TAKE THAT KRAUTS: The 2019 Cadillac CTS-V Will Be One of the All-Time Greats

[dfelt 3,780 5 Vehicles]

14 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Vibe was just a Toyota Matrix...

I always thought the Matrix was just a rebadged, nose job Vibe. My understanding is GM did most of the lifting on the project.

[Robert Hall 3,919 4 Vehicles]

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I always thought the Matrix was just a rebadged, nose job Vibe. My understanding is GM did most of the lifting on the project.

Well, it was on a Corolla platform, so which way rebadging went doesn't matter. Can't imagine there was much 'heavy lifting' for such a routine generic appliance....  I think it was more than the nose, most of the body panels were different between the Vibe and Matrix.  Toyota also had a version in Japan w/ the Vibe body, the Voltz.  (Assembled at NUMMI in CA and exported to Japan).  Japan also had the WiLL VS which was related.

Edited 13 hours ago by Robert Hall

[dfelt 3,780 5 Vehicles]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Well, it was on a Corolla platform, so which way rebadging went doesn't matter. Can't imagine there was much 'heavy lifting' for such a routine generic appliance.   I think it was more than the nose, most of the body panels were different.  Toyota had a version in Japan w/ the Vibe body, BTW. 

Interesting, thanks for the info.

As you said back on subject, I think one of the biggest mistakes of not just GM but any auto company is when they show off a concept that is a performance version then only release an entry level to premium version and then say a performance will come in a year or two.

Marketing is where GM and Ford has FAILED. Managing expectations is very important and they can be successful in showing off a premium concept and delivering said concept that has people excited. Then surprise a year or two later deliver a performance which we all know will sell in limited numbers.

Honestly if we look at the Success of the CTS, they showed off the CTS and then built it, then surprised everyone with a CTS-V. This is and has been the proper way to do it. Not like the Vibe Turbo Performance concept and then only deliver a mundane product with nothing special at launch.

Cadillac needs to use the same approach on marketing the CTS and then CTS-V with the WHOLE Cadillac family and let it Roar!

[Cmicasa the Great 1,229]

9 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Hummer went because of sky-high gas prices driving Hummer into the ground.  Saab gave GM absolutely NOTHING.  Once Pontiac had no real reason for existence (G8 aside), that brand could disappear.  Same reason Oldsmobile was killed: falling sales and no real effort to fix it all AND too few resources to save any of them, let alone all of them.

 

Skyhigh gas prices? Naaaah. The people who actually bought Hummers cared very little about gas prices I promise U. By the way the same gas argument that one could make about the H2 one could have made to a degree about the Suburban, or at the time the FJ Cruiser in relation to the H3. No Hummer was killed as an appeasement to the superficial Greenies of the world who loved to paint the domestics as gas guzzlers yet who gave a pass to Toyota and Nissan.. just because of the Prius. If one looked at the numbers back then.. GM and Ford were no less fuel efficient than the Japanese brands overall. Hummer was the symbol tho.. but GM could have simple put diesels in (they had a 2.8L V6 Diesel and a 4.5L Diesel that would have done nicely) and been exempt from EPA testing, or dropped the H2 only for a generation, skipping GMT900, as the H2 was on the GMT800 platform, even tho the GMT900s had been out for 3 years for before Hummer died, and brought it back with K2xx (current). Hell they could have even given it the two mode hybrid tranny they spent billions on and now sits on a shelf collecting dust. Then lived on under GMC as a trim utilizing the H3, H3T, and Hx Concept completely trouncing Jeep.. Because if U remember the H3, in terms of off-road prowess put the Wrangler and LR Discovery on the truck and sent them home in almost every comparison I ever saw. Even that bitch ass Jeremy Clarkson had to admit it was the winner. Here's one example

 

http://www.trucktrend.com/truck-reviews/163-0810-off-road-suv-comparison/

 

Love this damn truck.. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Cmicasa the Great

[Robert Hall 3,919 4 Vehicles]

I do think changing the name from CTS to 'CT5' is not a good idea...CTS seems like it has decent brand recognition/equity after 15+ years.   

Edited 13 hours ago by Robert Hall

[Cmicasa the Great 1,229]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I do think changing the name from CTS to 'CT5' is not a good idea...CTS seems like it has decent brand recognition/equity after 15 years.

Agreed. This is a remnant of JDN trying to rationalize the naming scheme. His intentions were just.. but I think the reason why the CTS is becoming the CT5 is because the "5" looks a lot like the "S" as crazy as that sounds. To be honest the Cadillac naming scheme has been weird for a while. It is further marred by the fact that the Escalade is a named vehicle. If they announced that they were going back to names I wouldn't have an big issue, but would be still confused as to why. The CT is to stand for "Cadillac TOURING". Originally the names were set as:

