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William Maley

Tesla Cuts Model 3 Price Again

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There was a HUGE pull-ahead in December Model 3 sales, undoubtedly due to the lowering of the tax credit. Tesla moved 25, 250 model 3s in Dec, but a mere 6500 in January. That's a 75% decline.

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2 hours ago, balthazar said:

There was a HUGE pull-ahead in December Model 3 sales, undoubtedly due to the lowering of the tax credit. Tesla moved 25, 250 model 3s in Dec, but a mere 6500 in January. That's a 75% decline.

Ouch....

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On 2/8/2019 at 7:28 PM, regfootball said:

Brings up a yuge question regarding EV lovers' sanity, right?

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1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Brings up a yuge question regarding EV lovers' sanity, right?

310 miles for a Model 3.

You start your day at 310, because you plugged it in the night before.

310 miles minus the 40% drop gives you?

Hell, Ill go with 220 miles starting your day because you left work at 5:00. Called your wife saying that your boss needs you to stay because you need to file files that havent been filed for 5 years. Went to happy hour instead, saw a buxom blonde. You bought her a wine spritzer. From a wine spritzer it became a Long Island Iced Tea. From there it became mutual belly shots and then...well, you went home at 3:00 in the morning and your wife was none the wiser. You plugged it your Model 3,  but 7:00 AM came fast (and so did you coincidentally) and your Model 3 only has got 220 mile range. We will reduce that range by not the 40% they say, but by a whopping 50%. So now you got 110 miles top go to your work that is 40 miles , 50....hell 60 miles away. You go to work every phoquing day 60 miles away from where you live. 60 motherphoquing miles.   SHYTE!  60 goddamned miles.  You got enough to get there, but how do you get back home?

You could ask that buxom blonde from the night before to pick you up and drive you back home. You could entice her by asking her for a quickie in the backseat of her soccer mom SUV that is gasoline powered...

Anyway...back to the 60 mile problem...because now you only have a 50 mile range and you got to travel 60 miles...

1. Maybe your employer has installed charger stations?

2. What the phoque are you complaining about the 40-50% ?  You are travelling 60 miles to work everyday.

I think you got a bigger problem than 40% range loss because of cold weather in your EV,  find yourself travelling and losing time doing it every phoquing day...

If that scenario was real...120 miles to go to work every day will bankrupt you in gasoline if you had a joe schmo job and you drove even a V6 automobile let alone a V8. Also, the wear and tear on that V6.  4 cylinder you say? WEAR AND TEAR I SAY.

So...as you see, even in extreme scenarios, 40% is a lot of range loss. But man!!!

YOU ALWAYS START THE PHOQUING DAY WITH A "FULL TANK OF GAS" SINCE YOU COULD AND MOSTLY LIKELY YOU DO PLUG IN YOUR CAR EVERYDAY AFTER COMING HOME...

ON A 1st GENERATION LEAF THAT HAD 30 MILE RANGE, YOU MAY HAVE A BIIIIIG PROBLEM, YES! 

BUT ON ANY TESLA, CHEVROLET BOLT, EVEN THIS GENERATION NISSAN LEAF, AN AVERAGE COMMUTE FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN TO GO TO AND FROM WORK IS ABOUT 16 MILES. THERE ARE SOME THAT TRAVEL 50 MILES,YES, BUT A 40% RANGE LOSS IS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. EV HATERZ FIND THE JOY, BUT EV OWNERS JUST ADAPT AND THEY MAKE SURE THEY PLUG IN AND IN THE MORNING, A FULL TANK OF GAS AWAITS THEM...

BATTERIES ARE GETTING BETTER. BETTER INSULATED TOO...SO THIS WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME A MOOT POINT TOO!!!

https://itstillruns.com/far-americans-drive-work-average-7446397.html

 

 

Quote

 

If you drive long distances to your job each day, you are not alone. According to ABC News, the average American drives 16 miles to work each way, with a daily commute totaling nearly an hour round trip.

