Jump to content
Drew Dowdell

Toyota News: Next Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ in Development

Recommended Posts

With the introduction of the Toyota Supra, rumors have been swirling that the 86/BRZ twins might not be replaced when their production lives were up.  Autocar UK has a quote from Toyota's European Marketing Chief saying "[the GT86] has been a successful halo product for us" and added that "...the Supra is not to replace that car."

The 86/FR-S/BRZ was released in 2011 as a co-development between Toyota and Subaru.  It uses Subaru's boxer engine and transmission.  It is highly likely that the next generation model would continue to use the signature engine. The new car would continue sit below the Supra in the Toyota lineup. Akio Toyoda has stated interest in building a full lineup of sports cars.

Whatever comes from the next generation 86, we're just glad that SUVs haven't killed yet another sports car.


View full article

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Great they doing a new one.  We need an affordable sports car among the sea of boring SUVs.

I hope they make it substantially better while keeping relatively low price.

Edited by ykX
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anything would be better than the current one. Mor power please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like my neighbor's teenage son just got a used BRZ/86/FRS...it's red, has no front bumper and goes 'brawwwpp'. 

  • Haha 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont all those 4 cylinder "street rods" all go 'brawwwpp'? 

There was a young adult go through my drive-through with a current gen VW Golf that also went brawwwpp. I dont think it was a GTI...didnt look it, but sure as hell tried to sound like it had more bark then it actually had...

I cant hate them anymore for that!

Actually, quite the opposite as that means they are enthusiasts of the motor vehicle....gotta respect 'em as these are the kids that will grow up and DEMAND that we have enthusiast type self-driving pods...

And Im happy that Toyota and Subaru are investing in another generation...as maybe there is a slight sliver of hope that not all sheeple are so much into their smart phones and CUVs that these types of cars COULD still exist! 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yah, and the guy across the street's '18 Mustang sounds like that also...(2.3 Ecoboost version).   There are several fun cars on my street... one guy has a silver S2000,  there is a dark red 1st gen Miata in great shape, a black Grand National I've never seen out of the garage, and a red '04-06 GTO around the corner. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pass on all those Brawwwwppppp V8 Fart Can upgrades on 4 bangers. Give me some real tuned V8 power. :P 

After all, if your gonna make some noise, then have the performance to back it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Coming soon to a Toyota dealer near you......with 210 hp and 156 lb-ft.

For $32,000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I’ll take a hellcat for power, and and 86 for a joyride....

#loveallfuncars

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 86/BRZ sounds like it would be a really fun backroad car for Ohio's twisty backroads.   Though I'd probably enjoy a Miata more w/ the top down.  But would have to deal w/ 60-90 min of freeway to get to my favorite back roads. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The 86/BRZ sounds like it would be a really fun backroad car for Ohio's twisty backroads.   Though I'd probably enjoy a Miata more w/ the top down.  But would have to deal w/ 60-90 min of freeway to get to my favorite back roads. 

That's exactly the type of car they are... a Miata competitor but with a hardtop and slightly more room in the cabin. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/23/2019 at 4:37 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

To harp on power in these cars is to completely miss the point.  These are handling and agility cars.  They are extremely satisfying drives without having to break the speed laws to get satisfaction. 

 

Counterpoint- 

No, it's NOT.

 

People seem to keep implying that there is only A) light, low-power, handling focused and B) big, heavy, speed-focused. An GT86 or a Hellcat. A Miata or a 488 GTB.

What everyone is ignoring is that is a huge multitude of ground between those two bookends. These cars' engines are underpowered, tragically slow, unexciting, aurally mediocre, and just generally lackluster. They have no low-end, they don't really rev out, they aren't linear, they don't have character, and they don't inspire you to wring them out. You simply have to drive the balls off them to get them to do anything. They are not fun at virtually anything other than backroad carving, and they leave some to be desired even at that.

That's putting aside the fact this car been on the market for what is rapidly approaching a decade, with 0 major changes. It has not evolved to keep pace with the market and industry. It was in development for too long, and arrived on the scene already with unimpressive numbers and performance. This is seeming to be a consistent trend with Toyota performance products. This car needed a turbo model with 270hp 5 yrs ago, or at the very least, a Cosworth-tuned N/A variant w/ 230hp and an exciting powerband.

It is a massively underwhelming product that is stale and long overdue for a major upgrade. Point blank.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@Frisky Dingo And yet at autocross events Miata and GT86/BRZ seem to be in the majority as best suited where good handling is concerned.  It seems the spread in the best times of capable drivers at autocross is between Porsche/Corvette and Miata/ FRS/BRZ.  

