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Well...engineers and dreamers are the ones that drive his business.  Engineers for his tear downs that pay him to reverse engineer the details of a certain vehicle in his primary business and dreamers for his Autoline Detroit, Youtube channel and various blogs and vlogs fans he has got.

He will be doing a tear down on a Cybertruck just because he will be owning one. He is also being paid to do it. But his fans on his "internet/social media" exposure demanded the Rivian. 

Fans are dreamers and very much sooooo NOT the barometer of what WILL sell in the market place.  But...it also could be a taste of what may BE popular in the market place. And it seems to me that there is NO HUMMER buzz amongst the peeps. 2 Months in and it seems that HUMMER is not being talked about anybody.

Mention Tesla...and EVERYONE goes batshyte!   The Cybertruck had the internets blazing as SOON as Elon mentioned it.   GM mentioned the HUMMER and you could literally hear crickets over the internet.  It wasnt like that for the Corvette C8 though... 

 

Speaking of Sandy Munro.

Im watching this now...

 

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Haha, while ignoring the elephant in the room... CALIFORNIA... the biggest whiny brat in the union.

So, you're not wrong, but just wanted to zoom in a bit for more detail.... Storms do happen, no grid is ever 100%.  I lose power shockingly often for being only ~10 miles from a downtown metro ar

Trades have to pay to get listed, I think it was $750 for the first year, about $450 after that. This was about 5 or 6 years ago, when they tried to recruit me (called 6 or 8 times). The Better Busine

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2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Mention Tesla...and EVERYONE goes batshyte!   The Cybertruck had the internets blazing as SOON as Elon mentioned it.   GM mentioned the HUMMER and you could literally hear crickets over the internet

I observed it differently. Saw quite a bit of Hummer coverage; yes- not as much as the cybertruck... but I think the Hummer significantly eclipses the cybertruck in actuality. We’ll see once the production & price of both happens- I think the Hummer is excellently positioned to pull off another ‘Escalade event’.

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One main thing here though, the Hummer is real and if that wasn't 100% production ready(that was shown) it is very close. The Cybertruck was miles from being street legal when it was showed so we don't even know what a Cybertruck really is yet. 

Edited by ccap41
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15 hours ago, balthazar said:

This sounds like a wackadoodle conspiracy theory.

The exhaust is not pumped into the interiors of the bus / children are not dropping dead from riding a school bus.

This is NOT a Conspiracy Theory, the Diesel exhaust have been known to leak into the school buses.

Children are not dropping dead, but they are breathing fumes that are pretty high levels and is not healthy.

Plenty of studies that show the dangers on School buses from colleges and other science sources. You can believe what you want, but the way school buses are built, cheap and very uninsulated and loose, we now have the science that proves how toxic they are to our kids.

04.04.2005 - More exhaust inhaled by kids inside school buses than by others in the area, says study (berkeley.edu)

School Bus Fumes - Science Updates - Science NetLinks

More Exhaust Inhaled By Kids Inside School Buses Than By Others In The Area, Says Study -- ScienceDaily

Study from 2001 that has been pounding on the importance to move away form diesel school buses due to the toxic nature.

The Long Road to Safer School Buses | NRDC

"Diesel Exhaust and School Bus Idling (EPA-420-F-03-021, June 2003)"

All About School Bus Exhaust Leaks | Mechanics Hub

Children's School Bus Exposure and Mitigation Studies | California Air Resources Board

There are so many more studies from across the US, Canada and Europe that proves how toxic the bus fumes are inside the bus and why Schools should have been moving away from Diesel decades ago or at least demanding better built buses that do not leak inside.

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I remember riding school buses 35 years ago that were diesel...loud, slow, stinky...didn't have A/C either, so had to ride w/ windows open in the S Florida heat.

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3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I remember riding school buses 35 years ago that were diesel...loud, slow, stinky...didn't have A/C either, so had to ride w/ windows open in the S Florida heat.

Public Transit buses seem to be just as stinky if they are older ones. Never a fan of the Diesel bus, yet I acknowledge the need for public transit and school buses. We just need to move to cleaner safer buses over todays dinosaur model.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I observed it differently. Saw quite a bit of Hummer coverage; yes- not as much as the cybertruck... but I think the Hummer significantly eclipses the cybertruck in actuality. We’ll see once the production & price of both happens- I think the Hummer is excellently positioned to pull off another ‘Escalade event’.

