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Drew Dowdell

Buick News: Buick Cascada Dead After 2019

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a more plausible option down the road would be Cadillac + GMC retail stores.  Rather than just folding Buick.  I think if Buick can ever equip their vehicles as truly a half step up over Chevy, it's fine as a niche brand co-existing to help justify a GMC trucks retail outlet.  GMC and Chevy can never universally share a showroom because it would ding both their truck lines.

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15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The imports didn’t really hit the market big until the 70s, mainly due to gas crisis.  Cadillac sold 350,000 cars in 1978 and 150,000 last year. 

Japanese imports grew notably with the gas crisis, but it took the germans a few decades longer because they weren't competitive for so long.
And Cadillac sold 395,000 vehicles last year.

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2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

All of the costs associated with advertising and maintaining a brand. Separate badging, different designs.  Doing what I propose gets cheaper when they don't have to paint the airwaves with "That's not a Buick!" commercials just to convince people that Buicks aren't for old people. 

GMC doesn't have that kind of baggage.  I would be shocked if Barra isn't considering closing Buick already. 

I would think she would have to be.

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Watching what GM is doing now, it starts to make sense that Buick simply becomes a china brand and caddy simply just goes away. In a future where electric cars and scooters become your main focal point- there’s no point in keeping the shiny things around......

 

I keep preaching that the car is dead....and at some point-the SUV as well. Trucks live on due to work demands. But between the cost and the lack of interest in vehicles in general- Uber, electric and public transportation is your future.........

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30 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Japanese imports grew notably with the gas crisis, but it took the germans a few decades longer because they weren't competitive for so long.
And Cadillac sold 395,000 vehicles last year.

Worldwide they sold that.  Mercedes sold 2,310,185.  They got some catching up to do.

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1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide they sold that.  Mercedes sold 2,310,185.  They got some catching up to do.

Cadillac should get into the Taxi market? If not, why not?

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33 minutes ago, regfootball said:

a more plausible option down the road would be Cadillac + GMC retail stores.  Rather than just folding Buick.  I think if Buick can ever equip their vehicles as truly a half step up over Chevy, it's fine as a niche brand co-existing to help justify a GMC trucks retail outlet.  GMC and Chevy can never universally share a showroom because it would ding both their truck lines.

In adding to my “dark: comment above, I would love to see a few “niche” models for Caddy, Buick, and maybe even Pontiac. Each model/models could offer the comsumer something different, whether it be sporty or even stately.

But the GM/caddy idea is good....

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14 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Watching what GM is doing now, it starts to make sense that Buick simply becomes a china brand and caddy simply just goes away. In a future where electric cars and scooters become your main focal point- there’s no point in keeping the shiny things around......

 

I keep preaching that the car is dead....and at some point-the SUV as well. Trucks live on due to work demands. But between the cost and the lack of interest in vehicles in general- Uber, electric and public transportation is your future.........

Cadillac is dying now too?!?!  

I actually think in a world of self driving pods and mass transit, a car becomes a luxury item.  Thus Cadillac is the brand that makes the most sense if mainstream car ownership disappears.

Edited by smk4565

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1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac is dying now too?!?!  

I actually think in a world of self driving pods and mass transit, a car becomes a luxury item.  Thus Cadillac is the brand that makes the most sense if mainstream cars disappear.

Could make sense if folks didn’t want to spend a grand or more on a phone-that is today’s “luxury”.....

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3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac should get into the Taxi market? If not, why not?

They couldn’t build a more reliable or more fuel efficient taxi than Mercedes.  The E-class is the best mid size sedan in the world, regardless of intended use.

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1 minute ago, daves87rs said:

Could make sense if folks didn’t want to spend a grand or more on a phone-that is today’s “luxury”.....

When the autonomous pods arrive that get you from point A to point B while you can sleep or play on your $1,000 phone for a price of a $300 a month subscription then the masses won’t buy cars.

 The majority of people buy a car to get from point A to point B (school, work, grocery store, etc). They don’t want to pay $400 for a payment, $200 in gas, $100 in maintenance, $100 in insurance, yadda yadda yadda.  Most will take the autonomous pod.  The enthusiast and the wealthy that have too much disposable income will still buy a car, which is where Cadillac makes sense. 

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1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

When the autonomous pods arrive that get you from point A to point B while you can sleep or play on your $1,000 phone for a price of a $300 a month subscription then the masses won’t buy cars.

 The majority of people buy a car to get from point A to point B (school, work, grocery store, etc). They don’t want to pay $400 for a payment, $200 in gas, $100 in maintenance, $100 in insurance, yadda yadda yadda.  Most will take the autonomous pod.  The enthusiast and the wealthy that have too much disposable income will still buy a car, which is where Cadillac makes sense. 

Depends on what profit level it will be- if GM makes more money on scooters, Wall Street may not take kindly to them wasting money on niche products.......

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28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide they sold that.  Mercedes sold 2,310,185.  They got some catching up to do.

Cadillac is not a mainstream, full-line/taxi/fleet/cargo van brand. They're not trying to "catch up".

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49 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

...between the cost and the lack of interest in vehicles in general- Uber, electric and public transportation is your future.

