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Drew Dowdell

Chevrolet News:GM Confirms and Teases Mid-Engine Corvette

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On 4/13/2019 at 9:14 PM, smk4565 said:

It has a bit of an Acura NSX profile to it, and I don't think the NSX looks good.   We have to see it to really comment on how it looks though.  

I think the big make or break for the C8 is pricing.  I get the sense that GM will price this rather high and that may miss the mark for current Corvette owners and a price point that tChevy dealers can support.  And they need GM fans to buy it.  The C8 could go 250 mph and get 100 mpg and cost half what a Ferrari F8 costs, and ZERO Ferrari owners will even give it a look because no one is going from a Ferrari to a Chevy.  This is a similar problem Cadillac has with name brand in going to high dollar segments.

 

I'll stop short of saying ZERO.

I personally sold a C7 Z06 to someone who had 2 previous Ferraris. He was done with them. Done with poor service, done with poor reliability, and done with their outrageous costs.

In fact, in a lot of ways, i think Ferrari owners are the the stereotypical Corvette owners of the supercar realm. They buy them to conclude to themselves and show others they've made it, they hardly ever drive them, and they are oftentimes little more than petulant fanboys.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Stinger is wildly over priced.  The Turbo V6 goes over $50k which is getting into 340i territory and the 340i is much faster, plus it a BMW not a Kia.     Even the 4-cylinder Stinger is $33k base so most of those are probably listed for $40k.  And the Stinger isn't any nicer inside than an Optima, and that new Sonata looks more luxurious than the Stinger.

If Chevy added a 4-door Camaro  that was $27k base and $45k for the 460 hp V6, they would add some sales to that 51k, rather than watch it just die off as coupes die.  

You are comparing large apples to smaller oranges. The Stinger is quite a bit longer and larger than any 3 series. It is closer in size to the 5 series, which is way higher in price, when comparably equipped. Furthermore, that $51K Stinger comes fully loaded while most of the turbo 6 models are closer to the $42-45 range. It never surprises me how much you try to dismiss or belittle anything that isn’t from Germany. 

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Edited by surreal1272
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Yeah, @smk4565 you're comparing two very different sized vehicles. The Stinger is priced very well compared to the luxury sport sedans. 

GT(with the 3.3TT) starts at $39,300.  

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50 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, @smk4565 you're comparing two very different sized vehicles. The Stinger is priced very well compared to the luxury sport sedans. 

GT(with the 3.3TT) starts at $39,300.  

What is it priced well compared to?  The Stinger is no nicer than an Optima or Camry.   A V6 Camry loaded up is $35k, the Stinger is that with rear drive and an extra 50 hp or so for $15,000 more.  The Stinger isn't a luxury car.  

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62k for a mid engine sports car is an INSANELY good deal.

I will guess most that end up on the showfloor will sticker at at least 75-80k.  There will be versions that 100k will be easy to hit.

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Not bad for a project that looks like it was based off the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept car.  It's amazing to look back in that time and see how much GM has changed so much and stayed the same since.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What is it priced well compared to?  The Stinger is no nicer than an Optima or Camry.   A V6 Camry loaded up is $35k, the Stinger is that with rear drive and an extra 50 hp or so for $15,000 more.  The Stinger isn't a luxury car.  

Stop moving the bar. That was not your initial gripe. You complained about the price being too high when compared to a compact luxury car and now you are splitting hairs over the interior when it looks just fine for its price/performance range. Shall we bring up the relative cheapness of entry model German cars and their faux leather, for example? 

 

And did you really type that? A Camry? A FWD non-sporty sedan against a RWD/AWD grand tourer? You have to be kidding me. Hey, while we are at it, let’s compare a $35K loaded Camry against a $53K 303 HP (35 HP less than a lower priced and loaded Stinger) Mercedes Benz E300? That’s how apples to oranges your comparisons are. 

Edited by surreal1272
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3 hours ago, regfootball said:

62k for a mid engine sports car is an INSANELY good deal.