Edited by ykX
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, ykX said:

@Frisky Dingo And yet at autocross events Miata and GT86/BRZ seem to be in the majority as best suited where good handling is concerned.  It seems the spread in the best times of capable drivers at autocross is between Porsche/Corvette and Miata/ GT85/BRZ.  

I don't doubt that. But we don't drive auto-x courses on a daily basis.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I don't doubt that. But we don't drive auto-x courses on a daily basis.

My point is that it is a pretty good indication of these cars' handling capability.  What other cars in that price range can do as good?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have to believe the 4-banger Camaro with that Alpha chassis would do pretty damn well along with whooping it in a straight line. 

For $30,500 you can step the 2.0T up to the 1LE package and it would absolutely eat the BRZ's breakfast, lunch, and dinner. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, it would have a ways to go to beat this for "one-with-the-road joyriding," even if the MX-5 did not meet the hp of the 86/BRZ. The 2019 MX-5 rates 181hp, 151 torque, and get 35mpg, and, when compared to the existing BRZ, weighs 300-400lbs less. Plus, it will likely start at a couple of thousand dollars less.  https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/mx-5-miata

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is where an electric motor assist would make sense I think. Not a pure hybrid with 30 to 50 miles of pure electric range, but to take a page out of F1 racing where an electric motor using a super-capacitor to give a jolt of power when needed to goose the gander.

A well defined driving auto like the Miata or BRZ would benefit by a few second boost of power I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They would not benefit form the additional hundreds of pounds of weight in batteries and motor(s). 

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dfelt said:

This is where an electric motor assist would make sense I think. Not a pure hybrid with 30 to 50 miles of pure electric range, but to take a page out of F1 racing where an electric motor using a super-capacitor to give a jolt of power when needed to goose the gander.

A well defined driving auto like the Miata or BRZ would benefit by a few second boost of power I think.

 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They would not benefit form the additional hundreds of pounds of weight in batteries and motor(s). 

Tesla already did that a decade ago.  The Tesla Roadster was Lotus Elise based (fantastic handling) and crazy fast (they could walk away from an Audi R8 like it was standing still). 

The question was the price, not the handling, weight, or speed. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

Tesla already did that a decade ago.  The Tesla Roadster was Lotus Elise based (fantastic handling) and crazy fast (they could walk away from an Audi R8 like it was standing still). 

The question was the price, not the handling, weight, or speed. 

Fantastic numbers-wise or fantastic like an MX-5 or Elise? Those are two very different things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Fantastic numbers-wise or fantastic like an MX-5 or Elise? Those are two very different things. 

I haven't driven one to be able to answer that... but take an Elise and lower the center of gravity, even with more weight, it's going to be pretty damn good. 

Car and Driver said:

Quote

With close to a half-ton of lithium-ion batteries aboard, the weight of which falls mainly on the rear axle, the Tesla’s handling recalls that of a Porsche 911. It’s lithe and darty through corners, but at the extreme limit of its grip, the steering turns slack under acceleration as the front axle goes light and loses its bite.

So 911 like... that's typically a good thing. 

That said... the Model 3 rides terribly and handles only average. So it's not like Tesla has knowledge advantage. They just did well with the roadster because it was Lotus based. 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My cousin bought a Tesla roadster when he sold his startup at age 27, then a few years later switched to a 911, which almost road like a luxury car in comparison.  Now his fun car is a McLaren.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Social Stream

