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Cadillac News: 2020 Cadillac CT4-V and CT5-V Aren't As Powerful As Their Predecessors

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Posted (edited)

 

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Oh you are right, it is a DOHC.  I thought then it came out they said it was a pushrod, but that is my mistake.  That is a crazy low redline for a DOHC engine.

I  thought that also... had to look it up.  I think I was conflating it with the new Ford Super Duty pushrod V8.  Wikipedia had the redline at 6100..but still low.  Anyone know what the redline of the 2.0 turbo in the Camaro and others is? 

Edited by Robert Hall

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18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well that is what it is.  A low revving pushrod 4 that has a 5,700 rpm redline in a freaking performance car!  How is that Cadillac level refinement, or high performance?

GM just can't help themselves, they will nickel and dime anything and they clearly don't care about Cadillac as a brand given these two vehicles.

Cadillac is not the only company nickel and diming their cars but I’m betting you wouldn’t recognize that fact because it involves Mercedes. Almost all makes do it these days. 

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Just now, balthazar said:

You believe redline level determines if a car is a performance car or not? 😄

No, but most performance cars rev over 6,000 rpm at least.  This isn't a Bentley Arnage.

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Posted (edited)

I am one that thinks its ok to have a little bit less performance if it means AWD is finally available for the V cars.  Now at least in a snow state you can realistically think of owning one and using it all year, that alone is HUGE.  You know the blackwing will end up in the CT5 and i am sure something more wild will end up in the CT4 down the road too.  A four cylinder in the Ct4 doesn't bother me at all, because the CT5 has the v6.  With the long stroke on the 4 we need to see if it revs well enough and that the engine runs smooth but it makes sense to me to make it a hot 4 instead of the extra weight of the v6.  The interior of the CT4 like the Ct5 is nice but i do agree with all the comments about too many black tones with GM.  At least in cadillac you may have some more color choices.  The Ct4 looks classier even if its just a rubbed and oiled ATS.  I like the rear end look on it just fine.  The Ct5 rear window debacle looks even worse here, wtf was GM thinking.  Big trouble with CT4 will be whether it has more interior space or not.  If it has the same useless back seat as the ATS, same shitty trunk, etc. it may still be an issue.

Cadillac is making the V series Cadillac sedans cheaper because neither chevy nor buick can sell any sedans at a higher price.  Caddy is left to serve the sedan market, whatever is left and therefore is trying to find a sweet spot in price and performance that will allow these things to sell enough in the showroom and make profit.  So Cadillac V series is the new GM excitement! division, it brings more people into  the GM fold instead of 90,000 dollar V cars.  I don't mind this, you know there will be a more expensive CT5 blackwing eventually.

CT4 and CT5 need to get their shit together and have a really nice lease program.  Lower prices may help keep better residuals and actually help move more metal.  GM really needs a great base CT4 with a great base lease deal to bring new younger buyers into the brand.

Edited by regfootball

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7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Cadillac is not the only company nickel and diming their cars but I’m betting you wouldn’t recognize that fact because it involves Mercedes. Almost all makes do it these days. 

And where are they doing that?  There is no shortage of horsepower at Mercedes. They also didn't release an AMG E-class with 355 hp, well they did back in 1999, but they would not today.

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4 minutes ago, regfootball said:

I am one that thinks its ok to have a little bit less performance if it means AWD is finally available for the V cars. 

The BMW M5 Competition has all wheel drive and the dyno test shows 617 hp and 606 lb-ft at the wheels.  So that is 700 hp engine at the crank.  Cadillac didn't have to remove horsepower to make them all wheel drive.  

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I wonder if this 2.7 is half of the new 5.5 liter that is being rumored. The black wing in the ct6 is the 4.2 liter version. If the 5.5 is essentially 2 cylinder banks of the 2.7 in a V then possibly this should be a smooth 4 cylinder and possibly have room for much higher tune. 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

No, but most performance cars rev over 6,000 rpm at least.  This isn't a Bentley Arnage.

