"GM takes flack..."

[regfootball]

.........and I would love to see a Prius towing a 6,000 lb trailer.

or a boat. yeah, that'd be dandy.

toyota's pickups historically can't tow fer sh1t, i doubt a prius could tow a greenie dragged across the pavement!

Edited June 5, 2006 by regfootball

[haypops]

or a boat.  yeah, that'd be dandy.

It works a lot better if you use a trailer for that. Of course I'm just an old guy, so I'm not as smart as you.

[andy82471]

or a boat.  yeah, that'd be dandy.

toyota's pickups historically can't tow fer sh1t, i doubt a prius could tow a greenie dragged across the pavement!

The new Tundra supposedly can tow over 10,000 lbs. But the current Tundra is a dog as far as towing goes.

[Cadillacfan]

And the Toyota Prius is supposed to get over 60 mpg. So much for Toyota making promises.

[regfootball]

The new Tundra supposedly can tow over 10,000 lbs. But the current Tundra is a dog as far as towing goes.

your average greenie-nader only eats veggies anyways so that's what, 160 pounds on a humid day? i think the tundra CAN tow that..........

Edited June 5, 2006 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

It works a lot better if you use a trailer for that.  Of course I'm just an old guy, so I'm not as smart as you.

:lol:

[CaddyXLR-V]

Offering better small cars won't kill GMT900 sales. A consumer conscious about climate change will simply go elsewhere.

No, but with limited resources and money inside GM, where would you choose to spend the development money? Huge profit trucks and SUVs, or thin margin small cars?

[tmp]

I am Mr. liberal tree-hugger and I am highly annoyed by a$$holes who make these broad pronouncements. Just like Toyota, GM is in business to sell cars, and they have every right to market them in any way they see fit. If Friedman was really that concerened for the health and welfare of mother earth, he'd dump his Lexus (which doesn't get the greatest mileage in the world anyway, and donatethe money to Greenpeace. He can take the bus or the subway to work: if I can do it in Los Angeles, I think he can manage it in New York.

Edited June 5, 2006 by tmp

[andy82471]

your average greenie-nader only eats veggies anyways so that's what, 160 pounds on a humid day?  i think the tundra CAN tow that..........

It will be interesting to see what Tom Freidmen has to say about the upcoming TUNDRA and SEQUOIA.

[sciguy_0504]

No, but with limited resources and money inside GM, where would you choose to spend the development money? Huge profit trucks and SUVs, or thin margin small cars?

Toyota and Honda seem to have been getting by all these years with their "thin margin small cars" and just a fraction of the trucks and SUVs GM has.

[andy82471]

Toyota and Honda seem to have been getting by all these years with their "thin margin small cars" and just a fraction of the trucks and SUVs GM has.

Good Point, Sciguy. I personally think the 04 Malibu should have gotten SATURN AURA's powertrain. I think GM would have been a lot more competitive. But looks like GM has finally learned its lesson about not taking short cuts to make a buck or two. GM's future lineup looks very promising. I just hope the DELPHI situtation gets settled quickly.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Toyota and Honda seem to have been getting by all these years with their "thin margin small cars" and just a fraction of the trucks and SUVs GM has.

Yes, but what works for Honda and Toyota wont necessarily work for GM. GM does have a cost disadvantage that pretty much wipes out any profit on small cars. GM CAN make world class small cars, they just wont make money on them. GM would have been dead a long time ago if it weren't for the higher margin trucks and suvs bring in.

[Eric77TA]

Doesn't the Sequouia get horrific mileage, especially for its miniscule size?  Are they still selling fuel sucking GX Lexus and Landcruisers?

Yeah, I don't get this at all. Every time someone talks about GMs "Poor fuel efficiency" and holds Toyota out as an example they never point out the fact Toyota makes the Sequoia (15 MPG), Land Cruiser (13 MPG), GX470 (15 MPG), and 4Runner (16 MPG).

And the Highlander (non Hybrid), RX330 and FJ Cruiser all get under 20 - not spectacular, really.

And that doesn't even include the trucks - especially not the new, bigger Tundra that's coming.

And you know what? Even If Toyota WERE to buy GM, I think they'd still build the GMT900s.

[eaton53]

It will be interesting to see what Tom Freidmen has to say about the upcoming TUNDRA and SEQUOIA.

You really think he'll say anything? Of course he won't....

[Robert Hall]

GM builds excellent and popular large SUV's that SUCK FUEL.

Doesn't the Sequouia get horrific mileage, especially for its miniscule size?  Are they still selling fuel sucking GX Lexus and Landcruisers?

'miniscule'? Only if you are delusional..I wouldn't call a 203-inch long, 5000 lb SUV 'miniscule'.