Significance

 

While the average commute involves 30 minutes in the car each way, many people commute less than a mile to work each day. On the other hand, this number is tempered by "extreme commuters" who must drive more than 100 miles each way to work during the week.

 

Identification

 

According to ABC News, 220 million Americans average an hour and a half each day in their cars. About 3.3 million people travel at least 50 miles to work one way, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

 

 

 

 

 

But even with my very extreme examples, those 3.3 million Americans could STILL get home with juice to spare...

Edited by oldshurst442
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29 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

POINT PROVEN!  :roflmao:

Point proven on my side.

Adapting is a very human trait. Humans ALWAYS adapt to their environment.  THAT is why humans have become the apex creature it has become. 

Hell, humans have this crazy idea of colonizing Mars and beyond. EVs with a 40% range loss because of cold is a mere nuisance in the grand scheme of things.  

Bratt Pitt said it best. (For 40% range loss at the shortest level and if you like...for the grand scheme of things...Mars colonization, moving from England to the new world, and then leaving the East to go West and getting killed by the savages and tornados we may encounter, changing from ICE to EVs,  going from Coke to diet Coke to Coke Zero back to Coke)

 

You know, my partner owns a Model S. In the 4 years he has owned it, he NEVER once complained about range loss...he has mentioned it to me, but never complained about it. And, it was NEVER an issue with him either. Keep in mind that I DO live in Montreal and not in warm Los Angeles where this may or may not be a thing...

This whole thing about cold weather range loss that just popped up everywhere the last month is probably hate propaganda from anybody that has an invested interest in oil and gasoline...

Image result for much ado about nothing shakespeare

 

I repeat. The low end Model 3 has a range of 220 miles.  The story was just entertainment value.  50% of 220 is 110. Same as my story line. Yes it had a purpose. Yes I did the 220 thing on purpose to prove a point. 

110 mile range. Each and every day when someone starts their day. In the morning. At an extreme level of trying to prove a point. 

If your employer has a charge system set-up for their employees to charge up...moot point. that would be another 110 mile range. One could stop and shop and joy ride. Even if the commute to work IS 60 miles. Like 3.3 million Americans do everyday. 

The average commute is 16 miles.   Common man!   Theoretically, one could charge his 220 mile range, after losses 110 mile range EV after the 2nd day with out any panic... Even if the battery loss is compounded... 110 becomes 60, which becomes 30.  

This is getting a little tiring, talking about non-existent range anxiety. This is not an issue anymore. 

Move on from it! 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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mYnx19QN_400x400.jpg

Whoa whoa WHOA there, skeeterbite!  Settle down a bit!  Nobody wants an uncertain future.  Stick with ICE and you'll be juuuuuust fine.

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2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

mYnx19QN_400x400.jpg

Whoa whoa WHOA there, skeeterbite!  Settle down a bit!  Nobody wants an uncertain future.  Stick with ICE and you'll be juuuuuust fine.

Ill take this far.

Uncertain future?

Its safe to say that you are not a Native American. Even if you were, your ancestors did have to travel to get to North America anyway. 

But, I think that your ancestors came from Merry Ole England.  They had to travel the Atlantic Ocean back when they thought the world was flat. It was proven otherwise by some chap named Christopher Columbo. 

Be as it may, there must have been some folk that doubted that and disputed that fact vehemently.  Yet, for whatever reason, your ancestors decided to leave Merry Ole England, Or Ireland, or Scotland, because their future on that God forsaken island was...uncertain...to come to a new place to start fresh and take a chance on a perhaps better uncertain future. 

In America, like I said, their future was also uncertain. If I know my American History (which New France history coincides with American History...and I do live in Quebec and we actually do learn about American History do to the fact that the French fought Les Anglais...) and between the French and their Native American Indigenous peoples alliance versus YOUR British roots and their Native American Indigenous peoples alliances...well, all of our futures were uncertain.  

Famine, wars, cold winters...

And if all that is still not enough, when the 13 colonies were established and New France was kept at bay, at the Natives tamed, that STILL was not enough, your ancestors decided to complicate their future slightly more and create more uncertainty by deciding to declare independence from Merry Ole England.