I will guess most that end up on the showfloor will sticker at at least 75-80k.  There will be versions that 100k will be easy to hit.

I don't think it will be that cheap.  I am thinking like $80k base model.  Although that is also without me seeing the interior or knowing engine specs, but I predict price is going up.

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2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Stop moving the bar. That was not your initial gripe. You complained about the price being too high when compared to a compact luxury car and now you are splitting hairs over the interior when it looks just fine for its price/performance range. Shall we bring up the relative cheapness of entry model German cars and their faux leather, for example? 

 

And did you really type that? A Camry? A FWD non-sporty sedan against a RWD/AWD grand tourer? You have to be kidding me. Hey, while we are at it, let’s compare a $35K loaded Camry against a $53K 303 HP (35 HP less than a lower priced and loaded Stinger) Mercedes Benz E300? That’s how apples to oranges your comparisons are. 

My gripe is the Stinger is overpriced.  The V6 Stinger costs more than a V8 Mustang or Camaro for example.  And the Stinger isn't really any more luxurious or better equipped than a Mustang, it just has back doors.   A Stinger is more than a Hemi Charger, too, and again the Stinger is maybe marginally better on interior, only because the Charger is ancient.

I love the fact that Kia made a rear drive sports sedan, something different than all the FWD generic stuff that is out there.  But they missed the mark on pricing.  

Kia has sold 3,227 Stinger in the first quarter, (which is down from 3,920) and they sold 22,668 Optimas which is up from last year.  Same size car, I think similar interior quality/luxury in both.  You can even get the same 2 liter turbo in both, but in the Stringer they change you $10-15k more than Optima because they turned the engine the correct way.  Way too much of an up charge to send power to the back wheels instead of the front.

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14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What is it priced well compared to?  The Stinger is no nicer than an Optima or Camry.   A V6 Camry loaded up is $35k, the Stinger is that with rear drive and an extra 50 hp or so for $15,000 more.  The Stinger isn't a luxury car.  

It's priced more like a cheaper sports sedan, obviously. It's cheaper and roomier than a 330i that starts at 40k with a 2.0T. 

Stinger GT(TT3.3):$39,300

BMW 330i(base price): $40,250 

The 3.3 Stinger has 64hp and 109tq more than a V6 Camry. The Camry also cannot be optioned with AWD. 

As @surreal1272 has pointed out, it's considerably larger than a 3 Series. 

Stinger passenger volume: 93.8 cu.ft

Camry passenger volume: 100.4 cu.ft.

Stinger cargo volume(seats up): 23.3 cu.ft.

Camry cargo volume(seats up): 15.1 cu.ft.

Stinger total interior volume: 117.1 cu.ft.

Camry total interior volume: 115.5 cu.ft.

 

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

My gripe is the Stinger is overpriced.  The V6 Stinger costs more than a V8 Mustang or Camaro for example.  And the Stinger isn't really any more luxurious or better equipped than a Mustang, it just has back doors.   A Stinger is more than a Hemi Charger, too, and again the Stinger is maybe marginally better on interior, only because the Charger is ancient

And still none of those offer AWD or hatchback space in those trims you pointed out. 

Now arguing a Scat Pack(485hp) Charger starts at 41k is another story. I would definitely argue that is a fantastic value at 41k vs the Stinger GT at 39k. 

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

And still none of those offer AWD or hatchback space in those trims you pointed out. 

Now arguing a Scat Pack(485hp) Charger starts at 41k is another story. I would definitely argue that is a fantastic value at 41k vs the Stinger GT at 39k. 

The Altima has awd but only on 4-cylinder models as with Subaru.  If the Singer was good value, then awd and 2 extra doors should make it steal sales off Mustang and Camro all day long but that hasn’t happened.   And people aren’t paying $10k more than an Optima because Stinger has all wheel drive.  And the Stinger isn’t luxurious, the interior is below what you get in a Mazda 6.  Thus it has low sales.