[sciguy_0504]

Yeah, I don't get this at all.  Every time someone talks about GMs "Poor fuel efficiency" and holds Toyota out as an example they never point out the fact Toyota makes the Sequoia (15 MPG), Land Cruiser (13 MPG), GX470 (15 MPG), and 4Runner (16 MPG).

And the Highlander (non Hybrid), RX330 and FJ Cruiser all get under 20 - not spectacular, really.

And that doesn't even include the trucks - especially not the new, bigger Tundra that's coming.

You are forgetting the RAV4 and LX470 on the SUV list. The truck list contains the Tacoma and Tundra.

Meanwhile, GM has the 'Nox, Trailblazer, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Colorado, Silverado, Express, Envoy, Yukon, Yukon XL, Canyon, Sierra, Savana, Torrent, VUE, 9-7X, Rainer, Rendezvous, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT and SRX.

11 to 23 based on my count. Yep, that cow is milked dry.

[CaddyXLR-V]

You are forgetting the RAV4 and LX470 on the SUV list.  The truck list contains the Tacoma and Tundra.

Meanwhile, GM has the 'Nox, Trailblazer, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Colorado, Silverado, Express, Envoy, Yukon, Yukon XL, Canyon, Sierra, Savana, Torrent, VUE, 9-7X, Rainer, Rendezvous, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT and SRX.

11 to 23 based on my count.  Yep, that cow is milked dry.

Now compare the car lines, I'll bet GM has more than double what Toyota has of cars too.

[ponchoman49]

Does anybody take that moron seriously? In all fairness though, GM should be finding ways to improve cars like the Aveo, Cobalt, Malibu and some others on mileage. I mean it's pretty embaressing that the Malibu now only gets 32 highway with the 2.2 liter L4 when in the past it was rated at 34-35 and that 32 rating is the same as the V6 model! The Cobalt needs an engine that will get 40 highway like the Corolla. And there is no excuse ever why a penalty box like the Aveo can't eke out 40 plus highway ratings with a tiny little engine and a tiny little car with very light weight. The Lucerne is a dissapointment at 19/28 when older versions of this car were rated at 30 highway. The 3900 is even worse and it's DOD version still can't match an old 3800's 30 highway rating. Of course a lot of this is due to outdated transmissions being used in cars that weight considerably more than there predecessors.

[sciguy_0504]

Now compare the car lines, I'll bet GM has more than double what Toyota has of cars too.

It's obvious you don't grasp the point.

[CaddyXLR-V]

It's obvious you don't grasp the point.

Was it not your point to show how many more trucks GM builds than Toyota? If not, then your right, I don't grasp the point.

If that was your point, then my point was that GM having more trucks than Toyota, is proportionate to GM having more cars than Toyota as well.

[sciguy_0504]

Was it not your point to show how many more trucks GM builds than Toyota? If not, then your right, I don't grasp the point.

If that was your point, then my point was that GM having more trucks than Toyota, is proportionate to GM having more cars than Toyota as well.

The point is do not complain when enviros, the media or other people make remarks about GM having so many trucks. It does have more and GM relies on them much more than any other automaker to make the company money.

[Shantanu]

The point is do not complain when enviros, the media or other people make remarks about GM having so many trucks.  It does have more and GM relies on them much more than any other automaker to make the company money.

Not true, you obviously don't know much about the auto industry. GM has always been the most car reliant of the Detroit automakers, cranking out about 50% cars 50% trucks until very recently, when Chrysler and Ford have been making 75% trucks for a number of years.

[Regalguy01]

The whole premise of the article is pure garbage. GM is simply doing what they think they have to in order to sell their vehicles. Period. If Mr. "dumbass" Friedman wants the US to cut down on their consumption of foreign oil, let him pay his lobbyists like every one else. Have them convince congress to increase the gas tax so the price per gallon is 5 or 10 dollars a gallon. Then people will cut back on the gas guzzlers.

Until then he should stop whining. Nobody cares about his opinion.

My sentiments exactly.

[sciguy_0504]

Not true, you obviously don't know much about the auto industry.  GM has always been the most car reliant of the Detroit automakers, cranking out about 50% cars 50% trucks until very recently, when Chrysler and Ford have been making 75% trucks for a number of years.

Alrighty, then...

The point is do not complain when enviros, the media or other people make remarks about American auto manufacturers having so many trucks. They do have more and they rely on them much more than foreign automakers to make the companies money.

On the other hand, the media and enviros couldn't care less about the car/truck mixture 20 years ago. They just report and comment on what's happening now.

[Shantanu]

Alrighty, then...

The point is do not complain when enviros, the media or other people make remarks about American auto manufacturers having so many trucks.  They do have more and they rely on them much more than foreign automakers to make the companies money.

On the other hand, the media and enviros couldn't care less about the car/truck mixture 20 years ago.  They just report and comment on what's happening now.