And STILL that wasnt enough as some of your countrymen decided to trot further west into the wild where the Natives seemed to be more savage and the weather even more savage-ier.  Uncertain future you say?  To put it mildly...YES!!!

And then as a young nation, you went all out on a new technology called the railway train...

You know Blu, its fun talking to you...but if you havent noticed...if YOUR ancestors were truly afraid of an uncertain future, like you seem to be, then your ancestors would have never left that rainy, foggy island. 

If your ancestors were truly afraid to embrace new technologies, they would have never learned about what MY ancestors brought to the table...

Related image

 

and perfect it and utilize it to colonize half the planet with it and rule the world with it later on, and then start a new nation with it and then police the whole world with it...

Image result for American aircraft carrier

all with uncertain futures attached  it...to the history of...well human kind really... 

Here is another angle...

Related image

Man always dreamed about flying...and ALWAYS failed trying.

A couple of thousand of years later after this story was told...

Image result for wright brothers first flight

And the flight of that bird...well, it was shorter than the length of a Boeing 747.

Even though flight failed a million times before 1903 and thousands of times after 1903...

Related image

Because after that disaster, the future of flight was...uncertain...

We still kept at it...and if we stopped and just held unto the same ole same ole safety zones...well...

Image result for Luna landing

That would have never have happened...

Phoque man...let it go, bro!!!

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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Took my Family out for lunch and our daughters best friend and her husband who is a police officer and drives a 4x4 F350 Dually came to lunch. He is a hard core Diesel driver, but has had the options of being able to drive their single Tesla X police CUV around the rich city he works for and has come to the decision that for most people EVs make sense especially with a full tank every day at the start and so little maintenance compared to ICE auto's.

He then said for himself, until they have a decent 4x4 as he lives out in the woods and drives 50 miles every day, 100 round trip he would not give up his truck.

I then showed him the Atlis Pickup with 5.5, 6.5 or 8 foot bed option.

See the source image

He read the web page from the company and said when it gets into production, he would consider it as the 400 mile battery pack even with reduced range in the cold would work for him.

This was a die hard Diesel fan who would be willing to consider it. He has to drive 18 miles to get to the closest gas station, so being able to plug in at his house every night would be no big deal to have a full tank of go juice in the morning.

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4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Took my Family out for lunch and our daughters best friend and her husband who is a police officer and drives a 4x4 F350 Dually came to lunch. He is a hard core Diesel driver, but has had the options of being able to drive their single Tesla X police CUV around the rich city he works for and has come to the decision that for most people EVs make sense especially with a full tank every day at the start and so little maintenance compared to ICE auto's.

He then said for himself, until they have a decent 4x4 as he lives out in the woods and drives 50 miles every day, 100 round trip he would not give up his truck.

I then showed him the Atlis Pickup with 5.5, 6.5 or 8 foot bed option.

See the source image

He read the web page from the company and said when it gets into production, he would consider it as the 400 mile battery pack even with reduced range in the cold would work for him.

This was a die hard Diesel fan who would be willing to consider it. He has to drive 18 miles to get to the closest gas station, so being able to plug in at his house every night would be no big deal to have a full tank of go juice in the morning.

Every day when I walk between buildings and cross streets at the university I work at I see eV's passing me on the road.  I do not consider either you or your debate  opponent, the esteem-able Mr "Blu reliable witnesses on electric cars. You say everything electric very short term, he says never...I see it as a long term thing.

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It's absolutely a very long term thing. Rivian starts at $70K (website says "$61,500 after federal tax credit" but that's highly disingenuous)- that's a huge pill to swallow. Everybody can consider everything, but guess what one of the 3 legs of the Consideration Stool is? Cost.
A Lambo Hurricane would work for me as a local errand / estimate vehicle, but guess what.