Elon knows how to throw a party.  And when he does, the world invites itself to the festivities.  GM had that after the war and well into the '60s.  GM still has it, but for certain vehicles only.  

But I do agree that the Cybertruck is a clown show.  I do think it will look like that as Tesla has many deposits for that exact Cybertruck. He cant go back on it now. Tesla will lose too much credibility if they change up the looks of it now.  If  When the initial sales dwindle to nothing, Elon WILL change it. He said so. 

The HUMMER promises to be an EXCELLENT EV. What GM has been giving out as info over their EV tech, it promises to be on par or greater than what Tesla has got going on. The only thing is that Tesla's tech is improving too so when the HUMMER and the Lyriq come out, Tesla wont be where they are at now. But I think GM knows this as GM has been in this type of "warfare" for over 100 years.  GM EV R&D has been 100% full throttle for 3 years now. People tend to forget that. INCLUDING Sandy Munro.   But that just proves ME right when I say shyte like if it aint a Tesla EV...

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The only think I heard RE the cybertruck reveal was the laughter at the absurd failure of the 'baseball proof' side glass.

It the Tesla truck looked like the Lordstown truck, the attention would've been 25% of what it was. It gained attention not for any "reinvention" of a pickup, but for looking like it was spray-painted cardboard art project. The bashing memes numbered in the hundreds.

As for losing credibility- he reversed on the Model 3 being $35K... EVER SINCE unit 1 sold. The risk of the truck is it's so un-user friendly as a truck that he HAS to revise it.

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This is why some people question the 'butterfly net' of "it's science", and where critical thinking becomes instrumental. Remember: science is never 'settled'.
 

Screen Shot 2021-01-26 at 1.56.30 PM.png

Edited by balthazar
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27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

This is why some people question the 'butterfly net' of "it's science", and where critical thinking becomes instrumental.

Screen Shot 2021-01-26 at 1.56.30 PM.png

No...

These are just EXCUSES from people closing their eyes and shutting theirs ears.  

Take example #1:

Same as air inside as the outside.

So...diesels emit a certain emission and when a diesel bus drives along a certain path, the air is the same inside the bus as it is outside IMMEDIATELY where it passes...

Does THAT mean there is NO pollution?  Like at all?  The POLLUTUED air outside is the same inside the bus so THAT makes it OK to continue to pollute?

 

Quote

 

"In comparison, a city of 1 million people will inhale about 12 grams per million grams of exhaust emitted," said Marshall. "In a single day, a child riding a school bus will breathe in anywhere from 7 to 70 times more exhaust from that bus than a typical L.A. resident will inhale from all school bus emissions in the area."

 

Yet despite the findings, the researchers said that riding school buses is still safer than being driven to school in passenger vehicles and that parents shouldn't yank their kids from bus ridership.

"School buses are built like a tank, and the chances of children getting killed or seriously injured from a traffic accident in a private passenger vehicle are significantly greater than if they are on a bus," said Marshall.

 

 

 

Of course there is pollution!

LAST link recommendations:

 

 

Quote

 

Recommendations from this Report 

  • Reduce school bus-related exposures by assigning the newest and cleanest buses to the longest routes.
  • Avoid caravanning of buses through staggered departure times.
  • Replace conventional (uncontrolled) diesel school buses with natural gas-powered or particulate trap-equipped buses.
  • Maintain diesel school buses to reduce visible exhaust.

 

 

 

Well...MY critical thinking tells ME:

MONEY is the SOLE reason as to why NOTHING is BEING made for change...

We are ALWAYS putting MONEY in front of HEALTH. 

MONEY is the SOLE driver...

Dirty dirty money.  And we IGNORE  how dirty dirty dirty diesel is...

Even when DAMNING reports are THERE...we CAREFULLY word things that its "safer" to 'NOT use passenger cars for transport because accidents' and 'MAINTAIN diesel buses to reduce...'

