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Cadillac News: Cadillac CT4 Debuts May 30th

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Well I'm not working this wknd.  I could step in.  BLACKWING FLEETWOODS, ELDORADOS AND ESCALADES FOR EVERYONE!

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On May 17, 2019 at 8:14 PM, smk4565 said:

Drop a ZR1 engine in an Escalade and charge $160,000 for it.  It would be pointless but people would buy it anyway.

Just curious; how many do you think would sell, when you continually claim "no one" bought the ATS and CTS??

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Just curious; how many do you think would sell, when you continually claim "no one" bought the ATS and CTS??

500 a year which at a $60k premium for an engine swap, and beefed up brakes and suspension seems like a way to get an extra $40k profit per unit which is $20 million in extra profit.

And they might be able to move 1,000 per year.  But also the 500 they sell are not 500 sales lost to Mercedes or Bentley or someone else.

Edited by smk4565

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

500 a year which at a $60k premium for an engine swap, and beefed up brakes and suspension seems like a way to get an extra $40k profit per unit which is $20 million in extra profit.

And they might be able to move 1,000 per year.  But also the 500 they sell are not 500 sales lost to Mercedes or Bentley or someone else.

How do you figure that Benz would not lose sales when that kind of Escalade would directly compete with high performance Benz SUVs? 

 

I just love how you sidestep anything that might reflect negatively on Benz. The statement above is a perfect example. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

How do you figure that Benz would not lose sales when that kind of Escalade would directly compete with high performance Benz SUVs? 

 

I just love how you sidestep anything that might reflect negatively on Benz. The statement above is a perfect example. 

Mercedes could lose sales if there was a 700 hp Escalade.  That could eat into GLS63 or G63 sales.  The performance SUV market is growing thankfully, I am sure Mercedes has lost sales the the Bentayga and Urus because the AMG SUVs, Cayenne Turbo and X5 M weren't the only game in town anymore.  But there is more and more demand for this sort of thing.

My point before was Cadillac is losing out on sales opportunity by not offering an Escalade-V or a CT6-V based crossover because all these other guys have ultra SUVs now.  For some odd reason there is demand for sub 4 second 0-60 SUVs that can do 190 mph and get around the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes all while offering top end luxury.

Edited by smk4565

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8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes could lose sales if there was a 700 hp Escalade.  That could eat into GLS63 or G63 sales.  The performance SUV market is growing thankfully, I am sure Mercedes has lost sales the the Bentayga and Urus because the AMG SUVs, Cayenne Turbo and X5 M weren't the only game in town anymore.  But there is more and more demand for this sort of thing.

My point before was Cadillac is losing out on sales opportunity by not offering an Escalade-V or a CT6-V based crossover because all these other guys have ultra SUVs now.  For some odd reason there is demand for sub 4 second 0-60 SUVs that can do 190 mph and get around the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes all while offering top end luxury.

Um no. This is what you said. 

“And they might be able to move 1,000 per year.  But also the 500 they sell are not 500 sales lost to Mercedes or Bentley or someone else”

 

I.e. even if Cadillac put out a hi-po Escalade it wouldn’t steal sales from Mercedes. Now you are, once again, trying to move the bar and backpedal on your literal words. Let me make myself clear on this. A hi-po Escalade will absolutely steal sales from Mercedes. There is no maybe or anything else for that matter that would change that fact. Cadillac started stealing sales from Benz the moment the Escalade hit its stride in 2007 and a 700 HP one would steal even more. 

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Um no. This is what you said. 

“And they might be able to move 1,000 per year.  But also the 500 they sell are not 500 sales lost to Mercedes or Bentley or someone else”

 

I.e. even if Cadillac put out a hi-po Escalade it wouldn’t steal sales from Mercedes. Now you are, once again, trying to move the bar and backpedal on your literal words. Let me make myself clear on this. A hi-po Escalade will absolutely steal sales from Mercedes. There is no maybe or anything else for that matter that would change that fact. Cadillac started stealing sales from Benz the moment the Escalade hit its stride in 2007 and a 700 HP one would steal even more. 