CTS= Catera Touring Sedan

STS= Seville Touring Sedan

DTS= Deville Touring Sedan

XLR= eXtreme Luxury Roadster

SRX= (I believe ) Seville Crossover

Escalade

It would have made sense too had they not come out with the CTS Coupe in Gen 2 and called it CTS Coupe instead of the obvious "CTC." When the replacement for the DTS and supposed flagship for the brand was announced it was to be called XLS then DT7, which is where I bet JDN pulled the numbers game from. Anyway.. it could work.. if the just fukking stick to it. They don't even have to use even or odd numbers anymore to denote sedan or coupe. Hell Audi now has a A5 (Sportback) sedan. BMW has a 6Series (Grand Touring) Sedan. Its gotten confusing as hell LOL

[riviera74 619]

16 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Skyhigh gas prices? Naaaah. The people who actually bought Hummers cared very little about gas prices I promise U. By the way the same gas argument that one could make about the H2 one could have made to a degree about the Suburban, or at the time the FJ Cruiser in relation to the H3. No Hummer was killed as an appeasement to the superficial Greenies of the world who loved to paint the domestics as gas guzzlers yet who gave a pass to Toyota and Nissan.. just because of the Prius. If one looked at the numbers back then.. GM and Ford were no less fuel efficient than the Japanese brands overall. Hummer was the symbol tho.. but GM could have simple put diesels in (they had a 2.8L V6 Diesel and a 4.5L Diesel that would have done nicely) and been exempt from EPA testing, or dropped the H2 only for a generation, skipping GMT900, as the H2 was on the GMT800 platform, even tho the GMT900s had been out for 3 years for before Hummer died, and brought it back with K2xx (current). Hell they could have even given it the two mode hybrid tranny they spent billions on and now sits on a shelf collecting dust. Then lived on under GMC as a trim utilizing the H3, H3T, and Hx Concept completely trouncing Jeep.. Because if U remember the H3, in terms of off-road prowess put the Wrangler and LR Discovery on the truck and sent them home in almost every comparison I ever saw. Even that bitch ass Jeremy Clarkson had to admit it was the winner. Here's one example

 

http://www.trucktrend.com/truck-reviews/163-0810-off-road-suv-comparison/

 

Love this damn truck.. 

Then maybe GMC should build a challenger to the Jeep Wrangler et. al.

[Robert Hall 3,919 4 Vehicles]

At least they haven't renamed the Escalade to XT8  or something like that.  Escalade has a lot of brand equity, it would be madness to change that.   I'd like to see the return of traditional names for the sedans, but I don't see that happening anytime soon... 

2 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Then maybe GMC should build a challenger to the Jeep Wrangler et. al.

Would be nice...but GM is so wedded to generic FWD crossovers, I don't see it...unless they could build something off the Colorado/Canyon platform. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Robert Hall

[Cmicasa the Great 1,229]

11 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

At least they haven't renamed the Escalade to XT8  or something like that.  Escalade has a lot of brand equity, it would be madness to change that.   I'd like to see the return of traditional names for the sedans, but I don't see that happening anytime soon... 

Would be nice...but GM is so wedded to generic FWD crossovers, I don't see it...unless they could build something off the Colorado/Canyon platform. 

Well that's exactly what the H3 was. And if they need proof that it would sell.. the Colorado Bison is currently on back-order its proving to be so popular

[Robert Hall 3,919 4 Vehicles]

14 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Well that's exactly what the H3 was. And if they need proof that it would sell.. the Colorado Bison is currently on back-order its proving to be so popular

It's funny how much the Gladiator resembles the H3T in design and concept. 

[A Horse With No Name 3,120]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It's funny how much the Gladiator resembles the H3T in design and concept. 

Agreed.

 

[Cmicasa the Great 1,229]

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It's funny how much the Gladiator resembles the H3T in design and concept. 

Its as if Jeep bought a few H3ts.. and copied them. That's it. End of story LOL

[ykX 443]

I think these were a little before H3T

Edited 11 hours ago by ykX

[Robert Hall 3,919 4 Vehicles]

21 minutes ago, ykX said:

I think these were a little before H3T

Yes, but the Gladiator is closer to the H3T formula of a 4dr cab.  Though the Gladiator has the cool removable roof.   Anyway, Hummer is dead and buried so it's a moot point.    I like the new Gladiator. 

[A Horse With No Name 3,120]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Yes, but the Gladiator is closer to the H3T formula of a 4dr cab.  Though the Gladiator has the cool removable roof.   Anyway, Hummer is dead and buried so it's a moot point.    I like the new Gladiator. 

Now if they would just put the diesel from the RAM 1500 in that it would be a sure fire winner.

[Robert Hall 3,919 4 Vehicles]

14 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Now if they would just put the diesel from the RAM 1500 in that it would be a sure fire winner.

I could see that doing well. I like the idea of the V6/manual combination.   If I ever wanted a pickup down the road, I'd consider a used Gladiator. 

[A Horse With No Name 3,120]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I could see that doing well. I like the idea of the V6/manual combination.   If I ever wanted a pickup down the road, I'd consider a used Gladiator. 

You and me both...

[dfelt 3,780 5 Vehicles]

4 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I could see that doing well. I like the idea of the V6/manual combination.   If I ever wanted a pickup down the road, I'd consider a used Gladiator. 

 

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

You and me both...

Add me in there as I like the looks of the Gladiator, course a Rivian or Atlis or GM built EV Pickup would win me over the Gladiator.