Obviously you don't believe your own post. 

There is no shortage of horsepower at Mercedes.


There is in the A-class: 188 HP. That's 15 hp less than a camry 4-banger.

Edited by balthazar
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42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And where are they doing that?  There is no shortage of horsepower at Mercedes. They also didn't release an AMG E-class with 355 hp, well they did back in 1999, but they would not today.

Did I say anything about horsepower? Nope. Sure didn’t. There are plenty of other ways that Benz has nickel and dimes their cars just like everyone else has. 

 

Having said that, I think gave a great example of horsepower or lack thereof and I will add that a $41K starting price for a 255HP C Class is a bit of a ripoff. And before you try to throw in the Cadillac example know this. Only Benz is advertising their cars as the “best or nothing” while charging $41K for a 255HP car. 

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21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Obviously you don't believe your own post. 
 


There is in the A-class: 188 HP. That's 15 hp less than a camry 4-banger.

But you can get an A-class with 406 hp also and that is a tiny car.

I am not against a 4 cylinder, CT4 and CT5 should both have standard 4’s because most people don’t care about having more than 250 hp or so.  But these V-series are weaker than the ‘04 CTS-V by a good margin.

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Just now, surreal1272 said:

Did I say anything about horsepower? Nope. Sure didn’t. There are plenty of other ways that Benz has nickel and dimes their cars just like everyone else has. 

 

Having said that, I think gave a great example of horsepower or lack thereof and I will add that a $41K starting price for a 255HP C Class is a bit of a ripoff. And before you try to throw in the Cadillac example know this. Only Benz is advertising their cars as the “best or nothing” while charging $41K for a 255HP car. 

The C-class, as with all Mercedes-Benz/Maybach are luxury first and then performance.  A C300 isn’t a performance car, so 255 hp in there is fine for its purpose.  And you can get 503 hp in there if you want.

If Cadillac has world beater interiors and was selling ride comfort and hand stitched leather the power wouldn’t matter.  Sort of what Lincoln is doing, they are trying to sell interior comfort and don’t care about performance.    But Cadillac are selling V-series sports cars here with these engines.

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Nobody buys an a-class amg. 
If 'most people don't care about have more than 250 HP', what are they going to think about a camry running away from their entry-level MB? 188 HP is laughable; the CLA had 208 HP 6 years ago and the a-class is the same size.

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3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Fail. These should be V sports.

More like the standard first, then go from there..

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The C-class, as with all Mercedes-Benz/Maybach are luxury first and then performance.  A C300 isn’t a performance car, so 255 hp in there is fine for its purpose.  And you can get 503 hp in there if you want.

If Cadillac has world beater interiors and was selling ride comfort and hand stitched leather the power wouldn’t matter.  Sort of what Lincoln is doing, they are trying to sell interior comfort and don’t care about performance.    But Cadillac are selling V-series sports cars here with these engines.

You have missed the point entirely. Fact. Mercedes nickel and dimes just like the rest of them. 

 

And while the V series is being mislabeled here, it has already been stated that higher up models are coming with a different designation. Also, outside of the monotone color, the interior design of both Cadillacs looks more modern than their Mercedes counterpart. I’m sure you will disagree because you won’t see Benz any other way but that’s just what I think. 

 

Oh and how many attempts has Mercedes had at making Maybach relevant in this country? I’ve lost count to be honest. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But you can get an A-class with 406 hp also and that is a tiny car.

I am not against a 4 cylinder, CT4 and CT5 should both have standard 4’s because most people don’t care about having more than 250 hp or so.  But these V-series are weaker than the ‘04 CTS-V by a good margin.

Oooh, a FWD based 406HP car (yes I know that model is AWD but those are FWD bones in there)! That should go over well. Yeah, that’s a hard pass. 