  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      The Toyota Corolla for the past couple of decades has been the poster child of the vehicle that just existed. All it was built to do was go from point a to b without any sort of enthusiasm. But Toyota is wanting to change that with the redesign of Corolla, starting with the new Corolla Hatchback. Has it worked?
      The Corolla Hatchback falls in line with recent Toyota models with a shouty design. A sloping front end features massive lower grille, slim daytime running lights, and headlights that looked to be chiseled in. My SE tester lacked the 18-inch alloy wheels and a huge rear wing that is standard on the XSE. But the smaller wheels and wing provide a much cleaner look.
      The interior looks more expressive with a layered dashboard design and faux stitching around both the dash and transmission. In traditional Toyota fashion, controls for the various functions are within easy reach. An eight-inch screen mounted high on the dash is standard on Corolla Hatchbacks and comes with the latest version of Entune. As I have noted in other 2019 Toyotas, the updated Entune is noticeably quicker when switching between various functions. Also appreciated is the integration with Apple CarPlay which gives a driver another choice for infotainment. Those with Android phones will need to get their hands on the 2020 model. What I do wish is that Toyota had made the interface slightly more modern and added other colors that weren’t 50 shades of grey. 
      If you find yourself riding in the Corolla Hatchback, be sure to nab the front seat. Those sitting in the back will find space for their legs to be quite small. This isn’t helped with the narrow rear door openings. At least no one will have any complaints with the headroom as the hatchback has plenty of it. It gets even worse when you open up the rear tailgate and you’re presented with a minuscule 17.8 cubic feet of space behind the rear seats. The new Mazda3 offers more space at 20.1.
      Power comes from a new 2.0L four-cylinder producing 168 horsepower and 151 pounds-feet of torque, a noticeable increase from the outgoing Corolla iM - 137 HP and 126 lb-ft. This has moved overall performance impressions from poor to adequate as the hatchback is noticeably quicker around town. Country and highway driving are still a weak point as you’ll need to jam the gas to get any real movement from the engine. I would like to see either Toyota introduce a small turbo engine or figure out how to have torque readily available at a lower rpm. 
      My test vehicle was fitted with an optional CVT; a six-speed manual is standard. This CVT is different from others as Toyota fitted a fixed first gear ratio that it uses when leaving a stop. This reduces the rubber-band-type delay when accelerating and makes it feel more like a conventional automatic.
      EPA fuel economy figures for the Corolla Hatchback with the CVT are 32 City/42 Highway/36 Combined. My average for the week landed around 36.1 mpg.
      One area that the Corolla Hatchback’s predecessor impressed me was the handling. It felt planted and had surprising reflexes when going through a bend, but the rubbery steering did let it down. The Corolla Hatchback carries this torch as it feels even sharper with less body roll and a nimble feel. Steering is improved as well with a more natural feel when turning. I’ll still put the last-generation Mazda3 and Volkswagen Golf as the best-handling models in the class, but Corolla Hatchback isn’t too far behind.
      Despite its sporting intentions, the Corolla Hatchback coped very well on Detroit’s shambolic roads with most bumps and ruts being smoothed over. Part of this comes down to the SE having 16-inch wheels, allowing for more sidewall. Road noise is kept out, but there is a fair amount of wind noise that enters when driving on the freeway.
      Toyota pulled most of the stops out when working on the Corolla Hatchback and their efforts have paid off. It is the best looking Corolla in quite some time, offers surprising handling characteristics, and comes well equipped for the money. The SE begins at $21,090 and that includes adaptive cruise control, pre-collision system with pedestrian detection, eight-inch touchscreen, and LED lighting. Where the Corolla Hatchback loses ground is rear-seat space and cargo room which trails competitors by a significant amount. That’s the make or break decision as to whether you should or shouldn’t consider one.
      Nevertheless, Toyota has done the seemingly impossible: Made the Corolla interesting.
      Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the Corolla Hatchback, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2019
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Corolla Hatchback
      Trim: SE
      Engine: 2.0L DOHC 16-Valve D4S Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Front-Wheel Drive, CVT
      Horsepower @ RPM: 168 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 151 @ 4,800 
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 32/42/36
      Curb Weight: 3,060 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Toyota, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $21,090
      As Tested Price: $23,639.00 (Includes $920.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      SE Preferred Package - $1,400.00
      Carpet Mat Package - $229.00

