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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

This seems like something that could or would benefit nearly everybody. It seems like a fantastic idea and I'm pretty surprised it is just now being "invented" or maybe just not being executed. 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/wheeltug-airplane-taxi-motor-ev-technology/

" With a novel electric AC induction motor driving a plane's nose-gear wheels, considerable time can be saved during pushback, taxiing, and even passenger loading. And here's the hook that for electric cars or trucks: the motor's unique design can deliver enough torque to get a 200,000-lbs aircraft rolling while providing light weight and high performance at higher taxiing speeds. In essence, it emulates a gearless "virtual transmission."

 

The motor's innovative winding allows its controller to vary the number of phases, magnetic poles, and alternating current frequency—for example, from the typical AC three-phase, to as many as 12 or 18. This allows it to efficiently deliver the torque of a DC permanent magnet motor while providing the lighter weight, lower cost, and improved performance of an AC-induction motor at higher operating speeds.

Flying Hybrids Mean Big Savings

If this all rings a faint bell among our longtime readers, that's because we covered the technology in a November, 2008 Technologue column titled "Flying Hybrids!" The "mesh-connected windings" and "fundamental harmonics" at play in this motor were developed by Gibraltar-based Chorus Motors, which has been patiently working to commercialize the technology via its subsidiary WheelTug since well before that 2008 column. Company CEO Isaiah Cox is now reasonably certain final flight certification will be granted by the end of 2021, with new production and retrofit installations beginning in early 2022. A grand demonstration is scheduled at the Memphis International Airport in mid-September.

WheelTug has been demonstrated on airplanes large (Boeing 767) and small (737), with electricity always coming from the standard auxiliary power unit (no batteries need be added). Now the company is targeting shorter-haul narrow-body aircraft like the 737 and Airbus A320. Here's how WheelTug promises to save fuel and time on a typical flight:

 
 
  • Eliminate the wait for "wing-walkers" and a tug operator to arrive, connect the tug to the nose gear, attach the communications link, and push back.
  • Eliminate the time to disconnect the above and clear ramp personnel and vehicles from the area.
  • Begin taxiing immediately, with no need to hold for jet-blast reasons.
  • Start engines only in time to warm them before takeoff.
  • Land and almost immediately shut off the engines, allowing them (and the brakes) to cool en route to the gate so that ground crew can begin servicing/collecting luggage immediately upon arrival.
  • Taxi right up to the gate, with no need for tow-in.

WheelTug pegs the average fuel savings at 36 gallons per flight and a time savings at 8.5 minutes in push-back alone, but more important is the higher predictability of all the time spent on the ground. Today push-back takes 13 minutes or more on two percent of flights, so total scheduled flight time must "bake in" extra time to preserve the airline's "on-time" reputation. (Note that time spent with engines idling during de-icing procedures aren't included in these estimates.)

To these, WheelTug forecasts further savings of $100 per flight for push-back fees and $95 in engine wear, while greatly reducing the opportunity for foreign-object damage from detritus sucked in off the runway and collisions caused by tug operators (aircraft movement is still directed from a tower, but the pilot remains in control while monitoring cameras views that afford complete situational awareness). And planes able to push back and taxi themselves will lose far less time "recovering" from weather delays that place a high demand on a limited number of tug vehicles and ramp personnel. "

Interesting article. It's not that this technology needed to be invented, the concept has been around since the 60's. It's just that no one had been able to make a business case for it (i.e. how much more efficient or powerful or light would introducing more phases make it cost effective?).  I can see multi-phase motors being a thing on planes, but I don't see a need to go to 12 or 18 in cars. Tesla has already shown that more power isn't an issue, so it would either be to be more efficient or lighter. 

That said, there are only incremental improvements to be made. Tesla might be able to get 5% more range by making a physically smaller motor more powerful and therefore weigh less. Having the motor virtually "shift" through 18 phases just to get up to 60 mph and back to zero probably isn't practical from a complexity standpoint. If I were to guess, 6 phases would be the most.

Three phase electric motors have been around forever.  The Volt has one, I believe (but cannot find proof for sure) that the Bolt has one. Telsas are all 3 phase (but the dual motor ones are different sizes, so there are effectively 6-phases in the car and the car can switch front to rear and back as needed).  So this technology is the EV equivalent of adding more gears to the transmission. 

In this video, you can hear the first 2 phases of a 3 phase motor accelerating. The third phase you'll never hear the switch because you're doing about 100mph at the time.

 

This is a later EuroSprinter with multi-phase motors.  They sound like a saxophone playing up the scale.

 

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Lucid Air Reveal Video off You Tube.

Some vary cool images showing their power train system and other details. Very cool stuff. They have truly stepped up from Tesla on what they are building. Some cool auto's coming and eventually the tech will trickle down to lower end models too I believe.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/10/lucid-air-three-motor-horsepower/#slide-2262821

Amazing that each of their motors can produce up to 670HP / 2950 lb-ft of torque and each motor only weights 161 lbs. 

No ICE can touch this.