My statement what you have in bold states my belief that Cadillac is currently losing sales to Mercedes and others that have high performance SUVs.  They easily lose 500 units just by not offering the product and I think Cadillac can get 500 people that were going to buy an Escalade anyway to pay an extra $60,000 for a V-series.  They could sell 1,000 Escalde-V a year I think, 100 a month on average for a vehicle that has about 2,000 units a month volume I think is doable.

 

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I haven't read through everything but I saw sales comparisons.. Don't all new entries come out of the gate pretty hot? I think the Escalade and 'Gator numbers are pretty impressive not only besting the "competition" but the Escalade is the oldest by a country mile. 

On 5/17/2019 at 8:26 PM, riviera74 said:

By that (Escalade) standard, the XT6 might be too small and the CT4 is clearly not on-brand.  Gotta address that.

Ultimately, it all comes down to a unique selling point.  What does Cadillac have that NONE of the other luxury makes have?

Pretty much Escalade. The Navigator is the only true competition when it comes to a vehicle THAT size. 

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7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I haven't read through everything but I saw sales comparisons.. Don't all new entries come out of the gate pretty hot? I think the Escalade and 'Gator numbers are pretty impressive not only besting the "competition" but the Escalade is the oldest by a country mile. 

Pretty much Escalade. The Navigator is the only true competition when it comes to a vehicle THAT size. 

Reposting for clarity:

2019 Q1 figures This is ONLY January to March figures. BMW X7 was only on sale in March, no reported numbers for Jan or Feb. GLS is based on Jan - March sales as are Navigator and Escalade.

X7 - 2186

GLS -6017

Navigator - 4469

Escalade - 6819

Q1 2019 King of the SUV Full Size Luxury Sales is Cadillac Escalade.

I totally agree with you that all new auto's come out hot from the gate, the fact that the Escalade is still the champ with the oldest luxury SUV out there shows they have hit a consistent quality that people love.

 

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 6:26 PM, riviera74 said:

By that (Escalade) standard, the XT6 might be too small and the CT4 is clearly not on-brand.  Gotta address that.

Ultimately, it all comes down to a unique selling point.  What does Cadillac have that NONE of the other luxury makes have?

As a past and current Cadillac owner, I will say that Cadillac has lost their way on the cars, CUV's always have room to improve but they have nailed that even though I see no need for the CT4 or XT4 as Buick covers that small size niche as a Near luxury provider.

Cadillac Escalade has survived due to the way they ride, interior room, for some the Bling affect and a look on top of the feel that is hard to match.

Cadillac needs to embrace their history of names and with todays version of Magnetic ride control give customers what they want, the true full size large auto's with roomy interiors that can be driven in either drivers mode, sport, luxury, etc. what ever mode the individual wants allowing them to have their cake and eat it. That is what Cadillac needs to embrace and what they have with the Escalade.

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6 hours ago, dfelt said:

Reposting for clarity:

2019 Q1 figures This is ONLY January to March figures. BMW X7 was only on sale in March, no reported numbers for Jan or Feb. GLS is based on Jan - March sales as are Navigator and Escalade.

X7 - 2186

GLS -6017

Navigator - 4469

Escalade - 6819

Q1 2019 King of the SUV Full Size Luxury Sales is Cadillac Escalade.

I totally agree with you that all new auto's come out hot from the gate, the fact that the Escalade is still the champ with the oldest luxury SUV out there shows they have hit a consistent quality that people love.

 

As a past and current Cadillac owner, I will say that Cadillac has lost their way on the cars, CUV's always have room to improve but they have nailed that even though I see no need for the CT4 or XT4 as Buick covers that small size niche as a Near luxury provider.

Cadillac Escalade has survived due to the way they ride, interior room, for some the Bling affect and a look on top of the feel that is hard to match.

