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Haha, while ignoring the elephant in the room... CALIFORNIA... the biggest whiny brat in the union.

So, you're not wrong, but just wanted to zoom in a bit for more detail.... Storms do happen, no grid is ever 100%.  I lose power shockingly often for being only ~10 miles from a downtown metro ar

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I missed this in the GM presentations at CES 2021 yesterday, but the VP of Cadillac announced an all new luxury 2 person EV car will be coming from Cadillac.

GM Confirms New Two Seater Cadillac EV Concept Is On The Way | GM Authority

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@balthazar @ccap41 I think depending on where one lives, getting a constant high speed electric stream into the battery pack can be a challenge especially for states that have poor electrical grids compared to other states where they have the flow. Yet with that said, while it does affect how fast one recharges on a road trip, most people I believe will charge up at home always having a full battery pack in the morning to start. 

We are also in the early stages and while some standards have been set, I think there is still plenty of room to grow the quality and reliability of the stream of power to hit the designated rate of recharge. It might mean that they need a battery pack to hold the power to help with quick recharging.

In regards to the cost of fueling an electric car, always been some people who come up with these crazy formula's and state it is 2 to 3 times more expensive. Real world has proven this to not be true. I question that persons use of Tesla as an example due to how many people get free charging or prepay at a very competitive rate to home charging.

Again real world charging across the west coast does not bare out that crazy almost $9 per gallon equivalent cost. West coast has a maximum charge allowed on public charging stations so that example is very invalid even Tesla has stated that using the public listed prices is unusual for most tesla owners.

Even the story link says that this is the exception rather than the norm where most people charge at home at ultra cheap rates.

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1 hour ago, David said:

@balthazar @ccap41 I think depending on where one lives, getting a constant high speed electric stream into the battery pack can be a challenge especially for states that have poor electrical grids compared to other states where they have the flow. Yet with that said, while it does affect how fast one recharges on a road trip, most people I believe will charge up at home always having a full battery pack in the morning to start. 

We are also in the early stages and while some standards have been set, I think there is still plenty of room to grow the quality and reliability of the stream of power to hit the designated rate of recharge. It might mean that they need a battery pack to hold the power to help with quick recharging.

Well they need to sort this issue out because it is far from the first time I've read stations not charging anywhere near their stated rate AND having multiple plugs "out of order". It would be infuriating if you're taking a road trip and you think you can stop for 45 minutes for a quick charge and are stuck for 2-3 hours.

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1 hour ago, David said:

come up with these crazy formula's and state it is 2 to 3 times more expensive.

1 hour ago, David said:

Real world has proven this to not be true.

The "crazy" formula was grade-school straight forward : cost per mile.
And the piece I quoted literally was 'real world'.

- - - - -
New Year's Day there were SEVEN Teslas at the Supercharger station across the road from me, with another pulled off to the side. Around 9AM. Saying 'most people charge at home' may not be accurate... because at that date & time, the station should've been completely empty.

If most people charge at home, why the fenzied push to build more & more Supercharger stations? Doesn't everybody have an electrified home?

 

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1 minute ago, balthazar said:

The "crazy" formula was grade-school straight forward : cost per mile.
And the piece I quoted literally was 'real world'.

- - - - -
New Year's Day there were SEVEN Teslas at the Supercharger station across the road from me, with another pulled off to the side. Around 9AM. Saying 'most people charge at home' may not be accurate... because at that date & time, the station should've been completely empty.

If most people charge at home, why the fenzied push to build more & more Supercharger stations? Doesn't everybody have an electrified home?

 

You know I respect your opinion but you are seriously reaching here. Just because someone has a Tesla or EV doesn't mean they have home charger. You are also using a very small sample here ("there were seven Teslas...") to make your case but unless you actually ask those very owners A.) "Do you have a home charger for your EV" followed by B.) "Why are you charging here if you have a home charger", then you don't have a clue what or why. You're just grasping at straws for whatever reason. Sorry, but it just doesn't hold water IMO.