More details on the Lucid SUV and it clearly will have the same motors for HP/Torque that the Air sedan will have. Very cool tech.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/09/lucid-motors-suv-electric-teaser-photos/#slide-2262272

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Hey! looks decent (if offbeat), range is very good, charge times are excellent- HURAH... well don—


ohshit, it's $170,000.

 

fckitnevrmnd.

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On 9/9/2020 at 7:34 AM, ykX said:

What bugs me the most as an engineer, as all these companies use Nicola Tesla name for their EVs, but he was a big proponent of AC current and designed AC motor, not DC batteries and DC motors they are using.  I don't think any of his ideas has to do anything with EV cars or trucks.

It's a mix of AC and DC motors in BEV's, Tesla and GM use both, sometimes at the same time. 3-Phase AC Induction traction motors are lighter, but more expensive (due to the large copper windings) and are better for high performance cars because they operate more smoothly than the brushless DC Permanent Magnet motors, but AC-I are generally less efficient than DC-PM.

The GM EV-1 had 3-Phase AC Induction motors and the Chevy Volt had 3-P AC-I motors as well, but the Chevy Bolt uses a permanent magnet synchronous motor (PMSM) that's similar to a brushless DC Permanent Magnet motor. GM BEV3 (Cadillac Lyriq, Celestiq, next gen. Bolt and others) and GM BT1XX (GMC Hummer EV, Silverado EV and others) off the T1XX are going even further so should be interesting. This is why GM expanded the interior dimensions of the bed walls of the T1XX trucks, you can see where they made room for the Ultium battery packs in future BT1XX trucks. 

Tesla actually uses both AC and DC in the "D" dual motor cars. They use what they call the "permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor" (PMSRM) also similar to DC Perm. Mag. Model S and X use 3-P AC-I in the rear and PMSRM in the front on "D" models, but the Model 3 uses 3-P AC-I in the front and PMSRM in the rear. DC-PM motors generally produce more torque but are heavier, so it has to do with weight distribution as well.

All batteries are DC (Direct Current) that will never change.

 

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2016-01-1228/

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-platforms/bev3/

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-platforms/bt1/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/motor-technology-from-model-3-helps-tesla-boost-model-s-range-10/

 

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VW is not trying to hid the ID-6 or what is called the RoomZZ which is based on the ID Buzz concept minivan. VW is pushing ahead very fast to get their EV's out to the public for sale.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/08/vw-id-6-roomzz-spy-photos/#slide-2262123

Maserati is showing off their new module platform that will support their new EV product line as they sell existing ICE auto's but move over to performance / Luxury EV auto's. Maserati has already stated their EV's will be far more powerful than any ICE auto they have built and sold.

Maserati is very happy to state that this new modular platform was created to support both ICE and EV auto's. They will continue to sell the new auto's with their existing ICE power train line as they build out their EV portfolio. This allows Maserati to sell to everyone till the time comes in the next decade and folks focus just on EV's.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/10/maserati-mc20-electric-model-2023/

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So recent reports are focusing on where EV class 8 and EV medium duty trucks can have the biggest affect in helping to clean air, reduce CO2 creation, etc.

  • Northern & Southern California
  • Texas Triangle
  • Cascadia - PNW
  • Rocky Mountain Front Range
  • The Northeast

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/new-report-identifies-high-priority-regions-for-electrifying-trucks/

VW has confirmed that the ID-4 CUV that the US will get will have a trailering option and that weight is 4,200 lbs. Equal to and in some cases exceeds CUV's in this size class.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/vws-id-4-electric-suv-will-have-towing-capability-elon-musk-drives-an-id-3-calls-it-pretty-good/

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General Motors’ Future Electric Vehicles to Debut Industry’s First Wireless Battery Management System

Technology developed in collaboration with Analog Devices, Inc.

GM has released more information on their EV's and how they will get to market faster. GM in development with Analog Devices company have developed a wireless management system that will allow a complete management of the battery system for all EV's GM builds. The benefit here is that it reduces complexity and speeds up time to market by allowing a common set of components across multiple vehicles. Scalability and complexity reduction are the focus of the Ultium batteries and EV's. This same wireless system also allows a secondary use for the batteries later in life.

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/sep/0909-wbms.html

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India one of the worst countries for air quality has seen it improve lately due to the pandemic lock down. Yet as things open up, the amount of 2 stroke auto's pushing out clouds of smoke imply that the air will become choked again. As such the country ruling government is looking for ways to clean things up. That way is EV's in how they have aggressively dictated and are pushing people to buy EV's. This brings up another problem, EV charging. In India the bulk of Gas stations are State owned, as such, India is discussing mandating all gas stations to install high speed recharging islands.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129531_report-india-might-mandate-ev-chargers-at-69-000-state-owned-gas-stations

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3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That VW looks as awkwardly shaped as a Bolt. 👎🏼

I would agree, not the best looking Minivan I have seen. I am honestly surprised that they did not stick to the Buzz concept as that seemed to have garnered rave reviews all over the glob. 