Cadillac needs to embrace their history of names and with todays version of Magnetic ride control give customers what they want, the true full size large auto's with roomy interiors that can be driven in either drivers mode, sport, luxury, etc. what ever mode the individual wants allowing them to have their cake and eat it. That is what Cadillac needs to embrace and what they have with the Escalade.

So what would you name the XT4, XT5 and XT6?   How would you most improve the CT6, as well as the CT5 and CT4?

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1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

So what would you name the XT4, XT5 and XT6

Escalade Kindergartner, Escalade Awkward Teen, and Escalade Senior In High School.  That way, the halo effect of the big boy stretches downward.

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1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

So what would you name the XT4, XT5 and XT6?   How would you most improve the CT6, as well as the CT5 and CT4?

I actually had a complete naming convention posted in another thread on that very same question of how I would change Cadillac and it got zero response.

Let me see if I can find it again. Search engine sucks for looking for ones earlier posts. :P 

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On 5/17/2019 at 8:58 AM, riviera74 said:

People want to buy a Buick Verano?  I know Buick is essentially a CUV brand these days, but I never saw a market for the Verano.  The 2nd Gen LaCrosse maybe, but not the Verano (or the Cascada for that matter).

Buick's price point has risen dramatically.  It's too close to that of Cadillac.

As for the Verano, I guess it depends on the dealership's catchment area and its demographics.  At the dealership I use, people have been asking for the lower priced Buick cars and CUV/SUV products.  Some of them want to only spend about $25 K on a new car.  In wealthier markets, this would be a non-issue.

I see a lot of Veranos and last-gen Regals on the road.  I also see way more last-gen LaCrosses (2010-201?) on the road than the current one ... a lot more.  GM, as a whole, should address its vehicle hierarchy and price points.  Its offerings feel slimmer and more confusing at the same time.

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14 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Buick's price point has risen dramatically.  It's too close to that of Cadillac.

As for the Verano, I guess it depends on the dealership's catchment area and its demographics.  At the dealership I use, people have been asking for the lower priced Buick cars and CUV/SUV products.  Some of them want to only spend about $25 K on a new car.  In wealthier markets, this would be a non-issue.

I see a lot of Veranos and last-gen Regals on the road.  I also see way more last-gen LaCrosses (2010-201?) on the road than the current one ... a lot more.  GM, as a whole, should address its vehicle hierarchy and price points.  Its offerings feel slimmer and more confusing at the same time.

I agree that there should be some significant price distance between Buick and Cadillac.  Cadillac will probably need to get more expensive for that to truly work.  Ideally, Cadillac would raise prices on all its vehicles by about $5000 AND Buick would trim prices by $2000 just so that each can have its own space in the marketplace.

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16 hours ago, riviera74 said:

So what would you name the XT4, XT5 and XT6?   How would you most improve the CT6, as well as the CT5 and CT4?

We'll could not find my name list but will take another stab here:

Cars, I would drop the coupe look, go back to having a trunk and make magnetic ride standard on all models with luxury float, sport  and V mode for driving and having the suspension deliver what the owner / driver wanted.

Power trains would be standard on a V6 with V8 option and Blackwood TTV8 as the top engine choice along with EV versions.

Names I would take Cadillac back to them:

SUV/Truck Names:

  • Escalade
  • Escalade ESV
  • Escalade EXT - This needs to come back.
  • XT7 = Fleetwood
  • XT6 = Palisade
  • XT5 = Eminence
  • XT4 = End of life, leave this category size to Buick.

Car Names:

  • CT6 = Escala
  • CT6 Coupe = Eldorado
  • CT5 = Ciel
  • CT5 Coupe = Calais

No need for the CT4, this is a luxury line and compacts belong to Buick and below.