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well they need to sort this issue out because it is far from the first time I've read stations not charging anywhere near their stated rate AND having multiple plugs "out of order". It would be infuriating if you're taking a road trip and you think you can stop for 45 minutes for a quick charge and are stuck for 2-3 hours.

Good thing gas stations always have perfectly functioning pumps that are never "out of order". Oh wait.

 

Point being, sometimes $h! happens.

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But they don't need the Tesla home charger- they can "charge it overnight and be full in the morning" out of a 110 outlet (don't all Teslas come with the adapter for that?). And they'll be "charging it every night to be topped off the next day". Or so I've been assured here.

But for some reason, on New Year's Day [almost everyone is off work / stores are mostly all closed], 7 local people (at the moment I spun by), were sitting at a Supercharger station for who knows what multiples of a half hour, getting kWs at double the rate as at home. I just don't get it.

Yeah- it a micro sample but I'm trying to make sense of it.

If it was evening hours, sure; you drove around during the day, your place of employment has no chargers, you sit at the Station for an hour to get ready for tomorrow. But on a day no one has to be anywhere... why get up, get dressed and drive to a commercial parking lot to pay double rates?

- - - - -
Yes, sometimes gas pumps are out-of-order; they are electrical/hydraulic/mechanical devices. But when many charging locations have 2 outlets, and one is busted AND you have to wait an hour for the guy at the other one to go... it's a far different scenario. At least by me, most gas stations have on the order of a dozen pumps, not 2, and fueling only takes a few minutes.

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21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But they don't need the Tesla home charger- they can "charge it overnight and be full in the morning" out of a 110 outlet (don't all Teslas come with the adapter for that?). And they'll be "charging it every night to be topped off the next day". Or so I've been assured here.

But for some reason, on New Year's Day [almost everyone is off work / stores are mostly all closed], 7 local people (at the moment I spun by), were sitting at a Supercharger station for who knows what multiples of a half hour, getting kWs at double the rate as at home. I just don't get it.

Yeah- it a micro sample but I'm trying to make sense of it.

If it was evening hours, sure; you drove around during the day, your place of employment has no chargers, you sit at the Station for an hour to get ready for tomorrow. But on a day no one has to be anywhere... why get up, get dressed and drive to a commercial parking lot to pay double rates?

- - - - -
Yes, sometimes gas pumps are out-of-order; they are electrical/hydraulic/mechanical devices. But when many charging locations have 2 outlets, and one is busted AND you have to wait an hour for the guy at the other one to go... it's a far different scenario. At least by me, most gas stations have on the order of a dozen pumps, not 2, and fueling only takes a few minutes.

Keep in mind that the preorders of Tesla 3 all included free charging. As such, while the auto's all come with a 110V wall plug charging cord, I would have to think that they are hung up on free power over convenience of charging over night and having a full battery in the morning. I also do know that some of my coworkers figure that since they can do email and slack or teams chat with coworkers via their phone, might as well use the Super Chargers to cover getting a battery pack charged while they also work via their smartphone.

But as @surreal1272 pointed out, way too small a pool of people to make an observation on without asking pointed questions.

@ccap41 Totally agree with you that while the chargers might have a stated rate, the installation might have not been in support of that rate and does need to be rectified. Also broken or out of order charging points need to be fixed ASAP.

Gassed up the SS at Costco and saw that they had 1 diesel and 3 regular / Premium pumps out of order. I asked the attendant and he said 2 had electrical issues with the interface, 3rd one was broken as the person filled up, then got in and drove away breaking the quick connect and still took the hose with them never realizing they never pulled the fuel hose. Diesel was broken as it would not pump so mechanical inside.

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1 hour ago, David said:

Keep in mind that the preorders of Tesla 3 all included free charging.

That’s a long while back, and was rescinded; it’s not a factor now.

How many pumps total at Costco? I believe mine can fuel 20 cars total at once.

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2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Good thing gas stations always have perfectly functioning pumps that are never "out of order". Oh wait.