NOTHING to do with how harmful diesels are and how we should avoid using diesels but DEFLECTING the issues by mentioning traffic accidents that have NOTHING to do with diesel emissions  and maintenance as as somehow maintenance is the KEY to reducing harmful emissions.   ALL maintenance does is NOT increase the emissions due to broken down mechanicals but the harmful emissions are STILL present with perfectly fine mechanicals...

But yeah...critical thinking... 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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6 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now...let's hope that the EV public will accept it. 

There are several things that are against it and it isnt even out yet.

1. Its NOT a Tesla  

2. Because its a GM product and NOT a Tesla

3. Its name is HUMMER. 20 years ago, It quickly went from a stud to a dud BECAUSE green people shunned it for being a gas guzzling SUV.  We do not know if GM/GMC and/or HUMMER shook that stigma off, even if it IS 20 years ago in the past...

4. We already know that there are some ICE people that will hate on EVs no matter what...so this EV HUMMER cant even rely on the macho-ness of the big, brutish V8 SUV crowd...  Like you have implied with Cadillac going all in with EVs but Chevy will continue on selling V8s and ICEs...   The big brutish SUV crowd will just ignore this and go on and buy Yukons, Tahoes and TRX's from Dodge... 

 

 

5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Oh...I agree 100 and 10 percent!

But as it is now...I am perhaps reading too much into the situation...BUT...

When Sandy Munro was discussing on Autoline Afterhours that his next tear up vehicle for analysis would be the Rivian, he explained that he went to his viewers and followers on-line to ask what vehicle THEY want to see to be reviewed. 

HIS viewers made an almost unanimous decision to choose Rivian and hence his next subject.

HUMMER, CYbertruck among others were choices...but as HE said, NOBODY chose the HUMMER. OK...the Cybertruck also had few votes...kinda proving your point about Tesla.  BUT...also kinda proving MY point about HUMMER. 

Maybe my #1 point is not all that accurate as to say that Telsa is infallible. And my #2 point is also less than accurate about Tesla too...however, HUMMER may NOT be such a hot commodity JUST because its a GM product and its name IS HUMMER...

GM marketing has to work crazy overtime hours to make this a hit BEFORE it hits the showrooms. Its BEHIND the 8 ball as we speak. 

PS: I am NOT doubting the capabilities of the HUMMER. Just the star power of it and the lack thereof. 

 

Just the name, performance and still having off road capability will sell most buyers on it, as long as they have deep pockets. The only real fallback it will have is the $79,995 starting price and the first ones out the gate are supposed to be around $112k, but the last somewhat comparable H2 SUT aka H2T's were around $65k when new back in 2010 without all the high tech. gadgetry. Comparable to Rivian starting prices for more truck and more electrons available. 

 

Gallery For > Lifted Hummer Sut | HUMMERS I LIKE ...

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52 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

So...diesels emit a certain emission and when a diesel bus drives along a certain path, the air is the same inside the bus as it is outside IMMEDIATELY where it passes...

That’s not what the link stated. It said ‘the rest of urban inhabitants’; there’s was no data that says ‘immediately outside the bus only’. Emissions in general in urban areas is relatively bad vs. rural areas. To me that means that the same ‘polluted’ urban air is going to go right into a quarter million dollar BE bus interior. 

Of course money figures into 99.99% of things. Because everybody that does anything needs to be paid (outside of a handful of independently wealthy.) Otherwise, wouldn’t there be zero commentary on the cost of health? BAN COST RESTRAINTS! EVERYBODY GETS 50 MILLION DOLLAR HEALTH BANK ACCOUNTS! 

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6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That’s not what the link stated. It said ‘the rest of urban inhabitants’; there’s was no data that says ‘immediately outside the bus only’. Emissions in general in urban areas is relatively bad vs. rural areas. To me that means that the same ‘polluted’ urban air is going to go right into a quarter million dollar BE bus interior.  

It's not just urban areas, though..those diesel buses are running out in suburbia also...

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1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

 ALL maintenance does is NOT increase the emissions due to broken down mechanicals but the harmful emissions are STILL present with perfectly fine mechanicals...

Per the one article, maintenance prevents emissions from exiting the exhaust system before the terminus of said system, putting it to the extreme rear of the vehicle vs. possibly leaking inside. But the consensus seemed to be about idling, not so much driving. 