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The Toyota Corolla for the past couple of decades has been the poster child of the vehicle that just existed. All it was built to do was go from point a to b without any sort of enthusiasm. But Toyota is wanting to change that with the redesign of Corolla, starting with the new Corolla Hatchback. Has it worked?
      The Corolla Hatchback falls in line with recent Toyota models with a shouty design. A sloping front end features massive lower grille, slim daytime running lights, and headlights that looked to be chiseled in. My SE tester lacked the 18-inch alloy wheels and a huge rear wing that is standard on the XSE. But the smaller wheels and wing provide a much cleaner look.
      The interior looks more expressive with a layered dashboard design and faux stitching around both the dash and transmission. In traditional Toyota fashion, controls for the various functions are within easy reach. An eight-inch screen mounted high on the dash is standard on Corolla Hatchbacks and comes with the latest version of Entune. As I have noted in other 2019 Toyotas, the updated Entune is noticeably quicker when switching between various functions. Also appreciated is the integration with Apple CarPlay which gives a driver another choice for infotainment. Those with Android phones will need to get their hands on the 2020 model. What I do wish is that Toyota had made the interface slightly more modern and added other colors that weren’t 50 shades of grey. 
      If you find yourself riding in the Corolla Hatchback, be sure to nab the front seat. Those sitting in the back will find space for their legs to be quite small. This isn’t helped with the narrow rear door openings. At least no one will have any complaints with the headroom as the hatchback has plenty of it. It gets even worse when you open up the rear tailgate and you’re presented with a minuscule 17.8 cubic feet of space behind the rear seats. The new Mazda3 offers more space at 20.1.
      Power comes from a new 2.0L four-cylinder producing 168 horsepower and 151 pounds-feet of torque, a noticeable increase from the outgoing Corolla iM - 137 HP and 126 lb-ft. This has moved overall performance impressions from poor to adequate as the hatchback is noticeably quicker around town. Country and highway driving are still a weak point as you’ll need to jam the gas to get any real movement from the engine. I would like to see either Toyota introduce a small turbo engine or figure out how to have torque readily available at a lower rpm. 
      My test vehicle was fitted with an optional CVT; a six-speed manual is standard. This CVT is different from others as Toyota fitted a fixed first gear ratio that it uses when leaving a stop. This reduces the rubber-band-type delay when accelerating and makes it feel more like a conventional automatic.
      EPA fuel economy figures for the Corolla Hatchback with the CVT are 32 City/42 Highway/36 Combined. My average for the week landed around 36.1 mpg.
      One area that the Corolla Hatchback’s predecessor impressed me was the handling. It felt planted and had surprising reflexes when going through a bend, but the rubbery steering did let it down. The Corolla Hatchback carries this torch as it feels even sharper with less body roll and a nimble feel. Steering is improved as well with a more natural feel when turning. I’ll still put the last-generation Mazda3 and Volkswagen Golf as the best-handling models in the class, but Corolla Hatchback isn’t too far behind.
      Despite its sporting intentions, the Corolla Hatchback coped very well on Detroit’s shambolic roads with most bumps and ruts being smoothed over. Part of this comes down to the SE having 16-inch wheels, allowing for more sidewall. Road noise is kept out, but there is a fair amount of wind noise that enters when driving on the freeway.
      Toyota pulled most of the stops out when working on the Corolla Hatchback and their efforts have paid off. It is the best looking Corolla in quite some time, offers surprising handling characteristics, and comes well equipped for the money. The SE begins at $21,090 and that includes adaptive cruise control, pre-collision system with pedestrian detection, eight-inch touchscreen, and LED lighting. Where the Corolla Hatchback loses ground is rear-seat space and cargo room which trails competitors by a significant amount. That’s the make or break decision as to whether you should or shouldn’t consider one.
      Nevertheless, Toyota has done the seemingly impossible: Made the Corolla interesting.
      Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the Corolla Hatchback, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2019
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Corolla Hatchback
      Trim: SE
      Engine: 2.0L DOHC 16-Valve D4S Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Front-Wheel Drive, CVT
      Horsepower @ RPM: 168 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 151 @ 4,800 
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 32/42/36
      Curb Weight: 3,060 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Toyota, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $21,090
      As Tested Price: $23,639.00 (Includes $920.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      SE Preferred Package - $1,400.00
      Carpet Mat Package - $229.00
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Los Angeles - Toyota Debuted today the Toyota RAV-4 Prime, a plug-in version of their RAV-4 hybrid.  The RAV-4 Prime ups the ante with a big bump to the horsepower figure, 302 horses combined between the gasoline engine and electric motors.  The gives the RAV-4 Prime a projected 0-60 of 5.8 seconds, the second fastest 0-60 in the Toyota lineup, while also delivering 90 MPGe. The RAV-4 Prime is capable of driving up to 39 miles in EV mode, making it the highest range PHEV SUV on the market. 
      In building the Prime, Toyota added a new higher capacity lithium-ion battery and a booster converter. That, combined with more powerful motor/generators give the electric side of the hybrid system an 83 horsepower boost. The engine is a variant of the 2.5 liter Atkinson-cycle gasoline unit found in the standard RAV-4 Hybrid and it produces the same 176 horsepower.  The larger battery is mounted under the floor so there is no compromise on interior space and it adds to a level of stability by giving the RAV-4 Prime a lower center of gravity.  
      RAV-4 Prime's electric on-demand all-wheel drive system is the same setup as found in the RAV-4. Rear mounted electric motors power the rear wheels on demand, including heavy acceleration situations. The AWD system also works to reduce understeer during cornering for better handling performance. 
      Starting with the 2020 model year, every Toyota Hybrid Battery Warranty has been increased from 8 years or 100,000 miles to 10 years from original date of first use, or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.
      Available in SE and XSE grades, the RAV-4 Prime will be available mid-summer 2020 as a 2021 model year. 

      View full article
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×
×
  • Create New...