Not my future. Feel pretty safe in saying not the majority of any of our futures, either.
Just price checked a ride from an old address into town to the shopping area- 26 miles round trip, $56-70 dollars (plus tip) via Uber. My truck costs me on average $7/day for insurance & fuel. Add ownership cost WRT depreciation, and it's $7.11. I'm saving money hand-over-fist owning my own vehicle.

Edited by balthazar
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27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Not my future. Feel pretty safe in saying not the majority of any of our futures, either.
Just price checked a ride from an old address into town to the shopping area- 26 miles round trip, $56-70 dollars (plus tip) via Uber. My truck costs me on average $7/day for insurance & fuel. Add ownership cost WRT depreciation, and it's $7.11. I'm saving money hand-over-fist owning my own vehicle.

Oh trust me, I believe you. 🙂 And I agree! But not everybody is in the same boat as you and I, or even care about cars like us. That is also saying if they are using common sense too.... 😮 

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Owning a car makes more sense now.  But one day when cars and Uber can function with no driver it will be cheaper to have a robot pod shuttle you around.

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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They couldn’t build a more reliable or more fuel efficient taxi than Mercedes.  The E-class is the best mid size sedan in the world, regardless of intended use.

The E class is indeed fantastic.

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

I don't think I have 75 years left in me to see that happen.

Me niether.

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide they sold that.  Mercedes sold 2,310,185.  They got some catching up to do.

And how many did GM sell?  Mercedes as a whole is not analogous to just a single GM brand. 

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57 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And how many did GM sell?  Mercedes as a whole is not analogous to just a single GM brand. 

They are to Cadillac if you take away Vans and the pick up.  Mercedes isn’t selling Chevy priced product which is the vast majority of GM sales.  They wisely set up their luxury brand to have a car for all needs, while GM set up their luxury brand for people that want mid size sedans and midsize crossovers.   Mercedes owners have no reason to look at another brand because Mercedes has a car for every need.  Cadillac owners if they want a convertible or coupe after this year or a performance SUV or sports car, etc have to go look at another brand.  Then if they find that brand better, when they neee a new sedan they probably aren’t going back to Cadillac.

This is also why most niche brands don’t make it l, outside of novelty stuff like Ferrari  or Lamborghini.

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2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are to Cadillac if you take away Vans and the pick up.  Mercedes isn’t selling Chevy priced product which is the vast majority of GM sales.  They wisely set up their luxury brand to have a car for all needs, while GM set up their luxury brand for people that want mid size sedans and midsize crossovers.   Mercedes owners have no reason to look at another brand because Mercedes has a car for every need.  Cadillac owners if they want a convertible or coupe after this year or a performance SUV or sports car, etc have to go look at another brand.  Then if they find that brand better, when they neee a new sedan they probably aren’t going back to Cadillac.

This is also why most niche brands don’t make it l, outside of novelty stuff like Ferrari  or Lamborghini.

Mercedes sells the A-Class, B-Class, and SMART.  They certainly do play in "Chevy" markets even if they're priced outrageously for the content. And don't try to tell me the A-Class is "worth it" either. 

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9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They wisely set up their luxury brand to have a car for all needs

:facepalm:

You know that "entry level" luxury is an oxymoron, right?

You know that is not a thing, right? Like...even if the word "luxury" is in the phrase "entry level luxury", you know that is not real luxury, right?  What Mercedes sells is zircon to folk. So a better way of putting that is Mercedes Benz has fooled millions into buying zircon.

I hope you also know and understand that Chevy also sells a ton of "entry level" price tagged vehicles.  Or as you put it...luxury priced...

Because if you tally up all the HD Silverados and Tahoes and Suburbans, Chevy actually  sells MORE of those 3 than what all of Mercedes sells...

I wouldnt be tooting that too loudly, buddy.  That Mercedes sells lots and lots of C Class and A class cars and YOU try pass  those as 1%er vehicles... 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And how many did GM sell?  Mercedes as a whole is not analogous to just a single GM brand. 

The REAL question is how many 60 000 dollar priced vehicles (and over..but not less than 60 000)does Mercedes Benz really sell.  (Not city buses and Freightliner 18 wheelers) But honest to goodness 60 000 dollar REAL luxury cars and SUVs.

Because we DO know that Cadillac is at the 400 000 unit level.  OK...minus a few ATS cars...Cadillac at 350 000.

Not that real luxury cars should be measured by how many units sold...but since our resident M-B fan likes to hear his own voice on this, Im curious...

 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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14 hours ago, daves87rs said:

But not everybody is in the same boat as you and I, or even care about cars like us. That is also saying if they are using common sense too.... 😮 

I will assume they care about money though.
In my example above, I could make the same trip 6 or more times a day for the same initial price of $7, whereas Uber would cost over $400.  

It's the same thing WRT almost all EVs- do I care about 'saving' $150/mn in fuel costs when I have to spend $30,000 more to do so? That's 200 months, or 17 years to break even. I've been Jonesing to get into a new truck for a year now, and I've got 13 years behind it's wheel this summer.

Edited by balthazar
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