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12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

My gripe is the Stinger is overpriced.  The V6 Stinger costs more than a V8 Mustang or Camaro for example.  And the Stinger isn't really any more luxurious or better equipped than a Mustang, it just has back doors.   A Stinger is more than a Hemi Charger, too, and again the Stinger is maybe marginally better on interior, only because the Charger is ancient.

I love the fact that Kia made a rear drive sports sedan, something different than all the FWD generic stuff that is out there.  But they missed the mark on pricing.  

Kia has sold 3,227 Stinger in the first quarter, (which is down from 3,920) and they sold 22,668 Optimas which is up from last year.  Same size car, I think similar interior quality/luxury in both.  You can even get the same 2 liter turbo in both, but in the Stringer they change you $10-15k more than Optima because they turned the engine the correct way.  Way too much of an up charge to send power to the back wheels instead of the front.

Your gripe is severely misplaced, is my point here as you keep comparing it to completely non related cars which now includes the Camaro and Mustang. Even your Optima comparison is off base because the 2.0 motor is the thing they have in common. Seriously, I just don’t even see how you can make these arguments about it being overpriced while being a fan of a company known for overpriced cars. Just stop the nonsense already. 

35 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Altima has awd but only on 4-cylinder models as with Subaru.  If the Singer was good value, then awd and 2 extra doors should make it steal sales off Mustang and Camro all day long but that hasn’t happened.   And people aren’t paying $10k more than an Optima because Stinger has all wheel drive.  And the Stinger isn’t luxurious, the interior is below what you get in a Mazda 6.  Thus it has low sales.

I would dare say that part of its issue is due to brand snobs like yourself. 

 

And for the love of all that’s holy, stop with the apples oranges comparisons. 

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36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Altima has awd but only on 4-cylinder models as with Subaru.  If the Singer was good value, then awd and 2 extra doors should make it steal sales off Mustang and Camro all day long but that hasn’t happened.   And people aren’t paying $10k more than an Optima because Stinger has all wheel drive.  And the Stinger isn’t luxurious, the interior is below what you get in a Mazda 6.  Thus it has low sales.

So again, it is a vehicle with options you cannot get for cheaper. I'm not sure where the argument is coming from.

Why would somebody be cross shopping mustang and camaros with a 4 door sedan? Not to say it never happens but I would think most that are looking at one is not in the market for the other. 

Also, Mustang and Camaro are down on sales...maybe it is stealing them.. 😏

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So SMK claims the Stinger is priced way too high over a FWD Optima while Mercedes does this. The A Class starts at more than $32K while the C Class is almost $10K more. We will sidestep the fact that $32K gets you a whopping 188HP in the “entry luxury” car. 

 

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6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Anywho, maybe the conversation needs to steer back to the original subject, which is the next Vette. 

Yes, not much is known in hard details like dimensions or engine/trans specs...all will be revealed in due time...

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6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Yes, not much is known in hard details like dimensions or engine/trans specs...all will be revealed in due time...

Which is typical of soon to be released Vettes but even more so this time around, given the complete overhaul of literally everything. 

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I'm excited to see what it looks like but I don't think it will look much different than any other mid-engined cars. The proportions are all about the same with similar venting...

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3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm excited to see what it looks like but I don't think it will look much different than any other mid-engined cars. The proportions are all about the same with similar venting...

Just looking at the camo-ed proto, it reminds me of the overall profile of the Ferrari Modena but with squared off scoops and a C6 style side window profile..   I'd rather have seen the glass hatch rear window ala the C5/C6, but it looks like it will get a narrow rear window like the C7 or a louvered arrangement and tiny rear window like so many mid engined cars.

Edited by Robert Hall

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Wonder if you could make this an EV with battery pack that would give it 300 miles on a charge? 🤔

Would be a kick to the nuts of Tesla if they did it! :P 

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35 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Wonder if you could make this an EV with battery pack that would give it 300 miles on a charge? 🤔

Would be a kick to the nuts of Tesla if they did it! :P 

Yes, get an ElectroVette in production before the mythical Tesla 'roadster'. 

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