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2 hours ago, David said:

all over the glob

:roflmao:

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3 hours ago, David said:

India one of the worst countries for air quality has seen it improve lately due to the pandemic lock down. Yet as things open up, the amount of 2 stroke auto's pushing out clouds of smoke imply that the air will become choked again. As such the country ruling government is looking for ways to clean things up. That way is EV's in how they have aggressively dictated and are pushing people to buy EV's. This brings up another problem, EV charging. In India the bulk of Gas stations are State owned, as such, India is discussing mandating all gas stations to install high speed recharging islands.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129531_report-india-might-mandate-ev-chargers-at-69-000-state-owned-gas-stations

Ending ICE sales in India by 2030 is never going to happen, solid ambition though. India's lack of a decent electrical grid with constant power outages would be a huge problem with several different union and state owned supply grids that don't meet the high demand requirements for 69k more Commercial EVSE stations. Even large cities like Mumbai don't have a way to supply the necessary infrastructure that they would need to end ICE sales. Grid issues in India have been going on for years and I don't see much that has changed today.

Edited by USA-1
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45 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Ending ICE sales in India by 2030 is never going to happen, solid ambition though. India's lack of a decent electrical grid with constant power outages would be a huge problem with several different union and state owned supply grids that don't meet the high demand requirements for 69k more Commercial EVSE stations. Even large cities like Mumbai don't have a way to supply the necessary infrastructure that they would need to end ICE sales. Grid issues in India have been going on for years and I don't see much that has changed today.

Totally agree, our Dell office there that I had been to many times has a very solid multiple redundancies backup generators due to the poor power grid.

Gonna be interesting to see how they address this over the next 10 years.

Course with India looking to surpass the US in deaths and infections from Covid-19, part of the pressure could be due to population reduction which is sad in it's own right. Wish they would focus on getting their act together. Course I would say that about many countries including our own for better infrastructure.

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Very obvious why Nikola needs GM as a partner for their new Ultium battery packs coming out on BEV3 and BT1XX...

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Interesting choice to go with only 5 lugs.

Still no ordering yet, only 'pre-ordering'.

Edited by balthazar

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57 minutes ago, David said:

So when do they technically go on sale, now? 

Just now, balthazar said:

Interesting choice to go with only 5 lugs.

Why? Isn't it a mix/hybrid of mid-size and half ton? 

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5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Why? Isn't it a mix/hybrid of mid-size and half ton? 

The competition (half-ton trucks) have all upgraded to 6 lug... a few generations ago now. 3/4-ton is 8-lug.

IDK what the weight category the R1T is going into...

Edited by balthazar

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Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

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@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

30 minutes ago, ykX said:

Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

Mitsubishi built millions of auto's on that assembly line. Rivian has stated that they will start off slow to insure quality over quantity and speed things up as they get everyone trained.

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3 hours ago, David said:

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

So the photo doesn't show production vehicles, but pre-production. Otherwise, how would pre-order people get to customize their truck if it's already built? So true production is at least a quarter away from now.

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5 hours ago, ykX said:

Doesn't look like a very fast assembly line ...

No need

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^ high speed assembly line for a brand new $70K trucklette? Ocnblu is correct, sales are going to be a slim fraction of its competition. Only EV line moving at any speed of note is the Model 3.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ high speed assembly line for a brand new $70K trucklette? Ocnblu is correct, sales are going to be a slim fraction of its competition. Only EV line moving at any speed of note is the Model 3.

Using the Model 3 as an example of speedy production is a poor poor choice given the massive production issues and reliability issues that have dogged them since. 

Edited by surreal1272
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I said 'speedy'; I didn't say 'good'. ;)

JUST saw an article stating Model Y owners are finding composite lumber and zip ties under the front cargo area insert. Tesla- 12 years and still learning how to slip-slap cars together.

Edited by balthazar
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Thoughtful. 

On 9/11/2020 at 2:05 PM, David said:

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

Mitsubishi built millions of auto's on that assembly line. Rivian has stated that they will start off slow to insure quality over quantity and speed things up as they get everyone trained.

They need to build a midsize truck and get it into production so they can ahve the bugs worked out when i get the Ranger paid off. 

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

I said 'speedy'; I didn't say 'good'. ;)

JUST saw an article stating Model Y owners are finding composite lumber and zip ties under the front cargo area insert. Tesla- 12 years and still learning how to slip-slap cars together.

I can do all kinds of things with lumber, for the woodworkers here this might be a feature rather than a fault...

(sarcasm)

On 9/11/2020 at 7:24 PM, ocnblu said:

No need

Delorean converted into a back to the future time machine so you can get that 52 Chevy with the inline 235 and single barrel carb....brand new!

On 9/11/2020 at 2:24 PM, USA-1 said:

Yeah, the guys are trying to figure out where the extra bolts go that they have :scratchchin::roflmao:

Love, love love my new ranger, but found a few random bolts in it...I think I found them!