Multiple links stated the focus was particulate matter and how filters significantly reduced that. So; room for significant improvement within the current system, not that it was at it’s zenith.
I was amazed to read one reference to a bus in service from 1975. Most of what I’ve read about the busing industry stated school districts have strict ‘term limits’ on active bus life.
I never rode on anything close to a 45-yr old bus going to school. I don’t think I was even on a 15-yr old bus.

4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It's not just urban areas, though..those diesel buses are running out in suburbia also...

Of course they are, but there the surrounding atmosphere isn’t already contaminated with numerous other ‘urban’ emission sources. IE; in cities it’s certainly not only buses causing emissions, and in rural areas the air quality inside IC buses is probably significantly better.

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7 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now...let's hope that the EV public will accept it. 

There are several things that are against it and it isnt even out yet.

1. Its NOT a Tesla  

2. Because its a GM product and NOT a Tesla

3. Its name is HUMMER. 20 years ago, It quickly went from a stud to a dud BECAUSE green people shunned it for being a gas guzzling SUV.  We do not know if GM/GMC and/or HUMMER shook that stigma off, even if it IS 20 years ago in the past...

4. We already know that there are some ICE people that will hate on EVs no matter what...so this EV HUMMER cant even rely on the macho-ness of the big, brutish V8 SUV crowd...  Like you have implied with Cadillac going all in with EVs but Chevy will continue on selling V8s and ICEs...   The big brutish SUV crowd will just ignore this and go on and buy Yukons, Tahoes and TRX's from Dodge... 

 

Can't wait to see the hardcore Prius owners heads explode from overthinking the Hummer name and EV together as one. 🤪🤯:roflmao:

Like I previously stated, GM (and other manf's) will still build the high profit vehicles that sell really well in North America for decades to come...fullsize ICE BOF pickup trucks and SUV's, but will start to offer a BEV truck based on this HummerEV as well. 

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1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Can't wait to see the hardcore Prius owners heads explode from overthinking the Hummer name and EV together as one. 🤪🤯:roflmao:

Despite our...um...slight differences in poli 

I sure phoquing agree with THAT statement!!!  

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@balthazar

Im thinking about ways to rebuttal.  Thanx for giving me one.  All of a sudden, my brain has gone mush and Im not accessing the necessary smarts needed to  give you a proper discussion.  Give me some time.    

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No problemo, mi amigo; take all the time you wish.

- - - - -
Bored here, may make a run to the one local junkyard left tomorrow. I almost always strike out there, and their inventory sucks, but their prices are fantastic & I want to get out.
On my 'shelves of raw materials' I found a square of 1/4-in thick closed cell foam. Took me a while but I remembered it came out of our '03 GP as a battery insulation wrap. I need to make some B-59 tail light gaskets- and I can't find stuff like this local / I don't want to spend $45 to buy a whole roll online. Maybe I can find some there.

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GM and Navistar are getting in bed together to build 2,000 Class 8 Semi Trucks.

This will create additional jobs as GM ramps up production. GM has also stated that the HydroTEC Fuel Cell Power Cubes are a perfect fit for use in a wide range of applications from Marine to earth-moving and mining equipment as well as Locomotives and power generators.

The current Power Cell is good for 500 miles of heavy load use with a refueling time of 15 minutes. This allows for the use in both short and long haul applications.

GM states they will have additional announcements coming.

image.png

 

GM to Supply Navistar With Hydrotec Fuel Cell Power Cubes for Electric Vehicles 

UPDATE - Forbes has a story too, this will not affect the arrangement to supply Power Cell Cubes and motors to Nikola for their Hydrogen truck.

Hydrogen Truck Convoy: GM, Navistar Form Fuel Cell Alliance (forbes.com)

Navistar has recently undergone a restructuring and is focusing on becoming a global leader in Hydrogen and EV based commercial trucks.

The Hydrogen Class 8 Semi trucks will go on sale as a 2024 model in 2023. Currently they are rebuilding an existing Diesel assembly line into a Hydrogen truck assembly line and will move forward with in depth testing of the production mules using the GM Fuel Cell.