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37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It's absolutely a very long term thing. Rivian starts at $70K (website says "$61,500 after federal tax credit" but that's highly disingenuous)- that's a huge pill to swallow. Everybody can consider everything, but guess what one of the 3 legs of the Consideration Stool is? Cost.
A Lambo Hurricane would work for me as a local errand / estimate vehicle, but guess what.

Personally I see you as more of a 50's rust and patina kind of a guy but you could rock the Lambo look....

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

It's absolutely a very long term thing. Rivian starts at $70K (website says "$61,500 after federal tax credit" but that's highly disingenuous)- that's a huge pill to swallow. Everybody can consider everything, but guess what one of the 3 legs of the Consideration Stool is? Cost.
A Lambo Hurricane would work for me as a local errand / estimate vehicle, but guess what.

I agree with you, yet the point I am making is a die hard diesel fan can see the value of of a truck that meets his needs in switching to an EV. Considering he just replaced his 10yr old 1ton Ram pickup with the CPO Ford F350. I do not expect him to change until 10 years from now and who knows where we will be now that Ford and GM have committed to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup. In 10 years we could also have 3/4 and 1 ton EV pickups.

The thing is that the future has allot of exciting change so as we all enjoy our ICE auto's now, there will be alternative considerations down the road that just might entice you to change power train types.

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5 hours ago, dfelt said:

GM have committed to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup. In 10 years we could also have 3/4 and 1 ton EV pickups.

Link please, on GM being "committed" to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup.

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33 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Link please, on GM being "committed" to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup.

This article from last November says no plans..

https://electrek.co/2018/11/12/electric-pickup-truck-gm/

But this one implies they may build something to compete w/ the Tesla pickup

https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/gm-electric-tesla-pickup-truck/

Lead, follow, or get out of the way, right? 

Edited by Robert Hall
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26 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Lead, follow, or get out of the way, right?

They lead.  They make the best trucks.  Why waste money on a money-losing proposition?  Don't make no sense.

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The Tesla haters that can only crap on them for range are just afraid or jealous that Tesla makes a better car than many of the gas options.  Every car has some sort of compromise, I don't hear people saying the Corvette or 911 sucks due to not enough trunk space or back seat room.  Or F150 owners complaining that it gets 17 mpg, or people bashing the Prius because it is slow.  All these vehicles have a flaw.

The Model 3 has range limitation yes, it has a plain interior, but it also has positive attributes too, like technology and performance.  You have to compare what you get in a Model 3 vs an ATS, Q60, C-class or other similar priced car.

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There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

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13 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

*yawn*

Edited by oldshurst442
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4 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

If Poor Quality was the only reason, then why are the Germans having to change their plans for their EVs after reverse engineering the Tesla 3.

https://insideevs.com/porsche-audi-tesla-model-3-teardown/

The story above is only one of a couple where all the German brands have bought a Tesla 3 and while the interiors and fit n finish leave something to be desired, their power train and tech surpasses what the Germans can do or have planned to do.

More Great Reading as to why the Germans are scared.

https://www.wiwo.de/technologie/mobilitaet/elektroauto-zerlegt-tesla-model-3-kann-gewinn-abwerfen/22625806.html

https://www.quattrodaily.com/audi-and-porsche-worried-for-ppe-platform-after-tear-down-of-tesla-model-3/

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/25/tesla-an-uncomfortable-wake-up-call-for-germany-all-hands-on-deck/

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Tesla has an ecosystem approach. That’s something all the others lagged behind.

Honestly, if Tesla can just get to their damn $40,000 car...not even $35,000 they’ll have made it.

 

I think they can reasonably get to 500k cars by 2021. Holy smokes.... were I to say this, maybe 2 years ago....pls I would have loved to be lynched by a mob, even I would have believed I deserved it by saying that!

 

 

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I watched the Autoline After Hours when Sandy Munro was a guest and he went over the tear down of the Model 3.  Yes the build quality as far as panel gaps and things is not up to par for what it should be, but he said the electronics in the Tesla are light years ahead of what any other car has.  He said how no other automaker is even close on the electronics/software/hardware/batteries, so that has to count for something.

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