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21 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ high speed assembly line for a brand new $70K trucklette? Ocnblu is correct, sales are going to be a slim fraction of its competition. Only EV line moving at any speed of note is the Model 3.

And the model 3 is still better built than the crappy Mitsubishi products, the crappy Nissan products, the dated Toyota products, the bland Honda products (except for the Civic Type R which is lustworthy...)...the GM products with the crappy unreliable 3.6 V6, the marginal Ecosport which is uninspiring, damn near every vehicle built in that maintenance and reliability hellhole which is modern European cars. Let's keep things in perspective. 

On 9/11/2020 at 2:05 PM, David said:

@ccap41 According Rivian, Jan 2021 is when existing pre-order customers will get access to customize their R1T for building and delivery. 60 to 90 days after that, the sales will open up to everyone who is not a pre-order customer.

Mitsubishi built millions of auto's on that assembly line. Rivian has stated that they will start off slow to insure quality over quantity and speed things up as they get everyone trained.

Good, love trucks, looking forward to seeing these on the road!

 

On 9/10/2020 at 12:38 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Interesting article. It's not that this technology needed to be invented, the concept has been around since the 60's. It's just that no one had been able to make a business case for it (i.e. how much more efficient or powerful or light would introducing more phases make it cost effective?).  I can see multi-phase motors being a thing on planes, but I don't see a need to go to 12 or 18 in cars. Tesla has already shown that more power isn't an issue, so it would either be to be more efficient or lighter. 

That said, there are only incremental improvements to be made. Tesla might be able to get 5% more range by making a physically smaller motor more powerful and therefore weigh less. Having the motor virtually "shift" through 18 phases just to get up to 60 mph and back to zero probably isn't practical from a complexity standpoint. If I were to guess, 6 phases would be the most.

Three phase electric motors have been around forever.  The Volt has one, I believe (but cannot find proof for sure) that the Bolt has one. Telsas are all 3 phase (but the dual motor ones are different sizes, so there are effectively 6-phases in the car and the car can switch front to rear and back as needed).  So this technology is the EV equivalent of adding more gears to the transmission. 

In this video, you can hear the first 2 phases of a 3 phase motor accelerating. The third phase you'll never hear the switch because you're doing about 100mph at the time.

 

This is a later EuroSprinter with multi-phase motors.  They sound like a saxophone playing up the scale.

 

Three pahse motors run forever....I ahve a 1944 Whitney 177 Table saw that ahs had several million board feet of lumber run through it, came out of a west virginia lumber dimensioning plant. Original motor runs like new. 76 years in. 

Lots of buildings I take care of have 3 phase motors from the 40's, 50's, and 60's that ahve been running continuously for decades. 

How many 1960 automobiles are elft on the road in daily use?

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5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Delorean converted into a back to the future time machine so you can get that 52 Chevy with the inline 235 and single barrel carb....brand new!

❤️

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On 9/12/2020 at 5:50 PM, balthazar said:

I said 'speedy'; I didn't say 'good'. ;)

JUST saw an article stating Model Y owners are finding composite lumber and zip ties under the front cargo area insert. Tesla- 12 years and still learning how to slip-slap cars together.

Well then it seems like to me that Rivian is more concerned with putting out a quality product and not a sub-quality product by having “speedy” production. Quality over quantity. I’m not really sure how you make this out to be a negative somehow. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 10:30 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

And the model 3 is still better built than the crappy Mitsubishi products, the crappy Nissan products, the dated Toyota products, the bland Honda products (except for the Civic Type R which is lustworthy...)...the GM products with the crappy unreliable 3.6 V6, the marginal Ecosport which is uninspiring, damn near every vehicle built in that maintenance and reliability hellhole which is modern European cars. Let's keep things in perspective. 

Good, love trucks, looking forward to seeing these on the road!

OK. Why did GM put in the 3.6 V6 again? Also, is that engine less reliable than the turbo 4cyl GM keeps putting in almost every FWD CUV these days?

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2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

OK. Why did GM put in the 3.6 V6 again? Also, is that engine less reliable than the turbo 4cyl GM keeps putting in almost every FWD CUV these days?

I can't figure out how a company that can build the small block chevrolet and the excellent 3800 V6 can build these motors. I just can't. 

But thena gain, had three otherwise very intelligent co workers spend 2 hours trying to figure out how to get a heat only thermostat to try to run A/C, so maybe I can. 

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20 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I can't figure out how a company that can build the small block chevrolet and the excellent 3800 V6 can build these motors. I just can't. 

 

Those were simple engines from a simpler time...today's engines are more complex w / lots of electronics..a lot more failure points.

Edited by Robert Hall
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2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Those were simple engines from a simpler time...today's engines are more complex w / lots of electronics..a lot more failure points.

false.

The 3.8 liter from Buick...the one used prior to the Buick Grand National, the used used IN the Buick Grand National and all other  subsequent variants are all part of the MODERN engine. All kinds of computer control metrics and sensors in the engine from the 1970s all the way to its end of life.  

Crossfire L83 V8, L98, LT5, LT1, LT4, LS1 and so forth...all had computer controlled metrics. 