 

Point being, sometimes $h! happens.

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

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2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

Then consider yourself lucky. Two gas stations near me (when I lived in Greensboro, NC) routinely were jacked up. Half the pumps were out and it seems like it was different set of pumps every week. It should be noted that I've seen this in Arizona too and in most cases, they were not the newest pumps. Nonetheless, they most certainly do exist.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

But they don't need the Tesla home charger- they can "charge it overnight and be full in the morning" out of a 110 outlet (don't all Teslas come with the adapter for that?). And they'll be "charging it every night to be topped off the next day". Or so I've been assured here.

But for some reason, on New Year's Day [almost everyone is off work / stores are mostly all closed], 7 local people (at the moment I spun by), were sitting at a Supercharger station for who knows what multiples of a half hour, getting kWs at double the rate as at home. I just don't get it.

Yeah- it a micro sample but I'm trying to make sense of it.

If it was evening hours, sure; you drove around during the day, your place of employment has no chargers, you sit at the Station for an hour to get ready for tomorrow. But on a day no one has to be anywhere... why get up, get dressed and drive to a commercial parking lot to pay double rates?

- - - - -
Yes, sometimes gas pumps are out-of-order; they are electrical/hydraulic/mechanical devices. But when many charging locations have 2 outlets, and one is busted AND you have to wait an hour for the guy at the other one to go... it's a far different scenario. At least by me, most gas stations have on the order of a dozen pumps, not 2, and fueling only takes a few minutes.

Again, ask those drivers before assuming intent and reason. It's that simple.

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47 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Then consider yourself lucky. Two gas stations near me (when I lived in Greensboro, NC) routinely were jacked up. Half the pumps were out and it seems like it was different set of pumps every week. It should be noted that I've seen this in Arizona too and in most cases, they were not the newest pumps. Nonetheless, they most certainly do exist.

WAAAY too small of a sample.

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

Plenty of times for me. 

Just two months ago to the place I go gas up.

The problem is that...there is no problem when a pump at a gas station goes poo poo.  There usually is another gas station right across the street with full functioning gas pumps.

 

 

with the continual poo pooing of EVs.  Trying to find the most trivial thing thinking that will deter what is the inevitable.

it is useless to resist it is your destiny - darth vader of the potatoes |  Meme Generator

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

When was the last time you went to a gas station and half of the pumps just didn't work? I've never encountered this in my life, yet. 

Easy today, the winter storm fried all the pumps at the Shell Station in my Neighborhood. All 12 pumps dead till further notice according to the sign. Yet when I ran to get the grocery shopping done for my senior parents at Fred Meyers which was out of power this morning also, the Tesla Super Charger station was fully functional this afternoon.

Dead Gas station

Working EV Station.

Goes both ways I know.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

That’s a long while back, and was rescinded; it’s not a factor now.

How many pumps total at Costco? I believe mine can fuel 20 cars total at once.

Still a factor as the pre-orders all came with 3yr free charging, which 3 years has not come up yet, so lots of peeps still using the free charging.

Yes as of today, Tesla has no free charging on any model they sell. Yet as sales dip, Tesla seems to throw this out as an incentive. Research shows the cheapest charging is home charging even with the cost of a 220V charger.

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^ Ugh. I suspect the continual shift to SUVs/CUVs is a prime driver here; they're always more expensive that the equivalent sedan.
I'd say BE's are a huge upward price wedge, but they don't sell nearly enough to even make the needle twitch.

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8 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Ugh. I suspect the continual shift to SUVs/CUVs is a prime driver here; they're always more expensive that the equivalent sedan.
I'd say BE's are a huge upward price wedge, but they don't sell nearly enough to even make the needle twitch.

This is the "price parity" we've been told would happen... ICE vehicle MSRP are inflated, then OEMs can point out to sheeple "SEE HOW AFFORDABLE EV ARE?  BUY ONE!"