All models would have Sport and V editions. That is 10 models with 3 trim levels per auto, all options can be bought at any trim level. Improving the CT6 as with all auto's in my lineup above would have real leather as base or a luxury cloth option on top of additional tiers of leather quality, real wood and the glossy black plastic trim would be a thing of the past. Carbon fiber would only be available as an option on V Sport and standard on V editions. Through out would be LED piping to highlight the feet area and beyond so that you could always find things. Massage chairs, recliners in the back of the car, minimum of 24" of leg room so one could stretch out. So much more Cadillac could do if only they would dream again to be the Standard of the World!

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On 5/17/2019 at 9:26 PM, riviera74 said:

By that (Escalade) standard, the XT6 might be too small and the CT4 is clearly not on-brand.  Gotta address that.

Ultimately, it all comes down to a unique selling point.  What does Cadillac have that NONE of the other luxury makes have?

SuperCruise. 

17 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Escalade Kindergartner, Escalade Awkward Teen, and Escalade Senior In High School.  That way, the halo effect of the big boy stretches downward.

Cutlass Calais, Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass Cierra, Cutlass Salon...

17 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Buick's price point has risen dramatically.  It's too close to that of Cadillac.

As for the Verano, I guess it depends on the dealership's catchment area and its demographics.  At the dealership I use, people have been asking for the lower priced Buick cars and CUV/SUV products.  Some of them want to only spend about $25 K on a new car.  In wealthier markets, this would be a non-issue.

I see a lot of Veranos and last-gen Regals on the road.  I also see way more last-gen LaCrosses (2010-201?) on the road than the current one ... a lot more.  GM, as a whole, should address its vehicle hierarchy and price points.  Its offerings feel slimmer and more confusing at the same time.

The market for sedans is drying up.  That's why you see more older regals and lacrosses than you do new ones. 

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@dfelt

I am on board with Cadillac returning to names.  As a result of the letters and numbers, I no longer know what's what.

As for the name Calais, it was on a Cadillac product at one time before Oldsmobile picked it up as a type of Cutlass ... and as a stand-alone name plate.

French names and Cadillac go hand in hand.  Cadillac is a French word.  It's even one of the stops on the Montreal Metro's green line!

Edited by trinacriabob
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On 5/21/2019 at 4:36 PM, trinacriabob said:

@dfelt

I am on board with Cadillac returning to names.  As a result of the letters and numbers, I no longer know what's what.

As for the name Calais, it was on a Cadillac product at one time before Oldsmobile picked it up as a type of Cutlass ... and as a stand-alone name plate.

French names and Cadillac go hand in hand.  Cadillac is a French word.  It's even one of the stops on the Montreal Metro's green line!

Its a French sir name.

Cadillac is a street name, and the Metro station is on that street and so the Metro station takes the name of the street its on.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5768388,-73.5466271,3a,39.8y,65.5h,88.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBqKV-qH-HXp0f4krtejSLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

My 99 soon to be 100 year old auntie lives near this Metro station. In fact her old apartment and her new old age home is a mere 5 minute walk from there.  Further east on Sherbrooke Street, there is a McDonald's. That would be the first McDonald's Iv ever been to waaaay back when I was 5 or 6 years old. A little later, a Burger King opened up. And you guessed it...that would be the first Burger King Ive ever been to.  Both are still there.  A St. Hubert BBQ rotisserie chicken restaurant is a tad closer.  My family would eat there too often enough.

The Olympic Stadium is further WEST on Sherbrooke street. Yes. The Montreal Expos would play there. And yes...I would go see them play often as I lived close by. On Ste Catherine Street. Yes...The same Ste Catherine Street that is the heart of Downtown Montreal.  Pie-IX Metro station is where the Olympic Stadium is. In Between Cadillac Metro  and Pie-IX Metro would be Viau Metro station. And those are the streets that those Metro Stations are on.  The Stadium would be between Pie-IX and Viau...

When clicking on the link, turn the direction towards west, and not even advancing forward on anything and you would see the Olympic Village Appartments.

 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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