I do not know how reliable the Crossfire was, but I do think the L98 was reliable.

Some people dreaded the LT1's optispark distributor system, but I do believe its because it was misunderstood and not because it was problematic.  The LT1 itself was said to be bulletproof.

The LS engines are bulletproof as the saying goes.

Therefore...I dont think your assumption here is correct about simpler times...

And If Im to understand this whole notion correctly...

Arent electric motors even simpler in design than the internal combustion engine?

Please educate me...

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

false.

The 3.8 liter from Buick...the one used prior to the Buick Grand National, the used used IN the Buick Grand National and all other  subsequent variants are all part of the MODERN engine. All kinds of computer control metrics and sensors in the engine from the 1970s all the way to its end of life.  

Crossfire L83 V8, L98, LT5, LT1, LT4, LS1 and so forth...all had computer controlled metrics. 

I do not know how reliable the Crossfire was, but I do think the L98 was reliable.

Some people dreaded the LT1's optispark distributor system, but I do believe its because it was misunderstood and not because it was problematic.  The LT1 itself was said to be bulletproof.

The LS engines are bulletproof as the saying goes.

Therefore...I dont think your assumption here is correct about simpler times...

 

Those were simple compared to what they are building today with the VVT, cylinder shut off, OHC V6s, etc.    And from a different GM than what it is today.   Anyway, I haven't heard about major issues w/ the 3.6..they seem to be putting it in a lot of vehicles, FWD and RWD..

Edited by Robert Hall
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Well...GM of today versus GM of the 1970s and 1980s and well into the 1990s was a GM that we would all like to forget about.

GM today is more on the ball with reliability and quality than those years.  Not arguing with you, just trying to set a logical focal point on where we should be bitchin' about. 

Ive heard the timing chain on that V6 was problematic. On the early versions. I heard that the 1st generation Lambdas has issues with their 3.6s with those folk that didnt do their regularly scheduled maintenance.  

I havent heard anything about the later 3.6s though. 

And Ill agree to your point about VV & cylinder shut off being more complicated than anything the L83s and LS1s and 3.8s had, but they did have many sensors and solenoids to go wrong nonetheless.   Regardless though,  none of those things were problematic. On any engine GM built from the 1970s-2020s.  At least none that Im aware of.   (optispark maybe?) 

Gaskets wearing off and causing lots of headaches to GM owners WAS a problem.  QUAD 4, Northstar, 3.4 DOHC, 3.4 OHV all had these problems.   

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I can't figure out how a company that can build the small block chevrolet and the excellent 3800 V6 can build these motors. I just can't. 

But thena gain, had three otherwise very intelligent co workers spend 2 hours trying to figure out how to get a heat only thermostat to try to run A/C, so maybe I can. 

Call it the STUPID THINKING THAT DOHC are better engines, higher HP, weak ass torque and far more electronics that screw up an engine that should just stay pushrod solid basics.

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Anyway, it's all a moot point now that GM is moving to EVs.   It will be interesting to see what GM's product mix and market share will be like in 2030.

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Hummer by GMC Reveal set for Oct 20th. Reservation will be accepted starting that day also. We see the NEW Infotainment screen and dedicated CRAB MODE option. clearly APPLE and ANDROID play are supported.

I believe this will be bigger seller for GM than the Cadillac will be.

Excited to see the Truck, I also hope they show off the SUV.

Tesla is going to be Late LATE LATE to the truck party as usual.

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Last Friday, Kenworth announced the start of their new EV truck line with two box trucks for inner city delivery with a Class 6 and Class 7 truck. K270E and K370E models plenty more pictures for those interested in the power train or battery pack on the company press release. These trucks are in production with the first ones set to be delivered by December.

image.png

The trucks come in the following options list:

  • 24 or 30 foot lengths.
  • 100 or 200 mile battery packs
  • 355 or 469 HP electric motors
  • Enough Torque to start on a 20% grade
  • Enough power to maintain 40 mph on a 6% grade fully loaded
  • Regenerative braking
  • DC fast charging

https://www.kenworth.com/news/news-releases/2020/september/electric-trucks-available/

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14 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Anyway, it's all a moot point now that GM is moving to EVs.   It will be interesting to see what GM's product mix and market share will be like in 2030.

If kia and Hyundai have not buried them entirely then in everything other than trucks. 

13 hours ago, David said:

Last Friday, Kenworth announced the start of their new EV truck line with two box trucks for inner city delivery with a Class 6 and Class 7 truck. K270E and K370E models plenty more pictures for those interested in the power train or battery pack on the company press release. These trucks are in production with the first ones set to be delivered by December.

image.png

The trucks come in the following options list:

  • 24 or 30 foot lengths.
  • 100 or 200 mile battery packs
  • 355 or 469 HP electric motors
  • Enough Torque to start on a 20% grade
  • Enough power to maintain 40 mph on a 6% grade fully loaded
  • Regenerative braking
  • DC fast charging

https://www.kenworth.com/news/news-releases/2020/september/electric-trucks-available/

Hybrids are also gaining widespread acceptance, the public mindset is changing. Once fleet users see how much they can save in fuel, the writing is on the wall for ICE. 