Navistar Collaborates with General Motors And OneH2 To Launch Hydrogen Truck Ecosystem - Jan 27, 2021

To quote Navistar News Release:
 

Under its partnership agreement with Navistar, OneH2 will supply its hydrogen fueling solution, which includes hydrogen production, storage, delivery and safety. In addition, Navistar is taking a minority stake in OneH2. Through its affiliates, OneH2 plans to kickstart substantial hydrogen heavy truck refueling infrastructure by incorporating more than 2,000 International® RH Series FCEVs into existing truck fleets in the near term.

 

"We're excited about the opportunity to partner with Navistar," said Paul Dawson, OneH2 president and CEO. "We believe strongly that hydrogen fuel is the future of zero- emission renewable energy in the heavy truck market, and are pleased that this agreement will provide additional scope for its application. Under this agreement, we will be able to offer fleets a zero-emission truck with total cost of operation lower than diesel in key segments of the industry."

 

These newly announced collaborations with General Motors and OneH2 represent important milestones in Navistar's phased development of hydrogen fuel cell solutions. These technologies leverage Navistar's battery electric vehicle platforms and provide the customer with a single-source, fully integrated zero-emission solution that includes vehicles, fueling and service.

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I am NOT Going Political, focus on the Auto portion of this please.

The Biden administration made a Major change this week on Monday to the Buy America executive order. Something no other president has done to date, in fact this portion has not changed since 1954 which is what Defines Goods and Services. Auto's MUST have a minimum of 50% of the auto components made in America from the raw materials to the final component. 

President Biden via executive order has laid out a long term plan to replace all 645,000 federal vehicles with net-zero emission auto's Made in the USA!

Components must be a minimum of 50% from raw material to final assembled component made in the US and the auto must be assembled in the US. This is open to all auto companies from around the world, but must adhere to the Made in the USA requirements.

The executive order points to replacing existing federal trucks with electric from Ford, Rivian, Tesla and GM.

One question that is unanswered is how Canada will fit into this equation since GM has committed to the city and unions in changing over this year the plant that builds the Chevrolet Equinox to be the assembly point for BrightDrop EV600 delivery van. The federal government does have a large Van pool that is used to move packages and mail between the various federal buildings especially in DC.

To clarify this executive order will now require the Window sticker on vehicles using the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) which places a greater mathematical weight on the domestic content calculation on components that are more expensive and labor-intensive in being required to be followed. Currently the AALA shows that the Tesla Model S and Model 3 have the highest Domestic content under tally.

This will also help to clarify where the auto is made and just how much is truly built in North America / USA.

To clarify, this also will include the 173,000 military vehicles which GM has submitted a Hydrogen solution on their mid size trucks that has been posted here in the past. This also will cover and defines the 225,000 USPS vehicles. Currently just the USPS and Military consume 375 million gallons of gas and Diesel a year at an annual fuel cost of $4.4 Billion dollars.

According to one estimate from the government GSA or General Services Administration, this will cost about $20 billion to replace the vehicles.

One interesting note is the average age of the USPS delivery auto is 28 years old. GSA has stated this is a long over due update to the USPS that will enhance tax payer cost savings in the long run. Current USPS delivery auto's have no airbags, no anti-lock brakes and no air conditioning in addition to many things that are no longer used by any other auto's in the industry driving up maintenance costs to be higher than any other federal auto maintenance program.

American-made and all-electric: Biden plots out the future for the federal vehicle fleet (greencarreports.com)

Charged EVs | President Biden announces plan to update federal vehicle fleet with US-made EVs - Charged EVs

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56 minutes ago, David said:

...replace all 645,000 federal vehicles...

According to one estimate from the government GSA or General Services Administration, this will cost about $20 billion to replace the vehicles.

$20,000,000,000 / 645,000 = $31,007 per vehicle. 😆

No WAY that's close to being accurate. That's less than the smallest/cheapest BE retail (leaf), and the fleet includes medium & HD trucks, ambulances, etc. I realize there's fleet pricing, but c'mon. I think $50 billion is at least closer to reality.

Going to have to slot this under 'Gov't misinformation'.

Of course the major issue with this EO is that no existing vehicles fit the mandated conditions to purchase or more commonly; do not exist, period.

26 minutes ago, David said:

Global EV sales in 2020 3.2 million sales.

RIght about 4.75% of the global market.

SURGING.

Edited by balthazar
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