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I am with Paulie, I cannot grasp the mixed vertical and horizontal taillight theme on these new Cadillacs.  It is vertical or nothing.  However, am I the only one in here who actually likes the CT4-V?  Yes the single tone interior is too somber... and it looks like the ATS with a mid-cycle refresh... but I like it more than the CT5.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I am with Paulie, I cannot grasp the mixed vertical and horizontal taillight theme on these new Cadillacs.  It is vertical or nothing.  However, am I the only one in here who actually likes the CT4-V?  Yes the single tone interior is too somber... and it looks like the ATS with a mid-cycle refresh... but I like it more than the CT5.

I definitely like the CT4 roofline more than the CT5.   Looking forward to seeing how regular trim CT4s look.  

Edited by Robert Hall

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I like CT4 front and side much more than the CT5, not sure about the rear though.

As many said before, this should have been V-sport trim , not the V.   Really disappointing, if they want to compete with Germans and make over 100 less hp.

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11 hours ago, balthazar said:

AaaAaaaaaaaaaaaannnd there it is. Took a few minutes more than I thought!

In all fairness, GM themselves said it was a truck engine.. 

So GM is following step for step with Mercedes and BMW with the "fake AMG" and 'fake M' naming on middle of the pack cars now.. awesome.. 

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In looking thru the 2019 Silverado brochure, I can't find where the term "truck engine" was used.
There really is no such thing. GM put the 350 in millions of trucks, and thousands of Corvettes. No one ever thought to twist the phrase 'the Vette has a truck engine in it". 

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Oh you are right, it is a DOHC.  I thought then it came out they said it was a pushrod, but that is my mistake.  That is a crazy low redline for a DOHC engine.

It's a tri-power engine that can run on 2 cylinders. It's cammed for low end torque over high end horsepower. I'm okay with the engine actually. I just don't think it's worth of the V series badge 

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What I wonder is if this move has to do with CAFE?  And will the Camaro V6 be replaced by the 2.7 turbo 4 and the Camaro SS get the CT5-V engine?  Making the V8 Camaro only at the Z28 or ZL1 high dollar level.  And I could see the 2.7 as the base Tahoe engine too.

And if it isn’t about CAFE then are they moving Cadillac down market because the Malibu could be the only sedan GM has outside of Cadillac when they kill the Opel based Regal.  And maybe they need sedans in that $30k- $40k range. 

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11 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

 

I  thought that also... had to look it up.  I think I was conflating it with the new Ford Super Duty pushrod V8.  Wikipedia had the redline at 6100..but still low.  Anyone know what the redline of the 2.0 turbo in the Camaro and others is? 

The Mustang's 2.3 makes peak power at 5700rpm. Not sure what redline is but proably 6000-6300 maybe. 

Fusion 2.0 makes peak power at 5500rpm.

The Camaro 2.0 makes peak power at 5600rpm so likely similar. 

40 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In looking thru the 2019 Silverado brochure, I can't find where the term "truck engine" was used.
There really is no such thing. GM put the 350 in millions of trucks, and thousands of Corvettes. No one ever thought to twist the phrase 'the Vette has a truck engine in it". 

I'll look harder. It might have been a TFL video where they were talking to an engineer but I am certain I read or heard a quote that it was for trucks because of NVH. 

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37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The Mustang's 2.3 makes peak power at 5700rpm. Not sure what redline is but proably 6000-6300 maybe. 

There is no engineering reason to have a redline anymore than 100-200 RPM above peak power. It’s utterly pointless to have one 600 RPM above.

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3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

There is no engineering reason to have a redline anymore than 100-200 RPM above peak power. It’s utterly pointless to have one 600 RPM above.

Well, talk to the engineers about that. 

I had to go to a dealer website to make sure I found a 2.3's instrument cluster.

 

2.3 gauges.jpg

https://www.driveprime.com/new-Prime+Motor+Group-2018-Ford-Mustang-EcoBoost-1FATP8UH6J5100685 

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