13 hours ago, David said:

Hummer by GMC Reveal set for Oct 20th. Reservation will be accepted starting that day also. We see the NEW Infotainment screen and dedicated CRAB MODE option. clearly APPLE and ANDROID play are supported.

I believe this will be bigger seller for GM than the Cadillac will be.

Excited to see the Truck, I also hope they show off the SUV.

Tesla is going to be Late LATE LATE to the truck party as usual.

If they can build something like an H3 SUT, I am so going to paythem a visit. 

14 hours ago, David said:

Call it the STUPID THINKING THAT DOHC are better engines, higher HP, weak ass torque and far more electronics that screw up an engine that should just stay pushrod solid basics.

Like I said, was not impressed with it in the Colorado. 

18 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Those were simple engines from a simpler time...today's engines are more complex w / lots of electronics..a lot more failure points.

Needlessly complex, EV can't get hre fast enough. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 9:30 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

Three pahse motors run forever....I ahve a 1944 Whitney 177 Table saw that ahs had several million board feet of lumber run through it, came out of a west virginia lumber dimensioning plant. Original motor runs like new. 76 years in. 

Lots of buildings I take care of have 3 phase motors from the 40's, 50's, and 60's that ahve been running continuously for decades. 

How many 1960 automobiles are elft on the road in daily use?

We actually just replaced our air conditioner and it was from the 50's...3 phase. 

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The inner truck lover in me is grooving to this...love it!

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2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Needlessly complex, EV can't get hre fast enough

Mechanically EVs are definitely more simple.  However, a different issue will be that they are heavily controlled by software, complicated software.  So there will be different issues.

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41 minutes ago, ykX said:

Mechanically EVs are definitely more simple.  However, a different issue will be that they are heavily controlled by software, complicated software.  So there will be different issues.

Very true, This is where QA testing will have to be very solid as testing software and insuring it is not hacked as GM has stated about their new Electrical Nervous system that allows over air updates on the ICE auto's as well as EVs. Need a secure, solid built software nervous system.

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7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Only a matter of time before hacking & viruses are a defacto worry of EVs / any car with over the air updating.

no different than when people would prank some ones ice auto with sugar in the tank or other things that would bring an ICE to a halt, different hacking / viruses. Everything has a chance to be attacked.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Only a matter of time before hacking & viruses are a defacto worry of EVs / any car with over the air updating.

Yes, but modern folks can deal with that. Try finding anyone that udnerstands a carburetor...

1 hour ago, David said:

no different than when people would prank some ones ice auto with sugar in the tank or other things that would bring an ICE to a halt, different hacking / viruses. Everything has a chance to be attacked.

That's why I carry full coverage insurance on everything I own. 

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27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Here! I understand carburetors.

 

Everything analog has become a black art though when it shouldn't be. I am learning how to effectively sharpen chain saw chains...I can get a dozen or so good sharpenings until I mess up the blade geometry and have to take them back to the hardware store to be re sharpened. I even have the fancy tool Stihl sells. 

Guy who sharpens chains is like 90 years old...does an excellent job...but they cannot find anyone else to sharpen them well. 

The simplest tasks are starting to elude us as a society, sadly. 

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25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Here! I understand carburetors.

 

You are like me and few others here part of the 1% crowd that understands those things.

Ask a Millennial about needle and seats in a carb, Glazed look. 

Ask about a float bowl, again glazed look.

Get into the details of the float or jets and glazed comatose look. Talk about the Throttle blade/s or accelerator pump and you will get some crazy response if they are fast enough to even think of where a blade or pump might be on an auto.

Ask them about how they would adjust a choke and you might just get something sexual and perverse. 

Yea, I do not think many beyond us 1% crowd would understand a carb.

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Just now, David said:

You are like me and few others here part of the 1% crowd that understands those things.

Ask a Millennial about needle and seats in a carb, Glazed look. 

Ask about a float bowl, again glazed look.

Get into the details of the float or jets and glazed comatose look. Talk about the Throttle blade/s or accelerator pump and you will get some crazy response if they are fast enough to even think of where a blade or pump might be on an auto.

Ask them about how they would adjust a choke and you might just get something sexual and perverse. 

Yea, I do not think many beyond us 1% crowd would understand a carb.

The bowl most millinelas would understand is called a bong, not a bowl...let's get our terminology right. 

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Meanwhile, in the ICE world....this looks good. Midsized trucks to me are the one real bright spot in the current barren automotive atmosphere. 

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9 minutes ago, David said:

You are like me and few others here part of the 1% crowd that understands those things.

Ask a Millennial about needle and seats in a carb, Glazed look. 

Ask about a float bowl, again glazed look.

Get into the details of the float or jets and glazed comatose look. Talk about the Throttle blade/s or accelerator pump and you will get some crazy response if they are fast enough to even think of where a blade or pump might be on an auto.