I'm not talking about 20 years ago, I'm talking about now. You obviously know nothing of the auto industry. Ford is basically propped up by two products: F-150 and Explorer. And Chrysler gets its sales from vans/trucks/SUVs, though the 300 seems to make more hype than actual sales.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Shantanu

[pow]

I'm not talking about 20 years ago, I'm talking about now. You obviously know nothing of the auto industry.  Ford is basically propped up by two products: F-150 and Explorer.  And Chrysler gets its sales from vans/trucks/SUVs, though the 300 seems to make more hype than actual sales.

You obviously like telling people that. Or you have a bad memory (you already told him that a few posts ago...)

[Mr Plow 2500HD]

Its hard to find a country that beats itself down more with artifical guilt than us. People like friedman are getting pissy because GM has been doing better lately, ie gmt900. This dosnt fit in with his preconcived conclusion that GM should be bankrupt by know because it deserves to be. Screw you blame detroit for what ever you want pal it just shows how SMUG you and the others like you in the media and politics really are.

[Shantanu]

You know, it's funny. If anyone says "I hope Toyota goes bankrupt", they'll be accused of being racist, including by some people here on thse forums. But say, "I hope GM goes out of business', and you'll be celebrated for your "progressive mindset".

[sciguy_0504]

I'm not talking about 20 years ago, I'm talking about now.  You obviously know nothing of the auto industry.  Ford is basically propped up by two products: F-150 and Explorer.  And Chrysler gets its sales from vans/trucks/SUVs, though the 300 seems to make more hype than actual sales.

Again, you're making my point.

[ellives]

I'm not talking about 20 years ago, I'm talking about now.  You obviously know nothing of the auto industry.  Ford is basically propped up by two products: F-150 and Explorer.  And Chrysler gets its sales from vans/trucks/SUVs, though the 300 seems to make more hype than actual sales.

Um - ever heard of a Mustang?

[haypops]

Um - ever heard of a Mustang?

Down 21% for the month of May and sold less than the Tauraus. I suppose that really isn't all that bad, its just that we sometimes declare certain models a success when their sales really aren't any better than something else referred to as a flop.

Sorry about butting in where I don't belong.

Edited June 8, 2006 by haypops

[regfootball]

You know, it's funny.  If anyone says "I hope Toyota goes bankrupt", they'll be accused of being racist, including by some people here on thse forums.  But say, "I hope GM goes out of business', and you'll be celebrated for your "progressive mindset".

I would love to see Toyota get DESTROYED.

Not Honda, they do build some ok motorcycles, my lawn mower engine....other things. In not as pretentious of ways. They HAVE actually contributed to our culture and business community moreso over time than Toyota.

Put it this way....does Toyota claim American to sell more cars, or to be a contributing member in US business like Honda? If Honda cars went, they'd still have all their power equipment and motorcycles. Toyota doesn't give a flying fk. They are just here to extract car sales. Hyundai: same thing. Hyundai DOES NOTHING to contribute to our national fabric. Even less than Toyota.

WHAT DO Kia and Hyundai contribute?

Edited June 8, 2006 by regfootball

[ellives]

I would love to see Toyota get DESTROYED. 

Not Honda, they do build some ok motorcycles, my lawn mower engine....other things.  In not as pretentious of ways.  They HAVE actually contributed to our culture and business community moreso over time than Toyota.

Put it this way....does Toyota claim American to sell more cars, or to be a contributing member in US business like Honda?  If Honda cars went, they'd still have all their power equipment and motorcycles.  Toyota doesn't give a flying fk.  They are just here to extract car sales.  Hyundai: same thing.  Hyundai DOES NOTHING to contribute to our national fabric.  Even less than Toyota.

WHAT DO Kia and Hyundai contribute?

A continued downward spiral of our middle class standard of living?

[regfootball]

A continued downward spiral of our middle class standard of living?

funny thing is, hyundai isn't vastly cheaper. just enough to be noticeable. like 5-10%.

[Eric77TA]

You are forgetting the RAV4 and LX470 on the SUV list.  The truck list contains the Tacoma and Tundra.

Meanwhile, GM has the 'Nox, Trailblazer, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Colorado, Silverado, Express, Envoy, Yukon, Yukon XL, Canyon, Sierra, Savana, Torrent, VUE, 9-7X, Rainer, Rendezvous, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT and SRX.

11 to 23 based on my count.  Yep, that cow is milked dry.

I should have had the LX470 on my list, but intentionally didn't include the RAV4, since it gets pretty decent mileage. Rather than trying to name all the Toyota SUVs my point was that Toyota's big SUVs get poor gas mileage, too. But these somehow disappear whenever there is an article in the media about Toyota's "fuel efficient" cars.

[haypops]

Toyota doesn't give a flying fk. 

Strange word choice. Toyota is into General Aviation and recreational boats.

[andy82471]

Does Tom Friedman have his email address listed ? If so we should all give him a piece of our mind. Most of his recent articles are complete junk anyway.