originally heard hybrid Ram I thought it was a great leap forward and then I realized it was basically just to get moving and it wouldn't do anything once yo're rolling..I became disappointed. 

That blows if it is! 

[ccap41]

When**

you're**

I hate catching typos late. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

That would be extremely disappointing, just like the eTorque system.

What I originally heard hybrid Ram I thought it was a great leap forward and then I realized it was basically just to get moving and it wouldn't do anything once yo're rolling..I became disappointed. 

It actually does do stuff while you're rolling, but it isn't power-add things. I should do a write up on all the things the eTorque does that aren't directly related.

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It actually does do stuff while you're rolling, but it isn't power-add things. I should do a write up on all the things the eTorque does that aren't directly related.

I know I'd appreciate that. 

[regfootball]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:27 PM, ccap41 said:

..nobody really has electrics ready for the market.. 

what's really pathetic is that with the head start on the market that GM had, after all this time, they could have truly wiped everyone else's ass off the floor by now and owned the market.

Side note, how cool would it be for GM to re release the EV1 with modern electric powertrain?

 

 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

On 1/23/2019 at 6:55 PM, regfootball said:

what's really pathetic is that with the head start on the market that GM had, after all this time, they could have truly wiped everyone else's ass off the floor by now and owned the market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woulda.  Coulda. Shoulda.  The EV-1 was a product of old GM..the dead company. 

[David]

15 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Woulda.  Coulda. Shoulda.  The EV-1 was a product of old GM..the dead company. 

Yup, The current CEO seems to think all electric, which I am very excited about especially now that they are looking to electrify the GMC Sierra!   

[regfootball]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Woulda.  Coulda. Shoulda.  The EV-1 was a product of old GM..the dead company. 

YEAH!  GM WAS SO GOOD WITH ELECTRIC CARS, THEY REALLY ......... (wait for it)    CRUSHED IT!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

they did it before anyone else.

[Robert Hall]

4 hours ago, regfootball said:

YEAH!  GM WAS SO GOOD WITH ELECTRIC CARS, THEY REALLY ......... (wait for it)    CRUSHED IT!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I remember parking in a garage in downtown Sacramento back in the early 00s and seeing a row 3-4 of these along a couple of the funky chunky Honda electric car of that time..all had CA government plates. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Robert Hall

[regfootball]

Bring back Pontiac and the Fiero.  Mid engine electric.  WOOT!

[David]

2 hours ago, regfootball said:

Bring back Pontiac and the Fiero.  Mid engine electric.  WOOT!

Done

[ocnblu]

Car companies have always tried things.  Some things work, others do not.  Such is life with electrics.  They've been tried and failed for a century.

[balthazar]

GM, 1969  XP-512 ~

'66 ElectroVair II ~

'64 ElectroVair I ~

Edited January 26, 2019 by balthazar

[riviera74]

Electrics failed because gas was and is cheap and batteries were either too weak to do the job or too expensive to justify sales.  Once the batteries are actually superior to gas and charging is as fast as filling up, sales should rise significantly.  Give them at least 10-15 years for that to happen.

[ocnblu]

6 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Give them at least 40-55 years for that to happen.

Typo fixed

14 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

they did it before anyone else.

...and stopped it for blaringly clear reasons

[Robert Hall]

Trying to come up with a good name for an electric Challenger...maybe 'AC/DC' with the lightning bolt for the slash.   Or 'High Voltage'. 

[ocnblu]

I agree with Drew, hopefully it will just be the ineffective e-torque baloney strapped on, and not full suicide.

[A Horse With No Name]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:26 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

they did it before anyone else.

Actually since GM has probably built more cars than anyone else more GM cars have been crushed than anyone else's. This is not unique to electrics.

On 1/26/2019 at 8:44 AM, ocnblu said:

I agree with Drew, hopefully it will just be the ineffective e-torque baloney strapped on, and not full suicide.

Tell us how you really feel.

[Drew Dowdell]

No... please don't. We've all heard it all before. 

[A Horse With No Name]

AC DC can do well in Amish country...they have their own heavy metal...

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

No... please don't. We've all heard it all before. 

We have never used sarcasm before here at C and G so no one recognized it.