Ask them about how they would adjust a choke and you might just get something sexual and perverse. 

Yea, I do not think many beyond us 1% crowd would understand a carb.

Considering I haven't driven a car with a carb regularly in over 25 years, I just have no need or interest in undertanding how carbs work.   

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5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Considering I haven't driven a car with a carb regularly in over 25 years, I just have no need or interest in undertanding how carbs work.   

Except for the vintage ones you keep at the farm...

 

Love this with the Raptor, want to see the Rivian put to the same test. Seriously. I think with a lower center of gravity and all that torque, it would put down a better time. 

 

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Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

Except for the vintage ones you keep at the farm... 

 

Unfortunately, as long as my idiot brother is alive, I can't get to them..

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Of course, for our ICE fans...

 

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Unfortunately, as long as my idiot brother is alive, I can't get to them..

That is sad...

 

Would love to build a clone of the GMC with a clapped out S-10 and an eelctric drivetrain....!

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21 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

false.

The 3.8 liter from Buick...the one used prior to the Buick Grand National, the used used IN the Buick Grand National and all other  subsequent variants are all part of the MODERN engine. All kinds of computer control metrics and sensors in the engine from the 1970s all the way to its end of life.  

Crossfire L83 V8, L98, LT5, LT1, LT4, LS1 and so forth...all had computer controlled metrics. 

I do not know how reliable the Crossfire was, but I do think the L98 was reliable.

Some people dreaded the LT1's optispark distributor system, but I do believe its because it was misunderstood and not because it was problematic.  The LT1 itself was said to be bulletproof.

The LS engines are bulletproof as the saying goes.

Therefore...I dont think your assumption here is correct about simpler times...

And If Im to understand this whole notion correctly...

Arent electric motors even simpler in design than the internal combustion engine?

Please educate me...

 

 

I'm not sure what you're saying was false... but here's what I know about these engines.   The 3800 basic design goes way back '78 (though it had relatives from before then), but it technically did not become what we know of as the 3800 until 1988.  Various sensors had been added and changed over the years to make it more efficient. The series 1 and series II made other minor changes to the block, but it was largely the same design.  It was a cast-iron block rather than the aluminum 3.6 liter. 

The Optispark distributor system was excellent in concept, but had a design flaw that allowed moisture to build up inside.  Later versions and aftermarket replacements included drain hole to allow moisture to escape.  People bitch and moan about Optispark because at the time they were used to the distributor sitting at the top of the engine and being easy to access.  Optispark removed the necessity to access it as frequently as an old-style distributor, but it was moved under the water pump meaning that changing the distributor meant draining the radiator (!!) and doing a water pump gasket.  It was just a convenience thing for the old-school guys.  But I bet every single one of those guys would take Optispark over a timing belt driven Honda which was common at the time.  A timing belt job on them ALSO included doing a water pump swap.

@A Horse With No Name - The GM 3.6 issue are largely around the timing chain and service intervals. GM tried to extend oil change intervals on the earlier ones, but old oil would cause the motors to stretch out the timing chains to the point that the VVT couldn't compensate. Multiple manufacturers (Ford and Honda that I know of) have dealt with similar problems, so it's not a situation unique to GM. GM addressed it by strengthening the chain and shortening the service interval. Other than that, the 3.6 has been fairly reliable by my knowledge. 

Electric motors have fewer moving parts if that's what you mean by simpler design, however the electronics in them are more sophisticated and complex. There's also (usually) no multi-gear transmission to worry about. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Only a matter of time before hacking & viruses are a defacto worry of EVs / any car with over the air updating.

I've actually been to seminars on this subject.  Car manufacturer are already aware and working on it.  More and more manufacturers are going to go with hardened versions of mobile device software to run their cars.  Let Google or Apple or Blackberry sort out the operating system level stuff and the manufacturer will handle the car running parts. 

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Here! I understand carburetors.

 

Unfortunately, my carb is electronic and the machines to calibrate it are unobtainium..,... so it has to be hacked through manual adjustment. 

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6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

@A Horse With No Name - The GM 3.6 issue are largely around the timing chain and service intervals. GM tried to extend oil change intervals on the earlier ones, but old oil would cause the motors to stretch out the timing chains to the point that the VVT couldn't compensate. Multiple manufacturers (Ford and Honda that I know of) have dealt with similar problems, so it's not a situation unique to GM. GM addressed it by strengthening the chain and shortening the service interval. Other than that, the 3.6 has been fairly reliable by my knowledge. 

 

I would like to know more about this and the 3.4 Liter series of motors in early 2000's GM cars. 

Have heard of lots of trouble with the 3600....this clears things up a bit. 

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Unfortunately, my carb is electronic and the machines to calibrate it are unobtainium..,... so it has to be hacked through manual adjustment. 

My fathers oldmobile was the same way. 

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28 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I would like to know more about this and the 3.4 Liter series of motors in early 2000's GM cars. 

Have heard of lots of trouble with the 3600....this clears things up a bit. 