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15 hours ago, David said:

Easy today, the winter storm fried all the pumps at the Shell Station in my Neighborhood. All 12 pumps dead till further notice according to the sign. Yet when I ran to get the grocery shopping done for my senior parents at Fred Meyers which was out of power this morning also, the Tesla Super Charger station was fully functional this afternoon.

That's not a comparable situation because 1. the entire station is out of order and 2. you would see this on your app if this was a charging station so you wouldn't be wasting your time hopping from charger to charger trying to find a working one. The issue is the user doesn't know the station doesn't have 100% working chargers until you try them out. 

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8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's not a comparable situation because 1. the entire station is out of order and 2. you would see this on your app if this was a charging station so you wouldn't be wasting your time hopping from charger to charger trying to find a working one. The issue is the user doesn't know the station doesn't have 100% working chargers until you try them out. 

The Jackson mart was still open for business with power. The pumps are down. This is a valid comparison as I have seen other gas stations that due to unknown reasons had no pumps working too and not weather related.

Here be it gas or ev stations, they seem to be updated on apps that show what is functional and the few times I have seen state run chargers that did not work, they were clearly noted both physically on the charging port and in apps. 

Maybe just a difference between the west coast which is far ahead of the rest of the nation and Washington state that mandates having this info current on apps for users.

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4 hours ago, David said:

The Jackson mart was still open for business with power. The pumps are down. This is a valid comparison as I have seen other gas stations that due to unknown reasons had no pumps working too and not weather related.

Here be it gas or ev stations, they seem to be updated on apps that show what is functional and the few times I have seen state run chargers that did not work, they were clearly noted both physically on the charging port and in apps. 

Maybe just a difference between the west coast which is far ahead of the rest of the nation and Washington state that mandates having this info current on apps for users.

Do some pumps pump at(hypothetical numbers here) 100 gallons per minutes, 30 gallons per minute, 85 gallons per minute, and 15 gallons per minute?

Apparently you having entire gas stations out of service is not "far ahead" of the rest of the country considering I have never stumbled upon such a scenario. 

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Me either, thru-out NJ and southern NY. Only have noticed a single out-of-order pump once every 5 or 7 years, it seems. It's more common I feel to see a pump that was obviously struck and inoperable, vs. just 'not working'. NJ is pretty on top of public stuff like this, in most cases. I believe they're near the top in road repair/maintenance per mile.

Seems WA needs some infrastructure upgrades!

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The state of New Jersey is responsible for the upkeep of privately owned gasoline stations? 

29 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Me either, thru-out NJ and southern NY. Only have noticed a single out-of-order pump once every 5 or 7 years, it seems. It's more common I feel to see a pump that was obviously struck and inoperable, vs. just 'not working'. NJ is pretty on top of public stuff like this, in most cases. I believe they're near the top in road repair/maintenance per mile.

Seems WA needs some infrastructure upgrades!

 

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No; of course not. But it seems to go hand-in-hand. Maybe. Sort of. I don't know. ;)
This state blows thru money like it's getting pumped into 10,000 giant incinerators, by the truckload, by the hour.

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Im confused.

What does the state of NJ and blowing a shyte ton of money have to do with privately owned gasoline stations in NJ being 100% fully functional and operational 100% of the time? 

I get you with the blowing of tax payers money as Quebec is not a stranger to that, but other than a Quebec provincial inspection from time to time to see that Quebec gasoline station owners do NOT screw the consumer over and  that the pumps and the pay meter are in sync, the government does not meddle.  Gas taxes and displacement taxes not withstanding. 

But I gotta admit, gasoline pumps in Montreal are pretty darned reliable.  I havent come across too many non-functional pumps. Maybe a dozen.  At the most. Its not as if the other pumps werent functional or available at that very station anyway...  

But to harp on charging stations for EVs is kinda stretching it.  

If an owner of a charging station operates with shytty and faulty chargers, HE is the one that WILL lose money in the end.  Its kinda like a monopoly now, I guess.  But a business opportunity to own and operate a shyte ton of these in the near future  is quite promising.   And when there is competition...

 

 

 

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