Which 3.4 liter? The 3.4 DOHC, or the 3400?

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47 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Which 3.4 liter? The 3.4 DOHC, or the 3400?

My son just bought a 2004 Impala on the west coast with a 3.4, whichever one would have come in that car, presume plain 3400. New 60,000 mile high end radials, synthetic oil changes every 5000 miles since new, very careful and meticulous service records, and he paid a little over a grand for his first car. It's a nice clean ride. 200,000 on the odometer though. 

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2 hours ago, David said:

I do not think many beyond us 1% crowd would understand a carb.

Being I JUST heard this morning on a financial show that global EV market share is 2.6%, I guarantee you 'carb people' are far more numerous than "1%". Not carb owners, but people who understand / work with carbs.

 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Unfortunately, my carb is electronic and the machines to calibrate it are unobtainium..,... so it has to be hacked through manual adjustment. 

Pull the plug on the electronic carb - no one is going to worry/check if your '81 is factory spec or not.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I've actually been to seminars on this subject.  Car manufacturer are already aware and working on it.

I realize they're aware of / working on it; so are every computerized interface/system's companies. It hasn't eliminated the problems anywhere, entirely, yet.

Edited by balthazar

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33 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

My son just bought a 2004 Impala on the west coast with a 3.4, whichever one would have come in that car, presume plain 3400. New 60,000 mile high end radials, synthetic oil changes every 5000 miles since new, very careful and meticulous service records, and he paid a little over a grand for his first car. It's a nice clean ride. 200,000 on the odometer though. 

Change the Dexcool yesterday and every 5 years. Get the pink/orange stuff, not the piss yellow “It works in everything!!” Prestone.

Unless you have proof that the intake manifold gasket has been done recently, budget for the gasket replacement. 
 

Other than that, it’s an unremarkable engine and will probably outlast the car if he keeps up on oil changes.

18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Pull the plug on the electronic carb - no one is going to worry/check if your '81 is factory spec or not.

Not that simple unfortunately.  The prior owner tried that and it ran like garbage and it cost me a lot of time/money to put it back to factory.  These cars are designed to run the way they were designed to run and don't take well to people fiddling with the factory settings.  

The only thing I've looked into is a drop in EFI replacement for the E-Quadrajet. It's like $1200 just for the parts and comes with a completely new computer controller.

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@balthazar so looking here we have 233,390 ASE repair places in the US.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/436416/number-of-auto-repair-and-maintenance-shops-in-us/

At the end of 2019 the number of registered mechanics in the US was 756,600

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/automotive-service-technicians-and-mechanics.htm#TB_inline?height=325&width=325&inlineId=qf-number-jobs

Population of the US is 328,239,523

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/popest-nation.html#:~:text=The nation’s population was 328%2C239%2C523 in 2019%2C growing,continuation of a multiyear slowdown since that period.

This would mean we have .23% of the US population that understands Carburetors.

Welcome to the .25% club.

Honestly, I do think only 1% or less really understand Carburators.

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I'd also wager "carb people" are over 1% as all of the lawn care people tend to know a lot about carbs as that's what most all small engines are. 

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Have to say that the 2021 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid Plug-in is an attractive CUV.

  • Uses CVVD Tech Motor
  • Digital Key / Smartphone app from the Sonata is used here too
  • Remote Self Parking
  • Apple and Android enabled

Full Spec's, pricing, gas mileage and more coming later this year as it goes on sale.

Snag_1a9ebf70.png

image.png

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129605_2022-hyundai-tucson-hybrid-plug-in-photos-mpg-specs-vs-rav4-cr-v

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1 hour ago, David said:

At the end of 2019 the number of registered mechanics in the US was 756,600

I'm not a registered mechanic.

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4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'm not a registered mechanic.

True and neither am I  and yet, so many of the registered mechanics are only in select areas like Transmissions or Differentials. I still think we are only around 1% at best of people knowing about carburetors.

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1 hour ago, David said:

 

This would mean we have .23% of the US population that understands Carburetors.

Welcome to the .25% club.

Honestly, I do think only 1% or less really understand Carburators.

Even fewer can spell it correctly.  That is one of the words I do misspell.   I wonder how many auto mechanics can work on older pre-OBD-II vehicles.  

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15 hours ago, David said:

Have to say that the 2021 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid Plug-in is an attractive CUV.

  • Uses CVVD Tech Motor
  • Digital Key / Smartphone app from the Sonata is used here too
  • Remote Self Parking
  • Apple and Android enabled

Full Spec's, pricing, gas mileage and more coming later this year as it goes on sale.

Snag_1a9ebf70.png

image.png

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129605_2022-hyundai-tucson-hybrid-plug-in-photos-mpg-specs-vs-rav4-cr-v

It is. My other car is a 2004 aveo that I inherited from a relative withy very low miles. Deciding on what to replace it with in a few years. Leaning hard into the Bronco/Wrangler idea, but the number of appealing midsizers like this could cause me to reconsider this. Love the interior. 

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